Fahrenheit 9/11

[Phil Conners]

Anyone know if/when it will come up in cinemas here?

[ProThaiExpat]

My guess is never. It doesn't seem to me to be the type of film that gets shown in Thailand.

There was a poorly acted film with look alikes extolling Bush's performance titled DC/911 or the reverse on Hallmark Channel recently.

I sure would like to see F..911 if it ever becomes rentable, purchaseable on CD or shown in Thailand.

[Axel]

I would be surprised if it would not be available on CD, shortly.

Will look out for it around Sukhumvit and Silom area in BKK.

[stumonster]

if you have a high speed connection( i know in thailand that may be an oxymoron )

you can look at the trailer from here

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

or if you are really keen have a search via the peer to peer filesharing networks, kazaalite and overnet etc, you might find it there

[Dutchy]

Anyone know if/when it will come up in cinemas here?

My wife just bought that movie he made before F911 about that high school shooting, excellent work. I don't think it will take long to find F.911 in Bangkok..

Dutchy

[kasi]

Anyone know if/when it will come up in cinemas here?

My wife just bought that movie he made before F911 about that high school shooting, excellent work. I don't think it will take long to find F.911 in Bangkok..

Dutchy

I would watch anything by Micheal Moore with considerable reservation.

"Bowling for Columbine" was an intentionaly very deceptive piece of work.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

F911, given the 25 minute standing ovation it recieved in Cannes and Micheal Moore's anti-american agenda, should be viewed just as criticaly.

[Phil Conners]

Some people take any critique of US's current policies as being anti-american. Not so, it is just the current US political situation that is extremely unpopular in most of the world.

As many have already pointed out, Dubya, aka Bush Jr., was not elected president but installed by a judge. First thing he did was alienate the world by pulling out of Kyoto. Shame on him and his ultra conservative henchmen

[ProThaiExpat]

kasi: I don't agree with your characterization of Michael Moore as anti-American, when he is very all American, he just hates Bush and all he stands for, as do so many other Americans.

There has been a lot of press about his total commitment to defeating Bush in the election and the purpose of the film was to do just that. I am not surprised that the film gets standing ovations from those who agree with his point of view.

When Michael Moore or the democratic party starts buying tickets for the picture and distributing them free to registered voters, they will just be approaching the tactics of the Catholic Church and their champion, George W. Bush and the religious right when they gave away so many tickets to the Mel Gibson's horror flic that glorified the crucifixion of Jesus.

[Axel]

F911, given the 25 minute standing ovation it recieved in Cannes and Micheal Moore's anti-american agenda, should be viewed just as criticaly.

Don't understand this statement. The guy got a 25 min standing ovation in the world's number one event for movies and you suggest to view it critically?

Obviously, that guy hit something that moved the world to agree to what he said.

For sure it will move Thailand as well, if and when it is shown here.

[kasi]

Axel I presume you know where Cannes is, and I'm sure you know how pro-american the french are.

Micheal Moore has shown where he stands with "Bowling for Columbine". All I'm saying is F911 should be viewed with a critical eye. I really doubt that is how is was viewed in Cannes. It just supported what they already wanted to believe.

By the way a 25 minute standing ovation is unprecedented and out of proportion. It is an indication of the fanatacism at work over there.

[tutsiwarrior]

the Cannes jury president was Quentin Tarantino who useta be a geek working in a video store in Redondo Beach, CA...can't smell no garlic on him.

Now...Emmanuelle Beart (jury member) who danced naked while bathing in Manon de Source is a tantalizing reminder regarding how delectible our anti-American French antagonists can be.

To summerise (sigh) Cannes is an international cinema festival...not a French one...

[digibum]

Some people take any critique of US's current policies as being anti-american. Not so, it is just the current US political situation that is extremely unpopular in most of the world.

