Colorado Switches To Honest COVID-19 Death Count, Death Toll Drops 31%

[Susco]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Stop twisting the issues.

What else you expect from a Trumpeteer? Just look at the daily white house briefings, to see the same

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, Crazy Alex said:

In the cases you've described, they would still be listed as traffic accidents. And if you're correct, why has the state of Colorado ceased counting these deaths as COVID-19 deaths? I shall now assume you prefer the initial way of doing it, even though it's not been done that way before.

 

But let's be more clear about it. Let's take your diabetes scenario. Should the cause of death be a traffic accident? Or diabetes?

No they would not be listed as death from a traffic accident.  The Coroners report would list the most important factor which led to the death.  Ask me how I know?  35 years as a Law Enforcement Officer, Traffic Unit Supervisor, and commander with final review of the report before it was signed off.  The coroners reports were always a major factor as well as a 24 hour driver profile of what the driver did the prior 24 hours which could have also led to the accident.  Fatigue, Drinking, Medical emergency, but then the coroner would tell you exactly how they died.  Had the accident not occurred could they have still lived if proper treatment had been obtained or would they still have died because of the medical issues prior to the accident.  I have personally watched a 2 car collision, rear ender at 35 mph.  The driver of the rear car had a heart attack and then hit his chest on the steering wheel when he ran into the rear of the car ahead.  It was not the steering wheel that caused his death 2 days later it was the heart attack...are you tracking yet......

[yuyiinthesky]

10 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes Diabetic dies from diabetes incident leading to car accident which claims life.....figure it out Alex.  Just because it was an accident there was a precipitating factor which would lead to that death.

Wasn't it the damn truck ignoring the red light, crashing into his car? How could the truck driver know about his diabetes, or get influenced by it? ????

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

What else you expect from a Trumpeteer? Just look at the daily white house briefings, to see the same

you need to get your facts straight...I do not support any politician nor do I have an agenda.  I post the relevant things and information.  Its not a conspiracy Susco..

[Crazy Alex]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

No they would not be listed as death from a traffic accident.  The Coroners report would list the most important factor which led to the death.  Ask me how I know?  35 years as a Law Enforcement Officer, Traffic Unit Supervisor, and commander with final review of the report before it was signed off.  The coroners reports were always a major factor as well as a 24 hour driver profile of what the driver did the prior 24 hours which could have also led to the accident.  Fatigue, Drinking, Medical emergency, but then the coroner would tell you exactly how they died.  Had the accident not occurred could they have still lived if proper treatment had been obtained or would they still have died because of the medical issues prior to the accident.  I have personally watched a 2 car collision, rear ender at 35 mph.  The driver of the rear car had a heart attack and then hit his chest on the steering wheel when he ran into the rear of the car ahead.  It was not the steering wheel that caused his death 2 days later it was the heart attack...are you tracking yet......

Finally, we agree. You admit these would be listed as traffic accident deaths, not death from diabetes. I'm thrilled for this debate with you to come to an end. That is all.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Wasn't it the damn truck ignoring the red light, crashing into his car? How could the truck driver know about his diabetes, or get influenced by it? ????

Quite possibly the precipitating cause for the accident but not the death.....unless the driver was killed instantly when his head exploded....you take all the facts into consideration and so does a coroner.  Had the diabetic been cognizant and observant, and not having a diabetic emergency, could that person have avoided the collision....

[Susco]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

you need to get your facts straight...I do not support any politician nor do I have an agenda.  I post the relevant things and information.  Its not a conspiracy Susco..

Comprehensive reading seemingly was also not your favourite subject at school, my comment was directed at the poster you responded to.

[Odysseus123]

Just now, Susco said:

What else you expect from a Trumpeteer? Just look at the daily white house briefings, to see the same

But they are "energetic"

 

As Rene Descates once said when confronted with multiple posts of total flim

-flammery..

 

"i post therefore I am"

 

You must imagine Rene saying this with a Gauloise protruding from his lips and Simone de Beauvoir hanging from his elbow...

 

Oh..wait..I've got my froggy philosophers mixed up...

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I see. So you are here trying to drag Thailand criteria into a story about Colorado changing how they count virus deaths, but it's me who's twisting the issues? And specifically, which of "Dr. Fauci's reports" do you think rationalizes counting deaths by other causes as COVID-19 deaths?

Once again you only see what you want in order to make your points.  This is not only a Colorado issue, but a worldwide one...However, I bow to your superior intellect and expanded frontal lope of knowledge of all....Good night Alex, enjoy your day in whatever country your are in...

[Crazy Alex]

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

But they are "energetic"

 

As Rene Descates once said when confronted with multiple posts of total flim

-flammery..

 

"i post therefore I am"

 

You must imagine Rene saying this with a Gauloise protruding from his lips and Simone de Beauvoir hanging from his elbow...

