English teacher with poor pronunciation sparks online storm

[Pilotman]

57 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Many people fail to understand that Thai people are learning English as a second language and NOT first language.

 

It's perfectly normal not to speak perfect English as long as people can understand them.

 

I've known many foreigners who still can't speak perfect Thai after many years of studying Thai.

 

 

 

What nonsense.  if you set yourself up as a teacher of any language, then you should be close to, or at native speaker standard.  Airline pilots are required to be at ICAO Level 5 English to fly internationally.  They study hard, and often for years, to reach that standard as professionals.  Teachers should do the same, if they seek to be considered worthy and professional.  This lot here are barely level 2 by ICAO Standard, therefore not yet competent to speak the language with any degree of competence, let alone teach it. The wasted resource in Thailand are the many expat native English speakers, who would love to teach, but are forbidden by the stupid rules imposed by their visa conditions.  Wake up Thailand, the competent teachers are among you already. 

[DrTuner]

It's still 1000x better than the average English teacher in the sticks with "hello how are you" making up 100% of their vocabulary.

[richard_smith237]

57 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Many people fail to understand that Thai people are learning English as a second language and NOT first language.

 

It's perfectly normal not to speak perfect English as long as people can understand them.

 

I've known many foreigners who still can't speak perfect Thai after many years of studying Thai.

 

This is a fundamentally flawed apologist approach to the issue at hand, which is, someone teaching English who is unable to correctly articulate the language she is teaching.

 

This would be similar to a Maths teacher who unable execute simple division.

 

The response is juvenile and ill thought out. To use an analogy the response above is similar to providing a response to comments on a thread of poor driving standards when someone responds "I know some western drivers who are very poor" - the issue is merely deflected and not addressed.

 

The point here is that an English teacher cannot pronounce the words correctly. The underlying issue is it is likely she is 'connected', we've all seen this from almost every facet of working society in Thailand (and other countries) when someone under-qualified and under-skilled achieves a potion through nepotism over merit.

 

There are enough Thai teachers who do speak clear and concise English for this online learning. Its clear no one really cared.

 

When dealing with the issues associated with teaching English in underprivileged area's and up country schools one can understand the difficulty gaining access to quality English teachers either through cost or isolation, however, this is something quite different. It has happened through laziness.

 

---------

 

Time for an anecdote:

An Ex GF, TG flight attendant, excellent English with a slight Thai Accent had to attend 'English Class' as part of her Thai Airways yearly training. I received a phone call from her in the middle of the class, the standard of her instructors English was atrocious and my Ex had managed to find herself in a 'grammar standoff'.

The instructor was obviously wrong and became angry at the correction presented by my Ex. While on the phone the Instructor became more instant that he was correct, face had obviously taken over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dimitriv]

39 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

A Thai teacher should have 'good' pronunciation but one shouldn't expect her to have perfect pronunciation as a native speaker. Anyway, there are so many different English accents such as American, British, Australian so which one is considered 'good'?

 

 

 

It should be perfect. In my country English teachers studied in the UK for a number of years. A German teacher studied and lived for 20 years in Germany, and became a teacher when he came back. Our French teacher studied in France etc.

 

There is no excuse for the example we saw above.

 

Most Thai teachers have probably never been out of the country for a day. But that is still no excuse. She should not teach children.

 

 

[pineapple01]

Love to hear her explain why its not Bill the Conqueror of 1066 fame when his name was William. Confusing language to learn.

[EVENKEEL]

What the plomem is??

[Lunchbob]

The problem is deeper than her poor pronunciation (which is very poor and shows a lack of basic understanding of phonemes). The deeper problem is she does not know how to teach.

 

She is trying to give them 1 or 2 words by speaking 50 or 60 they don't understand to begin with. Wacko.

[Bob A Kneale]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

I suggest that she is indicative of the average teachers ability, and completely explains the poor English capability of students here.   

...aided so often by the equally poor English-teaching (and English-speaking) ability of some native-English "teachers" bumming around in Thailand!

