Trump confident coronavirus may have originated in Chinese lab

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, Selatan said:

More mystery:

 

Coronavirus: ‘strange pneumonia’ seen in Lombardy in November, leading Italian doctor says

I thought it was odd how Italy was affected so badly when this started.

 

 

[whaleboneman]

14 hours ago, Kerryd said:

And for all those quoting about how scientists claim the virus could not have been "created" in a lab, think about this.

It did not have to be "created" in a lab in order for it to have "escaped" from a lab. Get it ? 

It is a fact that there are actually 3 labs in Wuhan studying bat coronaviruses. 1 lab is situated a mere 300 meters from the wet market where it had been claimed (originally) that the virus had originated.

It is a fact that there have been numerous articles concerning the lax safety protocols and procedures at those labs, going back at least to 2018. As well, it is fact that there have been "accidental" releases of deadly viruses from other Chinese labs (including an accidental release of the SARs virus). One lab apparently has had 2 such "accidents" in the past few years.
One article a couple months ago noted how a scientist at one of the Wuhan labs apparently had some (infected) bats "spit" and urinate on him, so he went home and "self isolated" for 14 days. 
No mention of actually being tested to see if he was infected. He went home, didn't get sick (supposedly) and then went back to a normal routine.

How many people could go from work to home, lock the door and not have any (close) contact with anyone else for 14 straight days ? Without stopping off at the market, beer store and one or two other places first. Or having any visitors or other contact with anyone.
And why would you do that at all - unless you suspected that the virus could in fact be transmitted from bats to humans. 

And how many other scientists at those labs could have had similar experiences (of contacting urine or saliva from infected bats) and decided they didn't need to "self isolate" ? 

Keep this in mind because I know some of you think that all those scientists wear those full HazMat suits like you see in the movies.
They don't.
In fact, coronaviruses are not actually considered that dangerous because they weren't expected to be able to infect humans (not "naturally" at least) so people working with them weren't require to wear the full, self contained bio-hazard suits like you see in the movies.

Another fact is that at least one of those labs in Wuhan was actually studying how bat coronaviruses could be transmitted from bats to humans. 

Gee, I wonder how would one study that ?

Also remember what scientists actually do. They ask "Why". They ask "What if". They ask "How".

And then they do experiments to try and find the answers to those questions.

Like, "If I take an existing strain of bat coronavirus and expose it to a strain of pangolin coronavirus, what would the result be ?". Or maybe "I wonder if I modified this particular aspect of this bat coronavirus, would that make it act differently ?"
"Maybe I can inject a bat coronavirus into a pangolin host that also has a coronavirus and see how the two interact".

Or darn, that pangolin peed on me ! And now it's lunch time. 
No worries comrade, I'll just pop over to the market for some soup and clean up when I get back !

Yeah, because that **** never happens right ? 

Except that it does. And has.

A lot of facts without any evidence. Maybe you could cite something to prove any of your facts.

[Pique Dard]

trump, the scientist who didn't know he was

[candide]

31 minutes ago, candide said:

Interesting. The Institut Pasteur is quite reputed and their findings are quite disturbing.

Actually the article doesn't speculate about the origin of the strain, jut that it is different from the one imported from Hubei province.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340919286_Introductions_and_early_spread_of_SARS-CoV-2_in_France

[Selatan]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Actually the article doesn't speculate about the origin of the strain, jut that it is different from the one imported from Hubei province.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340919286_Introductions_and_early_spread_of_SARS-CoV-2_in_France

Why would the French be infected by an earlier strain than the Wuhan one? 

Antibody testing in New York showed that 1 in 5 have been infected by Covid-19, which indicates that many have been infected quite some time back, and not recently. 

Wuhan may very likely be the place where this new virus was first detected, not the origin. Researchers probably have to dig much deeper around the world. The origin may never be known:

Coronavirus may have infected humans for DECADES before mutating into the killer disease that's claimed more than 36,000 lives worldwide, study suggests

Edited May 1, 2020 by Selatan

[Selatan]

 

2 hours ago, bendejo said:

I thought it was odd how Italy was affected so badly when this started.

 

 

In Sarawak, Malaysia, there is a small cluster of infection dubbed the Italy cluster. The death rate of this cluster is very high. The death rate of other clusters (infection from China and South Korea) were relatively low.

Heartbreak for ‘Italy cluster’ family

[balo]

The rest of the world is fake news. We should all listen to the oracle.   

