what percent of obesity cases are the result of lifestyle choices?

[robblok]

43 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Really depends on the diet plan. In some diet plans you simply choose the bread calories over other calories that may come weighted with more nutritional benefits. Why would anyone do that? Well, 'cause they like the taste better. In fact, TVF Nutritionists typically defend with religious fervor the diet they enjoy most. I understand that. ????

 

Argument would be futile. I'll merely point out that it may not be quite the settled science one may wish to believe. A couple of dissenting voices:

 

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/whole-grains

 

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/

 

This is amusing; I like "Wheat built the Pyramid":

 

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/7-reasons-to-love-wheat/

 

That some poster here would be interested in giving up bread or reducing his intake of grain calories is about as likely as a meteor destroying planet Earth in the next 30 days. I'll throw this out there just for skipping stones:

 

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-quit-grains/

As you said the science is not settled yet so I keep eating my grains. There is actually research out that goes counter to the site your posting. So its a matter of what you believe. Id say this the IMHO its a minor thing eating them or not eating them unless your one of those people who have a gluten allergy. 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322992#All-whole-grains-are-good-for-you

and more

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/9-benefits-of-whole-grains

 

I think we both can go on finding pro and contra sites for quite some time.

[balo]

On 7/4/2020 at 10:51 AM, BigStar said:

Bread just begging for oil, butter, and cheese, tempting one to pig out on useless carbs & calories. Merely promoters of greater obesity, those, which undercuts your point. ????

Not all bread types are the same.  I only eat bread high in fiber. And with no added sugar. The Scandinavian type you will not find in the US.  Or maybe you will find it in a Scandinavian bakery. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by balo

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Not all bread types are the same.

Very good. And with different glycemic indexes. Whole wheat bread is still high compared to healthier choices with fiber and more nutritional benefits. You carefully ignored my point about the butter, oil, and cheese topping. Should have mentioned the sweet toppings as well--jam etc.

 

The main issue here, as it usually is, is simply that you like your bread so very, very much.

 

1 hour ago, balo said:

I only eat bread high in fiber. And with no added sugar. The Scandinavian type you will not find in the US.  Or maybe you will find it in a Scandinavian bakery. 

Yawn. What we've already wasted time showing at length is that you have absolutely no idea what kind of bread is available in the USA anywhere. ???? I'm not going do it for you, but you can just link to a nutritional analysis of your bread and we'll find some equivalents for you.

 

But congrats on your greatest leap of illogic: obesity in the USA results from the "sad and terrible" absence of Scandinavian bread!????

 

And finally, though you may ascribe magical powers to that bread, it ain't saving Norway:

Norwegian men might want to cut down on the sticky cinnamon buns if a new WHO report is anything to go by. A shocking 76 percent will be overweight by 2030, up from 58 percent in 2010.

Norway is currently one of Europe's least overweight countries, with men ranking 20th out of the 34 European and Former Soviet Union countries surveyed, and women ranking 25th.          

--https://www.thelocal.no/20150506/norways-men-soon-to-be-among-europes-fattest-who

 

Nor are all those supposedly superior supermarkets. No, they sell only healthy foods. So it seems there's something else "sad and terrible" there, too. Something rotten in Norway, so to speak. It's beginning to look like (cough) just what I said: the bakeries are tempting people to pig out on all those useless carbs.

 

I love this forum!

Edited July 6, 2020 by BigStar

[balo]

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

Norway is currently one of Europe's least overweight countries, with men ranking 20th out of the 34 European

And that's a good thing, Obesity you will find in all parts of the world.
My point was and still is the selection in US supermarkets are different than supermarkets where I am from, and I will stick to that. And yes not all supermarkets are the same.  

 

[BigStar]

11 hours ago, balo said:

And that's a good thing, Obesity you will find in all parts of the world.
My point was and still is the selection in US supermarkets are different than supermarkets where I am from, and I will stick to that. And yes not all supermarkets are the same.  
 

