Thai Immigration prevent British Child from leaving Thailand

[ArranP]

4 minutes ago, blackcab said:

My wife renewed her Thai passport this week. She attended the passport office Wednesday lunchtime.

 

Her new passport arrived by EMS post 2 days later, Friday lunch time.

either emergency travel document issued same day or 3 to 5 days for the passport, we will find out what route(s) are open to us tomorrow am.

[teatime101]

13 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

Thai won't like someone renouncing their Thai citizenship ! Rather superior lot

That's got nothing to do with it, as I'm sure you understand. Thailand is certainly strict about rules and regulations, but so is everywhere else, AFAIA.

[Sujo]

I had a similar issue about 10 years ago. I became an australian citizen then 2 months later decided to leave.

 

When leaving they told me i had to use my australian passport. I told them i will leave on my british passport.

 

Luckily when they cited the legislation it only stated 'should' not 'must' so they let me go through.

 

[time2093]

19 minutes ago, ArranP said:

Thanks,

 

I just called the number and they confirm that I must goto Laksi first to renew her thai passport.

 

As my daughter entered thaialnd using her Thai passport, she must leave Thailand on her Thai passport. 

 

Draconian  <deleted>  Thailand well niffed.

Don't know why your making a big stink over this as its common knowledge when you enter a country by air you must leave with the same passport.

[chuang]

45 minutes ago, ArranP said:

No, it is clear she is the individual in the passport, has a right to enter the destination country and a valid passport to travel on.

No one has the 'right' to enter another country it's a privilege not a right....

[otissp]

5 minutes ago, chuang said:

No one has the 'right' to enter another country it's a privilege not a right....

did you read the original post?

[dabhand]

5 minutes ago, time2093 said:

Don't know why your making a big stink over this as its common knowledge when you enter a country by air you must leave with the same passport.

As was seen in an earlier post, Immigration appear to be prepared to offer some discretion in such cases. A wild guess, but perhaps the OP's initial interaction with the IO was such that meant any discretion was not on the table. 

[otissp]

14 minutes ago, time2093 said:

Don't know why your making a big stink over this as its common knowledge when you enter a country by air you must leave with the same passport.

 

I don't think OP is making a "big stink" over it. I think their posts have been level headed and logical. This is a forum dedicated to sorting out thai visa issues, so I dont understand why someone who is posting about sorting out a thai visa issue needs to be unnecessarily criticized for doing so.

 

There are 190 or so countries/jurisdictions/territories on the earth, each with their own rules. It's news to me that it is a universal rule that if you go into country A by air with a given passport you must use that same passport to exit.

 

At least one counter example, once I entered Thailand with a son of mine who is Thai but we had never gotten him a Thai passport. He entered Thailand with his US passport, and we obtained a Thai passport for him in Thailand. When we left Thailand, we used his Thai passport.

I think it is general knowledge that there are border controls and that when you cross an international border, you are ordinarily asked to establish evidence that you have the right to do this, and demonstrating this ordinarily involves one or more passports or other official travel/citizenship/identity documents, but I don't see that there is a general rule that the same passport must be used for entry and exit, particularly in a complex case like OP mentions.

 

Whether or not OP and his daughter had the right to exit is not necessarily an open and shut legal issue that can be solved with common sense that everyone knows about. I think input from someone who has actual knowledge of the details of Thai law could be helpful here.

 

[2long]

I think that you should have been well aware that she was trying to leave the country on a passport that she didn't enter on. My daughters are UK Thai and we change passports on the plane. They arrive in Thailand as Thais. If yours did that, then there's no record of her entering on her UK passport, so the IO was correct in refusing her to depart on it.

Although I have travelled many times with a daughter and no wife, I have never been asked for the 'permission from other parent' form. However, the last couple of trips I have had the form ready.

If you have sole custody, then I guess this form is not required.

Are you on talking terms with the girl's mum? Because you're probably going to need her to go to apply for the new Thai passport tomorrow.