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

To this day missus still speaks of Sa Pag Het Tee Why

It's because Thai language has implied vowels between consonants, and some consonants get repeated in a word.

They just add the implied vowels into the English consonants and get Sa-pag-het-tee.

If you learn to read Thai what they are doing becomes entirely understandable.

The teacher also had a problem differentiating 'R's and 'L's, would assume her first language Laos as they don't use 'R's much.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Bob A Kneale said:

...aided so often by the equally poor English-teaching (and English-speaking) ability of some native-English "teachers" bumming around in Thailand!

Any native speaking English teacher can teach any Thai student just by speaking, IF they speak correct English. Teaching grammar is a different story and best to be left to those with skills.

[faraday]

Waiting for a response from POTY...

 

 

[BritManToo]

37 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

It's an awful lesson not just because of the consistent mispronunciation and grammar errors but also the terrible teaching method. Instructions are unclear and there's absolutely no context to the language she's using. She just seems to be freestyling it. If this is how Thai students are taught no wonder their English skills are so low.

Let's assume she is the best Thai 'English teacher' they could find.

 

My pal is a retired English teacher, taught English in Northern Thai high schools for 30 years, can't speak one word of English, either I speak Thai, or we get by with gestures.

 

My daughter failed English in Matayom 3 (age 15) because the English teacher was upset by my kids perfect English. Went to the school to shout at the teacher, had to shout in Thai as she couldn't speak one word of English either.

 

My son (age 8 ) gets very low marks for English in school, he says the English teacher is so bad, he can't be bothered to speak to him. Can't say I blame him.

Edited May 19, 2020 by BritManToo

[n00dle]

31 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

 Americans do have accents. My parents were born in Brooklyn, I New Jersey. We sound a tad different. I have many southern and Texas friends, where I lived for 30 years. They have a drawl to their speaking, an accent, while my 4 children that were born in Texas speak like me, and my ex,also from New Jersey, with no accent. Everyone I've ever known from the northeast besides New York and Boston sounds like I do. I don't know what you mean by myself having an accent. I was hired to speak at an English school here because I don't have an accent, but am a native English speaker. They have one other from Tennessee that speaks like i do, 3 from Cameroon that sound like those from England, because they were taught in Africa by  a teacher from England, and one that is half Indian and half English, and sounds like both in his accent. If you say a native English speaking person has an accent, that IS the accent, correct English, by pronunciation. So I guess I do have an accent.

 

This dogs breakfast of ignorance, ethnocentricity and poor paragraphing and organization amuses me greatly.

 

You may have the accent they desire, it does not mean you have no accent.

 

Claiming you have no accent because the people who hired you in thailand told you so is truly funny.

 

 

 

 

[Ayemanomad]

1 hour ago, trainman34014 said:

Auditioned by who; someone who can do no better than her no doubt ?  When it comes to English they need proper Native speaking Teachers as their own Thai Teachers are near useless !

I agree 110%. However, the powers that be do not seem prepared to pay sufficient wages to attract native English speakers, which IMHO is very shortsighted. Until they do, there will be loads of teachers like her failing the students in Thailand.

 

I had to phone a customer service centre in Bangkok yesterday for a large multinational corporation, selecting English on their answering system. Eventually getting through to a young lady who asked for my email address, which I gave her twice. I never received the email. Her English was quite frankly abysmal.

 

 

[jayboy]

16 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Some Americans do have accents. My parents were born in Brooklyn, I New Jersey. We sound a tad different. I have many southern and Texas friends, where I lived for 30 years. They have a drawl to their speaking, an accent, while my 4 children that were born in Texas speak like me, and my ex,also from New Jersey, with no accent. Everyone I've ever known from the northeast besides New York and Boston sounds like I do. I don't know what you mean by myself having an accent. I was hired to speak at an English school here because I don't have an accent, but am a native English speaker. They have one other from Tennessee that speaks like i do, 3 from Cameroon that sound like those from England, because they were taught in Africa by  a teacher from England, and one that is half Indian and half English, and sounds like both in his accent. If you say a native English speaking person has an accent, that IS the accent, correct English, by pronunciation. So I guess I do have an accent.