And so then I can stick to informing you that your point isn't any more relevant to this topic than when you made it the first time. How many more times do you need to be so informed?

[balo]

7 hours ago, BigStar said:

And so then I can stick to informing you that your point isn't any more relevant to this topic than when you made it the first time.

So lets stick to the topic instead of you being so arrogant. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/5/2020 at 4:18 PM, jvs said:

Like you i have never been overweight,when i was working out a lot i was 6 kilos above what i weigh now and i weigh the same as when i was 16.

I have not read all the responses but i know for a fact you do not wake up one morning and realize you are 25 kilos overweight.

If i gain 1 kilo i feel it and decide to skip a few meals.

I am not poking at people here but to me it really is very easy not to gain weight.

Eating healthy is of course a good thing but even if you eat too much healthy food  of course it will make you

fat also.

None of the posters on here apparently take into account the mental health of fat obese people. I used to care about my weight and stayed at 86kg. if I went over I ate less. I put the weight on when I got depressed and ate lots of Bakewell tarts. When I got married and was happy I lost weight as didn't need to eat in compensation. When my marriage got into trouble the weight went back on.

The point is, if one doesn't care about oneself why would one even try to eat healthy? Losing weight needs incentive, and without incentive who bothers doing anything?

[fredwiggy]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

None of the posters on here apparently take into account the mental health of fat obese people. I used to care about my weight and stayed at 86kg. if I went over I ate less. I put the weight on when I got depressed and ate lots of Bakewell tarts. When I got married and was happy I lost weight as didn't need to eat in compensation. When my marriage got into trouble the weight went back on.

The point is, if one doesn't care about oneself why would one even try to eat healthy? Losing weight needs incentive, and without incentive who bothers doing anything?

No one can make you happy if you aren't capable of being happy. Depression is a <deleted>ty disease, and with treatment, a person can have better days. Eating , compensating for sadness or grief, happens to millions, but eating healthy won't put on the pounds like "comfort" food does. When people start out lean, and get into bad habits , eating badly, then start gaining weight, they start feeling worse. Then they think they're prisoners of their bodies and nothing will help, so they eat more, and they feel better when they eat, so it becomes a bad habit. They turn to food for the answer when what is bothering or hurting them needs to be addressed, and food will only make another problem. The first love a person needs is self love. Without that you can't love others right. Eat and exercise for yourself. It's no one else's business who you are or what you look like. Do things for yourself. You are the one that matters first.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

None of the posters on here apparently take into account the mental health of fat obese people. I used to care about my weight and stayed at 86kg. if I went over I ate less. I put the weight on when I got depressed and ate lots of Bakewell tarts. When I got married and was happy I lost weight as didn't need to eat in compensation. When my marriage got into trouble the weight went back on.

The point is, if one doesn't care about oneself why would one even try to eat healthy? Losing weight needs incentive, and without incentive who bothers doing anything?

Good point, when I am injured and cannot train my wil to follow my food programs goes away. I have known people who were depressed and it is truly awful. People like that don't care about anything. However once it is cured (and it can be cured) its up to the individual to either accept the weight or do something about it. 

[jvs]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

None of the posters on here apparently take into account the mental health of fat obese people. I used to care about my weight and stayed at 86kg. if I went over I ate less. I put the weight on when I got depressed and ate lots of Bakewell tarts. When I got married and was happy I lost weight as didn't need to eat in compensation. When my marriage got into trouble the weight went back on.

The point is, if one doesn't care about oneself why would one even try to eat healthy? Losing weight needs incentive, and without incentive who bothers doing anything?

