UK on track to become one of Europe's worst hit in COVID-19 pandemic

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I think Boris will be a bit busy for a while.  His bird has just given birth to a boy!  So that will be child number 6? or 7?  As Boris will never confirm how many kids he actually has it is hard to say.

Sky News seem to have settled on six (known)

[puipuitom]

7 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I think Boris will be a bit busy for a while.  His bird has just given birth to a boy!  So that will be child number 6? or 7?  As Boris will never confirm how many kids he actually has it is hard to say.

First: the British voted overwhelmingly for him ( according to the British voting system)

2) When I elect somebody for a public function, I am not so much interested in her/his private life, unless it could be a proof for not being honoust enough for that public job. The British accepted this.

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

First: the British voted overwhelmingly for him ( according to the British voting system)

2) When I elect somebody for a public function, I am not so much interested in her/his private life, unless it could be a proof for not being honoust enough for that public job. The British accepted this.

It is rare to see the term "honesty" and "Boris Johnson" in the same sentence.  That is certainly fair to say.  As someone who didn't vote for him and has in fact been one of his biggest critics, I still think that the birth of a child worth noting.

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It was not a slow reaction, it was a deliberate policy to allow the virus to spread in the UK.

A deliberate policy to allow the virus to spread? That's rubbish, and you have no evidence to back it up. Please don't regurgitate that out of context comment from Patrick Vallance, a comment that was quickly contradicted by the government. 

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

A deliberate policy to allow the virus to spread? That's rubbish, and you have no evidence to back it up. Please don't regurgitate that out of context comment from Patrick Vallance, a comment that was quickly contradicted by the government. 

Well apart that is from the factual evidence of the policy decisions the Government took, all of which support the veracity of the statement made by the Government’s Chief Scientific Advisor, Sir Patrick John Thompson Vallance FRS FMedSciFRCP and all of which lend the lie to the Government’s rebuttal of the cat he let out of the bag.

 

By example:

 

“The Chinese government shut down the city of Wuhan on 23 January. The World Health Organisation declared a global health emergency on January 30. Italy announced a total lockdown on 9 March, and France on 17 March. But Britain let 250,000 racegoers attend the Cheltenham festival, and 54,000 football fans watch Liverpool play Atletico Madrid, before following suit on 23 March.”

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/boris-johnson-lockdown-government-coronavirus-response

 

Add the delay in closing schools, the yet still open Immigration, the delay initiating  testing, the under reporting of deaths. 

 

The Government did nothing to stem the spread of this disease until Imperial College London went public with their report ‘Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID-19 mortality and healthcare demand’.

 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well apart that is from the factual evidence of the policy decisions the Government took, all of which support the veracity of the statement made by the Government’s Chief Scientific Advisor, Sir Patrick John Thompson Vallance FRS FMedSciFRCP and all of which lend the lie to the Government’s rebuttal of the cat he let out of the bag.

 

By example:

 

“The Chinese government shut down the city of Wuhan on 23 January. The World Health Organisation declared a global health emergency on January 30. Italy announced a total lockdown on 9 March, and France on 17 March. But Britain let 250,000 racegoers attend the Cheltenham festival, and 54,000 football fans watch Liverpool play Atletico Madrid, before following suit on 23 March.”

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/boris-johnson-lockdown-government-coronavirus-response

 

Add the delay in closing schools, the yet still open Immigration, the delay initiating  testing, the under reporting of deaths. 

 

The Government did nothing to stem the spread of this disease until Imperial College London went public with their report ‘Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID-19 mortality and healthcare demand’.

 

 

 

The PM introduced social distancing measures on 16th March. On March 17th the Treasury announced an unprecedented £330bn package of measures to ease the impact of the social distancing measures. The UK government closed schools, nurseries and colleges on 20th March, and also ordered pubs and restaurants to close. That doesn't strike me as a government wanting the virus to spread. To me this was a government monitoring an ever changing and unprecedented situation, and making huge decisions based on information received from experts. 

Yes we were a few days behind France with the full lock down, but it was important to get the timing right. 

 

The UK is now entering it's 6th week of lockdown, and vast numbers of the public and media are calling for lockdown measures to be eased. You start the lockdown too early and this 'lockdown fatigue' would also kick in too early. The timing has ensured we continue to have NHS capacity, and that was the main goal. 

 

[Sujo]

To me that looks like the herd mentality wasnt working so they went to plan B.

[stevenl]

31 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The PM introduced social distancing measures on 16th March. On March 17th the Treasury announced an unprecedented £330bn package of measures to ease the impact of the social distancing measures. The UK government closed schools, nurseries and colleges on 20th March, and also ordered pubs and restaurants to close. That doesn't strike me as a government wanting the virus to spread. To me this was a government monitoring an ever changing and unprecedented situation, and making huge decisions based on information received from experts. 

Yes we were a few days behind France with the full lock down, but it was important to get the timing right. 

