Why Assimilate?

[Luckydog]

Back in the UK I would often nod in agreement at complaints that Immigrants did not appear to want to assimilate into British society.

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs........."Why should we" he replied " We don't like your Customs and Culture".

So I asked "Why are you here then?"

"Because we can have a better standard of living" was his reply.

Now I find myself seeing his point of view more clearly.......

I have almost no desire to 'Go native'. Although I respect Thai Culture, it is not MY Culture.

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

I quite like Buddhism. But it is NOT my Religion. So I don't go to the Temple with my Wife.

I don't support MY Family in the UK. So why should I support HER Family, who are almost complete strangers?

But,I happily give my beloved Wife a better standard of living than she ever dreamed of.......

Yeah! Yeah! I hear the "When in Rome" brigade firing salvoes. But I don't think I am being unreasonable do you?

I worked very hard for every penny I have, and I object to the idea that I must now meekly hand it over.......After all if I get sick I will need it to pay the Hospital bills.

[GuestHouse]

Yeah! Yeah! I hear the "When in Rome" brigade firing salvoes.

I am in Rome...

My first shot across your bows.

'Feel free to do your own thing'

So long as you have sufficient money to spend, Thailand is happy to have you.

[JimmyTheMook]

Back in the UK I would often nod in agreement at complaints that Immigrants did not appear to want to assimilate into British society.

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs........."Why should we" he replied " We don't like your Customs and Culture".

So I asked "Why are you here then?"

"Because we can have a better standard of living" was his reply.

Now I find myself seeing his point of view more clearly.......

I have almost no desire to 'Go native'. Although I respect Thai Culture, it is not MY Culture.

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

I quite like Buddhism. But it is NOT my Religion. So I don't go to the Temple with my Wife.

I don't support MY Family in the UK. So why should I support HER Family, who are almost complete strangers?

But,I happily give my beloved Wife a better standard of living than she ever dreamed of.......

Yeah! Yeah! I hear the "When in Rome" brigade firing salvoes. But I don't think I am being unreasonable do you?

I worked very hard for every penny I have, and I object to the idea that I must now meekly hand it over.......After all if I get sick I will need it to pay the Hospital bills.

You sound like an absolute delight

[pampal]

I agree with your views on assimilation,

Did the Europeans assimilate to Native American ways when they went to the new world?

It's your choice in the end

Edited April 19, 2007 by pampal

[buriramboy]

i would presume it depends on where you choose to live in Thailand, you could quite easily live in Pattaya, Phuket or Bangkok without Assimilating (???) into any kind of 'Thai way of life' , however if you are living in a village in rural Isaan i would imagine life could be lonely or not that enjoyable if you made no effort to assimilate into the local community. But at the end of the day each to their own.

BB

[chownah]

Sounds good to me....its all up to you....in Thailand you don't have to assimilate to have fun and friends....that's one of the main differences between Thai culture and Borg culture.

Chownah

Edited April 19, 2007 by chownah

[KhunMarco]

Back in the UK I would often nod in agreement at complaints that Immigrants did not appear to want to assimilate into British society.

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs........."Why should we" he replied " We don't like your Customs and Culture".

So I asked "Why are you here then?"

"Because we can have a better standard of living" was his reply.

Now I find myself seeing his point of view more clearly.......

I have almost no desire to 'Go native'. Although I respect Thai Culture, it is not MY Culture.

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

I quite like Buddhism. But it is NOT my Religion. So I don't go to the Temple with my Wife.

I don't support MY Family in the UK. So why should I support HER Family, who are almost complete strangers?

But,I happily give my beloved Wife a better standard of living than she ever dreamed of.......

Yeah! Yeah! I hear the "When in Rome" brigade firing salvoes. But I don't think I am being unreasonable do you?

I worked very hard for every penny I have, and I object to the idea that I must now meekly hand it over.......After all if I get sick I will need it to pay the Hospital bills.

Having a bad day?

You sound a bit like a kid " don't touch my toys, they are mine" and then complaining " Nobody wants to play with me" or I'm reading too much between the lines?

[chanchao]

You can do whatever you want, it's a relatively free country.

And if at some point in the future people start expressing feelings similar to what that Pakistani family might occasionally receive in the UK then I'm sure you'll find your way back to this forum to complain about it won't you..

Ultimately though, people assimilate because they WANT to, no other reasons. Again you can do whatever you want.

[ProThaiExpat]

This thread seems to generate more heartfelt sympathy for a politically incorrect point of view than I have seen in years past in Thaivisa. I am pleased to note it.

