Right to family life

[MagnumForce]

Like many others at the moment, I am on the visa amnesty until July 31. I have a family here and I was caught between my last long-term permission to stay, which was a Non-Imm ‘B’ extension that ended with the end of my contract in March, and my next permission to stay, which I had intended to be a Non-Imm ‘O’ visa based on marriage from a Thai consulate in Laos, but Covid-19 disrupted this.

I hope that one of the following will happen:

(a)    That this amnesty will be extended beyond July 31

(b)    if the amnesty is not extended, that I will be allowed to go to a Thai consulate in Laos to get a Non-Imm ‘O’ AND be allowed to return to Thailand as normal without any extra restrictions

(c)    if the amnesty is not extended, that I will be allowed to go into Laos at Nongkhai and re-enter Thailand immediately as normal on a visa exempt 30-day entry (second one this year) without any extra restrictions, which I         could then extend by 60 days based on marriage.

 

Ok, so many of us are in the same boat and hope for the same things.

 

My real question is not about what is going to happen because nobody knows yet, but what are our rights, as husbands/fathers of Thai family members, under:

the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16(3)

the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights Articles 17 and 23(1)

the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights Article 10(1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_family_life

 

Thailand has ratified all of these. One could say there is legal precedent in the case of Winata V Australia. Should we petition our embassies or the UNHRC for assistance in advance of July 31?

 

Perhaps I am being overly pessimistic, but I don't see any great love for foreigners with Thai families and the end of this amnesty could be used to really put a lot of us in a very difficult situation.

 

Finally, what are others planning to do in the case where (a), (b) or (c) above doesn’t work out for us as we would hope? Are you prepared to leave your wife/kids here and return to your own country for an indefinite period? Are you planning to bring your wife/kids home with you? Are you going to jump through all the possible extra hoops such as a medical certificate stating that you are Covid-19 free, Covid-19 insurance of ridiculous amounts, state quarantine for 14 days etc?

 

Many thanks.

 

Kind regards,

 

MF

[timendres]

7 minutes ago, MagnumForce said:

My real question is not about what is going to happen because nobody knows yet, but what are our rights, as husbands/fathers of Thai family members, under:

the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16(3)

the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights Articles 17 and 23(1)

the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights Article 10(1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_family_life

Seriously?

[ubonjoe]

If the amnesty is not extended you could apply or a 60 day extension to visit your wife or child shortley before July 31st unless you have already gotten one since your most recent entry to the country.

[steven100]

58 minutes ago, MagnumForce said:

but what are our rights, as husbands/fathers of Thai family members, under:

the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16(3)

the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights Articles 17 and 23(1)

the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights Article 10(1)

your joking right .....  get real and have another beer.

why don't you give the UN a call .... they should know

 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by steven100

[Maestro]

"Right to family life" does not give me the right live with my family unconditionally in any country of my choice.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[fredwiggy]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If the amnesty is not extended you could apply or a 60 day extension to visit your wife or child shortley before July 31st unless you have already gotten one since your most recent entry to the country.

I got that  60 day extension (first and only) in Sisaket because Laos closed. If no extended amnesty, what do I do then? I was due for a 90 day but couldn't because of the closed border.

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, MagnumForce said:

...My real question is not about what is going to happen because nobody knows yet, but what are our rights, as husbands/fathers of Thai family members, under:

the Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 16(3)

the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights Articles 17 and 23(1)

the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights Article 10(1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_family_life

 

Thailand has ratified all of these...

Are you quite sure that Thailand ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? The latest I remember reading about it, perhaps a year or two ago, is that Thailand signed this declaration but has not so far ratified it.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I got that  60 day extension (first and only) in Sisaket because Laos closed. If no extended amnesty, what do I do then? I was due for a 90 day but couldn't because of the closed border.

You would be expect to leave and re-enter the country for a new 90 day entry if possible.

If you cannot leave and re-enter the country the amnesty would probably of been extended.

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I got that  60 day extension (first and only) in Sisaket because Laos closed. If no extended amnesty, what do I do then? I was due for a 90 day but couldn't because of the closed border.

Put your trust in God.

In another week I'll be on the amnesty, I'm sure something will turn up before 31 July.

Edited June 9, 2020 by BritManToo

[johnray]

Probably pay the fine.

[MagnumForce]

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

Are you quite sure that Thailand ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? The latest I remember reading about it, perhaps a year or two ago, is that Thailand signed this declaration but has not so far ratified it.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/unmissionnewyork/en/relation/80917-Human-Rights.html#:~:text=Thailand was among the first,freedoms and basic human rights.&text=Moreover%2C the Plan incorporates the,(UPR) adopted by Thailand.

 

Apparently so, Maestro, and the other two mentioned. I do accept, however, that they may not always abide by these treaties or covenants such as we have seen in the news over the last few days regarding the disappearance of that young man in Cambodia. However, one would hope that as citizens of whatever nation we hail from, our nations may actually have the power to protect their own citizens, even though they live in Thailand. But one never knows, I suppose. 

 

And for those that think this is a joke...far from it. I, for one, do not want to be separated from my family, unwillingly, for one second. That is why I am exploring all of these options. Sorry if you think it is ridiculous of me to expect that the authorities here should abide by the terms of international agreements. I just thought that if more of us in this same boat acted in solidarity and contacted our respective embassies about this, that maybe we wouldn't be faced with what could be a very messy situation.

[pookondee]

37 minutes ago, MagnumForce said:

http://www.thaiembassy.org/unmissionnewyork/en/relation/80917-Human-Rights.html#:~:text=Thailand was among the first,freedoms and basic human rights.&text=Moreover%2C the Plan incorporates the,(UPR) adopted by Thailand.

