bull farm

[Kallemann]

hi.

My mother and father in law have 17 rai, where they makes rice.

they have 3 cows, but i pity the cows, they look very skinny.

this is in south Buriram.

I come from Norway, and have experience with farm here, mostly growing bulls, selling for beef.

 

my parents in law tell me i can "take controll" of their farm, if i have good idea about drifting it.

Ive been thinking about this for long time, and i think it sounds interesteing to start growing bull, to sell for beef production.

 

what can i do with 17 rai?

i want to grow grass on some of the rais, maybe 5 or 10 rai. (what grass is good for feed and pasture the bulls? and what grass have good growing in thai climate?) Mulato II? Elephant grass?

i will make an easy, but good, cow-shed. easy for feeding, and to take out manure.

i will use manure to put on the fields when plowing or during rain season.

i been thinking to cut grass and make dry grass (bailing), for feeding them in the rain season.(good idea?)

this is roughly how it is done in norway, but i dont know if this i right way to do it in thai? what you think guys?

 

i will put a little money in making it easy to maintenance, easy to keep cleen, so father inlaw keep the farm and animals good, when im back in Norway.

 

i really have interest about farming, so thats why i want to do this.

i am now 38 yrs old, and what i am "thinking" about this, is that now i do this,

so family in law there will have good working conditions, and hopefully farms pay off, so they can have profit of it. and they also help me to build this farm bigger and bigger.

and when i am 60 yrs, and stop working in Norway, i will move over there, and hopefully farm is big enough, easy enough driven, so i can have good retirement in thailand.

 

what you think guys, am i crazy thinking about this?

[djayz]

1 hour ago, Kallemann said:

what you think guys, am i crazy thinking about this?

Yes. Forgive my bluntness.

 

Never mix family/friends and business. If you want to start farming, etc. here, buy land in your wife's/child's name and do everything separately from others in the family. Your family-in-law have skinny cows, no shed, etc., because they have absolutely nothing. They're a dead-weight and they'll drag you down with 'em. 

 

Why are you even thinking of building up THEIR farm? 

 

Sorry if I'm too direct. Not trying to insult you or the family in law. If everything is srparate, there can be no misunderstandings. 

[AndyAndyAndy]

That is a very stupid idea in Thailand. Don't do it.

[colinneil]

6 hours ago, Kallemann said:

what you think guys, am i crazy thinking about this?

You ask if we think you are crazy..... Yes i do think you are crazy.

Prakonchai, lived there, lost everything to a scheming woman there.

Dont do it, it has a 99% chance of failure.

[ezzra]

To put is even more bluntly, you're no a Thai and as such sat out of in laws and family business because at the end, what theirs is theirs and what yours is also theirs...

[djayz]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

You ask if we think you are crazy..... Yes i do think you are crazy.

Prakonchai, lived there, lost everything to a scheming woman there.

Dont do it, it has a 99% chance of failure.

No disrespect Colin, but 99% chance of failure is a bit exaggerated. There are a lot of us here, myself included, who have bought houses, farms, etc. here with our Thai partners and we haven't had a single problem. 

I feel that we can be a little too harsh at times and often wrongly accuse them of all kinds of things. After 12-13 years with my missus, my experience has been nothing but good. If you have the right lass from a decent family, you'll never look back. Hers have never, not once in that time, asked me for a single penny or to buy/manage their land. 

 

 

To the OP: if my memory serves me correctly, you have posted a few similar messages here over the past few weeks - all with the same underlying tone, namely your money => her family in the form of buying them cows, building sheds, land, etc. I would be extremely careful of your teerak if I were you. 

[colinneil]

Just now, djayz said:

No disrespect Colin, but 99% chance of failure is a bit exaggerated. There are a lot of us here, myself included, who have bought houses, farms, etc. here with our Thai partners and we haven't had a single problem. 

I feel that we can be a little too harsh at times and often wrongly accuse them of all kinds of things. After 12-13 years with my missus, my experience has been nothing but good. If you have the right lass from a decent family, you'll never look back. Hers have never, not once in that time, asked me for a single penny or to buy/manage their land. 

 

 

To the OP: if my memory serves me correctly, you have posted a few similar messages here over the past few weeks - all with the same underlying tone, namely your money => her family in the form of buying them cows, building sheds, land, etc. I would be extremely careful of your teerak if I were you. 

I think you miss understood my post, i did not say 99% of relationships fail.

I said that the OPs project had  99% chance of failure, not quite the same.

I have had both good and bad relationships here.

I feel my present 1 is good, 1 reason for that, my wifes greedy thieving family are kept out.