It was only a couple of years ago when we would see very derogative posts about falang who chose to live their lives in Thailand as if they were living at home.

Not only was it politically correct to integrate into Thai ways, but even those who chose to eat western food, as opposed to Thai food, were missing something, so the jargon went.

Remember the post from the guy who put tourists down who used Planet Earth guidebooks instead of standing in front of a train station clueless but blundering on for the "adventure" of it. He even when on to say you were missing the "real Thailand" unless you went unguided.

During the days of the British Empire, Brits overseas were derided for "going native". That has all changed and it is politically correct to do it now.

As for retirees, why shouldn't they move to a foreign country for economic reasons and enjoy their golden years in familiar surroundings they create in the foreign country and with the conveniences they had at home.

Bravo, Luckydog. I am with you.

[jdinasia]

Back in the UK I would often nod in agreement at complaints that Immigrants did not appear to want to assimilate into British society.

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs........."Why should we" he replied " We don't like your Customs and Culture".

So I asked "Why are you here then?"

"Because we can have a better standard of living" was his reply.

Now I find myself seeing his point of view more clearly.......

I have almost no desire to 'Go native'. Although I respect Thai Culture, it is not MY Culture.

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

I quite like Buddhism. But it is NOT my Religion. So I don't go to the Temple with my Wife.

I don't support MY Family in the UK. So why should I support HER Family, who are almost complete strangers?

But,I happily give my beloved Wife a better standard of living than she ever dreamed of.......

Yeah! Yeah! I hear the "When in Rome" brigade firing salvoes. But I don't think I am being unreasonable do you?

I worked very hard for every penny I have, and I object to the idea that I must now meekly hand it over.......After all if I get sick I will need it to pay the Hospital bills.

so your point is your wife wants to help her family? oi!

But I am guessing you asked the Pakistani using English in England .... could you answer in Thai why you don't want to 'assimilate' here?

tons of folks are just cheap ... I understand that. You have the right to be cheap ... she has the right to find that unacceptable

Good luck!

[samtam]

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs

Surely an important difference for the Pakistani is that he's a British subject, he can vote, he gets the (dubious) benefit of the NHS, etc etc. In Thailand a foreigner gets none of that.

There is really a very important distinction.

[qwertz]

quote from OP: I don't support MY Family in the UK. So why should I support HER Family, who are almost complete strangers?

But,I happily give my beloved Wife a better standard of living than she ever dreamed of.......

The relevant questions are - would your wife's family help you in a time of real need? Would you get free medical treatment? Do you have voting rights? Are you able to get around without learning the language? Would your religion, whatever it is, be tolerated? Do you pay the same price for things although you're not a national?

If the answer is no to any of these, don't assimilate, you already have less rights than a Pakistani in England or a Turk over here. Just enjoy the benefits, there must be some as you're there.

[Jet Gorgon]

Did the Europeans assimilate to Native American ways when they went to the new world?

Some did Pampal, some did, but for the most part, the pale-faced ones could not build a smoke-free fire in a teepee, build birch bark canoes, use every part of every animal killed for food and basic necessities, use a bow and arrow while riding bareback, or select the correct wine to go with the many varieties of pemmican on the menu. Pretty useless to any Indian camp or war party.

[endure]

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs

Surely an important difference for the Pakistani is that he's a British subject, he can vote, he gets the (dubious) benefit of the NHS, etc etc. In Thailand a foreigner gets none of that.

Why should a Pakistani necessarily be a British subject?

[Richard W]

Why should a Pakistani necessarily be a British subject?

Depends what you mean by the term. In its older meaning, it's almost synonymous with the modern term 'Commonwealth citizen'. A Pakistani living in Britain would most probably be a citizen of at least one of the UK and Pakistan, and Pakistan was readmitted to the Commonwealth in 1989. In either case, as an adult he would with rare exceptions be entitled to vote, regardless of immigration status.

More prosaically, most Pakistani men long resident in the UK are qualified for British cirtizenship. They don't have to pass the 'cricket test', though nowadays they have to swear allegiance to the Queen to become British citizens.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Richard W

[torito]

Back in the UK I would often nod in agreement at complaints that Immigrants did not appear to want to assimilate into British society.

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs........."Why should we" he replied " We don't like your Customs and Culture".

So I asked "Why are you here then?"

"Because we can have a better standard of living" was his reply.

Now I find myself seeing his point of view more clearly.......

