UK COVID-19 death toll tops 47,000 as pressure heaps on PM Johnson

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post using "moron" language and the replies have been removed. 

[twocatsmac]

We have a fine collection of “hindsight politicians” here on TVF, ready to save the world, while sitting in their one room condos waiting for the bars to open.

[bkk6060]

Wow.  I had no idea.

If you check the per capita numbers the UK has 5 times the deaths of the US.

Unbelievable.

What in the heck have they been doing wrong? 

Just very terrible and disturbing.

Edited May 27, 2020 by bkk6060

[transam]

3 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

We have a fine collection of “hindsight politicians” here on TVF, ready to save the world, while sitting in their one room condos waiting for the bars to open.

Are you posh, got two rooms ...?   ????

[mrfill]

32 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The Dutch PM didn't visit his dying mother. Didn't feel he's an elite above the rules.

 

A British MP, and shadow Foreign Office Minister, visited his dad, a former British opposition leader and EU commissioner, and his mam, a former long term MEP, with his wife a former PM of Denmark, so they could sing happy birthday to his dad! Clearly, they feel above the law. He was shamed by his local Police Force. But he hasn't apologized, shown any remorse, been hounded by the press, had any negative comments from his Political Party Leader, or felt the wrath of public opinion. So it seems their self opinionated elitism is right.

 

2 more MP's also broke the lockdown without valid reasons, and I Welsh Assembly member did. Like their birthday singing colleague, non have apologized, shown any remorse or suffered public anger and rent-a-crowd protesters with placards.

 

I despair for the UK. 

They were all just testing out their eyesight, so it's all right.

[evadgib]

38 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The Dutch PM didn't visit his dying mother. Didn't feel he's an elite above the rules.

 

A British MP, and shadow Foreign Office Minister, visited his dad, a former British opposition leader and EU commissioner, and his mam, a former long term MEP, with his wife a former PM of Denmark, so they could sing happy birthday to his dad! Clearly, they feel above the law. He was shamed by his local Police Force. But he hasn't apologized, shown any remorse, been hounded by the press, had any negative comments from his Political Party Leader, or felt the wrath of public opinion. So it seems their self opinionated elitism is right.

 

2 more MP's also broke the lockdown without valid reasons, and I Welsh Assembly member did. Like their birthday singing colleague, non have apologized, shown any remorse or suffered public anger and rent-a-crowd protesters with placards.

 

I despair for the UK. 

This little snippet (or variations thereof) seems to be growing legs...

Quote

With Boris hospitalised & 1922 snakes plotting a coup, Brexit transition was to be extended -indefinitely #DominicCummings dashed to London to stop collapse of Brexit / protect Boris Sedwill / Baker + media launched massive media smear against #DominicCummings to end him

In plain English for non Brits this suggests the Tories were planning a coup while Boris was ill/incapacitated, and that Cummings was having none of it.

Edited May 27, 2020 by evadgib

[jimmyswale]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

This little snippet (or variations thereof) seems to be growing legs...

 

Link please and not some swivel eye loon blog. It's not all about Brexit you need to move on Boris got Brexit Done after all. Done and dusted.

Edited May 27, 2020 by jimmyswale

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think the UK includes all Covid and suspected Covid related. deaths reported. Some other nations are apparently a little bit selective on what they include.

 

One of the things, when this is over and real investigations begin, is an establishment of correct figures and uniform reporting. The study into why different countries experienced such different results will be mega. There are already plenty of hypothesis to validate or invalidate.

Happily Internet publishes a LOT of that, a very interesting technique, started about 20 years ago…. see https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/31/counting-coronavirus-different-countries-calculating-death-tolls/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8277465/How-does-Britains-coronavirus-death-toll-REALLY-compare-rest-world.html

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200401-coronavirus-why-death-and-mortality-rates-differ

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-the-challenge-of-counting-covid-19-deaths/

Countries with a narrow definition of COVID-19 cases.

