August 1st - 'covid visa' ends, what next?

[smokinfun]

Hello to the ThaiVisa masses - 'long time listener, first time caller' - I keep my primary residence in Thailand for the past 14 years, but most of the time I'm working outside Thailand for long stretches (I have been lucky enough to find work in Thailand a few years, and then had a work permit).  Left my job in June 2019 and basically been in and out of Thailand on Tourist visas.  I think I had 8 tourist visas in that time.  Current situation: American, 51 years old (don't have funds for retirement visa), currently on tourist 'covid' visa, waiting on my next job (I've actually been 'hired' and let go from projects during this pandemic).  What are my low cost options to continue to stay past July 31st??  Thanks so much to the ThaiVisa masses and taking your valuable time to help.

[ubonjoe]

If the amnesty is not extended you will have to leave the country on or before July 31st unless you qualify for an extension of some kind.

It may be possible to get a special 30 day extension with a letter from your embassy to stay after the 31st.

If you cannot get an extension you may be able to do a border hop for a 30 day visa exempt entry. Or you could apply for a single entry tourist visa that will allow a 60 day entry that can be extended for 30 days at a nearby embassy or consulate.

[Ventenio]

imagine the wait in Laos for a visa.  2 months?  3 months?  it might take you two days to cross the border and return. maybe you can sign-up online now..i doubt it, too lazy to check.   i'm slightly joking, but certainly there must be tens of thousands (maybe more) wanting to leave at the same time.  

 

oh, i forgot, all buses filled with border runs until December.  lol

 

I laugh because it's not even July.  i won't be laughing on July 30th.

 

can't wait for the quarantine after you cross.... omg.  

 

it's all speculation.  

[BangkokReady]

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you cannot get an extension you may be able to do a border hop for a 30 day visa exempt entry.

Do you think they will allow a same day out-and-in with a visa exempt after 31st July?  A no quarantine option?

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Do you think they will allow a same day out-and-in with a visa exempt after 31st July?  A no quarantine option?

I am not sure and that is why wrote may. I personally do not think the will be ending visa exempt entries. Entering is the country is a big unanswerable question.

Also after July 31st people would be on a overstay if the did not leave or apply for a extension on or before that day.

[Samui Bodoh]

38 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I am not sure and that is why wrote may. I personally do think the will be ending visa exempt entries. Entering is the country is a big unanswerable question.

Also after July 31st people would be on a overstay if the did not leave or apply for a extension on or before that day.

Hi @ubonjoe

 

I am in a similar situation as the OP. I have finished a 2 year NoN Imm O-A Long Stay and now am on the Covid amnesty. I had expected (wrongly!) that I would be able to either get another O-A in Canada or pop down to Malaysia and get a new NoN O, then get an extension, but returning to Thailand after leaving does not seem possible. I asked Samui Immigration for advice on how to deal with the situation, but they just said leave the country and get either a VE entry and convert, or get a new NoN O; when I pointed out that I couldn't go to Malaysia and come back, I just got the blank look (I don't think they know anything either). I could return to Canada without a return visa, but I think it'll take that much longer to get back unless I already have something in my passport. Further, I know a guy stuck in Canada now, and I am trying not to join that cue (It may be unavoidable).

 

My questions are...

1. Will there be a method for people to do a 'border bounce'? I suspect that there are thousands (?) of people who have either a Multiple Entry Non-O, tourist visa, other visa, etc; it would be both impossible and madness for all of them to have to leave the country in July. Simply put, it couldn't be done without a full airplane schedule operating, and that won't be happening.
2. If there are no 'border bounces' and no method of acquiring another NoN O at a nearby embassy, what then? Putting hundreds/thousands of people on overstay is not really feasible either (in my opinion); Thailand would get crucified in the international media at a time when it is trying to re-start its tourism industry.
3. Is there a chance that the current amnesty will get extended? People will need time to make alternate arrangements, especially if international planes aren't frequent (in the BP today, there was a story casting doubt on whether or not international tourism flights will get flying in July).
4. Simply put, what is the way out of this situation? The Thai government can't put hundreds/thousands of people into the IDC or on overstay, yet there isn't a method for all to get legal. What will happen?
5. Any advice to my specific situation? I can, I assume, go back to Canada for a time, but any idea how long until I could return? My life is here, not in Canada.
6. Any idea\speculation as to when we will get some information/decisions? Again, given the numbers of people involved, there will need to be (at minimum) several weeks or month(s) lead time in order for people to adapt to a new situation.