Some people do the same thing with alcohol,i also know some people who were depressed and they just forgot to eat.Being fat because of lifestyle or being fat because of a disease(depression)is totally different.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/8/2020 at 12:38 PM, fredwiggy said:

No one can make you happy if you aren't capable of being happy. Depression is a <deleted>ty disease, and with treatment, a person can have better days. Eating , compensating for sadness or grief, happens to millions, but eating healthy won't put on the pounds like "comfort" food does. When people start out lean, and get into bad habits , eating badly, then start gaining weight, they start feeling worse. Then they think they're prisoners of their bodies and nothing will help, so they eat more, and they feel better when they eat, so it becomes a bad habit. They turn to food for the answer when what is bothering or hurting them needs to be addressed, and food will only make another problem. The first love a person needs is self love. Without that you can't love others right. Eat and exercise for yourself. It's no one else's business who you are or what you look like. Do things for yourself. You are the one that matters first.

Getting proper treatment for depression is expensive. In the UK I got a few weeks NHS counseling which stopped just as it was getting somewhere. Have to be rich to afford private counseling. The Dr just gives pills and they made me impotent, so I stopped taking them.

 

Happy? I think I stopped being happy the day I realised my first partner was a mistake. After that, being content was as good as it gets.

Nothing like a bad relationship to suck all the joy out of life.

I know I used to laugh a lot, but not for many years now.

However, I never got overweight till I got a sit down job.

[jvs]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Getting proper treatment for depression is expensive. In the UK I got a few weeks NHS counseling which stopped just as it was getting somewhere. Have to be rich to afford private counseling. The Dr just gives pills and they made me impotent, so I stopped taking them.

 

Happy? I think I stopped being happy the day I realised my first partner was a mistake. After that, being content was as good as it gets.

Nothing like a bad relationship to suck all the joy out of life.

I know I used to laugh a lot, but not for many years now.

However, I never got overweight till I got a sit down job.

I have been where you are,did the counseling thing and the pills also.

Was diagnosed with depression and ptsd.Was very hard on me for a very long time.

Still effecting me today.

I laugh as much as i can and enjoy as much as i can.

You can not let life win,just be happy your bad relationship is gone,or two or three.

Unlike you i do not believe in a higher being.

I stop in the garden to smell a flower,i notice new cars on the road,listen to music that i have not heard for a long time.

I feed my animals and talk to them and they interact with me.

Thaibeachlover,there is no time like the present to kick yourself into gear.

Take the best and leave the rest.

[Tony125]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Getting proper treatment for depression is expensive. In the UK I got a few weeks NHS counseling which stopped just as it was getting somewhere. Have to be rich to afford private counseling. The Dr just gives pills and they made me impotent, so I stopped taking them.

 

Happy? I think I stopped being happy the day I realised my first partner was a mistake. After that, being content was as good as it gets.

Nothing like a bad relationship to suck all the joy out of life.

I know I used to laugh a lot, but not for many years now.

However, I never got overweight till I got a sit down job.

Watch short vid below

You say your first wife took everything and rrained you of  happiness but you did not learn from that expiriance and  thought eroneously that a Thai girl would be differrent. As poster above said you have to have self love . Whenmy first relationship broke updidn't bother me at all as she  was a "B" , my second was great but she died young that messedme up foralmost 2 years did nothing but work, sleepeat go to work. Later I said she would not want me to live this way and I started living again bought a car, started visiting Thailand but I ahve taken care of my self not so some girl thinks I am cute but I care to look fit/feel good be healthy. Even thoughmarried I set things up so that neither her or anyone else can really screw me over financially. You say depression treatment is expensive in UKbut your  in NZ now what about there? Secondly you said the Dr only gave you pills which made you impotent. I had bloodpressurepills did the same so told Dr and they changed the pills, could have done it with the meds they gave you or simply used viagra whennneeded or possibly HGH/Testosterone booster or actual shots/suppliments. Can still try to get help or your depression lake of drive/incentive and working out wiould evenincrease that by releasing endomorphines into your body.

[Tony125]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Getting proper treatment for depression is expensive. In the UK I got a few weeks NHS counseling which stopped just as it was getting somewhere. Have to be rich to afford private counseling. The Dr just gives pills and they made me impotent, so I stopped taking them.