All Americans have accents.In fact all speakers of English have accents.There are no "correct" accents although there have ben in the past preferred or elite accents which tended to be the accents of the upper classes.Thus in the US the Boston Brahmin and New England accents were in this category. For those with an interest check on Youtube how FDR and his wife Eleanor spoke.

 

In the UK the equivalent was Received English or Oxford English.This wasn't really spoken only by the posh rich but by most of the educated upper middle class.There were Scottish and Irish versions of Received English which were equally acceptable.In the UK this posh language (the old style BBC Home Service announcers for example) has almost completely gone and even Prince William and Prince Harry speak with a pronounced Estuary (mock Cockney) accent.Actually even Received English was of comparatively recent origin and came into being in the nineteenth century when the sons of the upper middle/upper classes from all over the country were sent to boarding schools like Eton and Harrow.Before that, great regional aristocrats and landowners. spoke with Yorkshire,Lancashire,Welsh accents etc. 

 

I digress.Here in Thailand the standard of English teaching by Thai nationals in Thai schools is generally abysmal.There are many reasons for this but I would draw attention to just one - why would a decent speaker of English choose the teaching profession when - given the generally poor standard of English in Thailand - there are so many other better paid opportunities? Ideally the vast majority of English speakers should be native speakers but accents do matter.There can be a wide variety but extreme and semi undecipherable accents should be excluded.I'm personally aware of Indian and Filipino teachers of English who struggle to be understood.I'm also aware of Filipino teachers who speak excellently.

[MartinL]

15 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

It should be perfect. In my country English teachers studied in the UK for a number of years. A German teacher studied and lived for 20 years in Germany, and became a teacher when he came back. Our French teacher studied in France etc.

 

There is no excuse for the example we saw above.

 

Most Thai teachers have probably never been out of the country for a day. But that is still no excuse. She should not teach children.

 

 

My wife's childhood friend is a Thai-trained English teacher who's lived in Canada for 30+ years and speak very good idiomatic English with a mixed Thai/Canadian accent. Her attitudes seem more Canadian than Thai now. She's also taught in Canadian schools. She prefers to speak English now and has lost much of her Thai through lack of use, although her Thai's improving steadily. She and my wife converse about 60/40% English and Thai. 

 

She returned to Thailand following the death of her husband but has been unable to find a permanent job as an English teacher in Thailand, maybe because of her age but also, she says (but I have no proof of this) because she speaks better English than those interviewing her. She's had temporary employment and private students which give her a reasonable income but no full-time job

 

Signs are that she'll go back to Canada when she can to be with her children, never to return to Thailand.

[Inn Between]

Many members of The Committee for Lower Standards are rallying behind this Thai "English" teacher in hope they can keep her in this key education position.  

 

If we want to teach people to cook, wouldn't we hire a chef that knows proper methods and has proven ability to do the job? If we want people to teach others to drive, shouldn't they know very well the rules of the road and the handling of a car? If we want our kids to learn Karate, would we send them to someone who only holds a yellow belt? The answers are clear, so why shouldn't Thai students have proper instruction in English language, especially when there are millions of people who are very qualified? It seems there are too many Thais in key positions that will never accept that any person of any other nationality could possibly do anything better than a Thai. 

 

They may never need English again for the reasons of tourism, anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter.   

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Inn Between said:

f we want to teach people to cook, wouldn't we hire a chef that knows proper methods and has proven ability to do the job? If we want people to teach others to drive, shouldn't they know very well the rules of the road and the handling of a car? If we want our kids to learn Karate, would we send them to someone who only holds a yellow belt? The answers are clear, so why shouldn't Thai students have proper instruction in English language, especially when there are millions of people who are very qualified? It seems there are too many Thais in key positions that will never accept that any person of any other nationality could possibly do anything better than a Thai. 

That's because 'English teaching' posts are often given to Thais with influential friends/relatives/lovers.

Not because of their abilities in the classroom.

 

Good luck getting a government officials 'mia noi' removed due to incompetence.

(although in this instance that scenario is unlikely, her dad's probably a general)

Edited May 19, 2020 by BritManToo

[WineOh]

just watched all the videos.

good luck without Native english teachers, Thailand.

Your English levels will never progress beyond embarrassing.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, n00dle said:

 

This dogs breakfast of ignorance, ethnocentricity and poor paragraphing and organization amuses me greatly.

 

You may have the accent they desire, it does not mean you have no accent.

 

Claiming you have no accent because the people who hired you in thailand told you so is truly funny.

 

 

 

 

No ignorance at all. I stated Americans do have accents, as I do,but I speak perfect English and that's why I was asked to teach. I never said my English was better than anyone's , just that it's correct English. Ethnocentricity means my culture is better than another's. I never said that either. Do not correct one's grammar or paragraphing if you don't understand this isn't an English lesson. You separating three sentences shows incorrect grammar. My typing in one somewhat long paragraph doesn't.

[uncleP]

I taught at an "elite" school a few years back where we had a couple of girls who gained master's level esl degrees in the USA and UK. The girls were modern and excellent  linguists, however,  they were chased out within 6 months by the old guard who were worried about their  own positions. Eg 16 year olds made to translate 30 pages of Thai to English. Nothing was checked and all were given maximum Mark's. I tried to explain that to translate  this amount was a specialist job in itself and far beyond the scope of non specialist school children . I asked why they did not get them to translate a paragraph  and check everything? As you could actually  teach and help the children. This idea was net with roars of  derision and with me being told that I had no idea what I was talking about! Something I reminded them of when I was requested to write their  yearly exams ????

[n00dle]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

No ignorance at all. I stated Americans do have accents, as I do,but I speak perfect English and that's why I was asked to teach. I never said my English was better than anyone's , just that it's correct English. Ethnocentricity means my culture is better than another's. I never said that either. Do not correct one's grammar or paragraphing if you don't understand this isn't an English lesson. You separating three sentences shows incorrect grammar. My typing in one somewhat long paragraph doesn't.

Terms like proper, perfect, and correct suggest superiority do they not?

 

Give it up Fred, your blind spot makes you dull.

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

All Americans have accents.In fact all speakers of English have accents.There are no "correct" accents although there have ben in the past preferred or elite accents which tended to be the accents of the upper classes.Thus in the US the Boston Brahmin and New England accents were in this category. For those with an interest check on Youtube how FDR and his wife Eleanor spoke.

 

In the UK the equivalent was Received English or Oxford English.This wasn't really spoken only by the posh rich but by most of the educated upper middle class.There were Scottish and Irish versions of Received English which were equally acceptable.In the UK this posh language (the old style BBC Home Service announcers for example) has almost completely gone and even Prince William and Prince Harry speak with a pronounced Estuary (mock Cockney) accent.Actually even Received English was of comparatively recent origin and came into being in the nineteenth century when the sons of the upper middle/upper classes from all over the country were sent to boarding schools like Eton and Harrow.Before that, great regional aristocrats and landowners. spoke with Yorkshire,Lancashire,Welsh accents etc. 

 

I digress.Here in Thailand the standard of English teaching by Thai nationals in Thai schools is generally abysmal.There are many reasons for this but I would draw attention to just one - why would a decent speaker of English choose the teaching profession when - given the generally poor standard of English in Thailand - there are so many other better paid opportunities? Ideally the vast majority of English speakers should be native speakers but accents do matter.There can be a wide variety but extreme and semi undecipherable accents should be excluded.I'm personally aware of Indian and Filipino teachers of English who struggle to be understood.I'm also aware of Filipino teachers who speak excellently.

I didn't mean that my accent (yes,I do have an American one) was correct, but that my English pronunciation is correct, and that is why I'm wanted at this school. The others there have strong accents and it confuses the students .They ask me which is the correct pronunciation of words because I sound different than the others. I tell them I speak native English and the school owner agrees.

