UK says PM's adviser did not break lockdown rules with 400 km drive

[tribalfusion001]

From The Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/24/dominic-cummings-crisis-18-unanswered-questions/

 

Yet several questions still need to be fully answered:

1. What did the Prime Minister know about Dominic Cummings’ trip to Durham?
2. Was he informed of the police investigating the matter?
3. Briefings have suggested that officials in Downing Street were previously aware of the trip. Was it sanctioned by Boris Johnson?
4. Did Dominic Cummings stop at a service station? His wife had symptoms of coronavirus at the time so would potentially have put civilians at risk if so. It seems likely that the couple would have stopped given that the 260-mile journey would have taken at least four hours and they had their four-year-old son with them in the car.
5. In the course of his journeys between Durham and London did Mr Cummings or his wife come into contact with other members of the public?
6. Why did Number 10 keep quiet about Mr Cummings’ trip to Durham for eight weeks?
7. Did the Prime Minister have any role in the decision not to disclose the incident?
8. Did Mr Cummings visit Houghall Woods near his family’s Durham property on April 19? Onlookers say that spotted the adviser at the beauty spot five days after being photographed back at work in Downing Street. If the account is correct this means Mr Cummings broke lockdown rules more than once.
9. This raises the question: how many times did the adviser visit the north east?
10. Why could Mr Cummings and his wife not arrange childcare in London?
11. Mr Cummings’ brother-in-law lives nearby – why did Mr Cummings not ask his for help with childcare?
12. Alternatively, could the aide's sister not have travelled to London to collect their son? 
13. Did Mr Cummings visit Barnard Castle, 30 miles from Durham, on April 12?
14. An eye-witness claims he was walking along the River Tees. Given that he developed his own symptoms after arriving in Durham, should he have been self-isolating at this point?
15. On what day did Mr Cummings fall ill and how long did he self isolate for?
16. Downing Street has challenged the statement of Durham police which states a family member of Mr Cummings’ was questioned by the force. Number 10 initially said that “at no stage” was the aide or his family spoken to by the police about this matter. Which account is true?
17. Deputy Chief Medical Officer Jenny Harries said being too ill to look after a small child was an “exceptional circumstance” on April 10 and she pointed to accessing family support. But Mr Cummings’ trip was almost two weeks before this advice was issued. What is his defence of this?
18. Last night Ms Harries also said that people should only travel with coronavirus to seek childcare if there is an “extreme” risk to life. Was this the case?

[3NUMBAS]

starmer and his labour loonys are not happy as they wanted some real muckraking ,but theyve been shut down fast

[3NUMBAS]

1 hour ago, tribalfusion001 said:

More fudging the issue from Boris. He can't dump him as he is the brains behind the bluffing. This will rumble on, it makes a mockery of the so called "lockdown".

the alternative of a labour gumment is so terrfying bojo will ride it out and get returned again and again

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

starmer and his labour loonys are not happy as they wanted some real muckraking ,but theyve been shut down fast

Hardly shut down, this is only just starting. Sooner or later he will go, or maybe both of them.

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the alternative of a labour gumment is so terrfying bojo will ride it out and get returned again and again

It's easy enough to replace a PM and Cummings is not well liked by conservative MPs. The grey suits forced Thatcher out, no one is indispensable.

[katana]

This whole fuss is just remainers' revenge for him getting Brexit done.

As though other politicians haven't done a lot worse in other matters and not kept their jobs.

[tribalfusion001]

11 minutes ago, katana said:

This whole fuss is just remainers' revenge for him getting Brexit done.

As though other politicians haven't done a lot worse in other matters and not kept their jobs.

The Telegraph and Daily Mail are pro brexit papers, both want Cummings out. It's about government credibility and they have lost it. Nigel Farage is putting out videos about the migrants crossing the channel and no one in the government is doing anything about it.

 

This current government is a shambles, totally unprepared for covid-19, bumbled and fumbled along with no plan. To make matters worse the guy whose modelling for 500,000 deaths broke the lockdown, then resigned and now Cummings has been caught out breaking it.

