U.S. officials to meet this week on Israel annexation plan

[webfact]

U.S. officials to meet this week on Israel annexation plan

By Steve Holland and Matt Spetalnick

 

FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu talk outside the Oval Office of the White House in Washington, U.S., January 27, 2020. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. officials will gather this week to discuss whether to give Israel a green light for its plan to annex Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank, as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's target date of July 1 approaches.

 

A senior administration official said on Monday that the U.S. ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, will be in Washington to meet officials including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, senior White House adviser Jared Kushner and Middle East envoy Avi Berkowitz. President Donald Trump could also join in.

 

Under Trump’s Middle East peace proposal, unveiled in January, it is envisaged that the United States would recognize the Jewish settlements - built on land that the Palestinians seek for a state - as part of Israel.

 

The proposal would create a Palestinian state as part of a broader peace plan, but impose strict conditions on it. Palestinian leaders have dismissed the initiative entirely.

 

Encouraged by Trump's push, Netanyahu has set July 1 as the date to launch his project of extending sovereignty over the settlements and the Jordan Valley, hoping for a green light from Washington. Most countries view Israel's settlements on occupied land as illegal, and Palestinian leaders have voiced outrage at the prospect of annexation.

 

"Ultimately, as the team approaches this thought of annexation, the main thing going through our heads is, 'Does this in fact help advance the cause of peace?' And therefore that is what will help drive a lot of the discussion," the official said.

 

LIMITED ANNEXATION FIRST?

Among the main options expected to be considered is a step-by-step process in which Israel would initially declare sovereignty over several settlements close to Jerusalem instead of the 30% of the West Bank envisaged in Netanyahu’s original plan, according to a person familiar with the matter.

 

The source said the Trump administration has not closed the door to a larger annexation, but fears that allowing Israel to move too fast could kill any hopes of eventually drawing the Palestinians to sit down to discuss Trump's peace plan.

 

There are also concerns about opposition to annexation from Jordan, one of only two countries that have a peace treaty with Israel, as well from Gulf states that have quietly expanded engagement with Israel in recent years.

 

Washington has also made clear it wants Israel’s unity government, which has been divided on the issue, to reach a consensus before going ahead with any actions, the source said. Defense Minister Benny Gantz, head of the Blue and White Party, has so far been reluctant to back Likud-leader Netanyahu’s plan.

 

Berkowitz has been fielding calls about the Trump plan from European and Arab nations, but the U.S. side has privately expressed frustration that they are not offering constructive ideas on how to amend it, a source familiar with the issue said.

 

(Reporting By Steve Holland and Matt Spetalnick; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-06-23

 

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[KKr]

interesting how some annexations are backed by the US and if RF or China is involved, they are not.
Also interesting is that the de-facto occupier Israel of Palestine since some 70 years, still seeks approval from the US for each further expansion of its territory.
Maybe soon we will see a US invasion into Israel ?

For discussion !



 

[Pedrogaz]

Shameful thuggery by Israel and the US. Time for EU to step up and call the US and Israel out. Total boycott of Israel is needed, financially, commercially, sports, Eurovision song contest etc. 

[Hanuman2547]

Free Palestine!

[Hanuman2547]

19 hours ago, fvw53 said:

Question 1 :  is Israel the 51st US State ? 

 

 

Yes, pretty much.  Last month the US just allocated $38 billion to Israel over the next 10 years.  

[Jingthing]

The Israeli right wingers correctly assume 45 will lose the election so its now or never for the annexation. 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Yes, pretty much.  Last month the US just allocated $38 billion to Israel over the next 10 years.  

Not pretty much. 

Not. 

Period. 

Israel is a sovereign nation. 

It is not a US state. 

People please keep the Israel demonization rhetoric in the realm of reality. 

[Orton Rd]

19 hours ago, KKr said:

interesting how some annexations are backed by the US and if RF or China is involved, they are not.
Also interesting is that the de-facto occupier Israel of Palestine since some 70 years, still seeks approval from the US for each further expansion of its territory.
Maybe soon we will see a US invasion into Israel ?