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

I came upon a late night emission teaching German.

Is there a hidden meaning in here somewhere?

[fredwiggy]

Just now, n00dle said:

Terms like proper, perfect, and correct suggest superiority do they not?

 

Give it up Fred, your blind spot makes you dull.

No, they suggest the proper pronunciation, something I didn't invent but was taught. Not good to assume.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I didn't mean that my accent (yes,I do have an American one) was correct, but that my English pronunciation is correct,

Doesn't matter, my kids are entirely happy understanding English spoken by Brits or Americans with regional accents.

They laughed their heads off at the Thai English teacher video in this thread ....... sadly they couldn't see it yesterday on the DLTV app because it didn't work ........ DLTV app didn't work today either.

Edited May 19, 2020 by BritManToo

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, uncleP said:

I taught at an "elite" school a few years back where we had a couple of girls who gained master's level esl degrees in the USA and UK. The girls were modern and excellent  linguists, however,  they were chased out within 6 months by the old guard who were worried about their  own positions. Eg 16 year olds made to translate 30 pages of Thai to English. Nothing was checked and all were given maximum Mark's. I tried to explain that to translate  this amount was a specialist job in itself and far beyond the scope of non specialist school children . I asked why they did not get them to translate a paragraph  and check everything? As you could actually  teach and help the children. This idea was net with roars of  derision and with me being told that I had no idea what I was talking about! Something I reminded them of when I was requested to write their  yearly exams ????

A twist of that some 10 years back, sons' uni buddy had to submit his thesis in Thai and English. He took the Thai version to a 'translation shop' down a soi opposite Pantip Plaza, Bkk on hard copy and on a thumb drive. And paid the quite expensive fee. My family lived at that time in a condo quite nearby.

 

A few days later he got an e-mail, with the English translation, and he came to our condo and asked me to look at the English, It was quite a mess. 

 

My son opened Google translate and they put the Thai version in the Thai box, the English translation was 100% same as had been given to sons' buddy by the trans, shop.

 

Son, his buddy (nice kid) and myself spent half a day changing the Google version to somewhere near correct English. He submitted it and passed. 

[Bob A Kneale]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

American is considered native  speaking English and that's why some schools look to hire those from America, who don't have an accent. All English speaking "accents" are good, and a Thai can learn from all of them, but to learn the correct pronunciation, they have to use American native speakers.

"All English speaking "accents" are good, and a Thai can learn from all of them..."

Have you ever heard a proper Liverpudlian, Mancunian or Yorkshire accent, a real N.E. (Geordie) accent, a strong London accent?  I doubt it because if you had you wouldn't say that!

 

"...but to learn the correct pronunciation, they have to use American native speakers".

What?  Since when?   Why do they have to use American native [sic] speakers?  Some Americans have the worst possible "English" accents for teaching the English language.

What's an "American native speaker", by the way?   Do you mean "native American speaker"?!

Edited May 19, 2020 by Bob A Kneale

[bluesofa]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

A twist of that some 10 years back, sons' uni buddy had to submit his thesis in Thai and English. He took the Thai version to a 'translation shop' down a soi opposite Pantip Plaza, Bkk on hard copy and on a thumb drive. And paid the quite expensive fee. My family lived at that time in a condo quite nearby.

 

A few days later he got an e-mail, with the English translation, and he came to our condo and asked me to look at the English, It was quite a mess. 

 

My son opened Google translate and they put the Thai version in the Thai box, the English translation was 100% same as had been given to sons' buddy by the trans, shop.

 

Son, his buddy (nice kid) and myself spent half a day changing the Google version to somewhere near correct English. He submitted it and passed. 

Hmm, I thought you were going to say he failed due to the English version not being 100% the same as the Google translation, which the teacher referred to when marking it.

 

[Traubert]

After spending six weeks going round my 12 year olds class UN=teaching the kids the terrible 'Sup' I am of the opinion that English should be taught by those who speak it. That doesn't include Colonials. We British are taught 'Hello.'