	What countries count as a COVID-19 death		Share of excess deaths explained by COVID-19
Austria	Only deaths of patients who have died "from" COVID-19 and have been reported in the country’s epidemiological reporting system.		57%
Netherlands	Only deaths of patients who tested positive for the disease and died in hospitals.			48%
U.K.	Only deaths of patients who have died in the hospital and have been tested positive before. As of April 29, the figures also include deaths in all settings where there's a positive COVID-19 test, for example, in care homes.		71% (England and Wales)
France	Deaths of patients in hospitals and nursing homes "linked" to COVID-19. Until April 4, only deaths in hospitals were included.	86%
Italy	All deaths everywhere of patients who tested positive. Excess deaths data only available for Lombardy, which accounts for 53 percent of all deaths (as of April 15).	48%
Spain	All deaths everywhere of patients who tested positive.	67%

In Belgium anyone who dies of complications related to coronavirus is counted as a victim of the disease. So, in a country of 11,2 million, 8.656 deaths a couple of days ago, of which 4114 confirmed in the hospitals,  4450 in the care homes and 92 elsewhere. Is mentioned at every publication. As counted on this way, about the highest figure in the world per 1 million inhabitants. But by far the most honest. 

Netherlands, with 17,2 mln inh: mention ONLY those, who died in a hospital, after testing. Looking at the mortality statistics, compare with the average of 217-2019, and then the 8 weeks of 2020:12-19, see something "strange": an over deaths of 65-80 y 2703 + 80+y of 6272 = 8.975 "care-oldies"more passed away as the average over 2017-19, INCLUSIVE the flue-epidemic of winter 2017-18.  See https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/cijfers/detail/70895ned. Saves a LOT of pension payments, medical care bills and,., brings the inheritages a lot closer in time.

Edited May 27, 2020 by puipuitom

[evadgib]

11 minutes ago, jimmyswale said:

Link please and not some swivel eye loon blog. It's not all about Brexit you need to move on Boris got Brexit Done after all. Done and dusted.

The MSM cartel, coupled with this website's restrictive parameters render many non MSM links to the sin bin.

 

#mediascum & #scummedia are as good a place as any to start but rest assured the message is everywhere. There's a lot more detail too but I have kept this simple and to the point.

 

HTH

Edited May 27, 2020 by evadgib

[puipuitom]

50 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Johnson should have followed the examples set by Taiwan, South Korea and Japan - no lockdowns and all under control.

Happily Internet publishes a LOT of that, a very interesting technique, started about 20 years ago…. Helps a lot NOT to write so much nonsense…

 

South Korea's  aggressive “trace, test, treat” system has been credited with arresting a dramatic surge in cases in February, keeping infections below 11,000 and deaths at 255 - one of the lowest mortality rates in the world.

South Korea introduced what was considered one of the largest and best-organised epidemic control programs in the world, along with Taiwan, Vietnam, and Singapore. Different measures have been taken to screen the mass population for the virus, and isolate any infected people as well as trace and quarantine those who contacted them, without further lockdown. The rapid and extensive tests taken by South Korea have been judged successful in limiting the spread of the outbreak, without using the drastic measure of quarantining entire cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Korea

 

Taiwan, another global leader in its response to Covid-19, has recorded just six deaths since January

The virus was confirmed to have spread to Taiwan on 21 January 2020, from a 50-year-old woman who had been teaching in Wuhan, China.^[9] The Taiwanese government integrated data from the national health care system, immigration, and customs authorities to aid in the identification and response to the virus. Government efforts are coordinated through the National Health Command Center (NHCC) of the Taiwan Centers for Disease Control, established to aid in disaster management for epidemics following the 2004 SARS outbreak.

The Journal of the American Medical Association says Taiwan engaged in 124 discrete action items to prevent the spread of the disease, including early screening of flights from Mainland China and the tracking of individual cases.

Taiwan's handling of the outbreak has received international praise for its effectiveness in quarantining people. As of 16 May, 69,201 tests had been conducted in Taiwan with the vast majority not confirming a COVID-19 diagnosis.