We once all tried to go to Bali when my younger daughter (4.5 years old) had only 5.5 months remaining on her passport. They wouldn't let her on the plane. so I took the older kid and my wife went to get a new passport. But they wouldn't let her apply for it without me being there, and I was in Bali.

Be prepared for problems at MoF Laksi if you don't take the mum.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, ArranP said:

...As my daughter entered thaialnd using her Thai passport, she must leave Thailand on her Thai passport...

 

As your your daughter's British passport had no Thai arrival stamp in it, the Thai immigration officer had no authority to put a Thai departure stamp in it.

[Cake Monster]

2 hours ago, ArranP said:

Once she knew I was not accepting what she was telling me, and I was not relenting in giving her a piece of my mind, she ignored me....

I am afraid that is the Thai way of having an Adult, and Intelligent discussion over any problem.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, ArranP said:

I was so cross about this, I found it a impinchment on her right to travel unhindered.

As crossy already posted a person shall always enter and leave a country on a passport of the same nationality. This was your fault, and could easily been fixed by thinking before doing. So, if you are cross or not is not the point, but you should take out your anger on yourself.

[tiocfaidh]

it happened to my mate too. His son was stopped from leaving the country on his UK passport as his Thai passport has expired whilst in Thailand.  He entered on his Thai passport.

They tried to renew it they were told they had to do it in the United Kingdom as that is where the passport was issued.

[Maestro]

4 minutes ago, tiocfaidh said:

...They tried to renew it they were told they had to do it in the United Kingdom as that is where the passport was issued.

 

That was wrong information. A new Thai passport can be applied for in Thailand regardless where the previous passport was issued.

[tiocfaidh]

5 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

That was wrong information. A new Thai passport can be applied for in Thailand regardless where the previous passport was issued.

they ended up getting a flight back to Nong Khai, going to the local amphur and registering Henry in the area and then passing a brown envelope to get the passport and quickly.

This would have been 6 years ago. What a palaver!

[Encore]

The same applies even if you hold 2 valid national passports, as I did some years ago due to the amount of international travel I undertook.  On one business trip to Thailand, I inadvertently presented my second passport at the departure airline check-in desk and, because there was no arrival stamp, Thai Immigration were called.  I apologised and presented my passport with the arrival stamp but that resulted in an interrogation as to why I had 2 valid passports which the IO said was not permitted and wanted to confiscate my second passport.  It took a call to my Embassy and the intervention of a Senior IO before it was decided that I was not a criminal and was allowed to depart after an hour of discussion.    

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, ArranP said:

The point I am making is that it is her choice, she may not want to renew her passport and if that were the case what would Thailand do then, keep her imprisoned here against her will .....

Sorry but you are just wrong about that. As your daughter entered on her Thai passport, she needs to leave on her Thai passport as well.

 

This has been discussed many times and I don't think immigration officers have any leeway to make an exception in this matter.

 

A Thai can indeed opt not to renew their Thai passport. But if they entered Thailand on their Thai passport, they need to renew it before leaving in case it expires.

 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, tiocfaidh said:

They tried to renew it they were told they had to do it in the United Kingdom as that is where the passport was issued.

I do not believe they said that. Probably documents missing that was in UK or another reason they just didn´t tell you.

[theoldgit]

4 hours ago, chuang said:

No one has the 'right' to enter another country it's a privilege not a right....

 

The child is a British Citizen and as such is not subject to UK Immigration controls, so she does indeed have the right to enter the UK.

[john terry1001]

5 hours ago, ArranP said:

Immigration prevented her from leaving on her British passport.

What passport did she use to enter Thailand?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, tiocfaidh said:

they ended up getting a flight back to Nong Khai, going to the local amphur and registering Henry in the area and then passing a brown envelope to get the passport and quickly.

That was due the child being born in the UK and then getting their Thai birth certificate at the embassy in London. The embassy will issue a passport in that case.

They had to register their child in house book to get a Thai ID number the is required to get a Thai passport here.

[Raphus]

If she has a Thai passport that also.means she is a citizen of Thailand. The immigration are in their rights to stop you leaving. Especially if the UK passport is brand new and recently issued. I think the Thai authorities have done the right thing in protecting the minor. As they do not know the full situation as to why she is leaving with you. Especially if the mother was not present. You have to look at it from the logical point of view and the view of the minor.

[drbeach]

5 hours ago, Eibot said:

When taking a child with his/her mother outside of any country in the world. One always needs written permission from the mother unless she is deceased or you have written sole costudy over the child. 

 

In regards to the passport I find a strange story...If this is truly the case if her passport I would seek legal advice.

Not true. I asked an immigration officer at a land border about this and they said: "no need".

[John Bird]

What am I missing here?  If what youre saying  is true, then you can only ever travel using one passport in your whole life? Can't be right. 

[Maestro]

Removed an off topic post.

[Maestro]

8 hours ago, John Bird said:

What am I missing here?  If what youre saying  is true, then you can only ever travel using one passport in your whole life? Can't be right. 

 

 This is what you are missing:

 

1.  A Thai national arrived with her Thai passport in Thailand and was given an arrival stamp in her Thai passport. Consequently, there now was an immigration record that this Thai national was in Thailand.

 

2. At some later date, a UK national meeting the same description was leaving Thailand with her UK passport, but immigration could find no arrival stamp in her UK passport nor any record of the arrival of this UK national in the immigration database.

[BritTim]

15 hours ago, ArranP said:

This is what I was expecting to happen also, they knew she is Thai, had no criminal record, was a British citizen and would be accepted at the desitination country.

 

Typically draconian.

The immigration official has discretion to waive certain rules. I do not know what would have happened if you had apologised profusely for failing to realise the Thai passport had expired and asked the official to help. I am pretty sure what you actually did was instruct the official that leaving on the same passport you arrive on is not necessary, and demand she stamp your daughter out. This is not a good way to get any official on your side.

[UKresonant]

16 hours ago, ArranP said:

My argument is that she may not want to renew her Thai passport, what then is Thailand going to keep her here her entire life prevent her from leaving, I was fuming.....

The son (also now 12) & I, luckily have had no issues passing through but always show both passports at check in at both ends of the trip and always Thai in /out pp, UK pp in Out /out.

It is possible, however unlikely, the son may not wish to renew one of the passports, but both will in all circumstances, be maintained, until after he is 18. Difficult to predict the future situation, and would never wish to deprive them of a future opportunity (maybe ????).

The Daughter maintains her Thai Docs. but I don't think she has ever actually used them to enter Thailand.  The only downside for the Daughter is that She can't change her name as she now married, because you have to go back to the local office in Thailand, to change the surname on the ID card, to allow the Thai passport name change, to then change the UK passport (and there is absolutely no way she will go back to where her Thai mum's family reside ). Her UK Mother-in-Law thought this peculiar ????. It would seem more complicated for a Boy as time goes on.

 

Best of luck in resolving this problem. Keep cool  ????

Edited July 12, 2020 by UKresonant

[tiocfaidh]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That was due the child being born in the UK and then getting their Thai birth certificate at the embassy in London. The embassy will issue a passport in that case.

They had to register their child in house book to get a Thai ID number the is required to get a Thai passport here.

I think you are correct Ubonjoe. They went back to Nong Khai, registered Henry in the blue book and then they could get the passport.

His father did not want to register him in the house book as then Henry could be drafted into the Thai army at a later date.

He had to relent 

[leeedwards]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:06 PM, ArranP said:

I do not know the number.

Are you incapable of using google? Don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes mate. https://www.google.co.th/search?q=emergency+telephone+number+british+embassy+bangkok&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-th&client=safari

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by leeedwards