I would tend to disagree with part of that. While a very small percentage of people view *any* critique of US policy as anti-American most do not. What they view as being anti-American are anti-American statements which Moore flings about wildly whenever given the chance. Immediately following 9/11 Moore was doing a one man standup show in London where, among other things, he called the people on the planes pussies because real men would have overtaken the hijackers. He said that America had become a nation of fat pussies too afraid to defend themselves. Not quite satisfied with insulting the entire nation and the memories of those who lost their lives that day Moore then decided to play the race card by claiming that if the plane had been filled with black men they would have overtaken the hijackers because blacks have it tough in the US and don't enjoy the pampered lives that makes the rest of the US pussies. Remember, this wasn't a standup comedy show. This was a one man show intended to make people think.

One would imagine that the above report came from some wildly right-wing source using questionable, out of context, quotes, right? Wrong. It was reported in the British press who admitted that despite UK public opinion being against US policy, audiences literally were left with their jaws open at the sheer level of contempt shown by Moore towards not only his fellow countrymen but those who had recently died.

Moore is a media whore and will say and do anything that gets him attention. Someone I have known, online, for several years went to one of his book signings in the US and despite being a fan of Moore's (he was actually there to get his book signed by the man) he had to break from Moore's account of the evening in which Moore claimed that he was threatened and intimidated by police for his views:

Michael Moore vs. the Police

I used to be a fan of Moore's work. I thought Roger & Me was a great film and I would have even been entertained by Bowling for Columbine if it had been honestly labeled as fiction or satire rather than as a documentary. Moore's own film crews have described how several scenes were staged giving people the impression that something had happened which actually had not. Also, critics from both the left and the right have pointed out time and time again the intentional manipulations and outright falsehoods. When lefty pubs like LA Weekly start ripping Moore's films apart citing fabricated and dishonest information it's not exactly like the it's a right-wing conspiracy against the guy.

As many have already pointed out, Dubya, aka Bush Jr., was not elected president but installed by a judge. First thing he did was alienate the world by pulling out of Kyoto. Shame on him and his ultra conservative henchmen

Ahhh, so I guess we can count on some unbiased commentary from you, correct?

Technically, he did not "alienate" the world by pulling out of Kyoto. You can thank Mr. Clinton for that. Long before Bush took office Congress had unanimously passed a resolution (put forth by Senators Robert C. Byrd (D-WV) and Chuck Hagel (R-NE)) which would have made the US acceptance of Kyoto impossible. In fact, that was the whole purpose of the resolution. Congress saw Clinton making public gestures like he was going to sign off on Kyoto without bringing it to Congress so they made sure that had he attempted to do so they would kill the implementation of Kyoto by starving it of funding. You understand "unanimous," correct? That means 100% of both Republicans and Democrats.

The following is a link that gives some of the background. I found it via Google so I don't vouch for the source itself but it seems to be pretty on the mark with the facts (the opinion part is open to anyone's own views) and if you search on Google you can find numerous sources that confirm that factual information in this analysis.

Congress and Kyoto: If at First You Don’t Succeed

[OldAsiaHand]

To summerise (sigh) Cannes is an international cinema festival...not a French one...

Oh my. (sigh)

And you're probably convinced O.J. was innocent, too.

[anamore]

The Cannes festival is very much of a film fashion happening in my opinion not very intellectual. It's just the mood of the moment. Moore has also got admirers in the usa. His work is something halfway between a film /fiction and documentary/reality. He mixes both to bring his message over. No problem as long as beforehand people get informed about what is reality and what is mise en scene (acted). You can watch it, you don't have to agree with it.

Bush's political decisions have caused more trouble and expenses than he ever thought. Not only for the usa but also for europe. As far as I know americans didn't/don't have the freedom to criticise his politics as they were used to do with former presidents. the media still wants the people to believe what politicians think it's better, but that is not the way freedom of opinion and speach works.

Some weeks ago in thailand I meet 2 american women travelling around just like I was doing. We were 4 days together and we had a good time.

They where afraid of going thru anti american experiences in thailand. they thought of europe as being antiamerican at this moment but I told them they could came to europe without being afraid. I would stand up for them if someone would do ugly because of their american passport . We enjoyed meeting and talking about their and my country. The americans I met in my life where just nice people and concerned about worldpeace and wellbeing as anyone else. Anti americanisme is just stupid. people are people we meet and learn from each other thru listening and sharing experiences and opinions. This is the way it should be.