Starting 19 March foreign nationals were barred from entering Taiwan, with some exceptions, such as those carrying out the term of a business contract, holding valid Alien Resident Certificates, diplomatic credentials, or other official documentation and special permits. All who are admitted into the country must complete a fourteen-day quarantine upon arrival. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Taiwan

 

The Japanese government has adopted various measures to prevent and mitigate the outbreak. On 30 January, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe established a national task force to oversee the government's response to the pandemic. On 27 February, he requested the temporary closure of all Japanese elementary, junior high, and high schools until early April. On 7 April, Abe proclaimed a one-month state of emergency for Tokyo and the prefectures of Kanagawa, Saitama, Chiba, Osaka, Hyogo, and Fukuoka. On 16 April, the declaration was extended to the rest of the country for an indefinite period.

Some medical professionals and media outlets have criticized the Japanese government for under-testing for COVID-19. Medical experts advising the government have instead relied on the country's pneumonia surveillance to identify and treat severely-affected patients.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japan

 

Those three nations were not asleep, did NOT have a PM who ridiculed the virus, had no happy-handshake program like Boris Johnson and no government leaders, who whipped their shoes to the corona measurements.

[puipuitom]

56 minutes ago, twocatsmac said:

We have a fine collection of “hindsight politicians” here on TVF, ready to save the world, while sitting in their one room condos waiting for the bars to open.

Not all oldies are dement..

[HerbyJFlash]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow.  I had no idea.

If you check the per capita numbers the UK has 5 times the deaths of the US.

Unbelievable.

What in the heck have they been doing wrong? 

Just very terrible and disturbing.

We waited for covid to blow over , then decided herd immunity was the best option , then realised it wasn’t , then enforced a weak and badly enforced locked down about a month too late, we also left the boarders open with no checks upon arrival , then decided two months later to introduce a quarantine with countless exemptions (starting June 8th for some reason). Then with still around 150 deaths a day decided to lift some of the lockdown , then people went to the beach and had picnics in parks in the thousands and we are now currently waiting for the second wave.

 

As the french say “voilà” or as my thai gf says , why England so f*** stupid?

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by HerbyJFlash

[puipuitom]

55 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow.  I had no idea.

If you check the per capita numbers the UK has 5 times the deaths of the US.

Unbelievable.

What in the heck have they been doing wrong? 

Just very terrible and disturbing.

The USA is just a few weeks behind the UK, and ... a LOT more of social distancing in quite some states. Compared with that Scotland is densely populated.

Just compare New York... ans you will be frightened.

[yogi100]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Given the statistics it would appear that neither of them is very good at their job.

The US and the UK have one very specific factor in common that have contributed to their statistics.

 

A factor that neither Trump nor Johnson can do anything about now as it's too late. And if it weren't too late their respective opposition parties would never have agreed to it anyway.

 

What would you consider that specific factor to be?

[hotandsticky]

11 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

The US and the UK have one very specific factor in common that have contributed to their statistics.

 

A factor that neither Trump nor Johnson can do anything about now as it's too late. And if it weren't too late their respective opposition parties would never have agreed to it anyway.

 

What would you consider that specific factor to be?

 

 

It wasn't the wearing of masks...................... but I 100% agree with the answer that I think you are looking for.

Edited May 27, 2020 by hotandsticky

[jimmyswale]

51 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The MSM cartel, coupled with this website's restrictive parameters render many non MSM links to the sin bin.

 

#mediascum & #scummedia are as good a place as any to start but rest assured the message is everywhere. There's a lot more detail too but I have kept this simple and to the point.

 

HTH

I'm with the mods on this not that we can discuss it more's the pity. I have seen the media-scum stuff but I need to wear a hazmat suit and have a good shower after reading it. So I'll pass on your kind invitation if you don't mind. ????

[evadgib]

29 minutes ago, jimmyswale said:

I'm with the mods on this not that we can discuss it more's the pity. I have seen the media-scum stuff but I need to wear a hazmat suit and have a good shower after reading it. So I'll pass on your kind invitation if you don't mind. ????

How else was I to answer a request for a "Link please and not some swivel eye loon blog"?

[candide]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think the UK includes all Covid and suspected Covid related. deaths reported. Some other nations are apparently a little bit selective on what they include.