 

Happy? I think I stopped being happy the day I realised my first partner was a mistake. After that, being content was as good as it gets.

Nothing like a bad relationship to suck all the joy out of life.

I know I used to laugh a lot, but not for many years now.

However, I never got overweight till I got a sit down job.

I recomend you just try taking  2--400/500 MG Turmeric aka Curcumin Caps twice a day with meals  (can take up to 4 times a day) It's a natural herb/spice with these benefits. Need to take for at least a month as it needs time to build up in your system.

 

10 Proven Health Benefits of Turmeric and Curcumin

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-turmeric

 

Studies Show That Curcumin Has Incredible Benefits Against Depression

Curcumin has shown some promise in treating depression.

In a controlled trial, 60 people with depression were randomized into three groups (45Trusted Source).

One group took Prozac, another group one gram of curcumin and the third group both Prozac and curcumin.

After 6 weeks, curcumin had led to improvements that were similar to Prozac. The group that took both Prozac and curcumin fared best (45Trusted Source).

According to this small study, curcumin is as effective as an antidepressant.

Depression is also linked to reduced levels of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and a shrinking hippocampus, a brain area with a role in learning and memory.

Curcumin boosts BDNF levels, potentially reversing some of these changes (46).

There is also some evidence that curcumin can boost the brain neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine (47, 48).

SUMMARYA study in 60 people with depression showed that curcumin was as effective as Prozac in alleviating symptoms of the condition.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Tony125

[balo]

4 hours ago, Tony125 said:

I recomend you just try taking  2--400/500 MG Turmeric aka Curcumin Caps twice a day with meals 

Or just buy curcumin as spice. I use it in all my food.

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Or just buy curcumin as spice. I use it in all my food.

It's just that it  is a little more concentrated in tabs and some  might not like the taste but I do.

[robblok]

11 hours ago, Tony125 said:

It's just that it  is a little more concentrated in tabs and some  might not like the taste but I do.

I buy them from I herb as they are even more concentrated. The stuff that is effective can vary a lot between supplements. I use it to fight inflammation. 

[Tony125]

Scientists may have uncovered the key to slowing down the ageing process

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/scientists-discover-slowing-down-ageing-process-104211648.html

 

 

Super fit 73-year-old pulls off planks, chin ups and handstands while working out six times a week----short vid below

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/fit-73-year-old-fitness-regime-exercise-elderly-114242370.html

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:22 PM, Tony125 said:

You say your first wife took everything and rrained you of  happiness but you did not learn from that expiriance and  thought eroneously that a Thai girl would be differrent. As poster above said you have to have self love . Whenmy first relationship broke updidn't bother me at all as she  was a "B" , my second was great but she died young that messedme up foralmost 2 years did nothing but work, sleepeat go to work. Later I said she would not want me to live this way and I started living again bought a car, started visiting Thailand but I ahve taken care of my self not so some girl thinks I am cute but I care to look fit/feel good be healthy. Even thoughmarried I set things up so that neither her or anyone else can really screw me over financially. You say depression treatment is expensive in UKbut your  in NZ now what about there? Secondly you said the Dr only gave you pills which made you impotent. I had bloodpressurepills did the same so told Dr and they changed the pills, could have done it with the meds they gave you or simply used viagra whennneeded or possibly HGH/Testosterone booster or actual shots/suppliments. Can still try to get help or your depression lake of drive/incentive and working out wiould evenincrease that by releasing endomorphines into your body.

Thank you for the long reply.

I had a long reply ready to post in response, but my internet connection went down, and I'm not doing it again.

Couple of points though

In NZ don't get any psychological help on the public health, so very expensive. Quite frankly, my GP doesn't have time to deal with my mental state ( other than prescribing drugs ), and I have to pay quite a lot to see him for a 10 minute appointment, at which I just get the basics taken care of. In NZ nothing is free till one is admitted to hospital.

I haven't been depressed for over a decade, but I am melancholy. Only illegal drugs help with melancholia, and I'm not going down that route.

