Will Thai hospitals exchange patients data in an emergency?

[OneMoreFarang]

In the moment whenever I have an illness I go always to the same hospital.

One reason I do that is because they have all my details and medical records in their computers. So if one doctor wants to give me some medicine he/she can easily lookup if that might interfere with any medical condition and/or with any other medicine which I take.

 

Now it came to my mind: What would happen if I have an accident and can't talk and I am admitted to another hospital? If they look in my wallet they will find my name and a card from my regular hospital. Would they likely try to get my medical records from my regular hospital? And would my regular hospital give it to them?

 

This is currently just a theoretical question. But I wonder if it would make sense that I have a card in my wallet with info about my diabetes and maybe which medicine I take regularly. 

[scubascuba3]

I'd expect the health insurance company to check for undisclosed pre-existing conditions from other hospitals prior to agreeing to pay for treatment, as for the hospital someone else will know

Edited June 17, 2020 by scubascuba3

[uhuh]

They may,  or may not. 

In the case you describe probably not. If you are inpatient already, and you are moved to another hospital they usually do it (in this case, the hospital you are leaving will usually send the records and/or a referral letter to the second hospital). It's mostly talking over the phone from nurse to nurse,  not so much requesting medical records. 

 

It's a good idea to have a card with info like diabetes,  medication, pace maker...

 

 

[holy cow cm]

Normally it is doctor - patient info and information is privileged sealed. I would think you could have your doctor make a notation on your file that if something like that happened then you allow the hospital to hospital sharing of details. You just do not want anyone or outfit open privilege to see your private info, and that majorly includes insurance companies and the government not to have free access.

[OneMoreFarang]

27 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Normally it is doctor - patient info and information is privileged sealed. I would think you could have your doctor make a notation on your file that if something like that happened then you allow the hospital to hospital sharing of details. You just do not want anyone or outfit open privilege to see your private info, and that majorly includes insurance companies and the government not to have free access.

Thanks for your comment.

 

About the insurance companies: If anybody applies for a health insurance you allow the insurance company to check your health records anywhere. They need that to be able to check for preexisting conditions. As far as I know no insurance company will insure you without giving them that permission - which makes sense.

[Sheryl]

I have never succeeded in getting hospital to hospital transfer of patient information.

 

best to keep copies of essential records/info with you.

[Rotweiler]

I believe the OP question was the transfer of patient records from hospital to hospital (not insurance or anything else).

 

The answer is yes - if you or your immediate next of kin can give authorization such such a transfer.  That was my experience years ago (transfer from a hospital in Loei to the RAM CM)

[NancyL]

Hospitals will not disclose patient records without the written permission of the patient or next-of-kin if the patient is unable to give permission. 

 

Amazingly, this is true even within the private/gov't branch of gov't hospitals.  For example, the same doctors work at CM University's gov't hospital (Suan Dok) and also at the private section (Sripat Hospital), but there are separate records kept for each hospital and the doctor's can't access the records between hospitals for the same patient.  So if a patient decides to transfer from Suan Dok to Sripat to get quicker access for a procedure or service, he has to request that his medical file be transferred also.

[Speedo1968]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I have never succeeded in getting hospital to hospital transfer of patient information.

 

best to keep copies of essential records/info with you.

Agree 100% about keeping essential medical info with you whenever you go out.

I have multiple drug allergies including antibiotics, some drugs given in an emergency in the past for a spider bite caused serious side effects as they did not know what kind of spider bit me, etc.

I also have a DNR.

Some years ago I placed copies of these with my local govt hospital and a private one in Khon Kaen.

Both hospitals have honoured my requests following a serious stroke ( which I am lucky to have overcome ) and when antibiotics were required.

 

The list of drug allergies stating reason for past use and side effects ( updated ) and DNR are clearly typed out, they take up little more room than a multipage passport and are in a plastic bag ( like the ones hospital medication come in ).     With this are a local and KK hospital card.   

I carry these with me even if I go to the local exercise park or market.
A copy is also kept in plain view ( green cross symbol ) in my house and a friend is aware of this as I live alone.

 

I recently had a cataract operation and the meds they would normally give I was allergic to, the hospital  changed them but I still had a listed 'possible but rare' response to which there were no alternatives.

 

YES, carry info with you it will help yourself and others.

[OneMoreFarang]

Thanks for all your comments.

Next time I go to "my" hospital I will ask them if I can authorize them in general to do that or if I can authorize my girlfriend to get the data or maybe she can authorize that other hospitals get that in an emergency.

 

I will update this post with whatever I find out.

[lopburi3]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks for all your comments.

Next time I go to "my" hospital I will ask them if I can authorize them in general to do that or if I can authorize my girlfriend to get the data or maybe she can authorize that other hospitals get that in an emergency.

