U.S. coronavirus deaths exceed 75,000: Reuters tally

[Mama Noodle]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Classified briefings to the White House and congressional leadership... Not to the public. And we certainly didn't hear any of those risk warnings from Trump and Co. until long after it was too late.

 

And we likewise didn't hear anything from Congressional Democrat Leadership and Co. either, who were also briefed just like the Republicans, until this obviously partisan leak was published - to which you gobbled up - completely missing this obvious fact. 

[kingdong]

8 minutes ago, swerve said:

I applaud the posters who have called out the poor leadership of some countries during this pandemic.  There have been obvious losers.  UK, USA, Italy, France, Spain, and Belgium leaders have all done a weak job of protecting the public. Too slow, too nonchalant, too busy, too arrogant, too trusting, too foolish. History will remember these people.

For evil to triumph it only requires good men to do nothing.

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

When it wasn't a pandemic the world was listening to China and the WHO ! At least thats what my countries leader of the infectious disease was  trying  to do 

 

At least Trump had the courage of his convictions and told WHO to sling its hook.

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Trump and the federal government had/have the authority, the ONLY authority, to restrict international air travel coming into the U.S. -- banning foreign nationals and requiring quarantine for arriving Americans and repatriations. The states don't have all those rights. And the feds under Trump, virus denier in chief, didn't do it early enough or broadly enough. And now we're heading toward 100,000 dead.

 

That's what I'd call the tyranny of incompetence.

 

PS - Foreign nationals have no inherent rights to come to the U.S.  And Americans have no inherent right to spread communicable diseases to others.

 

 

this has been tried before.  would have to visit the googles if you want exact details.  a while back, couple decades maybe, new york wanted to deny landing rights or visas or similar to certain countries/persons, to prevent them from attending united nations meetings.  that never happened as the feds correctly asserted control over visas and immigration.

 

trump could at any time declare a national emergency and restrict all inbound flights to military, or limited charter flights, and can specify who can come in.  he could also quarantine individual states, as he had threatened to do at one point.  the states would argue in court, but the feds would easily win over the court with just commerce clause arguments.

 

trump could not, and can not, order individual states to lock down.  them's states rights.  the feds are in an advisory role only.  in this case, the cdc is the advisor, while trump is egging on protestors.....in blue states.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

And we likewise didn't hear anything from Congressional Democrat Leadership and Co. either, who were also briefed just like the Republicans, until this obviously partisan leak was published - to which you gobbled up - completely missing this obvious fact. 

 

The issue wasn't about going public with classified briefings, which would have been wrong on anyone's part.

 

The issue was about whether the federal government took any action in response to those briefings to help protect Americans. And that duty fell to the White House and federal agencies like CDC, HHS and others, all under Trump -- not Congress.

 

If Democrats had gone public with those warnings at the time, undoubtedly, you'd be here accusing them of leaking classified intelligence.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

The answer you seek is a couple pages back, if you read the thread instead of begging me to get you stuff you would have seen it. 

 

@Mama Noodle  14-day quarantine of returning americans is NOT banning the return of american citizens.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

@Mama Noodle  14-day quarantine of returning americans is NOT banning the return of american citizens.

 

But it is a false strawman argument he keeps harping on as a way of trying to deflect and excuse the inaction and failures of the federal government.

 

[Mama Noodle]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The issue wasn't about going public with classified briefings, which would have been wrong on anyone's part.

 

The issue was about whether the federal government took any action in response to those briefings to help protect Americans. And that duty fell to the White House and federal agencies like CDC, HHS and others, all under Trump -- not Congress.

 

And yet, Top Democrats knew just as much as the Top Republicans - Denied Science just like the Republican baddies - and fought Trump tooth and nail the whole time until it became serious then flipped script. They could have just as easily and without leaking started raising the alarm but they didn't, and they had the same information. 

 

Do we want to revisit this timeline? Or no and just continue to blame Trump. 

[riclag]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

At least Trump had the courage of his convictions and told WHO to sling its hook.