For discussion !



 

It's all the fualt of the Palestinians trying to destroy Israel with Arab armies attacking them 3 times to wipe them out. Isreal needs as much land as they can as a buffer from these terrorists. It's ironic that those crying about free Palestine could have had 80% of the whole are for a Palestine before WW2, only their resentment at the Jews being offered the other 20% prevented them.

[KKr]

6 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's all the fualt of the Palestinians trying to destroy Israel with Arab armies attacking them 3 times to wipe them out. Isreal needs as much land as they can as a buffer from these terrorists. It's ironic that those crying about free Palestine could have had 80% of the whole are for a Palestine before WW2, only their resentment at the Jews being offered the other 20% prevented them.

Let's assume this situation happened in another country.
People quietly live there in their own way, say in the Netherlands and Germany.
Then comes a foreign army and says we take 20 % of your land for the Frisians because the Frisians say it is their land.
But we are generous and you can keep the rest for yourselves .

Honestly, what would you say to that foreign power ?? 

[dexterm]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The Israeli right wingers correctly assume 45 will lose the election so its now or never for the annexation. 

It's maybe now or never for a Jewish AND democratic state.

If it annexes the West Bank, it can't have both....

..what to do with 3 million indigenous Palestinians it also annexes in the West Bank? Give them equal rights or let them become stateless apartheid non citizens with no vote in how they are governed?

[dexterm]

9 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's all the fualt of the Palestinians trying to destroy Israel with Arab armies attacking them 3 times to wipe them out. Isreal needs as much land as they can as a buffer from these terrorists. It's ironic that those crying about free Palestine could have had 80% of the whole are for a Palestine before WW2, only their resentment at the Jews being offered the other 20% prevented them.

So blame the victim. Zionist apologist doublespeak.

 

The indigenous Palestinians are the colonized not the European colonizers; Palestinians are the invaded, not the European invaders, Palestinians are the illegally occupied not the European occupiers.

Edited June 24, 2020 by dexterm

[johnpetersen]

20 minutes ago, dexterm said:

It's maybe now or never for a Jewish AND democratic state.

If it annexes the West Bank, it can't have both....

..what to do with 3 million indigenous Palestinians it also annexes in the West Bank? Give them equal rights or let them become stateless apartheid non citizens with no vote in how they are governed?

It seems pretty likely that the outcome will be the latter. Polls show that the younger that Israelis are the more indifferent they are to the plight of the Palestinians. So things will only get worse for them.

A poster above recommended looking at the work of Shlomo Sand. While Sand is kind of a loon and very pro-Palestinian. he is actually against a 1 state solution. His reason? The majority of Israelis are too bigoted.

Edited June 24, 2020 by johnpetersen

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, johnpetersen said:

It seems pretty likely that the outcome will be the latter. Polls show that the younger that Israelis are the more indifferent they are to the plight of the Palestinians. So things will only get worse for them.

A poster above recommended looking at the work of Shlomo Sand. While Sand is kind of a loon and very pro-Palestinian. he is actually against a 1 state solution. His reason? The majority of Israelis are too bigoted.

I personally think it will drift towards overt apartheid. No-one has offered a pathway to a viable alternative of a two state solution (approx 67 borders, shared Jerusalem, acknowledgement of Palestinian refugees' right of return) that has been on the table since 1993 Oslo Accords and even earlier...who's going to make it happen..no-one!
 The EU and possible future Biden US administrations (or Trump even more so), who are the only ones with real clout, will offer the usual platitudes of deep "concern' over Israel's illegal annexation. ... Good as far as I am concerned. It makes a one state solution more certain!

Palestinians will soon realize: the possibility of a separate Palestinian state is dead..therefore lets move on and long live a united Israel where Palestinians and Jews share the land in  a truly secular one man one vote democracy. What's wrong with equal rights for all in the same land?

