Early end to U.S. state lockdowns could cause needless 'suffering and death' - Fauci

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

as expected the twitter rants started as soon as he woke up 555 .... the guy (Trump) must have a miserable life, never saw him smile or make a joke about anything, it must be a pleasure being on his presence

Completely weird guy personally, all other things apart. A letter in the Irish press explains well what people in the British Isles find so difficult about him. He has no sense of humour, none whatsoever. His idea of humour is jeering at others misfortune, mocking the disabled, or kicking someone when they are down. The DT book of humour and wit is empty, completely blank. memorable really funny things he has said, not one.

 

No wonder he cares nothing for the people who will lose their lives (As Fauci and many others has said they will) due to a premature  lockdown lift. 45 has no empathy, absolutely none, a classic symptom of Narscism.

[Redline]

On 5/13/2020 at 7:31 AM, Tug said:

Well I don’t know about you but I and my family will do our level best to follow safe protocols as dr Fauci has recommended imo another week or 2 of lockdown massive testing and tracing would have been appropriate it would indeed save lives and misery

And 75 percent of Americans think the same.

 

[muzley]

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Trump is the President. No? He said the same thing at the beginning and added that it will go away like a miracle. 

Funny how New York is the epicentre where you have Cuomo, Di Blasio and Mark Levine the Democrat health commissioner encouraging people to get out live normally even after Trumps travel ban. The 43,000 people who arrived after the ban from China were repatriated US citizens. Trump raised the possibilty of quarantining NY and Cuomo stated this would be an act of war!! Cuomo even threatened to sue Rhode Island for banning NY plated cars. That's the spirit of cooperation Governor!! These people are responsible for the huge toll in NY and god knows how many infections and deaths could of been prevented if Trump's idea of a quarantine area around NY was implemeted. No, Democrats must oppose Trump without exception.

[soalbundy]

On 5/13/2020 at 10:29 AM, Srikcir said:

'Unnecessary suffering and death'

Trump has previously addressed such scenario with 'It is what it is.'

 

Much as I hate to agree, however tentatively, with the orange fool he may be right. The WHO considers that this virus is here to stay, what can one do, soldier on. There will be herd immunity at some point and a vaccine that, like the flu vaccine, will have to be renewed, tweeked, every year. We can't run around with masks all year round holding a two meter distance from one another, it just isn't practical. Those individuals with a weak immune system have largely died from the virus, the death tolls from now on should be going down, yes infections will go up and people will have flu like symptoms every year and will be off work for 3 weeks. The economy (that is all important for all our lives) can't continue to be strangled like this for much longer. Deep breath and jump.

[Crazy Alex]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

If you had taken the time to look just one or two comments up the page, you would see that I was leveling criticism at the US over Covid. Since you could not be bothered to look it up, here it is: For the world at large, looking at America right now, they appear to be the most pitiful and utterly hapless and incompetent nation on earth. Make America great again? How about make America moderately competent?

 

The poster was asking where I was from, that I could compare my nation to the response of the US, I suppose.

The US response is worse than Italy? If Italy had the population of the US, they'd have twice the deaths the US does.

[nattaya09]

Fauci has the luxury of not having to answer for the massive, unintended collateral damage that comes with the response to it.

[tlock]

24 minutes ago, nattaya09 said:

Fauci has the luxury of not having to answer for the massive, unintended collateral damage that comes with the response to it.

Agreed- he is addressing the specific question "what is the best way to minimize coronavirus infections".  That is his job. Minimizing human interactions with lockdown policies seems like a reasonable solution.  

 

I think we are already past the point that "minimizing coronavirus infections" is the number one problem facing the world.  The problem is already "how to reverse the damage caused by lockdowns".  

 

[jimmybcool]

2 hours ago, tlock said:

Agreed- he is addressing the specific question "what is the best way to minimize coronavirus infections".  That is his job. Minimizing human interactions with lockdown policies seems like a reasonable solution.  

 

I think we are already past the point that "minimizing coronavirus infections" is the number one problem facing the world.  The problem is already "how to reverse the damage caused by lockdowns".  

 

it is a mess no matter how you look at it.  We can all point fingers at who failed at what but the bottom line is once it spread beyond the first infected area there was no stopping it traveling around the world.  And could Trump or Boris or other leaders have done something better?  Of course.  It's always easier in retrospect.  So the question is - what now?

 

Well, I don't think we can stay shut down much longer.  There are serious consequences to that and people need to get back to work.  But I don't think things are going back to "normal" any time soon.  For example I suspect major crowds like sporting events and concerts are on hold until we find a very effective treatment or vaccine.  

 

So I think the right answer is - ease back into living life.  Apply smart lifestyles via hand washing, distancing when possible, testing of people with symptoms.  Wearing masks where appropriate.  Those of us that are in the danger zone from age or health issues might want to be more careful than others but we can't stop the entire world from turning on our account.  I sure don't ask for it. If they open up the economy I will be happy for the younger people getting their lives back.  If it costs me a few of my same age friends or myself fair enough.  

 

I just hope we haven't completely screwed the economy up.  I predict some real pain coming for some people who don't realize it yet.  Like retirement funds suddenly bankrupt and local and state governments failing.  Continued high unemployment.   The pain has only just begun and the federal government can not bail them all out.  

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

14 hours ago, nattaya09 said:

Fauci has the luxury of not having to answer for the massive, unintended collateral damage that comes with the response to it.

Sounds exactly like President Trump's take on his responsibility: NONE

[Berkshire]

22 hours ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Where are you getting your figures from these numbers. You realize their counting overdose deaths, auto accidents, suicides, gun shot deaths things completely unrelated so the liberals can maintain the narrative! Most people are awoke in each country, yes even Thailand!

Lordy, where on Earth are you getting such nonsense?  There are all kinds of misinformation on the internet.  My question has always been who can possibly believe that stuff?  Well, you've managed to answer that.

[riclag]

On 5/13/2020 at 6:15 AM, Slosheroni said:

The amount of stupid in the US is astonishing.  Nobody keeps their distance. Nobody wears a mask.  People still shake hands. And yet the amount of armchair epidemiologists is through the roof.  These are the same Einsteins who went to a packed restaurant on Mother's Day just to show how tough they are.  Then, they complain about restrictions????   If anyone had common sense they'd be able to open and keep the virus from surging again.  Maybe this is all evolution. 

Broad brush ,Eh! 

"nobody wears masks" Everywhere around the world people are being people ,while livin their life! Its best to take care of yourself cause you can't control others!

https://www.google.com/search?q=people+wearing+face+masks+in++new+york&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiimYCm6bTpAhWV2nMBHeLBAGYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=people+wearing+face+masks+in++new+york&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDDoECCMQJ1C2rANYtbUDYKbIA2gAcAB4AIABXIgB2AKSAQE0mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ei=gv69XqLQE5W1z7sP4oODsAY&bih=500&biw=1093&gl=us

Edited May 15, 2020 by riclag

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

The US response is worse than Italy? If Italy had the population of the US, they'd have twice the deaths the US does.

Somehow, using a country with a disproportionate portion of elderly people, and a fairly poor medical system as a comparison, to the nation that loves to pride itself on being number one in everything, feels like a fairly pathetic and desperate comparison. In this case, the US is number one. In total Covid cases. Not exactly a point of pride. Nor are the 1,457,593 cases, and the 86.912 deaths. Sounds more like a broken medical system, and a broken nation to me. But, hey just my opinion as an American, who has had the great fortune to be able to leave the country, and live somewhere where the people are not so disappointed, bitter, cold, and disenfranchised.

[riclag]

11 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

it is a mess no matter how you look at it.  We can all point fingers at who failed at what but the bottom line is once it spread beyond the first infected area there was no stopping it traveling around the world.  And could Trump or Boris or other leaders have done something better?  Of course.  It's always easier in retrospect.  So the question is - what now?

 

Well, I don't think we can stay shut down much longer.  There are serious consequences to that and people need to get back to work.  But I don't think things are going back to "normal" any time soon.  For example I suspect major crowds like sporting events and concerts are on hold until we find a very effective treatment or vaccine.  

 

So I think the right answer is - ease back into living life.  Apply smart lifestyles via hand washing, distancing when possible, testing of people with symptoms.  Wearing masks where appropriate.  Those of us that are in the danger zone from age or health issues might want to be more careful than others but we can't stop the entire world from turning on our account.  I sure don't ask for it. If they open up the economy I will be happy for the younger people getting their lives back.  If it costs me a few of my same age friends or myself fair enough.  

 

I just hope we haven't completely screwed the economy up.  I predict some real pain coming for some people who don't realize it yet.  Like retirement funds suddenly bankrupt and local and state governments failing.  Continued high unemployment.   The pain has only just begun and the federal government can not bail them all out.  

 

 

Man did you nail it!

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Somehow, using a country with a disproportionate portion of elderly people, and a fairly poor medical system as a comparison, to the nation that loves to pride itself on being number one in everything, feels like a fairly pathetic and desperate comparison. In this case, the US is number one. In total Covid cases. Not exactly a point of pride. Nor are the 1,457,593 cases, and the 86.912 deaths. Sounds more like a broken medical system, and a broken nation to me. But, hey just my opinion as an American, who has had the great fortune to be able to leave the country, and live somewhere where the people are not so disappointed, bitter, cold, and disenfranchised.

Don't forget the 3 weeks of warning Italy gave to the US.

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Don't forget the 3 weeks of warning Italy gave to the US.

Plus the shutting down of the office of Pandemics of the NSC, back in May of 2018, which was the height of hubris and arrogance. And ignoring multiple warnings back as early as January. Alot of this blood falls directly on the shoulders of Trump. His insistence on politicizing the message early on, denying the potential effects of this virus, cost alot of lives, and prevented the kind of fast action that spared South Korea, a nation with far more intelligence, far more capable politicians, and far less partisan politics than the US. 

[Tie Dye Samurai]

17 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

The US response is worse than Italy? If Italy had the population of the US, they'd have twice the deaths the US does.

the US response is worse than Italy's because they saw what was going on with Italy and didn't take it seriously so it was botched to an epic...wait, here is some Trump speak for you so the Fox News crowd can soak it in.."To an unprecedented level, the likes which has never been seen before folks...it is amazing"

[Nigel Garvie]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:13 PM, Crazy Alex said:

The US response is worse than Italy? If Italy had the population of the US, they'd have twice the deaths the US does.

Yes but the whole point is that Italy is well over the worst, and the US is still in an earlier part of the "process". I read that cv19 outbreaks are beginning to hit areas like the mid west, and add to that the glib willingness of 45 to sacrifice lives to restart the economy and things will get a whole lot worse- tragically.

[Sheryl]

On 5/13/2020 at 8:11 AM, Vigilante said:

Early end to U.S. state lockdowns could cause needless 'suffering and death

 

...whereas late re-opening will also cause 'needless suffering and death'

In the form of suicides, increased drug/alcohol consumption etc etc

 

Have you  noticed that eventually EVERYTHING becomes a Left vs Right issue?

Dems=long lockdowns    GOP=limited or no lockdowns

 

A divorce is coming..

 

Nobody advocates "long lockdowns" per se.

 

What is being advocated is that lockdowns and their lifting be based on criteria related to risk of a disease spike. In some places that will mean very short lockdowns, in other places longer.

 

Absolutely nobody is suggesting lockdowns for just for the H&%$ of it or lockdowns for a set period irregardless of conditions.

 

Studdies from the Spanish Flu found that places that lifted lockdown earlier did not, as a whole, do better eocnomically, in fact the opposite. Took many of their economies longer to recover. Because the disease itself exacts a considerable economic toll.

 

Then too there was pressure to ease lockdowns, even riots.  And there was also a huge second wave of infection that was more lethal than the first one.

 

South Dakota never issued a lockdown. Yet its meat processing/packing industry took a huge economic hit. Not from lockdown closure but from a large outbreak of the virus.

 

There is not a scenario here under which there is no economic loss and pain. It is a balancing act, or should be, not an 'all or nothing' approach.

 

There is an intelligent conversation to be had around what containment measures are necessary, where and when. And when all the dust settles it is quite likely that some measures will prove to have been unnecessary while others will prove to have been crucial. 

 

Politicizing the issue does not help.

[tlock]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Nobody advocates "long lockdowns" per se.

 

What is being advocated is that lockdowns and their lifting be based on criteria related to risk of a disease spike. In some places that will mean very short lockdowns, in other places longer.

 

Absolutely nobody is suggesting lockdowns for just for the H&%$ of it or lockdowns for a set period irregardless of conditions.

 

Studdies from the Spanish Flu found that places that lifted lockdown earlier did not, as a whole, do better eocnomically, in fact the opposite. Took many of their economies longer to recover. Because the disease itself exacts a considerable economic toll.

 

Then too there was pressure to ease lockdowns, even riots.  And there was also a huge second wave of infection that was more lethal than the first one.

 

South Dakota never issued a lockdown. Yet its meat processing/packing industry took a huge economic hit. Not from lockdown closure but from a large outbreak of the virus.

 

There is not a scenario here under which there is no economic loss and pain. It is a balancing act, or should be, not an 'all or nothing' approach.

 

There is an intelligent conversation to be had around what containment measures are necessary, where and when. And when all the dust settles it is quite likely that some measures will prove to have been unnecessary while others will prove to have been crucial. 

 

Politicizing the issue does not help.

I didn't realize we had previously tried the lockdown approach before.  I researched it, I found this article: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/pandemic-economy-lessons-1918-flu that cites this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684187/ which says that for the Spanish Flu the lockdowns were for 1-10 weeks. 

 

There were 115,340 excess pneumonia and influenza deaths (EDR, 500/100,000 population) in the 43 cities during the 24 weeks analyzed. Every city adopted at least 1 of the 3 major categories of nonpharmaceutical interventions. School closure and public gathering bans activated concurrently represented the most common combination implemented in 34 cities (79%); this combination had a median duration of 4 weeks (range, 1-10 weeks) and was significantly associated with reductions in weekly EDR.

[alfalfa19]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Somehow, using a country with a disproportionate portion of elderly people, and a fairly poor medical system as a comparison, to the nation that loves to pride itself on being number one in everything, feels like a fairly pathetic and desperate comparison. In this case, the US is number one. In total Covid cases. Not exactly a point of pride. Nor are the 1,457,593 cases, and the 86.912 deaths. Sounds more like a broken medical system, and a broken nation to me. But, hey just my opinion as an American, who has had the great fortune to be able to leave the country, and live somewhere where the people are not so disappointed, bitter, cold, and disenfranchised.

yes, well said

[alfalfa19]

14 hours ago, stevenl said:

Source please.

look it up yourself, it is easily found.  i am not your research boy. 

[alfalfa19]

15 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Link to support your clam of payoff for accusing Fauci and evidence of quotes, please.

look it up yourself.  it is easily found.   i will give you a helpful hint, however:   you won't find it on fox news.  

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, tlock said:

I didn't realize we had previously tried the lockdown approach before.  I researched it, I found this article: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/pandemic-economy-lessons-1918-flu that cites this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684187/ which says that for the Spanish Flu the lockdowns were for 1-10 weeks. 

 

There were 115,340 excess pneumonia and influenza deaths (EDR, 500/100,000 population) in the 43 cities during the 24 weeks analyzed. Every city adopted at least 1 of the 3 major categories of nonpharmaceutical interventions. School closure and public gathering bans activated concurrently represented the most common combination implemented in 34 cities (79%); this combination had a median duration of 4 weeks (range, 1-10 weeks) and was significantly associated with reductions in weekly EDR.

Lockdowns go way, way back. Hundreds if not thousands of years.  Done during the various plagues of the Middle Ages and likely long before.  People did not know about viruses and bacteria then, but they did know that somehow thete was people to people spread of disease.

 

I was just reading excerpts from an account if a plague in the 1600's. A lot of similarities to today. Inclyding some of the political responses.

[Crazy Alex]

4 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes but the whole point is that Italy is well over the worst, and the US is still in an earlier part of the "process". I read that cv19 outbreaks are beginning to hit areas like the mid west, and add to that the glib willingness of 45 to sacrifice lives to restart the economy and things will get a whole lot worse- tragically.

Yes, obviously there is going to be a trade-off between lives and the economy. That's cost/benefit analysis and implementation that any organization does.

[brokenbone]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Lockdowns go way, way back. Hundreds if not thousands of years.  Done during the various plagues of the Middle Ages and likely long before.  People did not know about viruses and bacteria then, but they did know that somehow thete was people to people spread of disease.

 

I was just reading excerpts from an account if a plague in the 1600's. A lot of similarities to today. Inclyding some of the political responses.

...and now i know why its not called trentino but quarantine,

ragusa (part of the venice republic i think) issued the 30 day isolation law 1377, but later on it was extended to 40 days,

quaranta meaning 40 in italian

Edited May 15, 2020 by brokenbone

[Crazy Alex]

16 hours ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

the US response is worse than Italy's because they saw what was going on with Italy and didn't take it seriously so it was botched to an epic...wait, here is some Trump speak for you so the Fox News crowd can soak it in.."To an unprecedented level, the likes which has never been seen before folks...it is amazing"

The US instituted flight restrictions from China on the same day Italy did.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/13/2020 at 10:04 AM, webfact said:

Leading U.S. infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci on Tuesday warned Congress that a premature lifting of lockdowns could lead to additional outbreaks of the deadly coronavirus, which has killed 80,000 Americans and brought the economy to its knees.

Wish all those well off with nothing to fear about losing their livelihood so called experts would stop blaming the destruction of economies on the virus when it's government actions that have cause the crisis.

 

I'll bet none of those that want to continue lockdown are faced with losing their jobs, income, and perhaps even their lives due to the government imposed lockdowns.

Edited May 15, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

The US instituted flight restrictions from China on the same day Italy did.

Never let the facts get in the way of bashing you know who.

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, alfalfa19 said:

look it up yourself, it is easily found.  i am not your research boy. 

Make claims, substantiate them. If you can not, don't make them.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory name calling post and the replies have been removed.