Everything the WHO got originated from one source country,I believe

[Crazy Alex]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Perhaps that's what comes from having to work for an arrogant president who long denied the virus would ever be a threat to the U.S. and made countless strident public statements to that effect, and who also long has had a practice of firing any government bureaucrats who cross him.

 

Fauci clearly has long had to carefully word his public statements so as to not too directly contradict the false rubbish that Trump has long been spouting.

 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/488961-fauci-on-trump-coronavirus-comments-i-cant-jump-in-front-of-the

So now, whatever Fauci said that turned out to be wrong, that is Trump's fault as well! Dude, seriously?

[Phulublub]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But it is a false strawman argument he keeps harping on as a way of trying to deflect and excuse the inaction and failures of the federal government.

 

I am now very confused.  I thought he said that US could NOT quarantine US citizens (or words to that effect), but I queried whether this was exactly what had happened to the US citizens brought in from the cruise ship in Japan.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Phulublub

[Crazy Alex]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The issue wasn't about going public with classified briefings, which would have been wrong on anyone's part.

 

The issue was about whether the federal government took any action in response to those briefings to help protect Americans. And that duty fell to the White House and federal agencies like CDC, HHS and others, all under Trump -- not Congress.

 

If Democrats had gone public with those warnings at the time, undoubtedly, you'd be here accusing them of leaking classified intelligence.

 

You raise a good angle here. Show us all the recommendations Democrats were making to deal with the virus while Trump did nothing.

[Mama Noodle]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But it is a false strawman argument he keeps harping on as a way of trying to deflect and excuse the inaction and failures of the federal government.

 

Fact: You were angry that Trumps Europe Ban did not include re-patriating Americans and their families and Military members and their families. 

But sure, you didn't want to ban Americans, you were just angry they weren't banned ????

[ChouDoufu]

59 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Mamanoodle

 

I think maybe you are confusing me with someone else.  The above is what I posted.  Cannot see any references to the information I seek, either in this thread or, regarding your statement about NY suing, anywhere on the web.

 

PH

try this

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490019-cuomo-threatens-to-sue-ri-over-new-coronavirus-policy-targeting-ny

 

 

[Crazy Alex]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But it is a false strawman argument he keeps harping on as a way of trying to deflect and excuse the inaction and failures of the federal government.

 

The federal government included 535 elected Congressional leaders. True or false? Or shall we just admit the truth that when you mention failures of the "federal government", you really mean "Trump and Trump only".

[candide]

4 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I guess Fauci blew it.

 

"Fauci said, “Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing. But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.”

 

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200429/fact-check-did-fauci-say-coronavirus-was-lsquonothing-to-worry-aboutrsquo

That was his perception of an immediate threat at this particular time. In his statements, as in this one, he always said that the country (CDC, etc...) should prepare for a worse situation.

 

Another big difference with Trump, is that Fauci's opinion evolved over time when more information was available. Trump went on downplaying risk until the last moment.

 

As you did on this forum together with the other faithful Trump followers, accusing the MSM of creating panic because they were relaying analyses from experts who were expressing clear warnings.

 

So tell me: you were all making a barrage on TVF, in order to downplay the warnings displayed by the MSM, discrediting experts, etc... Are you know claiming that Trump was not aware of these warnings?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

fought Trump tooth and nail the whole time

 I have no idea what you're talking about... And please don't try to wrongly conflate Democratic opposition to Trump's anti-immigrant policy announcement regarding certain (non CV) countries during that period with the coronavirus response... Two entirely separate issues.

 

The Democratic comments at the time were aimed at Trump's anti-immigrant policies, nothing about coronavirus, despite continuing efforts by right wingers to spread that false narrative.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Crazy Alex]

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

try this

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490019-cuomo-threatens-to-sue-ri-over-new-coronavirus-policy-targeting-ny

 

 

Cuomo is threatening to sue another state for protecting their people from the most infested state in the union. Apparently, Cuomo like some quarantines but not others. Sad. Pathetic, especially given how many elderly died because he sent virus patients to nursing homes.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

The federal government included 535 elected Congressional leaders. True or false? Or shall we just admit the truth that when you mention failures of the "federal government", you really mean "Trump and Trump only".