 

I will update this post with whatever I find out.

Failing that just ask for copies of your records and keep at home with GF - add new records as they occur.  Normally only takes day or two to get such a package printed out (even when many years).

[OneMoreFarang]

24 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Failing that just ask for copies of your records and keep at home with GF - add new records as they occur.  Normally only takes day or two to get such a package printed out (even when many years).

Thanks, I did that years ago with another hospital. They charged me 500B and I received a lot more than I expected.

I guess these days I will get a CD or DVD. That makes it easier for everybody.

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I guess these days I will get a CD or DVD. That makes it easier for everybody.

Not in my experience at Vejthani and Bangkok Hospital within the last several years - reams of paper.  Last request was full operation paperwork that insurance requested - was free when insurance mentioned.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Not in my experience at Vejthani and Bangkok Hospital within the last several years - reams of paper.  Last request was full operation paperwork that insurance requested - was free when insurance mentioned.

And then? Scan it all and send it electronically to the insurance? ???? 

[lopburi3]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And then? Scan it all and send it electronically to the insurance? ???? 

Believe they were doing a fraud check so wanted more than the normal paperwork (which had already been sent).  Believe I had a total of about 48 pages which I divided into two FaxZero transmissions after scanning (insurance online system only allows 10 pages per claim).

[stouricks]

9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'd expect the health insurance company to check for undisclosed pre-existing conditions from other hospitals prior to agreeing to pay for treatment, as for the hospital someone else will know

Do the hospitals and insurance companies then have a central database with details of ALL their patients so that the insurance companies can check ALL hospitals for pre-existing conditions/previous treatment. I doubt it.

[uhuh]

10 hours ago, NancyL said:

Hospitals will not disclose patient records without the written permission of the patient or next-of-kin if the patient is unable to give permission.

In theory. 

[uhuh]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, I did that years ago with another hospital. They charged me 500B and I received a lot more than I expected.

I guess these days I will get a CD or DVD. That makes it easier for everybody.

No. 

It's paper. 

Imaging is on CDs, which is worse: a paper,  you can fax. A CD needs small mail (neither the issuing hospital nor the receiving hospital or insurance know how to handle FTP, Dropbox, whatever). And once arrived,  it usually turns out that the receiving side cannot open the CD/doesn't have the necessary software/doesn't have the drivers/cannot be bothered to learn how to handle all this...

[uhuh]

4 hours ago, stouricks said:

Do the hospitals and insurance companies then have a central database with details of ALL their patients so that the insurance companies can check ALL hospitals for pre-existing conditions/previous treatment. I doubt it.

No.

 

But they are very good at figuring out things if it's about big money. 

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, stouricks said:

Do the hospitals and insurance companies then have a central database with details of ALL their patients so that the insurance companies can check ALL hospitals for pre-existing conditions/previous treatment. I doubt it.

I've heard of reports of them checking hospitals, also just because you may not be aware of a pre-existing condition it doesn't mean its covered

[OneMoreFarang]

10 hours ago, stouricks said:

Do the hospitals and insurance companies then have a central database with details of ALL their patients so that the insurance companies can check ALL hospitals for pre-existing conditions/previous treatment. I doubt it.

Insurance companies start with information which the patient (you) put in the application form. Where and when did you visit which doctor. When the applicant signs the insurance application form that gives the insurance the right to ask for any medical records. And that's what they do - in case it gets expensive.

Insurance companies don't follow up all this information when a person applies. But if maybe a year or two later some big bill arrives about an alignment which might have a preexisting condition then they will dig. And in this computerized world they will likely find.

[Speedo1968]

What happens if you die in hospital before from treatment from an unknown preexisting condition ?

I mean that the unknown condition made you susceptible to the treatment they gave.

For me I am very allergic to many meds especially antibiotics ( yes they could give a skin test before I suppose ), those known of are in writing.

 

I was following a spider bite (which I couldn't see but the doctor guessed from my symptoms and finally found the bite mark ) given a jab that was supposed to suppress symptoms.    They asked if I had the medication before, no I hadn't, the nurse gave the jab and walked away due to busy outpatients.
A few minutes later I started to loose all feeling in my legs, I shouted and shouted for a nurse but no one came as a child was crying loudly outside.

Eventually the nurse came back and called the doctor who had to give an antidote.    By then permanent damage had already been done to my feet ( curled toes ). 

Had I been left longer it would have affected my breathing etc.     Is that an unknown preexisting condition ?

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Speedo1968 said:

What happens if you die in hospital before from treatment from an unknown preexisting condition ?

I mean that the unknown condition made you susceptible to the treatment they gave.