 

Apparently so, Maestro, and the other two mentioned. I do accept, however, that they may not always abide by these treaties or covenants such as we have seen in the news over the last few days regarding the disappearance of that young man in Cambodia. However, one would hope that as citizens of whatever nation we hail from, our nations may actually have the power to protect their own citizens, even though they live in Thailand. But one never knows, I suppose. 

 

And for those that think this is a joke...far from it. I, for one, do not want to be separated from my family, unwillingly, for one second. That is why I am exploring all of these options. Sorry if you think it is ridiculous of me to expect that the authorities here should abide by the terms of international agreements. I just thought that if more of us in this same boat acted in solidarity and contacted our respective embassies about this, that maybe we wouldn't be faced with what could be a very messy situation.

I really do feel for people in your situation.

 

And im not sure why others are dissing you on this, since its an issue that many folks could be effected by, in regards to the need to do those out-ins/ border runs.

 

If the intention to cross a border and

re-enter (more or less instantly) for the purposes of a visa extension becomes problematic, then AFAICS

the Thai officials are going to have few choices with this:

 

a. Just ignore the problem completely, with the attitude of:

 "If you need to do a border bounce to stay in the country, you are either on the wrong visa, or abusing the system"

 

b. They will completely scrap the need to apply for visas and extensions from consulates outside of the country.

Surely this would not be so hard to do, 

just have people submit their applications to Chaengwattana, instead of having to run from country to country.

 

I'd like to think it would be (b) but with the armys track record towards foreigners

its more likely (a) will be the ticket.

 

Appealing on the grounds of the right for husband/wife/family to be together

is not much more than pleading on compassionate grounds, and i think everyone knows how compassionate the Thai army is towards foreigners. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by pookondee

[Keyser Soze666]

I honestly don't know how people like yourself get through life, day by day..I can honestly say in my 20 years here I have never met someone like yourself in real life. Utterly hysterical.

 

Here's an idea..have a beer and chill..?

[pookondee]

6 minutes ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

I honestly don't know how people like yourself get through life, day by day..I can honestly say in my 20 years here I have never met someone like yourself in real life. Utterly hysterical.

 

Here's an idea..have a beer and chill..?

You must be one of those high and mighty "elite visa" guys, right?

 

So, in your 20 years, you never had to do a border hop for visa purposes?

 

The guy just wants to secure a future with his wife and kids fgs

maybe its you who needs to chill.

[ChaiyaTH]

OP is clearly not aware that TH doesn't care about those declaration and International human rights.
Anyway, by that time you can do a border run or take some airplane, if not, it will be extended again. Case closed, next.

[JackThompson]

57 minutes ago, MagnumForce said:

And for those that think this is a joke...far from it. I, for one, do not want to be separated from my family, unwillingly, for one second. That is why I am exploring all of these options. Sorry if you think it is ridiculous of me to expect that the authorities here should abide by the terms of international agreements. I just thought that if more of us in this same boat acted in solidarity and contacted our respective embassies about this, that maybe we wouldn't be faced with what could be a very messy situation.

Solidarity here is tough. 

There are those that hate you as much as the IOs - especially if you are not as rich as them.

There are those who never had a problem, so think those of us who have are "making it up," or "making problems" - to spite doing everything by the book and being denied extensions - over and over and over again, on "unpublished" rules which change at each office and application-attempt.

 

I don't know if our embassies are worth a (bleep); international-press would be the only way to get any potential action on the corruption that prevents us obtaining extensions - and that still a slim-to-none chance. 

 

To stay, you'd probably need to use an agent to get an extension - my experience, anyway.  If not supporting a Thai and over 50, just go with retirement for 15K or less in Pattaya.  But if you support a Thai family and are under 50 (so can't qualify for retirement), they punish you with extra fees.

Edited June 9, 2020 by JackThompson

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, MagnumForce said:

And for those that think this is a joke...far from it. I, for one, do not want to be separated from my family, unwillingly, for one second. That is why I am exploring all of these options. Sorry if you think it is ridiculous of me to expect that the authorities here should abide by the terms of international agreements. I just thought that if more of us in this same boat acted in solidarity and contacted our respective embassies about this, that maybe we wouldn't be faced with what could be a very messy situation.

I feel sorry for you and i know by first hand experience that this situation is not easy

 

but

 

you can not blame anyone else than yourself for this situation and ask for embassies

international rights or whatever to your help

 

if really you wanted to be sure to not be separated from your family, why don't stay together before?

i mean you can stay in Thailand all year long with them with the right visa, or you and your family can stay in another country if you have professional duties or others obligations.

 

If it was more convenient for you to stay part time in Thailand and for your family to stay in Thailand when you are abroad, you and your family KNEW there is always a risk to be separated for few days, few weeks or few months

 

you can not blame the Thai goverment for YOUR past choices.

 

Just try to be patient, keep calm and hope, it should be only few weeks now to wait.

 

Best regards

Edited June 9, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[mr mr]

my current non o stamp ran out a few days ago. about 6 weeks ago i opened a thai bank account and put the 400k in.

 

i really did not want to put the money in but these are strange times we are living in. gambling that thailand and surrounding countries will have their act together in a few weeks isn't something i wanted to risk. 

 

good luck hope something works out for you. i would not count on any right to anything here. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by mr mr
sp

[Maestro]

35 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

OP is clearly not aware that TH doesn't care about those declaration and International human rights.
Anyway, by that time you can do a border run or take some airplane, if not, it will be extended again. Case closed, next.

 

Thailand does care, at least on paper. From the current Constitution of Thailand:

 

Quote

 

Section 4. Human dignity, rights, liberties and equality of the people shall be

protected.