As I read back what I wrote, the only logical answer that I see is either extend the amnesty for another 2-3 months, or allow people to do a 'virtual' border bounce at their local immigration office. I have trouble seeing the Thai government doing either of those things.

 

Thanks in advance for any info/advice; everything that I know about Thai immigration, I have learned from you, so I would be grateful to see what you think, even if it is speculation.

 

Cheers

SB

 

[darrendsd]

I really don't understand why people ask all these questions - Ubonjoe can help as much as he can but the simple truth is that Joe or any of us have no idea whatsoever what will happen until announcements are made

 

Unfortunately as I have seen happen many times on this forum "speculation" is then twisted along the line to be fact

 

Simply put you are asking questions that no one can answer - wait for the announcements and take it from there 

[Sundown]

9 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Simply put you are asking questions that no one can answer - wait for the announcements and take it from there 

There is a bit more than one month left to 31 July. What are they waiting to clarify what will happen? I know there is no answer but the issue is not small and many don't know what to do, it's just frustrating. At this point I'm also interested to know if after 31 July the overstay will be counted from that date or from the visa expiration date.

[Martyp]

20 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Hi @ubonjoe

 

I am in a similar situation as the OP. I have finished a 2 year NoN Imm O-A Long Stay and now am on the Covid amnesty.

 

You could have gotten a 1 year extension of stay. If you are already past the second year and are here on the covid amnesty I am not sure you can do that now but you should ask.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Also after July 31st people would be on a overstay if the did not leave or apply for a extension on or before that day.

Do you think they will effectively say "f-you, leave" to people that are waiting for work, study or long term visas that need to "out and in"?  Or expect them to go to Laos for two weeks then come back to Thailand and quarantine again for two weeks, for something that would have been a one day thing before?

 

I see someone else has written an even longer list of questions.  Time to get your crystal ball out.

 

I really hope they do something to stop people from having to spend a month+ just so they can switch to another visa in Thailand.  (Perhaps it's all about getting people to have the COVID insurance and they can't do that without making them leave.)

[Samui Bodoh]

9 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

I really don't understand why people ask all these questions - Ubonjoe can help as much as he can but the simple truth is that Joe or any of us have no idea whatsoever what will happen until announcements are made

 

Unfortunately as I have seen happen many times on this forum "speculation" is then twisted along the line to be fact

 

Simply put you are asking questions that no one can answer - wait for the announcements and take it from there 

Respectfully, I disagree.

 

I assume that TVF in general and Ubonjoe in particular are in frequent contact with the Immigration police and I think it is good if members ask their questions/raise their issues so that discussions based on reality are possible and (hopefully) fruitful.

 

It is a Forum for the exchange of ideas and knowledge.

 

Secondly, I think it is good when members raise questions/issues; it is good to know if/when other members are in the same boat.

 

Third, one member asking questions is a method of focusing thoughts and defining issues; it is a good process for all.

 

Fourth, passively awaiting information from the Thai government is not an effective way to plan your life. Nuff' said.

 

And finally, if there is no answer or UbonJoe just says "I don't know" then that is an answer in itself.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

32 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Thanks in advance for any info/advice; everything that I know about Thai immigration, I have learned from you, so I would be grateful to see what you think, even if it is speculation.

I cannot predict what will happen before July 31st or after.

After reading a news article on a online paper this morning that stated this "The ban on commercial international flights might not be lifted on July 1 as originally planned". That makes me think that the amnesty may have to be extended again.

Not even sure the border crossing will be open.

As I wrote before I am certain that visa exempt entries will still be possible when flights are available and border crossing will be open.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Secondly, I think it is good when members raise questions/issues; it is good to know if/when other members are in the same boat

I agree with you. Good to exchange ideas. For some time now I have been throwing out there that MAYBE visa exempt entries are suspended. Many guys perhaps planning on out/in 30 day stamp. Thinking plan B and C needed. 

[Keyser Soze666]

29 minutes ago, Sundown said:

I know there is no answer but the issue is not small and many don't know what to do, it's just frustrating. At this point I'm also interested to know if after 31 July the overstay will be counted from that date or from the visa expiration date.

You don't have to DO anything, that is the whole point of an amnesty. Not sure why it's frustrating, how much notice do you need, it's still almost 6 weeks away. Maybe you don't have much else to think about? I'm not frustrated at all, infact I barely give it a second thought.