 

The UK is now entering it's 6th week of lockdown, and vast numbers of the public and media are calling for lockdown measures to be eased. You start the lockdown too early and this 'lockdown fatigue' would also kick in too early. The timing has ensured we continue to have NHS capacity, and that was the main goal. 

 

Social distancing measures introduced on 16 march, but football, horse racing allowed to continue? For how long after 26 march?

[dunroaming]

Hindsight, naivety, cynicism, false news and reporting, social media fantasy posts, blame games and ducking responsibility.

 

All to be found in the numerous posts on this corona virus.  Eventually the real facts will be made clearer but you can be sure that everything will be down to the individuals interpretation.  People rarely want to hear the pure unadulterated version of the truth, they much prefer something that "proves them right, all along".  Therefore people will continue to search the internet for opinions that back up their versions of the truth.

 

It's the world we live in now, where truth is less important than opinion.

[3NUMBAS]

ethnics in cramped housing conditions are likely to be at risk pushing up the figures .just saying..

the dead tend to be more of ethnic races unfortunatly ,,same as in the US .over weight with health issues

[3NUMBAS]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-germanys-rate-covid-19-infections-grows-lockdown-200700262.html

 

germany goes back into lockdown as rates are up again

[dunroaming]

12 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-germanys-rate-covid-19-infections-grows-lockdown-200700262.html

 

germany goes back into lockdown as rates are up again

That is the risk with an early easing of a lockdown.  Could be really costly for businesses who re-employ and then have to lay off again.  Also businesses who restock only to have to swallow the costs of that.  Can't blame the British government for being cautious. 

[stevenl]

28 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-germanys-rate-covid-19-infections-grows-lockdown-200700262.html

 

germany goes back into lockdown as rates are up again

The article states there is a risk of going back in lockdown, your conclusion is either premature or incorrect.

[OneeyedJohn]

Unless you live in China or North Korea then I think it is only so long we can put up with these restrictions.

There has to be a breaking point , financially , emotionally and in personal relationships.

[darksidedog]

A number of off topic bickering and flaming posts along with replies have been removed.

Stick to the topic and stop getting personal. Those involved have all been around long enough to know the rules by now.

[yogi100]

13 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

The PM introduced social distancing measures on 16th March. On March 17th the Treasury announced an unprecedented £330bn package of measures to ease the impact of the social distancing measures. The UK government closed schools, nurseries and colleges on 20th March, and also ordered pubs and restaurants to close. That doesn't strike me as a government wanting the virus to spread. To me this was a government monitoring an ever changing and unprecedented situation, and making huge decisions based on information received from experts. 

Yes we were a few days behind France with the full lock down, but it was important to get the timing right. 

 

The UK is now entering it's 6th week of lockdown, and vast numbers of the public and media are calling for lockdown measures to be eased. You start the lockdown too early and this 'lockdown fatigue' would also kick in too early. The timing has ensured we continue to have NHS capacity, and that was the main goal. 

 

It's been on the LBC News yesterday that 10,000 people are still being allowed to enter the UK each day without being tested nor subjected to quarantine regulations. 

 

It's not known if they are infected nor who they are now going to associate with in Britain!

 

TB had been eradicated from the UK after WW2. It soon reappeared when politicians allowed wholesale immigration. 

 

The 10,000 daily arrivals are mostly from the sub continent. Compare such hare brained measures with supposedly 'backward' countries like Thailand.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

It's been on the LBC News yesterday that 10,000 people are still being allowed to enter the UK each day without being tested nor subjected to quarantine regulations. 

 

It's not known if they are infected nor who they are now going to associate with in Britain!

 

TB had been eradicated from the UK after WW2. It soon reappeared when politicians allowed wholesale immigration. 

 

The 10,000 daily arrivals are mostly from the sub continent. Compare such hare brained measures with supposedly 'backward' countries like Thailand.

Quarantine regulation is in effect.

[Logosone]

In "Human, All too Human", Friedrich Nietzsche wrote an immortal aphorism:

 

"Many are persistent in relation to the path they have chosen. Few in relation to the destination".

 

In other words, very little energy is applied to finding the correct way, but a lot in defending incorrect ways once they are embarked on.

 

The UK is not following herd immunity. It is now following a social distancing policy, which it belatedly supplemented with testing when already the number of deaths was very large. Seventy percent more deaths than in Germany, which tested from the first day.

 

It is mistifying why anyone would defend social distancing, a policy that has clearly not worked in the UK and blame the UK's failure on following herd immunity, when it is very well known that the UK now adopts a social distancing policy.

 

Unless one reads Nietzsche of course, and is aware of the all too human weaknesses, and you understand why people defend social distancing so, even when by all accounts it has failed miserably in the UK.

 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, Logosone said:

In "Human, All too Human", Friedrich Nietzsche wrote an immortal aphorism:

 

"Many are persistent in relation to the path they have chosen. Few in relation to the destination".

 

In other words, very little energy is applied to finding the correct way, but a lot in defending incorrect ways once they are embarked on.