 

Brexit is far from done.

Edited May 24, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[evadgib]

Not everyone is taking it seriously ????

 

[jimmyswale]

[sungod]

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I said before that Cummings' sister could have used the 'special circumstances' excuse to come to London and collect the child. That was based upon memory and having now checked the guidance I admit was wrong on that point .

 

 

 

 

Apology accepted, would have been respectful to acknowledge it on my post though.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Posted only once and it's not down to you to decide if Cummings should ask his sister to come to London or not 

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020

Restrictions on movement

 During the emergency period, no person may leave [F1or be outside of] the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

As per Deputy Chief Medical Officer's Dr Wakefield statment in March

 For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 F7, to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6

Why are you omitting one of the following sentences, that clearly state how he should have handled? According to the law this was clearly not a reasonable excuse.

 

You're defending the indefensible, just admit you don't care in Cummings' case.

[Phil McCaverty]

6 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

• Why could Mr Cummings and his wife not arrange childcare in London?
• Mr Cummings’ brother-in-law lives nearby – why did Mr Cummings not ask his for help with childcare?

These are the questions that really need answering.

 

The mainstay of Johnson's defence of Cummings yesterday was that it was impossible for him to get care for his son in London so drove 260 miles to stay with his parents. It has already been admitted that the only care they needed to avail themselves of was for his sister and niece to place shopping at the door of the outbuilding they stayed in.

 

Many people in the same situation currently and use a variety of options. Order online, both supermarket orders and food from restaurants. A friend or neighbour does the shopping for them and leaves it at the door.

 

We're talking about a wealthy, middle class, London centric couple here, they couldn't get anyone to do the shopping for them? His wife's brother lives nearby, the grandees of Downing Street are well known for ordering their minions to perform a variety of personal tasks for them, Cummings is known for treating his inferiors like dirt and ruling by fear, he could have had an army of young researchers stood point at his door 24/7 had he so wished.

 

Sorry but having to travel to Durham in order to get his shopping delivered to his door really doesn't wash. Only a complete idiot would believe that tosh.

[vinny41]

50 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Why are you omitting one of the following sentences, that clearly state how he should have handled? According to the law this was clearly not a reasonable excuse.

 

You're defending the indefensible, just admit you don't care in Cummings' case.

The reasonable excuses listed in Regulation 6 of the coronavirus Health Protection Regulations for England, as they stood at the time, are inclusive, not exclusive. The sole issue in the case of Mr Cummings is whether what he and his wife did, in the circumstances as they existed when they drove to Co Durham, amounted to “a reasonable excuse”.That is a matter of opinion, not of law. Only a court can determine that: not a QC, nor Alastair Campbell, nor Uncle Tom Cobbleigh

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/05/24/letters-law-behaviour-dominic-cummings-going-durham/

[Opl]

reasonable excuse : countryside 

[Phil McCaverty]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The reasonable excuses listed in Regulation 6 of the coronavirus Health Protection Regulations for England, as they stood at the time, are inclusive, not exclusive. The sole issue in the case of Mr Cummings is whether what he and his wife did, in the circumstances as they existed when they drove to Co Durham, amounted to “a reasonable excuse”.That is a matter of opinion, not of law. Only a court can determine that: not a QC, nor Alastair Campbell, nor Uncle Tom Cobbleigh

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/05/24/letters-law-behaviour-dominic-cummings-going-durham/

See my post #373. No sane person could regard the excuse the PM put forward as reasonable.

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

See my post #373. No sane person could regard the excuse the PM put forward as reasonable.

That's your opinion and thats fine, other people disagree with you and that's fine as well

[Phil McCaverty]

Just now, vinny41 said:

That's your opinion and thats fine, other people disagree with you and that's fine as well

No that's not my opinion I stated facts in my post #373. Inarguable facts.

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

No that's not my opinion I stated facts in my post #373. Inarguable facts.

And I don't think you facts would stand up in a Court of Law

[Phil McCaverty]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And I don't think you facts would stand up in a Court of Law

They most certainly would. All the facts I quoted are a matter of public record, mostly given in Downing Street statements or the PM himself.