 

As for your o/s question, it has been stated many times by Joe and others that overstay will only count after July 31, yet you are still asking?? How can the gov give an amnesty until July 31 and then tell people they are on overstay for any visa expiration date before that?? Think about it.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Keyser Soze666

[laosnative]

26 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Do you think they will effectively say "f-you, leave" to people that are waiting for work, study or long term visas that need to "out and in"?  Or expect them to go to Laos for two weeks then come back to Thailand and quarantine again for two weeks, for something that would have been a one day thing before?

 

I see someone else has written an even longer list of questions.  Time to get your crystal ball out.

 

I really hope they do something to stop people from having to spend a month+ just so they can switch to another visa in Thailand.  (Perhaps it's all about getting people to have the COVID insurance and they can't do that without making them leave.)

Plus the fact that Laos borders remain closed to all except exeptional circumstances, and freight, Not sure about other neighbouring countries as I am not affected by their circumstances.

[bestie]

I never understood why people have to leave Thailand and get a new Visa or make a border run every 3 Month or every Year. Of course the law but especially in Covid times it would be so much easier to get a Visa inside Thailand and would resolve a lot of trouble on both sides. But who knows what will happen...

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Respectfully, I disagree.

 

I assume that TVF in general and Ubonjoe in particular are in frequent contact with the Immigration police and I think it is good if members ask their questions/raise their issues so that discussions based on reality are possible and (hopefully) fruitful.

 

It is a Forum for the exchange of ideas and knowledge.

 

Secondly, I think it is good when members raise questions/issues; it is good to know if/when other members are in the same boat.

 

Third, one member asking questions is a method of focusing thoughts and defining issues; it is a good process for all.

 

Fourth, passively awaiting information from the Thai government is not an effective way to plan your life. Nuff' said.

 

And finally, if there is no answer or UbonJoe just says "I don't know" then that is an answer in itself.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

He does not know - his answers confirm that but he is just being polite in how he is saying them

 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I cannot predict what will happen before July 31st or after.

Get my point?

 

1 hour ago, Sundown said:

There is a bit more than one month left to 31 July. What are they waiting to clarify what will happen? I know there is no answer but the issue is not small and many don't know what to do, it's just frustrating. At this point I'm also interested to know if after 31 July the overstay will be counted from that date or from the visa expiration date.

I'm in the same boat as you - I am waiting to see what happens however I am intelligent enough to realize that asking on here will not give me a definitive answer - the reason is that there has been no official announcement yet

[Deli]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Hi @ubonjoe

 

I am in a similar situation as the OP. I have finished a 2 year NoN Imm O-A Long Stay and now am on the Covid amnesty. I had expected (wrongly!) that I would be able to either get another O-A in Canada or pop down to Malaysia and get a new NoN O, then get an extension, but returning to Thailand after leaving does not seem possible. I asked Samui Immigration for advice on how to deal with the situation, but they just said leave the country and get either a VE entry and convert, or get a new NoN O; when I pointed out that I couldn't go to Malaysia and come back, I just got the blank look (I don't think they know anything either). I could return to Canada without a return visa, but I think it'll take that much longer to get back unless I already have something in my passport. Further, I know a guy stuck in Canada now, and I am trying not to join that cue (It may be unavoidable).

 

My questions are...

1. Will there be a method for people to do a 'border bounce'? I suspect that there are thousands (?) of people who have either a Multiple Entry Non-O, tourist visa, other visa, etc; it would be both impossible and madness for all of them to have to leave the country in July. Simply put, it couldn't be done without a full airplane schedule operating, and that won't be happening.
2. If there are no 'border bounces' and no method of acquiring another NoN O at a nearby embassy, what then? Putting hundreds/thousands of people on overstay is not really feasible either (in my opinion); Thailand would get crucified in the international media at a time when it is trying to re-start its tourism industry.
3. Is there a chance that the current amnesty will get extended? People will need time to make alternate arrangements, especially if international planes aren't frequent (in the BP today, there was a story casting doubt on whether or not international tourism flights will get flying in July).
4. Simply put, what is the way out of this situation? The Thai government can't put hundreds/thousands of people into the IDC or on overstay, yet there isn't a method for all to get legal. What will happen?
5. Any advice to my specific situation? I can, I assume, go back to Canada for a time, but any idea how long until I could return? My life is here, not in Canada.
6. Any idea\speculation as to when we will get some information/decisions? Again, given the numbers of people involved, there will need to be (at minimum) several weeks or month(s) lead time in order for people to adapt to a new situation.