[The Barmbeker]

As per usual, Trump does not trust scientists NOR his own intelligence agencies. on anything they say!

 

[Number 6]

15 hours ago, stevenl said:

 

Apparently intelligence officials and disease researchers have a good idea, https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/05/01/experts-shoot-down-trumps-claim-that-the-us-has-reason-to-believe-the-coronavirus-originated-in-a-wuhan-lab/24163437/

AOL lol

 

So I guess you think all this started from a few live or dead bats in a market that just happened to be near two bioweapons and research labs.

 

Alrighty then

 

[KhaoNiaw]

3 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

So I guess you think all this started from a few live or dead bats in a market that just happened to be near two bioweapons and research labs.

I don't think it started in Wuhan.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

AOL lol

 

So I guess you think all this started from a few live or dead bats in a market that just happened to be near two bioweapons and research labs.

 

Alrighty then

 

 

7 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

I don't think it started in Wuhan.

Maybe react to the information given, not to the source. I would value the opinion of the intelligence community and scientists over yours.

[KhaoNiaw]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

Maybe react to the information given, not to the source. I would value the opinion of the intelligence community and scientists over yours.

I agree. I should say I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't start in Wuhan because there seem to be reports indicating the possibility that it originated elsewhere in China before the spread in Wuhan.

Edited May 2, 2020 by KhaoNiaw

[Number 6]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

 

Maybe react to the information given, not to the source. I would value the opinion of the intelligence community and scientists over yours.

Then maybe we can get half the forum to stop complaining about Fox.

 

I know when I'm looking for hard news I always turn to AOL and Facebook. Thanks

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Then maybe we can get half the forum to stop complaining about Fox.

 

I know when I'm looking for hard news I always turn to AOL and Facebook. Thanks

If experts react on Facebook yes, it is reliable. The information is important, and if confirmed it is from the experts I don't care about the source.

 

I was addressing you, not 'half the forum'. 

[BigJ]

I always like the "intelligence community" concurs summaries. As if every single person in every agency agrees with a single sentiment. Perhaps they all have separate spies on the case and are sent an online poll or email "We are doing a poll and we want to know if the CIA thinks the Wuhan Virus came from a wet market or the lab, please check with your spies in China and answer by 3 pm today as I want to make a statement to the press on behalf of the intelligence community. We have already received answers from the FBI and NSA and the other 12 agencies". Is the " Intelligence community" (whatever that means) of any country, not just the USA, going to put out a meaningful, truthful statement on any subject? 

[Selatan]

Trump and Pompeo better shut up or else they would embarrass themselves further with their lies:

France’s first Covid-19 case 'dates back to December', flu retest shows

 

Looks like China is unlikely to be the origin of the virus.

 

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Selatan said:

Trump and Pompeo better shut up or else they would embarrass themselves further with their lies:

France’s first Covid-19 case 'dates back to December', flu retest shows

 

Looks like China is unlikely to be the origin of the virus.

 

 

China’s First Covid-19 case was detected on 17th November.

 

 

 

[Crazy Alex]

On 5/2/2020 at 12:22 AM, The Barmbeker said:

As per usual, Trump does not trust scientists NOR his own intelligence agencies. on anything they say!

 

And you DO trust US intelligence agencies?

[metisdead]

An incoherent post using SMS language has been removed.   This is not an SMS site. 

 

A post with a conspiracy theory has been reported and removed. 

[johnnybangkok]

8 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

And you DO trust US intelligence agencies?

Why is it that Trump fans don't trust anyone any more? You don't trust your own intelligence services, the FBI, The Department of Justice, The State Department, The Environmental Protection Agency, the WHO, Congress etc, etc, etc.

It's almost as if anyone who went against Trump is now not to be trusted. I wonder where that came from?

 

[frenetic]

9 hours ago, Selatan said:

Trump and Pompeo better shut up or else they would embarrass themselves further with their lies:

France’s first Covid-19 case 'dates back to December', flu retest shows

 

Looks like China is unlikely to be the origin of the virus.

 

First Covid-19 case happened in November, China government records show - report

 This article is more than 1 month old

Earliest case detected on 17 November, weeks before authorities acknowledged new virus, says Chinese media

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/first-covid-19-case-happened-in-november-china-government-records-show-report

Given that it was widespread in China before anywhere else, it is virtually impossible from an epidemiological standpoint that it began elsewhere.