 

I've never ever had an endorphin release through exertion when I was fit and healthy and did sports, so I'm not going to get any now when I'm too decrepit to even run.

 

BTW, Viagra isn't recommended in those with hypertension. Anyway, I tried a different sort and it almost killed me so that's not a good idea.

[Tony125]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thank you for the long reply.

I had a long reply ready to post in response, but my internet connection went down, and I'm not doing it again.

Couple of points though

In NZ don't get any psychological help on the public health, so very expensive. Quite frankly, my GP doesn't have time to deal with my mental state ( other than prescribing drugs ), and I have to pay quite a lot to see him for a 10 minute appointment, at which I just get the basics taken care of. In NZ nothing is free till one is admitted to hospital.

I haven't been depressed for over a decade, but I am melancholy. Only illegal drugs help with melancholia, and I'm not going down that route.

 

I've never ever had an endorphin release through exertion when I was fit and healthy and did sports, so I'm not going to get any now when I'm too decrepit to even run.

 

BTW, Viagra isn't recommended in those with hypertension. Anyway, I tried a different sort and it almost killed me so that's not a good idea.

You say Viagra isn't recommended for those with hypertension---wrong.

A 2014 study published in the journal BMC Medicine found that Viagra had no effect on the blood pressure of patients with a variety of cardiac conditions.

What’s more, they discovered it could actually be good for your heart health.

By increasing blood flow, it may help stop the heart muscle thickening and could prevent early-stage heart failure.

Erectile dysfunction drugs and high blood pressure

It's usually safe to combine the erectile dysfunction drugs sildenafil (Revatio, Viagra), vardenafil (Levitra, Staxyn) and tadalafil (Adcirca, Cialis) with high blood pressure medications.

 

High blood pressure and sex: Overcome the challenges ...(You can't take Viagra with Nitrates)

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-pressure/in-depth/high-blood-pressure-and-sex/art-20044209#:~:text=Erectile%20dysfunction%20drugs%20and%20high%20blood%20pressure&text=It's%20usually%20safe%20to%20combine,with%20high%20blood%20pressure%20medications.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/19/2020 at 3:29 PM, Tony125 said:

You say Viagra isn't recommended for those with hypertension---wrong.

Perhaps, but I used to take Cialis and almost died from it, so that was the last time I used it and not going to try a different one.

[rvaviator]

On 7/4/2020 at 6:07 AM, balo said:

I think you must be trolling, you keep telling me there are no differences, I keep telling you there is.  Yes I've been to Walmart and Vons.  

I think the point that Big Star is trying to make is that you can find the same food in American supermarkets.  I think the issue is more how its promoted / displayed which is the biggest difference between Scandinavia and US.

 

Last time I was in the US .. back in 2016 / 17  - You would see food adds for rubbish kids snacks and food during children's TV - You do not see that in Scandinavia - The 'nanny state' has made that illegal ;-).  TV commercials would then align with marketing campaigns at the supermarkets ... 

 

Sometime I like what the 'nanny state' does ... ????.  Free healthcare and a general more 'equal society' is not so bad as well .... But sure is many things I do not like ... ????

 

 

[rvaviator]

On 7/6/2020 at 8:18 PM, balo said:

Not all bread types are the same.  I only eat bread high in fiber. And with no added sugar. The Scandinavian type you will not find in the US.  Or maybe you will find it in a Scandinavian bakery. 

No brunost ??? 

 

I am getting home sick now !  That is 'real bread' ... ???? ... not the highly refined white wheat 'Mighty White' .. 'shi***e  you see so much of in other places ...

[robblok]

1 hour ago, rvaviator said:

No brunost ??? 

 

I am getting home sick now !  That is 'real bread' ... ???? ... not the highly refined white wheat 'Mighty White' .. 'shi***e  you see so much of in other places ...