For me I am very allergic to many meds especially antibiotics ( yes they could give a skin test before I suppose ), those known of are in writing.

 

I was following a spider bite (which I couldn't see but the doctor guessed from my symptoms and finally found the bite mark ) given a jab that was supposed to suppress symptoms.    They asked if I had the medication before, no I hadn't, the nurse gave the jab and walked away due to busy outpatients.
A few minutes later I started to loose all feeling in my legs, I shouted and shouted for a nurse but no one came as a child was crying loudly outside.

Eventually the nurse came back and called the doctor who had to give an antidote.    By then permanent damage had already been done to my feet ( curled toes ). 

Had I been left longer it would have affected my breathing etc.     Is that an unknown preexisting condition ?

Sounds bad. All the best!

 

As far as I know the term preexisting condition is mostly used for known preexisting conditions. I.e. if a person knows he has a heart problem and signs an application for a health insurance without mentioning this condition then the health insurance probably does not have to pay for anything related to that condition. And if they paid already they can try to get their money back from the patient.

In terms of insurance I don't think there is such thing as an "unknown preexisting condition".

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Speedo1968 said:

What happens if you die in hospital before from treatment from an unknown preexisting condition ?

I mean that the unknown condition made you susceptible to the treatment they gave.

For me I am very allergic to many meds especially antibiotics ( yes they could give a skin test before I suppose ), those known of are in writing.

 

I was following a spider bite (which I couldn't see but the doctor guessed from my symptoms and finally found the bite mark ) given a jab that was supposed to suppress symptoms.    They asked if I had the medication before, no I hadn't, the nurse gave the jab and walked away due to busy outpatients.
A few minutes later I started to loose all feeling in my legs, I shouted and shouted for a nurse but no one came as a child was crying loudly outside.

Eventually the nurse came back and called the doctor who had to give an antidote.    By then permanent damage had already been done to my feet ( curled toes ). 

Had I been left longer it would have affected my breathing etc.     Is that an unknown preexisting condition ?

What you are describing is not a pre-existing condition but rather either a drug allergy or an adverse drug reaction unrelated to allergy. I can't tell which without knowing the name of the drug.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

In terms of insurance I don't think there is such thing as an "unknown preexisting condition".

Taken from April Intl T&Cs. Probably in most insurance companies terms.

 

"PRE-EXISTING  CONDITION:  a  medical  condition  which  manifested  itself  before  the  date  of  signature  of  your  Application  form (including  your  Health  questionnaire).  A  Pre-existing  condition  is  defined  as  any  illness  of  this  type  of  which  You  were  aware  or  of which  You  could  reasonably  have  been  aware  when  You  purchased  this  insurance"

[fredge45]

I was in one of Chiang Mai's 'finest' private hospitals being treated.  Told the Dr. that I had gone through some relevant procedures at the other "finest" hospital.  The other hospital refused to release the records unless I personally came to pick them up, which I was unable to do at the time.  I even signed some form requesting release but they still refused.  Told them to RAM it in the future.

[Peterphuket]

In my experience, the private hospitals don't do.

Some time ago I visit Bangkok Hospital, and before they start a treatment I asking , they know about my allergic for some medicines, they have in a file from me, but they repleid negative.

So be warned.

[Speedo1968]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

What you are describing is not a pre-existing condition but rather either a drug allergy or an adverse drug reaction unrelated to allergy. I can't tell which without knowing the name of the drug.

Thanks Sheryl for your comments.

Spider bite not felt but marks found on upper arm, occurred during visiting an International Poultry Show in Bangkok.
Drugs given at hospital, Plasil - intravenous and Dramamine.

My response to these were almost immediate so assume that Plasil was the problem.

Once the doctor heeded my calls for help a pin <deleted> test was done to check extent of numbness.
The symptoms after some minutes also included uncontrollable shaking and hyperventilation although these could have been from the spider bite.

I listed both medications in red text on the list of drugs that I carry with me whenever I go out.

[geriatrickid]

OP is a diabetic. I suggest he carry the info on you or join Medic Alert. (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Malaysia, Cyprus, Iceland, UK, South Africa & USA all have their own units.) Medic Alert has wrist bands or necklaces that provide a contact number and yes, admitting clerks (in the larger hospitals) are trained to look for the  items on farangs who are brought in in an unresponsive state. Typically an inventory is taken of a patient, so the medic alert will be  found.

[Sheryl]

21 hours ago, fredge45 said:

I was in one of Chiang Mai's 'finest' private hospitals being treated.  Told the Dr. that I had gone through some relevant procedures at the other "finest" hospital.  The other hospital refused to release the records unless I personally came to pick them up

Exactly my experience with other hospitals.. even with the patient in another hospital requesting their own records, will not send.