Edited June 24, 2020 by dexterm

[johnpetersen]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

I personally think it will drift towards overt apartheid. No-one has offered the viable alternative of a two state solution (approx 67 borders, shared Jerusalem, acknowledgement of Palestinian refugees' right of return) that has been on the table since 1993 Oslo Accords and even earlier...who's going to make it happen..no-one!
 The EU and possible future Biden US administrations (or Trump even more so), who are the only ones with real clout, will offer the usual platitudes of deep "concern' over Israel's illegal annexation. ... Good as far as I am concerned. It makes a one state solution more certain!

Palestinians will soon realize: the possibility of a sparate Palestinian state is dead..therefore long live a united Israel where Palestinians and Jews share the land in  a truly secular one man one vote democracy.

I would hope so but I don't see why it would happen. The Palestinians are in a minority. Israel will do whatever it takes to suppress them. And the younger generation is much more obdurate than the older. Not only are the major Arab States virtual allies of the Israelis, but the end of the fossil fuel age is approaching way faster than predicted. So even if they were once again support the Palestinians, their clout is going to diminish rapidly.

[dexterm]

42 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

I would hope so but I don't see why it would happen. The Palestinians are in a minority. Israel will do whatever it takes to suppress them. And the younger generation is much more obdurate than the older. Not only are the major Arab States virtual allies of the Israelis, but the end of the fossil fuel age is approaching way faster than predicted. So even if they were once again support the Palestinians, their clout is going to diminish rapidly.

The indigenous Palestinians are the majority population between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. It's only, at the moment, the Israeli gerrymandering of borders that makes them a voting minority. 

 

Of course Israel will do whatever it takes to suppress the indigenous Palestinian majority, but "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.". (Martin Luther King Jr.) All Palestinians need do is stay put. All Israelis can possibly do is ethnically cleanse Palestinians again (version 3.0)  if they want again to manufacture a phony Jewish majority within their state.

The world is watching this time via social and international media. Not sure if Israel or the EU or American Jewry is up for a compulsory "population transfer" (aka ethnic cleansing/genocide).

Edited June 24, 2020 by dexterm

[Morch]

On 6/23/2020 at 6:47 PM, Pedrogaz said:

Shameful thuggery by Israel and the US. Time for EU to step up and call the US and Israel out. Total boycott of Israel is needed, financially, commercially, sports, Eurovision song contest etc. 

 

Considering the EU often finds it challenging to act efficiently on matters more central to member countries, I kinda doubt we'd see a unified active front. Condemnations and such, yes, that's more like the EU's thing.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The Israeli right wingers correctly assume 45 will lose the election so its now or never for the annexation. 

 

Which Israeli right wingers? They aren't really united on this score. Some are well into it (I think Netanyahu's fans are a main force there), others dead set against it (because it implies or may imply a Palestinian state, and because the territorial division, if followed might make things complicated for them as well) - these are mostly hardcore or "ideological" right-winger/settlers.

 

Overall, even among Israeli right-wing voters, there isn't much enthusiasm with the whole thing, never mind the general populace.

[dexterm]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Considering the EU often finds it challenging to act efficiently on matters more central to member countries, I kinda doubt we'd see a unified active front. Condemnations and such, yes, that's more like the EU's thing.

Good...let the EU dither, while the Palestinians remain exactly where they are and Israel's overt apartheid becomes obvious to all. The indigenous majority Palestinians been occupied for 70 years, what difference will it make until they achieve equality?

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's all the fualt of the Palestinians trying to destroy Israel with Arab armies attacking them 3 times to wipe them out. Isreal needs as much land as they can as a buffer from these terrorists. It's ironic that those crying about free Palestine could have had 80% of the whole are for a Palestine before WW2, only their resentment at the Jews being offered the other 20% prevented them.

 

There are enough Israeli generals, security chiefs, and politicians dismissive of the claims Israel needs more land as buffer zone. Further, this "buffer zone" terminology is not usually applied to the Palestinians, but rather to the Jordan Valley, separating Israel and Jordan. There's no such "buffer" on offer between Israel and the Palestinians. If anything, an annexation move will make communities physically closer. I'd advise consulting a map before further posting.