[Axel]

Axel I presume you know where Cannes is, and I'm sure you know how pro-american the french are. ....

Yes, Kasi, I know where Cannes is but would say it is not really the typical French village. IMHO, Moore's success came solely because he says what so many think.

Of course, he is attacked by all kind of opponents, especially back home. The phiolosopher is never admired back home.

To show F 9/11 in Thailand, however, would proof this country's neutrality and freedom of expression. Or do you think, Thaksin would force any distribnutor in Thailand to break the contract and not to distribute?

[Boon Mee]

Michael Moore is about as American as Jane Fonda and Julies & Ethel Rosenberg...

[Axel]

Michael Moore is about as American as Jane Fonda and Julies & Ethel Rosenberg...

Oh well, Jane Fonda was in her time quite an idol of American dream for many Thai girls, especially with her work-out tapes around 82. Silom was full with copies.

The Rosenbergs? I little bit before my time, and cannot find an entrance for them in Thailand.

Michael Moore is quite the type of an American hero. Stands up and fights for what he thinks is right, even if the rulers are against him. Makes a few bucks as well with it.

Actually, Thaksin should invite him to Thailand for a few sessions. Maybe say, "I do not agree, but here is demogracy and free speech."

Joking only, let's talk about the long legs in Japan

[Boon Mee]

The Rosenbergs were a little before my time as well. Just drawing an analogy between them selling out as Michael Moore is doing with his anti-American BS. And yes, it is anti-US as opposed to anti-Bush. Moore "documents" nothing but anti-capitalistic themes & poorly at that.

[Axel]

The Rosenbergs were a little before my time as well.  Just drawing an analogy between them selling out as Michael Moore is doing with his anti-American BS.  And yes, it is anti-US as opposed to anti-Bush.  Moore "documents" nothing but anti-capitalistic themes & poorly at that.

Boon Mee, pssst, not here and not on a lovely Sunday morning in LOS.

Now M. Moore has a few colleagues who wrote books as well. Quite anti--Bush but pro-American. Let's invite them to visit Thailand as well.

Khun Thaksin so, might be exhausted this morning, he played football yesterday against members of the diplomatic corps. Might have to wait till next week to suggest anything to him.

[ProThaiExpat]

I visited the website a previous poster offered as a critique of Columbine and Michael Moore. Loaded with vitriol to say the least. However, I am not in a position to challenge his "facts" offered against Moore and his works, I moved on to his critique of the yet to be madefilem Farenheidt/911.

That critique places the author right where he is, a Moore hater and antagonist. Just read what he says about a movie that he hasn't even seen. His bias is patent without even a shred of objectivity. Many such on the web on any subject.

[stumonster]

the mainstream media do not inspire confidence of non-biased reporting anywhere in the world. I do have a problem with any commercial outlet proclaiming to present unbiased news content, because by their very definition they are in the business to make money for their shareholders.

for the people who wish to view some of the protagnists in the battle to discredit micheal moore visit

http://www.moveamericaforward.org/newsmax/

though note:- moveforwardamerica.org has changed their whois data to remove all references to Russo Marsh & Rogers. Note the date stamp on the changed whois data.

john safrans take on documentry film makers in the ABC pilot Media Tycoon deservers some consideration

http://www.chez.com/folder1/files/english/safran.htm

those australians who wish to see ray martin loose his cool also might find the clips amusing.

[kasi]

I visited the website a previous poster offered as a critique of Columbine and Michael Moore. Loaded with vitriol to say the least. However, I am not in a position to challenge his "facts" offered against Moore and his works, I moved on to his critique of the yet to be madefilem Farenheidt/911.

That critique places the author right where he is, a Moore hater and antagonist. Just read what he says about a movie that he hasn't even seen. His bias is patent without even a shred of objectivity. Many such on the web on any subject.