 

One of the things, when this is over and real investigations begin, is an establishment of correct figures and uniform reporting. The study into why different countries experienced such different results will be mega. There are already plenty of hypothesis to validate or invalidate.

Actually, it can be cross-checked with the number of excess deaths, which is a more reliable indicator. Of course, not all excess deaths are due to CV, and other deaths types may also be reduced because of lockdowns. However, the order of magnitude should be comparable. A country with a much larger number of excess deaths than CV deaths is likely to have understated the latter.

This FT article (free to read) provides these numbers for a selection of countries.

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

Edited May 27, 2020 by candide

[Traubert]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yes, because the French President, Russian President/PM, Chinese President for Life, the Italian PM, the Brazilian President have all done sooooooo much better.

Cant knock Xi Jinping's numbers in the biggest population on earth.

 

84K+ and 80K recoveries.

 

Plus its Chinese President, Leader of the CPC and Head of the PLA  for life. thank you.

[Traubert]

2 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Yep, its laughable how people who hate a certain group of politicians are so eager to hang anything they can around their necks even if it involves putting horse-blinders on and ignoring how most other countries are fairing. Its a global pandemic, not every country is as transparent as western nations when it comes to testing and releasing data for the public etc... 

Seems sometimes that western nations pay a certain price for testing and accounting for the virus. 

They screwed it up - badly. Full stop.

[Mama Noodle]

1 minute ago, Traubert said:

They screwed it up - badly. Full stop.

 

Compelling. 

[jimmyswale]

22 minutes ago, evadgib said:

How else was I to answer a request for a "Link please and not some swivel eye loon blog"?

We're all adults here you would think we could make up our minds within the law. But hey ho I know where the door is...

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yes, because the French President, Russian President/PM, Chinese President for Life, the Italian PM, the Brazilian President have all done sooooooo much better.

As always..... Blame others..... But Brits are sooooo good in loss of reality! ????

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, transam said:

May I correct you, it's Great Britain or United Kingdom, your "Little Britain is a TV program.

 

As for having a pop at Boris, well he has got us out of the disastrous EU thing, which all thought would be a problem.

Do you come from that disastrous EU thingy.....?  ????

May I correct you:

The govt and almost half of the island behave like being part of a comedy. ????????????

[3NUMBAS]

8 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Given the statistics it would appear that neither of them is very good at their job.

the figure is for all UK countries !!

here we go with hindsite again ..they were acting on scientific info at any given moment in time from when it started..there is no prior experience or a manual for dealing with pandemics..

bojo is not responsible for scotland ireland and wales figures they have their own health ministers ,labour party for wales who cocked up

 

ethnics with underlying conditions like detroit where its 65% of infected ethnics make up a lot of the figures for uk

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

A factor that neither Trump nor Johnson can do anything about now as it's too late. And if it weren't too late their respective opposition parties would never have agreed to it anyway.

The difficulty with an in fact two-party democracy, in which both parties hate each other. Even when the P.M. / President would change scrap iron in gold, and rocks in diamonds, it would be rejected by the opposition as a propaganda stunt.

[EricTh]

It is 37,000 here. I think it's a typo.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Thailand only has 50 deaths and they are already paranoid.

Edited May 27, 2020 by EricTh

[jimmyswale]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

It is 37,000 here. I think it's a typo.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Thailand only has 50 deaths and they are already paranoid.

Paranoid of the wrath of the people not the virus. 

[White Christmas13]

10 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Both Johnson and Trump have done a lousy job in this emergency. The Cummings thing is way overblown....he's a senior person in the government ordinary laws don't apply to him as we see every day on all countries around the world. He caused no one any harm, so get over your selves and let him get on with his job.

Are you for real?

[White Christmas13]

5 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

We have a fine collection of “hindsight politicians” here on TVF, ready to save the world, while sitting in their one room condos waiting for the bars to open.

Just to inform you this is a international forum and I am sitting in my 3 bedroom

apartment and having some nice Australian Cabernet Merlot  

Edited May 27, 2020 by White Christmas13