 

 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Good...let the EU dither, while the Palestinians remain exactly where they are and Israel's overt apartheid becomes obvious to all. The indigenous majority Palestinians been occupied for 70 years, what difference will it make until they achieve equality?

 

Good that the Palestinians might enter a lengthy phase of being further oppressed? Perhaps in the eyes of those more invested in armchair revolutions and social engineering. Always easier to prescribe such notions when one doesn't have to suffer the consequences, eh?

[Morch]

6 hours ago, KKr said:

Let's assume this situation happened in another country.
People quietly live there in their own way, say in the Netherlands and Germany.
Then comes a foreign army and says we take 20 % of your land for the Frisians because the Frisians say it is their land.
But we are generous and you can keep the rest for yourselves .

Honestly, what would you say to that foreign power ?? 

 

Yawn.

You want to change history? Go right ahead. You want to rewrite it? That's alright as well.

But do note that neither bears much relevance to current predicament of the Palestinians, nor does the insistence on rejectionism and absolute justice seem to work in their favor. Each and every time they pick this stance, their situation worsens.

 

[olfu]

Land belong to winner.

[dexterm]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yawn.

You want to change history? Go right ahead. You want to rewrite it? That's alright as well.

But do note that neither bears much relevance to current predicament of the Palestinians, nor does the insistence on rejectionism and absolute justice seem to work in their favor. Each and every time they pick this stance, their situation worsens.

 

>>Each and every time they pick this stance, their situation worsens.

On the contrary, you always seem to miss the bigger picture. The majority indigenous Palestinian situation is moving towards an eventual one state solution of equality with their racist supremacist Zionist temporary masters.

[Chelseafan]

On 6/23/2020 at 12:47 PM, Pedrogaz said:

Shameful thuggery by Israel and the US. Time for EU to step up and call the US and Israel out. Total boycott of Israel is needed, financially, commercially, sports, Eurovision song contest etc. 

 

Thuggery ? Why ? According to some its Israeli land which was lost to the Persians circa 600 BC (I'm old fashioned, will get to CE one day)

 

And why are the Arab states not more vocal about this ?

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

I personally think it will drift towards overt apartheid. No-one has offered a pathway to a viable alternative of a two state solution (approx 67 borders, shared Jerusalem, acknowledgement of Palestinian refugees' right of return) that has been on the table since 1993 Oslo Accords and even earlier...who's going to make it happen..no-one!
 The EU and possible future Biden US administrations (or Trump even more so), who are the only ones with real clout, will offer the usual platitudes of deep "concern' over Israel's illegal annexation. ... Good as far as I am concerned. It makes a one state solution more certain!

Palestinians will soon realize: the possibility of a separate Palestinian state is dead..therefore lets move on and long live a united Israel where Palestinians and Jews share the land in  a truly secular one man one vote democracy. What's wrong with equal rights for all in the same land?

 

There were actually quite a few viable suggestions and attempts to achieve a two-state solution. That none became a reality can be attributed to failure on both sides. Ignoring such attempts wholesale in order to support the talking point of the month is sad (considering you mentioned these on past topics), but totally unsurprising.

 

And yes, it is only good as far as you're concerned. Kinda doubt the same could be said about Palestinians and Israelis. Having more trouble and conflict to rant about is the bread and butter of some. Actual people suffering the consequence? Not so much, if it serves the "cause".

 

Your predictions regarding the Palestinians realizing this, and doing that, either demonstrate your lack of knowledge with regard to these people, or more likely, a sham ignoring all them pesky uncomfortable bits. Kinda doubt Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the like will fully embrace your views.

 

Same goes for "secular" - either society boasts its many many religious members. Some on the extreme side. But sure, go ahead and ignore that in favor of fantasies and waffle about "viable suggestions".

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>Each and every time they pick this stance, their situation worsens.

On the contrary, you always seem to miss the bigger picture. The majority indigenous Palestinian situation is moving towards an eventual one state solution of equality with their racist supremacist Zionist temporary masters.