I have almost no desire to 'Go native'. Although I respect Thai Culture, it is not MY Culture.

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

I quite like Buddhism. But it is NOT my Religion. So I don't go to the Temple with my Wife.

I don't support MY Family in the UK. So why should I support HER Family, who are almost complete strangers?

But,I happily give my beloved Wife a better standard of living than she ever dreamed of.......

Yeah! Yeah! I hear the "When in Rome" brigade firing salvoes. But I don't think I am being unreasonable do you?

I worked very hard for every penny I have, and I object to the idea that I must now meekly hand it over.......After all if I get sick I will need it to pay the Hospital bills.

Having a bad day?

You sound a bit like a kid " don't touch my toys, they are mine" and then complaining " Nobody wants to play with me" or I'm reading too much between the lines?

I am reading the same than you 'KhunMarco'...

I have never heard that we have to assimilate...in fact we are so much in control that most times we make them to assimilate to us, and when we do it, it is for choice or convenience of the moment....

[cdnvic]

I don't think the issue for the Pakistani in the UK, or the Brit living in Thailand is one of should they or should they not assimilate, but that neither should expect their adopted homes to change any to accommodate their ways.

If either finds trouble due to their refusal to adapt to some of the local ways then they have no reason to complain either.

[endure]

Why should a Pakistani necessarily be a British subject?

Depends what you mean by the term. In its older meaning, it's almost synonymous with the modern term 'Commonwealth citizen'. A Pakistani living in Britain would most probably be a citizen of at least one of the UK and Pakistan, and Pakistan was readmitted to the Commonwealth in 1989. In either case, as an adult he would with rare exceptions be entitled to vote, regardless of immigration status.

More prosaically, most Pakistani men long resident in the UK are qualified for British cirtizenship. They don't have to pass the 'cricket test', though nowadays they have to swear allegiance to the Queen to become British citizens.

I assume they'd have to do the 'Life in the UK' test if they didn't already have citizenship.

[PhilHarries]

As GH says, it's really down to what makes you happy and settled in any country but I always have found even a little assimilation makes things easier and gets a few appreciative nods and smiles.

But it depends on what you mean by "assimilate".

Learning the language? The very least you should do is learn the basic greetings.

Eat the food? Depends on your tastes and constitution.

Eating your dinner sat on a rattan mat on the floor? I've done that but not very often, too bluddy uncomfortable.

Smoking Falling Rain or Krong Thip 90's and drinking Lao Khao? Never smoked but have downed a few Lao Khao's with the locals.

Riding a mo'cy in jeans, tee shirt and flip flops with your kids on the back? No effin way!

So there are degrees of assimilation, how far you go depends on you and your location.

It's funny though, the people back in the UK who complain about immigrants not assimilating and all living together in ghettos. These are the same Brits who go to live in France, Spain or Thailand in little communities preserving their little customs within the walls of their Little Britain.

In Bahrain, the only M. E. country I've worked in, about 20 years ago the local English language newspaper ran a spoof weekly column about a new sub-species of homo sapiens they dubbed "compound man". This was all about the expat communities that stuck together in walled compounds according to their nationality. So you had the British, the American, the German, the Italian etc compounds and rarely would they mix socially. It was written very much tongue in cheek and made hilarious reading mainly because so much of it was true if a little exaggerated.

[tartempion]

Assimilate?

Impossible.

As a Belgian I went to work in many countries: France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, USA, Canada, Hong Kong, Dubai, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand.

Believe me, when I worked in Portugal I understood "assimilating" is impossible.

Never will I be able to act like a Portugese, French, German.

Like a Thai????

Adapt: yes, assimilate? Never.

[Furbie]

I think it is important to note it is easier to assimilate into some Western countries. You can move to the US and get citizenship (though it can be a hard road for some, an entire generation of my family did it in the 60's) - try that in Thailand. In the west, the law will generally treat you equally, no matter where you are from, not so in Thailand, that makes it hard as government is not on your side in a pinch. While some people will always remain bigoted and not want foreigners in their country, you have a better chance in the west. As such, I think it would be very, very hard for a Westerner to truly assimilate into Thailand.

I try to adapt the best of each culture to my lifestyle. I eat both types of food, have worked very hard to adopt a "jai yen" attitude, learned the language, learned to lower myself when walking past my boss or a senior Thai, and do my best to respect the major cultural taboos. However, I have no plans to become a Buddhist, hold back my opinion in a board meeting because my boss' is contrary, or let my future children run wild. Why would I assimilate to this degree, there are aspects of the Thai culture and belief system I feel are better suited to my life, and my life here is better because I have adopted them.