Before i did that, anything/ everything they could steal they did, during my time in hospital, more than 200.000 bahts worth of tools/ equipment was stolen by my wifes family.

Building on his in laws land, a recipe for disaster, during the building everything will be fine, then later he will end up being pushed aside, in law he would not have a leg to stand on.

[Kallemann]

I am sorry to hear all the negativity about this.

let me explain, my in`laws, and my tirak, have never asked me about money. only reason why i will (maybe) do this, is because my interest about farming is big, and i do before about farming here in Norway. so i am experienced about the practical part, Norway style. And i think i have idea of how i can make their farm more effective, and how to earn money.

if i have no interest about farming, i would not think like this at all...

 

but i am really sorry to hear all the negativity.

if you all feel so much negativity, why you continue to stay in thai?

 

i only have good experience with my tirak, and her family.

 

 

[djayz]

1 hour ago, colinneil said:

I think you miss understood my post, i did not say 99% of relationships fail.

I said that the OPs project had  99% chance of failure, not quite the same.

I have had both good and bad relationships here.

I feel my present 1 is good, 1 reason for that, my wifes greedy thieving family are kept out.

Before i did that, anything/ everything they could steal they did, during my time in hospital, more than 200.000 bahts worth of tools/ equipment was stolen by my wifes family.

Building on his in laws land, a recipe for disaster, during the building everything will be fine, then later he will end up being pushed aside, in law he would not have a leg to stand on.

Reading back over your post, I now see that I misunderstood. Apologies. No harm intended. 

[djayz]

1 hour ago, Kallemann said:

I am sorry to hear all the negativity about this.

let me explain, my in`laws, and my tirak, have never asked me about money. only reason why i will (maybe) do this, is because my interest about farming is big, and i do before about farming here in Norway. so i am experienced about the practical part, Norway style. And i think i have idea of how i can make their farm more effective, and how to earn money.

if i have no interest about farming, i would not think like this at all...

 

but i am really sorry to hear all the negativity.

if you all feel so much negativity, why you continue to stay in thai?

 

i only have good experience with my tirak, and her family.

 

 

It might appear to be a lot of negativity, but it's advice from those of us who don't wear rose tinted glasses. It's meant, by most, in the best possible way and often comes from people who have considerably more experience, sometimes even firsthand experience, with similar situations. 

 

I for one wish you all the best and sincerely hope your dreams pan out. 

 

Feel free to keep us updated on how your project develops. 

 

Good luck! 

[Kallemann]

@djayz 

yes, i can understand that. and i am gratefull for all advice. I am just little bit surprised so many negative about family in law...

 

anyway, if i want to do this, what will be in practical way, the best way to make enough food for cattle?

last day i read about making silage, instead of dry grass?

i read about species of grass for use in thailand. (mulato II?)

 

i want more advice about the practical part of this "project", and i will consider if i will do this or not.

 

make hay? make silage?

what grass is good for doing hay/silage/grazing?

how many rai should i turn into grass?

 

I will keep this post updated as best i can.

 

thanks for all advice.

[colinneil]

4 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

I am just little bit surprised so many negative about family in law...

You are surprised, well mate dont be, if you get into your project be very very careful.

Inlaws/ outlaws here can and do scam farangs out of everything they can.

You think i am being negative, spent almost 9 years putting up with thieving outlaws, notice i said outlaws, not inlaws, because that is what they are.

If you are keen on having cattle make sure it is on land owned by your partner, not her family.

[Kallemann]

@colinneil , i am sorry to hear about youre experience.i really am.

 

i have been together with my wife for some while, and visited her family many times. and i never get the impression that they are "outlaws", as you say. they have as i said before, never ask about money, and i feel really good when we are there, to visit them.

 

if i have bad feeling, or suspiscious devices, i will never consider doing this project.

 

reason i want to do this;

*I really interesting about farming.

*i do this for me and my wifes future. (when we retire)

*try to give my INlaws good condition to help themselves to make their own money.

*and i have feeling this family is true to me, and not fake/scam.

 

IF i will do this, i will tell my inlaw, to sell or give the land where i will make buildings (shed for cattle) to my wife. (contract thats makes clear that she own the land and buildings we will make.) we dont have children, so have to be in my wifes name...

[Michael Hare]

My advice to Mr Kallemann is to plant your grass before you buy any cows or build a shed. If your grass grows well, then you can buy your cows. If the grass does not grow well and you buy your cows, you will be spending a lot of money on buying in concentrates. For the suitable species of grass look at Ubon Forage Seeds website https://www.ubonforageseeds.com/en/

[Kallemann]

@Michael Hare , Thanks. Good tips.