If you live outside the sticks you can get this. Also a bread make will solve your problem. I own one makes nice bread when i want it. I have to admit havent used it for a while as changed what i eat a bit.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, rvaviator said:

I think the point that Big Star is trying to make is that you can find the same food in American supermarkets.  I think the issue is more how its promoted / displayed which is the biggest difference between Scandinavia and US.

 

Last time I was in the US .. back in 2016 / 17  - You would see food adds for rubbish kids snacks and food during children's TV - You do not see that in Scandinavia - The 'nanny state' has made that illegal ;-).  TV commercials would then align with marketing campaigns at the supermarkets ... 

 

Sometime I like what the 'nanny state' does ... ????.  Free healthcare and a general more 'equal society' is not so bad as well .... But sure is many things I do not like ... ????

 

 

Nanny states have advantages and disadvantages just like the US nowhere is life perfect.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Nanny states have advantages and disadvantages just like the US nowhere is life perfect.

Nanny states treats everyone like imbeciles and uses punishment, rather than reward to enforce their excessive regulations.

Far as I'm concerned, a police force, defence force, free health care, free education to secondary level and environmental/ food safety regulations are all that is needed. A safety net for those that really need it and temporary assistance if one loses one's job all the social welfare needed. Living on welfare without end is not healthy or recommended.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[StreetCowboy]

On 7/22/2020 at 1:27 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Nanny states treats everyone like imbeciles and uses punishment, rather than reward to enforce their excessive regulations.

Far as I'm concerned, a police force, defence force, free health care, free education to secondary level and environmental/ food safety regulations are all that is needed. A safety net for those that really need it and temporary assistance if one loses one's job all the social welfare needed. Living on welfare without end is not healthy or recommended.

 

We can all invent our own definitions, and then rubbish them accordingly.

 

Nanny states ensure that the least capable amongst us are still productive and healthy.  What I like most about that is that they (the least productive) do not become a source of ill health for the rest of us, either medically or socially.

[Tony125]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:33 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps, but I used to take Cialis and almost died from it, so that was the last time I used it and not going to try a different one.

They are different drugs but both cannot be taken with high blood meds or heart meds containing nitrates.

Cialis generally works within 16 to 45 minutes, and its activity is not affected by food. Viagra generally works within 30 minutes, and its effect may be diminished if taken soon after a high fat meal (which may also delay how fast it works). For this reason, Viagra is best taken on an empty stomach.1,2,7

Effectiveness of all PDE5 inhibitors is similar; although reported effectiveness of Viagra, at 84% is slightly higher than that of Cialis at 81%.7 However, more men prefer Cialis because of its longer duration of effect,up to 36 hrs. All PDE5 inhibitors are contraindicated with nitrates.1,2 The longer duration of action of Cialis means it is at higher risk for drug interactions

[NoshowJones]

At 6ft tall and around 75k, cycling five days a week, I love eating ice cream, and eat quite a lot of it at weekends, and am partial to a couple of biscuits or cakes every day, but again, I have never drank alcohol, or smoked.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/26/2020 at 3:21 PM, Tony125 said:

They are different drugs but both cannot be taken with high blood meds or heart meds containing nitrates.

Cialis generally works within 16 to 45 minutes, and its activity is not affected by food. Viagra generally works within 30 minutes, and its effect may be diminished if taken soon after a high fat meal (which may also delay how fast it works). For this reason, Viagra is best taken on an empty stomach.1,2,7

Effectiveness of all PDE5 inhibitors is similar; although reported effectiveness of Viagra, at 84% is slightly higher than that of Cialis at 81%.7 However, more men prefer Cialis because of its longer duration of effect,up to 36 hrs. All PDE5 inhibitors are contraindicated with nitrates.1,2 The longer duration of action of Cialis means it is at higher risk for drug interactions

I wasn't on any high pressure meds at the time as not yet diagnosed. That came years later.

I had to use cialis because I'd had my prostate removed.

I wasn't on any drugs at all then ( except cialis ). Happy days.

Edited July 27, 2020 by thaibeachlovers