As I read back what I wrote, the only logical answer that I see is either extend the amnesty for another 2-3 months, or allow people to do a 'virtual' border bounce at their local immigration office. I have trouble seeing the Thai government doing either of those things.

 

Thanks in advance for any info/advice; everything that I know about Thai immigration, I have learned from you, so I would be grateful to see what you think, even if it is speculation.

 

Cheers

SB

 

From that what I understaood, basically everyboday now had or has the possibilty to leave the country and go to his home country. This is the possibility if the person does not hold a WP or can obtain or renew a valid visa in the country. Why shall Thailand extend TV or othe Visa types, requiering leaving the country for people who are not real tourists or cannot fullfil requested requirements ? All people I know packed their stuff and left either with repatriation or regular flights and may come back at a later moment.

 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Deli said:

From that what I understaood, basically everyboday now had or has the possibilty to leave the country and go to his home country. This is the possibility if the person does not hold a WP or can obtain or renew a valid visa in the country. Why shall Thailand extend TV or othe Visa types, requiering leaving the country for people who are not real tourists or cannot fullfil requested requirements ? All people I know packed their stuff and left either with repatriation or regular flights and may come back at a later moment.

 

There are several problems with this logic:

1. There is no legal definition of "real tourist" in Thai immigration law
2. Immigration often refuses to accept valid applications for extensions, which meet all published requirements - hence the need for "other visa types"
3. Other non-tourist type visas are primarily the Non-O-ME - how thousands of Thai husbands and fathers stay with their families.  Many of us (including myself) meet the conditions by a wide margin (multiple of the minimum income), yet cannot get extensions due to corrupt IO-Agent rackets.  Others have, maybe, "only" 25K Baht/mo pensions (multiples of a Thai's average salary), which their families depend on, yet I have never heard of an IO invoking humanitarian-reasons to give an an exception for this type of case (though this is legal).
4. Many of us have nothing in our "home countries" - do not wish to and would not go there under any circumstances short of being forced "there or North Korea" (or similar options). 

If forced out of Thailand by July 31 (not saying that will happen), it is just a question of what other country wants the spending - who opens up first.  Then we go there, until we can return here.

[LukKrueng]

Anything anyone write here is pure speculation so feel free to speculate on your own.

There is no clear information on what will be tomorrow / end of THIS month, let alone end of NEXT month.

Extension by letter of embassy was before the amnesty - Will it be possible again after 31st July? Speculation

Border runs used to work in the past. Will it be the same as before as early as August? Speculation

30 days visa exempt was working in the past. Will it work the same as before for the same nationalities? Speculation 

[LukKrueng]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I assume that TVF in general and Ubonjoe in particular are in frequent contact with the Immigration police and I think it is good if members ask their questions/raise their issues so that discussions based on reality are possible and (hopefully) fruitful.

Why would you assume that? If you bothered to read Ubonjoe's answer you should understand that he gets his knowledge from news articles and public announcements made by the police / immigration and not through an "inside link" to anyone at immigration. 

So many such discussions are based on speculations rather than reality.

[JHicks]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I cannot predict what will happen before July 31st or after.

After reading a news article on a online paper this morning that stated this "The ban on commercial international flights might not be lifted on July 1 as originally planned". That makes me think that the amnesty may have to be extended again.

Not even sure the border crossing will be open.

As I wrote before I am certain that visa exempt entries will still be possible when flights are available and border crossing will be open.

But what if your passport is from a country that's not within the travel bubble? I thought the travel bubble was going to be based on nationality rather than flight origin or travel history, so was picturing people having to leave but being unable to re-enter for this reason.

[Sambotte]

Hopefully they will extend the permission of stay for 2-3 months or even for the rest of the year. Considering the travel restrictions planned, even with borders opening and planes flying very partially. Not to mention other waves of cases anywhere in the world.

 

It's not like there is too many farangs in Thailand now hm ?... And there will not be many before long, with this world pandepanic continuing. Thailand rely on tourism. They would be crazy to force the ones who are here to go away, even if it's not "regular short tourism" anymore, as they want(ed) since a few years.