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Phil McCaverty said:

They most certainly would. All the facts I quoted are a matter of public record, mostly given in Downing Street statements or the PM himself.

And I disagree wth you and there are a number of other people that disagree with you

When people want trial and execution by a media witchhunt there a reason and that reason is the facts wouldn't stand up in  a Law Court

[baansgr]

The same lefty green remainers that shout how wrong the lockdowns are and abuse it themselves, are now up in arms about him doing exactly what they agree with...always funny

[Phil McCaverty]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

And I disagree wth you and there are a number of other people that disagree with you

When people want trial and execution by a media witchhunt there a reason and that reason is the facts wouldn't stand up in  a Law Court

The facts I stated would stand up in law, as I stated. Don't argue about opinions, argue about the facts I stated.

 

The public has a right to ask questions and demand answers on this occasion. Thousands of families in the UK have been in similar circumstances. Did they break the guidelines, the guidelines that Cummings himself formulated? Those people are entitled to know why Cummings was subjected to different guidelines to them. They won't allow this travesty to be swept under the carpet.

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

The facts I stated would stand up in law, as I stated. Don't argue about opinions, argue about the facts I stated.

 

The public has a right to ask questions and demand answers on this occasion. Thousands of families in the UK have been in similar circumstances. Did they break the guidelines, the guidelines that Cummings himself formulated? Those people are entitled to know why Cummings was subjected to different guidelines to them. They won't allow this travesty to be swept under the carpet.

If your sure that your "facts would stand up in a court of law where you have to  prove Beyond a reasonable doubt

Why don't you contact the GoodLaw Project in the UK if they think that you have a good case they will set-up a crowdfund and take your case further

They didn't seem to concerned when Stephen Kinnock and his sister travelled to see their Dad  for his 78th birthday

Edited May 25, 2020 by vinny41
additional info

[Phil McCaverty]

Just now, vinny41 said:

If your sure that your "facts would stand up in a court of law where you have to  prove Beyond a reasonable doubt

Why don't you contact the GoodLaw Project in the UK if they think that you have a good case they will set-up a crowdfund and take your case further

I'm sure others will. I'm currently stuck in Thailand and have not been subjected to self isolation in the UK.

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Phil McCaverty said:

I'm sure others will. I'm currently stuck in Thailand and have not been subjected to self isolation in the UK.

If you not aware by now there are regular flights back to the UK each week

[Phil McCaverty]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If you not aware by now there are regular flights back to the UK each week

Now you're being pathetic. You don't know my circumstances. It's not the flight to the UK that's the problem, Its the return flight and the fact that elective surgery has currently been put on hold in the UK.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

Now you're being pathetic. You don't know my circumstances. It's not the flight to the UK that's the problem, Its the return flight and the fact that elective surgery has currently been put on hold in the UK.

Not being pathetic , You posted that you were stuck in Thailand and I offered advice based on your post that  if you weren't aware that there are flights back to the UK on a weekly basis 

[Phil McCaverty]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Not being pathetic , You posted that you were stuck in Thailand and I offered advice based on your post that  if you weren't aware that there are flights back to the UK on a weekly basis 

Everyone is aware of that, particularly someone who really needs to get back. You were just trying to be clever. If you want to be clever try arguing with the facts I stated, something, after several posts, you have completely failed to do. I wonder why?

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

Everyone is aware of that, particularly someone who really needs to get back. You were just trying to be clever. If you want to be clever try arguing with the facts I stated, something, after several posts, you have completely failed to do. I wonder why?

Not everyone is aware

A Reader Writes... My Struggle to Return to the UK From Thailand

My wife and myself have just got back from Thailand. There are many thousands more UK nationals unable to get a flight out of the country, and effectively stranded.

https://www.iaindale.com/articles/a-reader-writes-my-struggle-to-return-to-the-uk-from-thailand

[pineapple01]

 From his pic He doesn't look bright enough to convert English Miles to 400 Kilometres, hes even misplaced his Dentures.