[Susco]

10 minutes ago, frenetic said:

First Covid-19 case happened in November, China government records show - report

 This article is more than 1 month old

Earliest case detected on 17 November, weeks before authorities acknowledged new virus, says Chinese media

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/first-covid-19-case-happened-in-november-china-government-records-show-report

Given that it was widespread in China before anywhere else, it is virtually impossible from an epidemiological standpoint that it began elsewhere.

 

I have read article that the first infection were 2 US soldiers on military exercise in November, and staying in a hotel near the Wuhan market.

 

I don't know if that claim was credible or not.

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/13/asia-pacific/science-health-asia-pacific/china-us-military-brought-coronavirus/#.XrDzms2mwkI

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/us-military-may-have-brought-coronavirus-to-wuhan-says-china-in-war-of-words-with-us

[frenetic]

1 hour ago, Susco said:

 

I have read article that the first infection were 2 US soldiers on military exercise in November, and staying in a hotel near the Wuhan market.

 

I don't know if that claim was credible or not.

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/13/asia-pacific/science-health-asia-pacific/china-us-military-brought-coronavirus/#.XrDzms2mwkI

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/us-military-may-have-brought-coronavirus-to-wuhan-says-china-in-war-of-words-with-us

It's obviously false since there's not evidence of an outbreak previous to or concurrent with the Wuhan situation

[Susco]

7 minutes ago, frenetic said:

It's obviously false since there's not evidence of an outbreak previous to or concurrent with the Wuhan situation

 

Maybe you should try to read the articles, since this IS Wuhan.

 

You think that every credible newspaper in the world, as I can provide you as many links as you can digest, will publish the same false news?

[candide]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Why is it that Trump fans don't trust anyone any more? You don't trust your own intelligence services, the FBI, The Department of Justice, The State Department, The Environmental Protection Agency, the WHO, Congress etc, etc, etc.

It's almost as if anyone who went against Trump is now not to be trusted. I wonder where that came from?

 

Trump's proven record for telling the truth? ????????????

[candide]

12 hours ago, Selatan said:

Trump and Pompeo better shut up or else they would embarrass themselves further with their lies:

France’s first Covid-19 case 'dates back to December', flu retest shows

 

Looks like China is unlikely to be the origin of the virus.

 

There is also a study related to Institut Pasteur. However, like the case you mention, it is not sufficient to establish an origin outside China. 

http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200429-french-coronavirus-strain-may-be-local-and-may-not-have-come-from-china

 

It may well be that the mystery of the origin of the virus will be solved by scientists doing their own research, without political interference. It may just take time.

[frenetic]

1 hour ago, Susco said:

 

Maybe you should try to read the articles, since this IS Wuhan.

 

You think that every credible newspaper in the world, as I can provide you as many links as you can digest, will publish the same false news?

Did you actually read the articles? Had you done so you would have noted that they are not 2 articles but one. From the AP. They hardly seem supportive of Chinese claims: 

"Zhao, an avid and often combative Twitter user, did not offer any evidence for his suggestion that the US military might be to blame for the outbreak in China."

[Susco]

53 minutes ago, frenetic said:

Did you actually read the articles? Had you done so you would have noted that they are not 2 articles but one. From the AP. They hardly seem supportive of Chinese claims: 

"Zhao, an avid and often combative Twitter user, did not offer any evidence for his suggestion that the US military might be to blame for the outbreak in China."

Yes I know it is the same article, I linked it twice from credible media sources, just to show that is was no tabloid.

 

"Zhao, an avid and often combative Twitter user, did not offer any evidence

 

Has anybody yet offered any evidence from where it originates?

[frenetic]

15 minutes ago, Susco said:

Yes I know it is the same article, I linked it twice from credible media sources, just to show that is was no tabloid.

 

"Zhao, an avid and often combative Twitter user, did not offer any evidence

 

Has anybody yet offered any evidence from where it originates?

The fact that the first outbreak was in China is already evidence. No one has come up with any evidence to show previous outbreaks elsewhere. So unless you resort to conspiracy theories, that's proof enough.

[Susco]

10 minutes ago, frenetic said:

The fact that the first outbreak was in China is already evidence. No one has come up with any evidence to show previous outbreaks elsewhere. So unless you resort to conspiracy theories, that's proof enough.

 

My article claims that the outbreak was in Wuhan, not somewhere else, but was carried there on purpose by US soldiers.

 

Where in the article does it say the outbreak was elsewhere?

 

How do you explain that many US army boats, which haven't seen land since the covid outbreak, have infections?

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Susco