[Maigo6]

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

So inside your house the climate is terrible and the people are miserable ?

[cdnvic]

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

So inside your house the climate is terrible and the people are miserable ?

and the food is <deleted>

[Maigo6]

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

So inside your house the climate is terrible and the people are miserable ?

and the food is <deleted>

[samran]

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

So inside your house the climate is terrible and the people are miserable ?

and the food is <deleted>

and they never wash......

[gummy]

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

So inside your house the climate is terrible and the people are miserable ?

and the food is <deleted>

and they never wash......

What a cheek, ! at least monthly by tradition although I was standing in the Tesco queue last night and it appears that this particular Thai man had also embraced the theory of water conservation.

[Neeranam]

Met a bloke last night who was from London and been here for 17 months already. He wasn't going to learn any Thai as all the educated Thais could speak English. He had UBC and got football in English. He was down the pub(expat) everyday anyway. He should really learn the language so that he can understand what people he meets are saying about him to his gf, who doesn't speak any English.

[JacksonGlurk]

This thread seems to generate more heartfelt sympathy for a politically incorrect point of view than I have seen in years past in Thaivisa. I am pleased to note it.

It was only a couple of years ago when we would see very derogative posts about falang who chose to live their lives in Thailand as if they were living at home.

Not only was it politically correct to integrate into Thai ways, but even those who chose to eat western food, as opposed to Thai food, were missing something, so the jargon went.

Remember the post from the guy who put tourists down who used Planet Earth guidebooks instead of standing in front of a train station clueless but blundering on for the "adventure" of it. He even when on to say you were missing the "real Thailand" unless you went unguided.

During the days of the British Empire, Brits overseas were derided for "going native". That has all changed and it is politically correct to do it now.

As for retirees, why shouldn't they move to a foreign country for economic reasons and enjoy their golden years in familiar surroundings they create in the foreign country and with the conveniences they had at home.

Bravo, Luckydog. I am with you.

Thank you for a post of exceptional intelligence and maturity in a place that is little noted for either.

[teacup]

As a thai, it doesn't anger me, but it does disappoint me a lot. I think it's just common courtesy to learn the host countries language and customs if your stay is permanent or prolonged, so you can blend in better, but it's rather obvious that some of these people don't share my view. Rather, they huddle together, most times in the overrated tourisy spots. This kind of existence encourages them very little to go and expand their horizons. I don’t know, may be this is how they used to live where they came from, they're just doing it in another country now. I also hear many say , "This isn't my country!". Well...why do they come then if they hate it? Why don't they stay home and make their country better?

Life could get better for them here in thailand, but they have to make the effort for it. Who knows may be they are afraid of the unknown out there? However, if they're illegal, catch them and ship them out!

Just like my uncle used to say to me about this topic, that ….”It doesn't bother me that they don't try to assimilate. I would rather have them stay the way they are(if that's what they choose). It shows me who I want to be with, and who I want to avoid. The lines are very clear, and I appreciate that they’re the one who drew the line first, not I!” But it will probably anger him a lot if and when these farangs move into his territory/neighborhood and try to make his area adjust itself to suit their cultural or religous practices!

Bravo to those who did atleast try, even though they didn't make it.

[Maizefarmer]

Back in the UK I would often nod in agreement at complaints that Immigrants did not appear to want to assimilate into British society.

In fact I actually asked a Pakistani why he and his family lived in UK but retained their Asian

customs........."Why should we" he replied " We don't like your Customs and Culture".

So I asked "Why are you here then?"

"Because we can have a better standard of living" was his reply.

Now I find myself seeing his point of view more clearly.......

I have almost no desire to 'Go native'. Although I respect Thai Culture, it is not MY Culture.

When I am inside my House, as far as I am concerned, IT IS ENGLAND!

I quite like Buddhism. But it is NOT my Religion. So I don't go to the Temple with my Wife.

I don't support MY Family in the UK. So why should I support HER Family, who are almost complete strangers?

But,I happily give my beloved Wife a better standard of living than she ever dreamed of.......

Yeah! Yeah! I hear the "When in Rome" brigade firing salvoes. But I don't think I am being unreasonable do you?

I worked very hard for every penny I have, and I object to the idea that I must now meekly hand it over.......After all if I get sick I will need it to pay the Hospital bills.

Thats fine, you're free to make that choice ...... but just why was it you left the UK to live in Thailand?

MF