 

There is no bigger picture, other than in your fantasies. In the real world, each and every time that the Palestinians chose the path of rejectionism and violence, their situations worsened. A one-state might be your fantasy, it's not what the Palestinians aspire or aspired for. Other than in your post, there is not such strong pro-democracy tradition and sentiment among Palestinians. Toss in all them vehement terms, still doesn't change reality.

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

 

Thuggery ? Why ? According to some its Israeli land which was lost to the Persians circa 600 BC (I'm old fashioned, will get to CE one day)

 

And why are the Arab states not more vocal about this ?

 

 

Arab states are basically fed up with the Palestinians, with the situation going nowhere, and with returns on strong support for the Palestinians being low. Some of them got bigger fish to fry, others recall Palestinians being somewhat dodgy with allegiances. What with the Palestinians being split into 2-3 factions, and with none of these offering much headway toward dealing with the relevant issues, support is less forthcoming (short of words).

[dexterm]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There were actually quite a few viable suggestions and attempts to achieve a two-state solution. That none became a reality can be attributed to failure on both sides. Ignoring such attempts wholesale in order to support the talking point of the month is sad (considering you mentioned these on past topics), but totally unsurprising.

 

And yes, it is only good as far as you're concerned. Kinda doubt the same could be said about Palestinians and Israelis. Having more trouble and conflict to rant about is the bread and butter of some. Actual people suffering the consequence? Not so much, if it serves the "cause".

 

Your predictions regarding the Palestinians realizing this, and doing that, either demonstrate your lack of knowledge with regard to these people, or more likely, a sham ignoring all them pesky uncomfortable bits. Kinda doubt Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the like will fully embrace your views.

 

Same goes for "secular" - either society boasts its many many religious members. Some on the extreme side. But sure, go ahead and ignore that in favor of fantasies and waffle about "viable suggestions".

Seems to me you are the fringe fantasist that believes a viable two state solution is still possible. Israeli annexation will finally prove that Israel has never truly been interested in a viable two state solution...Zionists have always wanted the lot...the land but not the indigenous Palestinian people. Annexation will be the final nail in the coffin ...good! 

 

If as much energy had been spent on constructing ways to engineer a gradual, peaceful, realistic transfer of shared power in a secular democratic Israel as it has to apartheid checkpoints, roads, tunnels, bridges, separate communities, schools, hospitals in an apartheid Israel amongst peoples that will be there for eternity, we'd have had peace years ago.
 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

The indigenous Palestinians are the majority population between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. It's only, at the moment, the Israeli gerrymandering of borders that makes them a voting minority. 

 

Of course Israel will do whatever it takes to suppress the indigenous Palestinian majority, but the arc of justice is long. All Palestinians need do is stay put. All Israelis can possibly do is ethnically cleanse Palestinians again (version 3.0)  if they want again to manufacture a phony Jewish majority within their state.

The world is watching this time via social and international media. Not sure if Israel or the EU or American Jewry is up for a compulsory "population transfer" (aka ethnic cleansing/genocide).

 

Most Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, and hence no voting rights in Israeli elections. Referring to this reality as "gerrymandering of borders" is bizarre and misleading. If the implied claim was that Palestinians under Israeli occupation have a right for Israeli citizenship and voting rights, that's simply not true.

 

And yet again, no issues with prescribing more suffering for the Palestinians, so long as it serves the anti-Israeli agenda. Sure, the Israelis may ethnically cleanse them, but it'll be worth it because...?

[johnpetersen]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There is no bigger picture, other than in your fantasies. In the real world, each and every time that the Palestinians chose the path of rejectionism and violence, their situations worsened. A one-state might be your fantasy, it's not what the Palestinians aspire or aspired for. Other than in your post, there is not such strong pro-democracy tradition and sentiment among Palestinians. Toss in all them vehement terms, still doesn't change reality.

Whatever Palestinians aspire to for, less and less of them want a 2 state solution.

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-attitudes-about-peace-with-israel

 

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/fikraforum/view/palestinian-majority-rejects-two-state-solution-but-backs-tactical-compromi