 You apparently need a U.S. civics lesson.

 

Congress is responsible for allocating budget and passing laws.

 

The executive branch (president and white house) are responsible for federal agencies and administration policies, including the work of CDC, HHS, Customs and Border Protection, etc etc... All the federal agencies that could have, but didn't, protect the American people.

 

Every one of those with a director appointed by the president and run by administration appointees.

 

So yes, that's exactly where I put the blame and where it deserves to be!

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[riclag]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

You raise a good angle here. Show us all the recommendations Democrats were making to deal with the virus while Trump did nothing.

The speaker of the house was busy giving press breifings trying to impeach the POTUS on the day of the jan 30 health briefing ! 

https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/13020-1

Edited May 9, 2020 by riclag

[Mama Noodle]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 I have no idea what you're talking about...

 

That much has always been clear. 

 

 

[RedPill]

This extreme dem/rep, super confusing media from all sides and constant fights over the past years ... not standing together as a unity in a country.

Same as in this thread, or any Trump thread, maybe that is the real downfall of this all?

 

Very difficult to look through of all of this ... I read up and read up, on all different kind of sources, and get non the wiser out of it ... other than the conclusion that's it all a big blame game on steroids.

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

That much has always been clear. 

 

Yep, I've very bad at interpreting nonsense and tolerating false rubbish..

 

I knew where you were headed with the false nonsense of Democrats fighting Trump... That's why I cut you off at the pass.... anti-immigrant policies having nothing to do with the coronavirus pandemic.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mama Noodle]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Congress is responsible for allocating budget and passing laws.

 

Also, which you conveniently left out:

Oversight, Intelligence Briefings etc which brings leadership into the information they need, which Democrat Leadership ignored just as much as Republican Leadership. 

[Crazy Alex]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 You apparently need a U.S. civics lesson.

 

Congress is responsible for allocating budget and passing laws.

 

The executive branch (president and white house) are responsible for federal agencies and administration policies, including the work of CDC, HHS, Customs and Border Protection, etc etc... All the federal agencies that could have, but didn't, protect the American people.

 

Every one of those with a director appointed by the president and run by administration appointees.

 

So yes, that's exactly where I put the blame and where it deserves to be!

 

So you don't expect politicians to speak out when the president is doing something they think is wrong. Got it.

[Mama Noodle]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yep, I've very bad at interpreting nonsense and tolerating false rubbish..

 

 

I understand. Holding you to account for your own positions and not allowing you to walk them back can be hard to tolerate. 

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to a paywall site has been removed. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

So you don't expect politicians to speak out when the president is doing something they think is wrong. Got it.

 

Lawmakers are not supposed to disclose information from classified briefings...and they can get into trouble if they do.

 

But that doesn't mean federal agencies can't act on the info THEY are providing to Congress in a classified setting. They could have, but they didn't.

 

HHS, CDC, CBP and others all work for Trump, not Congress. Congress is supposed to oversee them, but Trump has done his best to interfere with that obligation, as well.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ChouDoufu]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Cuomo is threatening to sue another state for protecting their people from the most infested state in the union. Apparently, Cuomo like some quarantines but not others. Sad. Pathetic, especially given how many elderly died because he sent virus patients to nursing homes.

yes.  phulublub asked for a link or reference several times.

i provided one.  there may be others.

i merely provided a link.  no value judgement.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

From Politico, March 30:

 

Quote

There were some notable attempts in Congress to raise red flags about the coronavirus. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer called on the Trump administration to declare a public health emergency back in January. The House Foreign Affairs Committee held a public hearing on the novel virus in early February. And Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) even implored the White House to take the virus seriously, though he was also peddling a debunked conspiracy theory about the origins of the coronavirus at the time.

 

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/huddle/2020/03/30/could-congress-have-done-more-to-prepare-for-coronavirus-488748

 

Quote

Speaker Nancy Pelosi ripped Trump for his coronavirus response, saying “his denial at the beginning was deadly. .... But as the President fiddles, people are dying. And we just have to take every precaution."

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK