Can VPN "crash" your modem connection?

[DUS]

Hello,

 

Earlier today, I posted about my switch to TrueOnline yesterday and asked why the download speeds of some of my devices used are up to 4-5 times faster over Wifi than via LAN cable. Whilst this question was more out of curiosity and the desire to learn more about these "things" without it having a real impact on how I can use the internet, I am now facing an issue that actually does give me some headache as it negatively impacts the network´s usability.

 

Here´s what is happening:

 

Whenever I use a VPN connection on my Mac (via WLAN; PureVPN) whilst at the same time streaming some content on TV via the android box, within 5 -15 minutes the internet connection is lost because the cable modem/router loses its connection to the True network. The DS / US and Online LEDs on the modem/router go off (the manual says this means cable downstream and upstream are disconnected and there is no RF signal), then start blinking (scanning) and after a minute or so the network access is reestablished. This happens again and again after 5 - 15 minutes. The moment I disconnect the VPN the network connection is stable without any further modem/router issues.

 

Can it really be that the use of the VPN results in lost network connections and the modem to "crash"? Or is my observation so far (VPN on --> crash, VPN off --> all good) just pure coincidence? After all, I´ve been using the new modem for just over 1 day. But since this happened yesterday and has happened again today I wonder what might be at play here. Is that a known issue amongst the regulars / pros here on this forum? Any advice as to what I should look at or do to fix this issue (other than just avoiding using a VPN)? I will certainly play around with it again tomorrow and see if I can reproduce the crashes and I will also run the VPN without the android box at the same time etc etc. But I thought I might as well ask the community here for some initial thoughts and comments. 

 

Thank you!

DUS

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RichCor]

If your VPN is encrypting data travelling over the connection, then yes it can potentially crash your system connection or router connection (even though it's not supposed to have that or any affect on them).

 

Basically, a VPN "encapsulates" all your normal Internet traffic and redirects is to your VPN provider. Unfortunately, the device or the router may still try to inspect the contents and become confused when it tries parsing the gobbledy-goop encrypted data held in the packets.

 

My Windows 10 laptop will more often than not drop my WiFi connections when I have any of my various VPN software solution session enabled while I'm interacting with my work location. Even if I'm just using Google Chrome Remote Desktop, sans VPN, the encryption of that connection will cause my computer to drop WiFi or the router would hang and require a reset. 

 

Have recently upgraded my TOT and TRUE Fiber connections with their latest router offerings and so far it seems to be much better (the prior TOT Fiber router would always cause my WiFi to hang when I disconnected from my various VPN software.

 

The usual solution is to find the latest drivers for your network adapters and disable Stateful Packet Inspections (SPI) or any other 'filter' that the router may be trying to run against your data throughput. Sometimes you'll find a 'fix'. Sometimes the fix gets you  ...actually sometimes you just need to replace your network equipment with something different that doesn't get in the way.

[Stadtler]

9 minutes ago, RichCor said:

If your VPN is encrypting data travelling over the connection, then yes it can potentially crash your system connection or router connection (even though it's not supposed to have that or any affect on them).

 

Basically, a VPN "encapsulates" all your normal Internet traffic and redirects is to your VPN provider. Unfortunately, the device or the router may still try to inspect the contents and become confused when it tries parsing the gobbledy-goop encrypted data held in the packets.

Everything you said above, is 100 percent wrong. 

[Stadtler]

41 minutes ago, DUS said:

Whenever I use a VPN connection on my Mac (via WLAN; PureVPN) whilst at the same time streaming some content on TV via the android box, within 5 -15 minutes the internet connection is lost because the cable modem/router loses its connection to the True network.

A packet is a packet, is a packet.  All packets look the same to a router.

 

Your problem is TRUE.

[Susco]

44 minutes ago, DUS said:

Or is my observation so far (VPN on --> crash, VPN off --> all good) just pure coincidence? After all, I´ve been using the new modem for just over 1 day.

Does your modem/router has a VPN pass-through setting that's enabled?

[Stadtler]

Just now, Susco said:

Does your modem/router has a VPN pass-through setting that's enabled?

If it wasn't set properly, your VPN wouldn't connect.

[Susco]

1 minute ago, Stadtler said:

If it wasn't set properly, your VPN wouldn't connect.

 

You seem to be an expert, and armchair one that is

 

https://www.cactusvpn.com/beginners-guide-to-vpn/vpn-passthrough/

 

However, VPN protocols like PPTP, IPSec, and L2TP don’t normally work with NAT.

Router VPN Passthrough technology usually allows those specific protocols to work with NAT. Users can normally easily enable and disable PPTP/L2TP/IPSec Passthrough through their router’s interface.

 

Normally, if you use VPN protocols like OpenVPN, SoftEther, and SSTP, you don’t need to worry about VPN Passthrough being enabled or not. With IKEv2, though, you might have to turn on PPTP/L2TP/IPSec Passthrough the allow VPN traffic through.

[Susco]

https://www.quora.com/Everytime-I-use-VPN-the-wifi-connection-in-my-phone-gets-disconnected-after-10-minutes-or-less-There-was-no-problem-earlier-Any-solution

 

Everytime I use VPN the wifi connection in my phone gets disconnected after 10 minutes or less. There was no problem earlier. Any solution?

[Stadtler]

Just now, Susco said:

So since you refute everyone's opinion, you must be the expert.

 

We all can't wait for your professional explanation.

 

You want to share it with use, please?

Yeah, a whole bunch of Cisco Certifications and 35 years in the business, what do I know?

 

He should dump TRUE because everyone I talk to who has TRUE, hates it and complains that it is not reliable. 

 

A packet, is a packet, is a packet.

[Stadtler]

I use AIS Fiber.  It's reliable.  My VPN stays connected until I turn it off.  Sometimes it is running for days.  Change your internet provider.  Try AIS.

[Susco]

1 hour ago, DUS said:

asked why the download speeds of some of my devices used are up to 4-5 times faster over Wifi than via LAN cable.

 

Same here with 3BB Fibre.

 

Single connection to London with testmy.net over LAN Cat5e, around 20 Mbps.

 

Same device, same test, over 5Ghz wifi over 50 Mbps with the router behind a cavity wall.

 

Using a Samsung smartphone, so that I can position myself where I get the strongest signal, over 70 Mbps

[torturedsole]

57 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Regarding VPN. Perhaps the OP could try the free VPN incorporated into the Opera browser. See if that causes his wifi to disconnect. About 2 years ago I had a paid VPN service that stopped working in Thailand. I tried others too and couldn't get them to work. I also had a VPN service that would work for awhile and then fail. The IP addresses were being blocked.

Good point and I suspect the OP's issue is the VPN provider.  Let's face it, lots of them make glorious claims but never live up to the hype.  I recently purchased a Linksys WRT AC3200 Dual-Band MU-MIMO Router and now the VPN is on the router.  Easy to control what devices are VPN tunnelled.  

[uncleP]

No VPN issues for me with true, however, I use nordvpn and linux 

[Stadtler]

18 hours ago, JensenZ said:

I'm no IT expert, but wifi performing 4-5 times faster than LAN is really strange, even to a layman.

You may not be an expert, but you know more than the gaslighters here who claim to be experts.  WIFI has overhead that wire does not.  The WIFI speeds claimed are usually only burstable speeds.  Most WIFI cannot maintain anything near the speed they advertise.

[Stadtler]

Not one of the "experts" here responded to my comment about layer 1.

 

If your wired speeds are so slow and much slower than your wifi, I would try replacing your Cat 5 cable, or remove that heavy desk that is sitting on top of it.

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts and the inflammatory replies have been removed.  

 

Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately via the report function.  Responding to objectionable messages is discouraged.

[DUS]

First of all, thanks for all of your replies. I certainly didn´t expect my initial question to result in such a rather "controversial discussion". ????

As for the VPN causing the modem/router to soft-reboot, I still do not have a definitive answer based on my observations, today. The day started off in a way that I thought "it is definitely the VPN" because 2 minutes after starting the Mac and the VPN the modem did indeed reboot. Then another 10 minutes or so later, it did again. I thought I had found the guilty party. But that might have been the wrong conclusion because after the box had the second soft-reboot the connection was indeed stable for the next few hours.

 

Later on, I realised that my Mac was using the 2.4Ghz rather than the 5Ghz connection. A couple of minutes after I changed to the 5Ghz network, .... yep, the modem rebooted. Could the modem probably not handle 3 or so active 5Ghz devices simultaneously? After all, as many people write here and elsewhere, the Humax hardware doesn´t seem to be very good (to put it mildly). In the end, it motivated me to look for my Apple router that I hadn´t used for years and somehow I managed to connect it with the Humax, set it up and since this afternoon the Wifi as well as the LAN connections are all handled by the Apple Time Capsule. So far, so good. The cable modem has not had a single hiccup since and the speed (according to the various speed testing sites) is now significantly higher, as well. 

 

So, maybe, just maybe it wasn´t anything to do with the VPN or the 5Ghz wifi but just a poor piece of hardware used by True. I don´t know the answer just yet but it has certainly been a nice experience to go for 8 hours without the modem doing a soft re-boot. Fingers crossed that it´ll stay that way.

 

Again, thanks for your replies and enjoy the upcoming weekend.

 

DUS

 

 

[Stadtler]

2 hours ago, DUS said:

First of all, thanks for all of your replies. I certainly didn´t expect my initial question to result in such a rather "controversial discussion". ????

As for the VPN causing the modem/router to soft-reboot, I still do not have a definitive answer based on my observations, today. The day started off in a way that I thought "it is definitely the VPN" because 2 minutes after starting the Mac and the VPN the modem did indeed reboot. Then another 10 minutes or so later, it did again. I thought I had found the guilty party. But that might have been the wrong conclusion because after the box had the second soft-reboot the connection was indeed stable for the next few hours.

 

Later on, I realised that my Mac was using the 2.4Ghz rather than the 5Ghz connection. A couple of minutes after I changed to the 5Ghz network, .... yep, the modem rebooted. Could the modem probably not handle 3 or so active 5Ghz devices simultaneously? After all, as many people write here and elsewhere, the Humax hardware doesn´t seem to be very good (to put it mildly). In the end, it motivated me to look for my Apple router that I hadn´t used for years and somehow I managed to connect it with the Humax, set it up and since this afternoon the Wifi as well as the LAN connections are all handled by the Apple Time Capsule. So far, so good. The cable modem has not had a single hiccup since and the speed (according to the various speed testing sites) is now significantly higher, as well. 

 

So, maybe, just maybe it wasn´t anything to do with the VPN or the 5Ghz wifi but just a poor piece of hardware used by True. I don´t know the answer just yet but it has certainly been a nice experience to go for 8 hours without the modem doing a soft re-boot. Fingers crossed that it´ll stay that way.

 

Again, thanks for your replies and enjoy the upcoming weekend.

 

DUS

 

 

Before you make any conclusions, may I suggest you factory reset your router/modem from TRUE.

 

Again, don't listen to Cisco certs and 30+ years in the tech business as a consultant ... what do I know?

[robblok]

6 hours ago, Stadtler said:

Before you make any conclusions, may I suggest you factory reset your router/modem from TRUE.

 

Again, don't listen to Cisco certs and 30+ years in the tech business as a consultant ... what do I know?

Your experience is noted however his solution works (for now as we all know that can change diagnosing computer problems can be hard).

 

I have found that a better modem often helps as those low cost modems are not that good. I got my 3bb modem in bridge mode and an asus RT-AC86U as router and it works great. When i had just the 3bb router i had problems as the router just did not seem to handle all the work properly.

 

I do agree that its unlikely that a VPN crashes a modem connection. Though I would not rule it out completely. 

 

I really feel that often its much better to have your modem in bridge and get a decent one to be the main router if you want stability and speeds and options. 

[RichCor]

15 hours ago, DUS said:

So, maybe, just maybe it wasn´t anything to do with the VPN or the 5Ghz wifi but just a poor piece of hardware used by True. I don´t know the answer just yet but it has certainly been a nice experience to go for 8 hours without the modem doing a soft re-boot. Fingers crossed that it´ll stay that way.