 

The UK is not following herd immunity. It is now following a social distancing policy, which it belatedly supplemented with testing when already the number of deaths was very large. Seventy percent more deaths than in Germany, which tested from the first day.

 

It is mistifying why anyone would defend social distancing, a policy that has clearly not worked in the UK and blame the UK's failure on following herd immunity, when it is very well known that the UK now adopts a social distancing policy.

 

Unless one reads Nietzsche of course, and is aware of the all too human weaknesses, and you understand why people defend social distancing so, even when by all accounts it has failed miserably in the UK.

 

 

 

 

Like your Nietzsche quote, but don't think your conclusion social distancing has failed is justified. It was implemented too late, agree, but very likely, imo, has prevented quite a few more infections.

[yogi100]

23 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Quarantine regulation is in effect.

Since when?

 

The recently arrived Eastern European fruit pickers weren't even tested let alone quarantined!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by yogi100

[Logosone]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Like your Nietzsche quote, but don't think your conclusion social distancing has failed is justified. It was implemented too late, agree, but very likely, imo, has prevented quite a few more infections.

 

Thanks, it is one of many immortal aphorisms from this true genius.

 

Most of the deaths in the UK actually have come after social distancing was already in place.

 

You are of course correct, strictly speaking, had social distancing been put in place at the VERY beginning it could have stopped everything. But it wasn't, and it hasn't. 

 

Once the virus has spread social distancing achieves very little, as we saw in the UK. Total failure. The UK is following a social distancing policy and it has failed miserably. It is not following a herd immunity policy, it is following a social distancing policy.

[stevenl]

13 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Since when?

 

The recently arrived Eastern European fruit pickers weren't even tested let alone quarantined!

 

 

 

 

See post #7 from someone who supports your position.

[yogi100]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

See post #7 from someone who supports your position.

"Checks implented only this week....15,000 daily at Heathrow alone"

 

What does this mean? It's rather vague!

 

People are arriving at Britains airports daily and reporting that no checks are being made. The claims are back by the MSM.

 

We may not trust the MSM but some of us might pay more heed to Joe Bloggs who has just got off a plane at LHR.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

"Checks implented only this week....15,000 daily at Heathrow alone"

 

What does this mean? It's rather vague!

 

People are arriving at Britains airports daily and reporting that no checks are being made. The claims are back by the MSM.

 

We may not trust the MSM but some of us might pay more heed to Joe Bloggs who has just got off a plane at LHR.

Correct is 10,000 for all entry points, but no, it is not rather vague.

 

I don't know who you mean with 'we' btw.

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Since when?

 

The recently arrived Eastern European fruit pickers weren't even tested let alone quarantined!

 

 

 

 

Who do you blame for this?

[yogi100]

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

Correct is 10,000 for all entry points, but no, it is not rather vague.

 

I don't know who you mean with 'we' btw.

'We' in this case is a term that refers to the man in the street, the average citizen, Joe Bloggs and the British public in general.

 

Most folk would consider it pretty obvious who is meant by 'we' in such a context.

[yogi100]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Who do you blame for this?

Politically correct politicians and their chums in businesses that profit from cheap labour.

 

Were 'we' to object to such irresponsible and careless behaviour 'we' would be accused by folk such as yourself of being xenophobes, racists and bigots etc.

In all likelihood regardless of the fact that there is currently a world wide health crisis.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

'We' in this case is a term that refers to the man in the street, the average citizen, Joe Bloggs and the British public in general.

 

Most folk would consider it pretty obvious who is meant by 'we' in such a context.

I presumed you were talking about we, conspiracy theorists. Looking at your claim regarding MSM I was correct, but needed it confirmed.

 

Thanks.

[Sujo]

10 hours ago, Logosone said:

In "Human, All too Human", Friedrich Nietzsche wrote an immortal aphorism:

 

"Many are persistent in relation to the path they have chosen. Few in relation to the destination".

 

In other words, very little energy is applied to finding the correct way, but a lot in defending incorrect ways once they are embarked on.

 

The UK is not following herd immunity. It is now following a social distancing policy, which it belatedly supplemented with testing when already the number of deaths was very large. Seventy percent more deaths than in Germany, which tested from the first day.

 

It is mistifying why anyone would defend social distancing, a policy that has clearly not worked in the UK and blame the UK's failure on following herd immunity, when it is very well known that the UK now adopts a social distancing policy.

 

Unless one reads Nietzsche of course, and is aware of the all too human weaknesses, and you understand why people defend social distancing so, even when by all accounts it has failed miserably in the UK.

 

 

 

 

Social distancing has worked in vietnam, australia, new zealand. All of which now have the virus under control.

 

How is US And UK going with their late arrival. Social distancing have proved to be the most effective.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Sujo

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Social distancing has worked in vietnam, australia, new zealand. All of which now have the virus under control.

 

How is US And UK going with their late arrival. Social distancing have proved to be the most effective.

 

No, it's not the social distancing that has worked, if you examine the Australian response you can see clearly it was testing and isolating the infected that worked there:

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

Edited April 30, 2020 by Logosone