Any defense of Micheal Moore is very shaky at best. Bowling for Columbine has been thoroughly discredited. You would have to be pretty gullible to expect anything objective and unbiased from F911.

[Johpa]

I would watch anything by Micheal Moore with considerable reservation.

"Bowling for Columbine" was an intentionaly very deceptive piece of work.

One might not agree with Moore's views or his politics, but to call "Bowling for Columbine" deceptive is laughable. Moore is not known for being subtle and I would doubt he is capable of being subtle. He is very much in your face all the way. You either agree with him or not.

[Johpa]

Michael Moore is about as American as Jane Fonda and Julies & Ethel Rosenberg...

Are you implying that me fellow Ahmericans who disagree with a particular administration's policies are spies?

[kasi]

I would watch anything by Micheal Moore with considerable reservation.

"Bowling for Columbine" was an intentionaly very deceptive piece of work.

One might not agree with Moore's views or his politics, but to call "Bowling for Columbine" deceptive is laughable. Moore is not known for being subtle and I would doubt he is capable of being subtle. He is very much in your face all the way. You either agree with him or not.

Interesting! Deceit has no correlation with subtlety. Deceit is a lie, a fabrication.

Bowling for Columbine" was an intentionaly very deceptive piece of work

I made no remark on Moore's subtlety. It is his honesty which is without question nonexistent. You either believe lies or you dont!

[digibum]

Bush's political decisions have caused more trouble and expenses than he ever thought. Not only for the usa but also for europe. As far as I know americans didn't/don't have the freedom to criticise his politics as they were used to do with former presidents. the media still wants the people to believe what politicians think it's better, but that is not the way freedom of opinion and speach works.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions going around. Michael Moore is not being prevented from saying what he wants to say in the US. Bill Maher is not being prevented from saying what he wants to say. The Dixie Chicks are not being prevented from what they want to say. I challenge one single person who talks about their freedoms being taken away to cite how thier freedom has been taken away.

No, what has happened, is that the American public have become much less willing to tolerate extremism. Bill Maher's comments about the 9/11 hijackers being braver than Clinton were, even by Maher's own admission, not well timed. People were still feeling the tragedy of the event and Maher started rubbing salt in the wound. The government did not pull Maher off the air. Disney/ABC did after complaints from the public, a complete boycott by sponsors, oh, and the part that Mr. Maher keeps forgetting to mention, after two years of watching his ratings drop steadily.

Moore has not been censored in the US. He has been free to make his film. He has been free to go around and make wild and paranoid claims. Moore has attempted to claim that he is being censored but can never deliver on any proof. What seems even more odd is he makes his claims about censorship at places like . . . the Academy Awards, prime-time news outlets, talk shows, etc. If that's censorship, sign me up! He claimed his new film F9/11 was being censored because the government had warned Disney's Miramax not to release it. Ooops. Moore had to admit a few days later that Disney had sent him a letter well over a year ago that they had some issues with the film and that they would not distribute it. Moore forgot to mention that that sort of thing happens all the time in Hollywood. It helps the studio offset risks. But when it happens to Moore, it's censorship.

The Dixie Chicks were not censored in the US. The government did not pull them off radio stations. The government did not pull their sponsorship deals. No, the American people did. They said, "We don't like the way you sneaked off to Europe to trash talk the president so we're not going to support you back here in the US." But just as every other self-proclaimed martyr does, the Dixie Chicks kepts talking about censorship despite the fact the government in no way did anything to prevent them saying what they said or punish them for their actions.

It's actually somewhat humorous. By definition, censorship is when you are prevented from expressing your views. Normally, that prevention is via government action. Not giving someone a television show is not censorship. It's a business decision. People not agreeing with your views is not censorship. In fact, it's just the opposite. You got to say what you wanted to say and I was given the opportunity to call you a moron for saying it. The humor is that people with extreme points of view are being subject to some of their own medicine and now it's suddenly censorship. For instance, I've seen at least 10 or 12 news stories about a guest college speaker being booed off stage by students and parents when the speaker decided to give their views on the war in Iraq, Bush, or 9/11. These speakers always claim that it's scary being critical of this administration and try to draw parallels to Nazi Germany or George Orwell's 1984. Now, of course, nearly every single person who has said this has protested other people because they didn't like what they said. It's your right to protest when they do it, and censorship when others do it to them.