 

Oh..wait..I've got my froggy philosophers mixed up...

The topic is Colorado changing their criteria for counting COVID-19 deaths. Which method do you prefer? The original method or the new one?

[yuyiinthesky]

8 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest Dr Fauci knows more about viruses, epidemiology, pathology and statistics that the OP or any of those supporting the OP's post.

I just read the OP again and all I see is that Colorado corrected the way they're counting, and that the OP likes it. I also like it if someone corrects or improves something. I don't know what politics or Dr Fauci's expertise has to do with that.

I think Colorado and all other states should continue trying to improve and correct their reporting. I can't see anything wrong with that.

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Finally, we agree. You admit these would be listed as traffic accident deaths, not death from diabetes. I'm thrilled for this debate with you to come to an end. That is all.

Again you read into things to make your point.  Look at the entire issue of everything I laid out for you.  It may have been a traffic accident but that's not what they died from.  You don't die from an accident, you die from a relevant medical issue which caused you to become deceased....enjoy

[yuyiinthesky]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Quite possibly the precipitating cause for the accident but not the death.....unless the driver was killed instantly when his head exploded....you take all the facts into consideration and so does a coroner.  Had the diabetic been cognizant and observant, and not having a diabetic emergency, could that person have avoided the collision....

OK, I give up, you must be right, without the diabetes superman would have managed to get out alive.

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, Susco said:

Comprehensive reading seemingly was also not your favourite subject at school, my comment was directed at the poster you responded to.

You should have listed that post also as a multi quote and not just mine, it made it look like you were singling my post out and comparing me to what you said. I apologize for the error of not reading into your post regarding mine..

[yuyiinthesky]

14 minutes ago, Susco said:

What else you expect from a Trumpeteer?

Thin ice you're on, posts in this thread got deleted already when mentioning that name (see some posts above).

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Thin ice you're on, posts in this thread got deleted already when mentioning that name (see some posts above).

Ah..thin ice..

 

Reminds me of 'Miss Smylla's Feeling for Snow'

 

Otherwise the thread is pure Lewis Carroll.

[Susco]

3 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Thin ice you're on, posts in this thread got deleted already when mentioning that name (see some posts above).

Yes we know long time that the naive thin skinned report posts when their feeling about their hero are hurt.

[Tie Dye Samurai]

41 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your driving and have an MI, you loose control of the car, the car hits a tree, you die, the accident may have killed you, but it was the precipitating MI that led to the death...are you getting it know..... 

That is exactly how Randy "Macho Man" Savage died....

[yuyiinthesky]

9 minutes ago, Susco said:

Yes we know long time that the naive thin skinned report posts when their feeling about their hero are hurt.

Which hero?

[ThailandRyan]

19 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

That is exactly how Randy "Macho Man" Savage died....

"Ooooooh Yeaahhhhh." medical event precipitated the accident.  Glad you get it...I do miss the Macho Man. and Rowdy Roddy Piper who also died of a heart attack......

[ThailandRyan]

25 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Which hero?

Please stop, your only embarrassing yourself and the Colorado conspiracy theorist

[BeltAndRoad]

1 hour ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Meanwhile I stumbled upon the answer as to which party is responsible for Covid-19 in the US:
Source: https://wmbriggs.com/post/30833/ (Warning, lockdown fans better don't follow the link, For open minds, it is quite interesting)
There it is, and I assume everybody can agree with this. The ultimate truth ????

Sorry I stopped reading at "Taiwan is a Country" 

Regardless of opinion, an article containing this can't be sold as "The Ultimate truth"

[Tie Dye Samurai]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

No, you're wrong. I made no mention of politics nor political parties. This is an issue of competence and morals. Dodging the topic to instead make a personal attack is of no merit whatsoever.

No, what you did is you used the topic for your post to imply that Colorado was being dishonest when your topic is "Colorado Switches To Honest COVID-19 Death Count, Death Toll Drops 31%" and this included you using the wrong stat (31%) which you yourself have admitted.

 

So how about this...I think ***you*** were being dishonest with your stat count in the topic because you saw the higher number and hoped nobody would challenge you on it. Go ahead, tell me it was a mistake on your part and then we can go down the natural path where that is gonna take us which will be...maybe Colorado was not being dishonest and they were making a mistake (in your eyes and that is still HIGHLY debatable) and they have corrected themselves (kind of like you...right?) I think your post topic was authored with the intent of sparking political debate in a scientific forum (job done by the way). Why use the word dishonest which the very definition is: behaving or prone to behave in an untrustworthy or fraudulent way

 

So...did you make a mistake or were you being dishonest? And if neither one of those was your intent and you stand by that topic and its phrasing then you now have the burden of proving that Colorado was INTENTIONALLY miscounting numbers and being fraudulent to deceive you....since your accusation is of being "dishonest". (which is what you were saying when you laid it out that "Colorado switches to Honest Covid-19 Death Count".)  Go ahead Alex, since we all do know the political climate and what side of the fence your topic just happens to support..we all await your findings to back up your accusations that the Colorado Medical System was INTENTIONALLY fraudulent with the purpose to deceive...hell we are all waiting with baited breathe. 

 

 

[Solinvictus]

Well, regardless, is it not clear that the American Government was ill prepared for such a stress on the medical institutions.

Must be because of all that security and warplanes they spend and the people that continue to support them.

 

No job, no health insurance. You see and this is especially for Americans 50 and older, after years of continual doing away of the many benefits that FDR ushered in (that they enjoyed while younger) which included workers' rights and more higher tax rates on the wealthy but also along with civil institutions and benefits for low income people, they have become 'twisted' by focusing blame on either 'China' or 'fake' pandemic rather than the very political parties that have lead us to such shortfalls in healthcare and workers rights.

 

Socialism will catch on and is already doing so. Ever thought about how nice it would be for workers to earn from the profits or have more of a say within management? Wow. Think about it.

 

Take away point is that, current capitalism in it's current form especially in the USA, has lead to such inability to take care of it's own people. Regardless what you think about the virus. If this is too difficult for your take in, consider disparities in healthcare, education, along with middle class incomes through history.

 

[yuyiinthesky]

38 minutes ago, BeltAndRoad said:

Sorry I stopped reading at "Taiwan is a Country" 

Well, Taiwan is a country, like it or not. 
There you go, earn another 50 cent by replying.

[BeltAndRoad]

2 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Well, Taiwan is a country, like it or not. 
There you go, earn another 50 cent by replying.

Why didn't you include the second line of my post? 

[yuyiinthesky]

1 minute ago, BeltAndRoad said:

Why didn't you include the second line of my post? 

There you go, that was easy.

 

Your second line was not logic. As Taiwan is a country, assuming that in an article cannot make it ‘not true”.

 

Now get another 50 cent.

[Crazy Alex]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Please stop, your only embarrassing yourself and the Colorado conspiracy theorist

Wow, I didn't realize there was a Colorado conspiracy theorist in this thread. Who is it and what is the conspiracy theory?

[BeltAndRoad]

3 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

There you go, that was easy.

 

Your second line was not logic. As Taiwan is a country, assuming that in an article cannot make it ‘not true”.

 

Now get another 50 cent.

I have never suggested Taiwan is not a country as you have failed to imply.

Can you show me where and whom states Taiwan is a Country other than yourself of course.

[Crazy Alex]

45 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

No, what you did is you used the topic for your post to imply that Colorado was being dishonest when your topic is "Colorado Switches To Honest COVID-19 Death Count, Death Toll Drops 31%" and this included you using the wrong stat (31%) which you yourself have admitted.

Yep, I did the math wrong, as previously stated.

 

45 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

So how about this...I think ***you*** were being dishonest with your stat count in the topic because you saw the higher number and hoped nobody would challenge you on it. Go ahead, tell me it was a mistake on your part and then we can go down the natural path where that is gonna take us which will be...maybe Colorado was not being dishonest and they were making a mistake (in your eyes and that is still HIGHLY debatable) and they have corrected themselves (kind of like you...right?) I think your post topic was authored with the intent of sparking political debate in a scientific forum (job done by the way). Why use the word dishonest which the very definition is: behaving or prone to behave in an untrustworthy or fraudulent way

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion. I only ran one calculation- the wrong one, so there was no seeing a higher or lower number. Furthermore, I am not a state government and death statistics and reporting are not my profession. I would expect a state responsible for such a thing have the appropriate resources and be better at this than a random poster on TVF. Do you agree or disagree with that?

 

45 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

...did you make a mistake or were you being dishonest? And if neither one of those was your intent and you stand by that topic and its phrasing then you now have the burden of proving that Colorado was INTENTIONALLY miscounting numbers and being fraudulent to deceive you....since your accusation is of being "dishonest". (which is what you were saying when you laid it out that "Colorado switches to Honest Covid-19 Death Count".)  Go ahead Alex, since we all do know the political climate and what side of the fence your topic just happens to support..we all await your findings to back up your accusations that the Colorado Medical System was INTENTIONALLY fraudulent with the purpose to deceive...hell we are all waiting with baited breathe. 

 

 

 

Why are you asking that question? You have already decided what to believe. Anyway, asked and answered. And also as previously stated, Colorado is a state government who compiles data for a living. To say they somehow *accidentally* counted non-COVID-19 deaths as such is laughable.

 

I have yet to mention any political party or politics in this thread. It is people attacking me and angry for even bringing this up who have diverted into Trump and politics. Now, will you at least agree that Colorado is made a positive change to how they calculate COVID-19 deaths? Yes or no?