Borders run are obviously not a viable option, unless really no other choice. Risky on any level (contagion, quarantine, entry refused, etc.), for months.

 

No risk by doing an extension. Money for people. Good locking. They should... Will they ? ????

[Sambotte]

2 minutes ago, JHicks said:

But what if your passport is from a country that's not within the travel bubble? I thought the travel bubble was going to be based on nationality rather than flight origin or travel history, so was picturing people having to leave but being unable to re-enter for this reason.

Yep... I did not search too much but it looks like another world mess "around" ????

Should be based on origin-destination, but i read it could be based on just passport. Nonsense again... Not sure for witch country i read this, maybe in Europe.

[JHicks]

14 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

Yep... I did not search too much but it looks like another world mess "around" ????

Should be based on origin-destination, but i read it could be based on just passport. Nonsense again... Not sure for witch country i read this, maybe in Europe.

I read that Vietnam was doing it based on nationality. Partial travel bans e.g. in Cambodia have been based on nationality as well. I'm hoping they'll let others in with a requirement to do 14 days' quarantine, but I'm not banking on that any time soon.

[JHicks]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

If forced out of Thailand by July 31 (not saying that will happen), it is just a question of what other country wants the spending - who opens up first.  Then we go there, until we can return here.

But what makes you think that any country will have opened up by the time the amnesty ends? I can see people having to go back to their "home" countries.

[Maestro]

The Ministerial Notifications of  7 April 2020 and 23 April 2020 were issued because of 

Quote

...the closure of points of entry into the Kingdom, by closing points of entry, checkpoints, border crossings or border checkpoints for travellers entering into the Kingdom...

Source:  first paragraph of Ministerial Notification dated 7 April 2020

for the purpose to allow foreigners with a permission to stay expiring on 26 March 2020 or later who were unable to leave Thailand because of the border closure and/or unavailability of passenger flights out of Thailand to continue to stay legally in Thailand. The current automatic extension of stay is until 31 July 2020.

 

It is important to note that the foreigners still in Thailand now are not required to remain in Thailand until 31 July or the expiration date of a new automatic extension, if any should be announced. In fact, the governments of many countries urged their nationals who did not wish to remain in Thailand for an indefinite time to to return home immediately, while commercial flights were still available, and some countries organised special repatriation flights once commercial flights got scarce or were no longer available.

Quote

 

...once the situation has been resolved or has returned to normalcy, such alien shall comply with Section 35 and Section 37 (5) of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)…or with the relevant notifications of the Ministry of Interior, within the period of time specified by the Immigration Bureau...

Source:  clause 2(3) of Ministerial Notification dated 7 April 2020

 

 

I have no English translation of the Ministerial Notification of 23 April on hand but is is essentially the same text as the Notification of 7 April with the exception that it states the new automatic extension period from 1 May to 31 July.

 

Covid-19 - Ministerial Notification 7 April 2020 automatic extension - MFA en.pdf

[JHicks]

3 minutes ago, Maestro said:

The Ministerial Notifications of  7 April 2020 and 23 April 2020 were issued because of 

for the purpose to allow foreigners with a permission to stay expiring on 26 March 2020 or later who were unable to leave Thailand because of the border closure and/or unavailability of passenger flights out of Thailand to continue to stay legally in Thailand. The current automatic extension of stay is until 31 July 2020.

If you're saying the reason for the amnesty was that people were unable to leave, and that won't be the case once the airports reopen for international departures, I agree. Even so, it's unlikely to end on the day international departures restart, because that would mean everybody having to get out the same day. I think there's bound to be some kind of grace period, but I wouldn't count on it being so long that other countries in the region are open by the time it ends, or that you can get straight back into Thailand regardless of nationality.

[OJAS]

9 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Time to get your crystal ball out.

So long as it has already established a proven track record of accurately predicting immigration-related changes - meaning that you should then be able rely on it to tell you what is going to happen (or not as the case may be) as regards the amnesty after 31st July.????

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

If forced out of Thailand by July 31 (not saying that will happen), it is just a question of what other country wants the spending - who opens up first.  Then we go there, until we can return here.

Based on the trajectory of infections there, maintaining Covid-19 border restrictions in India looks completely pointless. Indian authorities might well take the view that a handful of additional cases makes little difference when 100,000 or more new infections per day are occurring. With the dire economic impact being felt there, it would make sense to open up to foreigners with good incomes.