This wouldn't be the first time that an Internet Service's provided hardware turned out to be partial or total garbage (especially their NAT or WiFi implementations). As you've discovered, sometimes you're better off purchasing and deploying your own solution.

 

At least your solution wasn't one dedicating a livingroom fan pointed at the router 24/7 to keep it from overheating. 

[sead]

Absolutely.  Try a different setting or country. 

[Billthekiwi]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:52 AM, Stadtler said:

Yeah, a whole bunch of Cisco Certifications and 35 years in the business, what do I know?

 

He should dump TRUE because everyone I talk to who has TRUE, hates it and complains that it is not reliable. 

 

A packet, is a packet, is a packet.

At my last house I was connected to True by my landlord. It was quite unreliable. Every night at 9 it disconnected regardless of what I was doing. Twice a month it broke. Still the landlords offspring was something at True so it may have had something dodgy about it.

 

Now I am with AIS and it is much more reliable even when using a VPN. I'm not that happy with my VPN though as it fails the Netflix test.

[Stadtler]

2 hours ago, Billthekiwi said:

At my last house I was connected to True by my landlord. It was quite unreliable. Every night at 9 it disconnected regardless of what I was doing. Twice a month it broke. Still the landlords offspring was something at True so it may have had something dodgy about it.

 

Now I am with AIS and it is much more reliable even when using a VPN. I'm not that happy with my VPN though as it fails the Netflix test.

AIS in two places, has consistently provided the DL and UL I pay for. My VPN stays connected for days -yes, Netflix.

 

[CharlieH]

Reported flame post removed.

[Stadtler]

I am an IT expert.  I also specialize in security and encryption.  I've been doing this most of my adult life on my own, having not worked for anyone since the first Gulf War.  Why does that bring all the wannabe IT people out to snipe?  If you were a doctor, I wouldn't be full of resentment over the fact that I am not a doctor.  I am not a doctor wannabe either. 

 

So tough luck for all of you who pretend to be professionals.  I won't lose a moment's sleep because you are not.

 

To give advice to the OP and all those who complain about their internet, I suggest when you encounter repeatable issues, that you factory reset your router.  If that doesn't help, or doesn't last, then call your provider and ask them to replace your router.

 

Now, how do you do that without going through all the nonsense they put you through to troubleshoot?  Sometimes you know that replacing the router/modem is the way to go.

 

Unplug your router/modem.  Call your provider.  Tell them it won't turn on.

 

I know, that's brilliant I thought I heard one of you think out loud.  It stops the incessant troubleshooting they put you through.  A thin Thai man will likely show up with a new router, and will take your old horrible router back to the shop where they might figure out your ruse, but it will be too late.  Don't leave it connected when the tech comes.  Have it ready to leave with him.

 

I know, it's sheer brilliance sometimes when you can outwit the Thai nonsense with no annoyance factor.

 

You're welcome.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Stadtler

[Susco]

3 hours ago, Billthekiwi said:

I'm not that happy with my VPN though as it fails the Netflix test.

Not related to your ISP, but your vpn service.

 

If you want a VPN that doesn't fail the Netflix test send me a PM, you can try it out 7 day for free

[KhunHeineken]

I had a similar problem to this a while ago and it ended up being the settings attached to the kill switch feature of the VPN.  If your VPN has a kill switch feature, maybe check it out.

Edited May 19, 2020 by KhunHeineken

[DUS]

Thank you, KhunHeineken. 

 

The modem soft-rebooting *appears* to have had nothing to do with the VPN in the end. Once I installed a different router the problems stopped and I haven’t had another soft-reboot of the modem since (for 5-6 days now). 

[pineapple01]

If those silly little men stopped saying i cant watch Winnie the Poo in my area VPNs would just fade away.

[stouricks]

3BB 1GHz connection via their router, connected to NUC PC with CAT6 cable, 20 metres long. Never get under 800Mb/s without Express VPN or 200Mb/s with it connected to London, never cuts out except during a storm maybe, router is on 24/7, wifi works in bedroom 16 meters away through 2 walls. What am I doing wrong?   PML

Edited May 19, 2020 by stouricks