 

not easy to grow grass in thai?

because of long time of dry and rain season?

[Michael Hare]

17 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

@Michael Hare , Thanks. Good tips.

 

not easy to grow grass in thai?

because of long time of dry and rain season?

Both. Often too dry (Nov to April) and too wet (August-September). Also the very low ferility soils in many places make growing productive grasses difficult. I would advise having some sort of irrigation system to give you a supply of grass all year around. 

[Kallemann]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Both. Often too dry (Nov to April) and too wet (August-September). Also the very low ferility soils in many places make growing productive grasses difficult. I would advise having some sort of irrigation system to give you a supply of grass all year around. 

ok. understand.

i will try to figure out something about irrigation in an easy and cheap way, but also effective.

[Bob A Kneale]

Before you worry about the grass shouldn't you worry about whether a profession that foreigners are not allowed in is a good idea?

Edited June 22, 2020 by Bob A Kneale

[kingofthemountain]

15 hours ago, Kallemann said:

 

i will put a little money in making it easy to maintenance, easy to keep cleen, so father inlaw keep the farm and animals good, when im back in Norway.

 

i really have interest about farming, so thats why i want to do this.

i am now 38 yrs old, and what i am "thinking" about this, is that now i do this,

so family in law there will have good working conditions, and hopefully farms pay off, so they can have profit of it. and they also help me to build this farm bigger and bigger.

and when i am 60 yrs, and stop working in Norway, i will move over there, and hopefully farm is big enough, easy enough driven, so i can have good retirement in thailand.

 

what you think guys, am i crazy thinking about this?

Hi

i don't want to be pessimist and i understand your project

however you need to consider some things

 

first you will not be allowed to work on ''your'' farm in any way under the thai law

''Under Thai Law foreigners are prohibited to engage in any of the following occupations.

• Manual work.
• Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision.
• Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works.
• Wood carving. ''

i know a lot of foreigners do it, but time to time, particularly if you are successful

or if a Thai for some reasons don't like you, immigration comes to pick one of them 

and they are deported. I am sure you don't want to be a retired with this threat on your head.

 

If you do it, you must be prepared to ''invest'' a lot of money, i mean to lost a lot

of money, and forever

the losses are for you, but the profits if they come are for the Thais, ever

so be prepared to be sollicited every time when there is something to buy

and be prepared to listen a lot of fakes excuses when you ask about the non profits.

 

And to finish i am sure you know how to do in Norway. but here in Thailand all is different

and if you are not thai and you don'tspeak thai, even the little easy thing in your business

could be very difficult, and your thai family helpless because this is a new business for they

they don't have the knowledges and the network of people to deal with this.

 

Imo if you do it, you have only problems ahead you, and probably the whole thing

could end your relation with your girlfriend too.

 

Goodluck anyway

[Michael Hare]

Of all the years I have lived in Thailand, I have never known a "farang" who lives on a viilage farm, being deported for helping out on the farm. 

[Kallemann]

35 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Hi

i don't want to be pessimist and i understand your project

however you need to consider some things

 

first you will not be allowed to work on ''your'' farm in any way under the thai law

''Under Thai Law foreigners are prohibited to engage in any of the following occupations.

• Manual work.
• Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision.
• Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works.
• Wood carving. ''

i know a lot of foreigners do it, but time to time, particularly if you are successful

or if a Thai for some reasons don't like you, immigration comes to pick one of them 

and they are deported. I am sure you don't want to be a retired with this threat on your head.

 

If you do it, you must be prepared to ''invest'' a lot of money, i mean to lost a lot

of money, and forever

the losses are for you, but the profits if they come are for the Thais, ever

so be prepared to be sollicited every time when there is something to buy

and be prepared to listen a lot of fakes excuses when you ask about the non profits.

 

And to finish i am sure you know how to do in Norway. but here in Thailand all is different

and if you are not thai and you don'tspeak thai, even the little easy thing in your business

could be very difficult, and your thai family helpless because this is a new business for they

they don't have the knowledges and the network of people to deal with this.

 

Imo if you do it, you have only problems ahead you, and probably the whole thing

could end your relation with your girlfriend too.

 

Goodluck anyway

thanks for input.

i know about the rule, that i can not work there.

but basically i will not do the work, i will just "tell them what and how to do" ???? but i know myself, so i know i will be doing little bit, but basically i will teach inlaws, and some relatives how to do...

 

i also know i should think about the critical sides of this "project". 

When it comes to the money income and outgoing, my wife will be controlling, kind of like a middle man. or "broker" between me and inlaws.

if they manage to make this "project" to have income, i will be happy to let them have the benefit of earning those money.

 

i dont know how to exactly explain this, but i try;

This project is for me an investment for me and my wife, til we retire. and in meentime it will make a good and modern workplace for my inlaws. And hopefully when we retire, it is so "big" and easily driven workplace, that we can have benefits from it, and maybe some neighbour boy(s) can do the work for us...

 

maybe i should stop dream about this, and just forget everything about farming there... but i really interest and excited bout this...

[473geo]

Nothing wrong with your plan, you have many years of revenue earning ahead prior to your anticipated move to Thailand

Just ease into the process through time, spread the cost and treat as a hobby that may eventually bring in a little revenue but not really expected to repay the small initial outlay

Thing is to keep it simple, initially use cheap manual labour where possible rather than purchase expensive machinery

Look into the feed process, as you are, getting condition on the current cattle is important, because in the future if you are breeding, or fattening, you will need to introduce quality. You know already a person will spend the same time taking care of a low quality animal as a high quality animal, the returns on the quality cattle are usually better.

We don't grow grass as in the 'meadow land' of Europe to provide hay, rice straw, with hand feed and a type of grass my wife transplanted from the local pond is keeping our cattle going. cows currently take a hammering when feeding the calves and grass is in short supply in the dry season, so we have recently put in a bore and pump to irrigate. The final set up TBA

Non of our hobby farming has cost a great deal of money my wife and family enjoy doing the work we have just gradually over the years moved things forward no rush no great expense

I am thoroughly enjoying the experience coming from a farming background. Pleased to see my family enjoy caring for and improving to quality cattle. Lovely to see the top quality Charolais bull my son had chosen to use on his cow, because he wants a bull calf to sell this time, as last time had a heifer we will keep to breed off ???? can't blame him for wanting to see a little return

I love helping on the farm, keeps me active, great way to live in rural Thailand. Fits my view that life is not all about money.

 

 

 

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Of all the years I have lived in Thailand, I have never known a "farang" who lives on a viilage farm, being deported for helping out on the farm. 

Please feel free to ask at your next visit at your immigration office if you can

as a farang work on ''your'' farm without any risk of problems under the actual law

I am really very interested to hear their answer.

I am sure the OP will be intersted too, if he wants to be a carefree retiree

Edited June 22, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Kallemann]

4 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Nothing wrong with your plan, you have many years of revenue earning ahead prior to your anticipated move to Thailand

Just ease into the process through time, spread the cost and treat as a hobby that may eventually bring in a little revenue but not really expected to repay the small initial outlay

Thing is to keep it simple, initially use cheap manual labour where possible rather than purchase expensive machinery

Look into the feed process, as you are, getting condition on the current cattle is important, because in the future if you are breeding, or fattening, you will need to introduce quality. You know already a person will spend the same time taking care of a low quality animal as a high quality animal, the returns on the quality cattle are usually better.

We don't grow grass as in the 'meadow land' of Europe to provide hay, rice straw, with hand feed and a type of grass my wife transplanted from the local pond is keeping our cattle going. cows currently take a hammering when feeding the calves and grass is in short supply in the dry season, so we have recently put in a bore and pump to irrigate. The final set up TBA

Non of our hobby farming has cost a great deal of money my wife and family enjoy doing the work we have just gradually over the years moved things forward no rush no great expense

I am thoroughly enjoying the experience coming from a farming background. Pleased to see my family enjoy caring for and improving to quality cattle. Lovely to see the top quality Charolais bull my son had chosen to use on his cow, because he wants a bull calf to sell this time, as last time had a heifer we will keep to breed off ???? can't blame him for wanting to see a little return

I love helping on the farm, keeps me active, great way to live in rural Thailand. Fits my view that life is not all about money.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for positive input. 

youre last sentence, i totally agree. it is not all about money...

 

i think we have little bit the same "vision" about this.

i would love to get more an more quality on the cattle, and i think when inlaws see the quality getting better and better, they will be happy too. and then we all will feel good. even the cattle ???? 

 

you say have little food for dry season, you dont have any food in stock for when dry season come?

 

[kingofthemountain]

13 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Nothing wrong with your plan, you have many years of revenue earning ahead prior to your anticipated move to Thailand

Just ease into the process through time, spread the cost and treat as a hobby that may eventually bring in a little revenue but not really expected to repay the small initial outlay

Thing is to keep it simple, initially use cheap manual labour where possible rather than purchase expensive machinery

Look into the feed process, as you are, getting condition on the current cattle is important, because in the future if you are breeding, or fattening, you will need to introduce quality. You know already a person will spend the same time taking care of a low quality animal as a high quality animal, the returns on the quality cattle are usually better.

We don't grow grass as in the 'meadow land' of Europe to provide hay, rice straw, with hand feed and a type of grass my wife transplanted from the local pond is keeping our cattle going. cows currently take a hammering when feeding the calves and grass is in short supply in the dry season, so we have recently put in a bore and pump to irrigate. The final set up TBA

Non of our hobby farming has cost a great deal of money my wife and family enjoy doing the work we have just gradually over the years moved things forward no rush no great expense

I am thoroughly enjoying the experience coming from a farming background. Pleased to see my family enjoy caring for and improving to quality cattle. Lovely to see the top quality Charolais bull my son had chosen to use on his cow, because he wants a bull calf to sell this time, as last time had a heifer we will keep to breed off ???? can't blame him for wanting to see a little return

I love helping on the farm, keeps me active, great way to live in rural Thailand. Fits my view that life is not all about money.

 

 

 

 

 

You have been succesful and i am happy for you

however you don't talk precisely how much money you have put

in the process and what was the start situation.

In the OP case, the relatives are actually growing rice

if they stop to do it for a cattle, how many time before they can have some cash?

And what happens if the cattle is lost because of a sickness? You need to put money

on the table all year long for eat and pay the bills, and

the OP will be sollicited for pay all the cost of the entire family for the year, because 

after all it was his idea

you just have to think about it imo

Edited June 22, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[473geo]

Just now, Kallemann said:

Thanks for positive input. 

youre last sentence, i totally agree. it is not all about money...

 

i think we have little bit the same "vision" about this.

i would love to get more an more quality on the cattle, and i think when inlaws see the quality getting better and better, they will be happy too. and then we all will feel good. even the cattle ???? 

 

you say have little food for dry season, you dont have any food in stock for when dry season come?

 

Baled rice straw, and hand feed is used to supplement, in the dry season. We want to improve the feed, quality but with an efficient cost effective method. At the moment supplying water to grow grass in the dry season appears a reasonable option. I am not too impressed with tall 'tough' grasses and am looking to have a more tender 'leafy' crop not sure how and what yet as a leafy crop will surely have high water demand

 

[Kallemann]

we will keep as many rai as possible to still make rice. thats why i asked how many rai should be turned into grass, if lets say, start with 5 bulls...?
later on, when gets more cattle, can buy more and more land, (in my WIFES name).

want to find balance for how many rai of grass, for how many bulls. and always try to make much as possibile with rice...

[Kallemann]

2 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Baled rice straw, and hand feed is used to supplement, in the dry season. We want to improve the feed, quality but with an efficient cost effective method. At the moment supplying water to grow grass in the dry season appears a reasonable option. I am not too impressed with tall 'tough' grasses and am looking to have a more tender 'leafy' crop not sure how and what yet as a leafy crop will surely have high water demand

 

ok. do you put  cow manure on the field?

last night i read about different grass, and i find this "mulato II"

very interesting.  ----> https://www.tropseeds.com/varieties/

but it dont like flooding water. 

 

to improve the yield of grass field, i think to irrigate in dry season, and put manure before / during rain season will have good impact.

 

 

 

[farang51]

32 minutes ago, Kallemann said:

but basically i will not do the work, i will just "tell them what and how to do" ???? but i know myself, so i know i will be doing little bit, but basically i will teach inlaws, and some relatives how to do...

Besides all the practical stuff others have warned you about:

 

How much time do you spend in Thailand a year?

Are your inlaws open to new ideas and new ways of doing things?

 

I know nothing about farming or farmers but as I understand, Thais can be very stubborn when it comes to new ideas, especially farmers that have done things their way for generations. If you are not there all the time to "tell them what and how to do", you may find they do it their way when you are in Norway. So, next time you come to Thailand, you may see 20 thin cows instead of 4 thin cows.

Edited June 22, 2020 by farang51

[Michael Hare]

17 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Please feel free to ask at your next visit at your immigration office if you can

as a farang work on ''your'' farm without any risk of problems under the actual law

I am really very interested to hear their answer.

I am sure the OP will be intersted too, if he wants to be a carefree retiree

I know the law, but with many laws here in Thailand, it is whether it is implemented or not. Not sure when I will next visit the immigration office as I am permanent resident and only go when I need a re-entry permit. With travel restrictions I might not go out of Thailand for another 3-4 years.