And for anyone who doesn't believe that Michael Moore intentionally distorts facts I would suggest the following link at Spinsanity. Please note that this site isn't anti any particular point of view. They are a group of journalists who act as a sort of Snopes for political claims. They examine assertions made by both Republicans and Democrats and brutally disect them.

they thought of europe as being antiamerican at this moment but I told them they could came to europe without being afraid.

Afraid? I also think of Europe being Anti-American but my reasons for not going have nothing to do with fear but because I simply don't need the hassle. I think it's quite interesting that the US government has not boycotted France yet the American people have. Tourism from the US has dropped almost 20%. Imports of French products have dropped like a rock due to lower demand. France has been falling all over itself to lure Americans back to France as their economy and tourism industry are bleeding red ink.

I've lived in Europe, traveled in Europe and I would be less likely to travel there right now than any other time. No, not because of fear but at least when a TBG tells you she loves you, you know it's a mutually beneficial lie. When Frenchman tells you he loves Americans you know he is doing everything in his power to keep from vomiting.

[digibum]

One might not agree with Moore's views or his politics, but to call "Bowling for Columbine" deceptive is laughable.  Moore is not known for being subtle and I would doubt he is capable of being subtle.  He is very much in your face all the way.  You either agree with him or not.

Then you must find Forbes to be like a big comic book. Moore's Bowling for Columbine film has been ripped to shreds by both the right and the left for glaring errors and in some cases, intentional, out and out, manipulation of facts. When confronted about obvious falsehoods in his film Moore responded that his film was intended to be a comedy and you can't find falsehoods in comedy. While he may be right, he marketed it as a documentary which you certainly can fault for falsehoods.

If Moore wasn't being deceptive, why would he feel the need to alter the DVD version of Bowling for Columbine in response to critics who pointed out that he not only added a caption to a Bush campaign ad that never appeared in the original but he got the facts wrong in the caption and was potentially at risk of a lawsuit (not from Bush but from the person Bush was supposedly attacking)?

[kasi]

Well the Micheal Moore fans should have something to think about now.

I've lived in Europe, traveled in Europe and I would be less likely to travel there right now than any other time. No, not because of fear but at least when a TBG tells you she loves you, you know it's a mutually beneficial lie. When Frenchman tells you he loves Americans you know he is doing everything in his power to keep from vomiting. 

I dont think I will ever return to europe again either. And I will keep coming back to thailand over and over and over.

The french can have all the 25 minute standing ovations for Micheal Moore all they want. But the laugh is on them when I choose Chilean wine over French wine. Pretty soon the french economy will be hurting so we wont be so many french tourists in thailand anymore. They will be replaced by americans.

[Boon Mee]

Michael Moore is about as American as Jane Fonda and Julies & Ethel Rosenberg...

Are you implying that me fellow Ahmericans who disagree with a particular administration's policies are spies?

No, MM is not a spy so much as he's cut from the same cloth as the Rosenbergs. They sold out for money and ideology.

Actually, the Rosenbergs are not the best comparison here. Michael Moore is simply a fat, greed-driven whore who belittles his country for monetary gain.

This just out: Filmmaker Michael Moore said Friday he wasn't sure he did the right thing by saving footage of U.S. American soldiers' cruelty toward Iraqis for his controversial documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11,'' instead of releasing the evidence earlier when it might have helped halt such abuse.

"I had it months before the story broke on '60 Minutes,' and I really struggled with what to do with it,'' Moore said in a telephone interview with The Chronicle. "I wanted to come out with it sooner, but I thought I'd be accused of just putting this out for publicity for my movie. That prevented me from making maybe the right decision.''

The footage, eerily similar to film of the atrocities at Abu Ghraib prison, shows GIs laughing as they snap photos of each other putting hoods over Iraqi detainees.

What a jerk...

[stumonster]