Defense against mean dogs

[Fairynuff]

25 minutes ago, black tabby said:

I have repelled 124  mean dogs on the total of 80 occasions(between mid Jan. 17. 2017- Jul.2. 2020). 

Are you on the Autistic spectrum?

 

I record every single such encounter. Date, place, numbers of the attacking dogs  every time I use my weapon to drive them away.

 

Definitely on the spectrum!  Your weapon would drive me away too.

[moontang]

7 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

Disgusting behaviour that one day will come back to haunt you. Couldn’t come soon enough.

and what do you call the behavior of dog kwners, who let their dogs roam and harass pedestrians and cyclists?  last year, a friend was bitten, and the shots made him ill.  he actually left for treatment in Singapore because of the complications.  it ended up costing him a bundle, and he wasn't back to normal for months..barely broke the skin, too.

[superal]

On 7/17/2020 at 1:54 AM, Damrongsak said:

I learned that from a gal who raised attack dogs and conducted safety training classes for utility and postal workers who encountered dogs in their work.  She would also use a tennis ball mounted on the end of a short PVC pipe handle (50 cm?).

 

 

Umm , the mind boggles 

[ChakaKhan]

On 7/18/2020 at 3:17 AM, Saltire said:

Cool idea with the vinegar bottle in a holster.

 

This coolness could be much improved by having TWO bottles and holsters criss crossed accross your chest.

 

How about a poncho to complete the calm look.

 

Worked for Clint Eastwood ????

 

 

You feeling lucky pooch-punk?   

 

I biked daily around Cm and would carry a baton on my bike in case...

 

Chased many times and I would lock up my brakes and stare them down--even give chase

 

The dogs face was like <deleted>....kinda like when u chuck a snowball at a car and they brake...oh sh*t!!!!!!

[bodga]

a  bloody  mean stick, bamboo is  good, show  no fear.

[bodga]

On 7/18/2020 at 2:00 PM, Pilotman said:

It's not the dog that is the problem

Its the idiots that feed  them? and the idiots who just let them breed uncontrolled. Thais say they  love  dogs  but thats a total  joke.

[ifmu]

while living in usa i ran across many mean vicious dogs .. i started carrying a can of hornet spray

 

it is a strong steady solid stream of spray, with hornets it lets u stay far away and spray ... ... yes i know not nice .. 

[WaveHunter]

20 hours ago, black tabby said:

"you're not going to have time to reach for a bottle of spray or anything else unless you take immediate and aggressive action.  You need to react immediately."

 

I have repelled 124  mean dogs on the total of 80 occasions(between mid Jan. 17. 2017- Jul.2. 2020). 

I record every single such encounter. Date, place, numbers of the attacking dogs  every time I use my weapon to drive them away.

Do you still think I have no enough reaction time to counter them?

I got one simply rule to defend myself.  Point & shoot. If they  approach with hostile barks or bare teeth.

Trigger is pulled as soon as they come  within 10-12 meters. Outside direct hit range. But the  falling sour mists sting their eyes and noses.  Resultingly, they are pushed back immediately.  The road is pacified.

I have also  encountered with a pack of them on many occasions.  And I could    always  walk  away unharmed thanks to my Mean Dog Buster Spray.

It is amazing that you often get into the high risk area without any proper means to defend yourself.

I, myself is a cyclist in Thailand.  But swinging around bike pump for self-defense is certainly not my cup of tea. And I do not go to any mountains or bushland by bicycle.  I only ride in town. Therefore no difficulties to see  the approaching hostile dogs.  They are always  spotted well  before they get too close to me.

I have also saved  a few other people from the dog hazard they were facing.

Both my weapon & tactics are well  battle proven. I am quite confident.

124 mean dogs on the total of 80 occasions???  OMG, are you carrying beefsteaks around with you in your pockets or something LOL! 

 

C'mon, be serious!  There are a lot of really seasoned and serious cyclists here in Chiang Mai that I ride with every day, and not one of them I can recall carries any sort of defensive items like sprays or stun guns or other silly items...except the newbies who have heard scary and overly dramatic stories (like yours, I'm afraid). 

 

I ride every day here in Chiang Mai around the University and then up Doi Suthep.  The University in particular is notorious for nasty doggies who bark, snarl and chase you, and some of the Strava segments are even named after them like "Chasing Dogs", but the number of genuine attacks where I felt in danger could be counted on my fingers and I've been here since 2017. 

 

Most attacks are all bark and no bite, and the idea of trudging around with a spray bottle attached to your handlebars sounds a little silly, no offense intended.  Most of the encounters I've had, even with packs of dogs can easily be defused just with an aggressive gesture and nothing more.  I can only recall maybe twice where I felt in imminent danger, and the strategy I mentioned about dismounting and pulling out the bike pump worked just fine; no harm to me or the dog! 

 

Dogs are alpha/Beta type creatures and they react as Betas when you show them that you are indeed the Alpha; that is all there is to it.  You may indeed be the fastest "gun" in Chiang Mai with your spray bottle but it's all quite unnecessary, though I did enjoy reading your gun-slinger account.  Sounds like you're a big fan of Westerns and War movies????

 

 

[black tabby]

On 7/20/2020 at 12:41 PM, ifmu said:

while living in usa i ran across many mean vicious dogs .. i started carrying a can of hornet spray

 

it is a strong steady solid stream of spray, with hornets it lets u stay far away and spray ... ... yes i know not nice .. 

Hello, I just read your comments.

Is it true that there are at least 1000 dog attack incidences daily in US?

Is it OK for anyone to carry around teargas or vinegar spray openly?

It is just a question from my curiosity though.

[moontang]

34 minutes ago, black tabby said:

Hello, I just read your comments.

Is it true that there are at least 1000 dog attack incidences daily in US?

Is it OK for anyone to carry around teargas or vinegar spray openly?

It is just a question from my curiosity though.

Basically, if you don't live where the riots are..NYC, Chicago, Portland, etc., you can carry a loaded pistol.

 

Average homeowners insurance settlement for a dog bite is over 30,000 USD..in the US.

[Eindhoven]

On 7/20/2020 at 4:10 AM, bodga said:

a  bloody  mean stick, bamboo is  good, show  no fear.

 

If you are carrying a stick, you are already showing fear. But I didn't need to tell you that, as you already know.

 

[Heppinger]

On 7/18/2020 at 5:00 PM, Pilotman said:

no they are not, not normally.  Any animal, including humans, that has no shelter, very little food and has to fight to live is going to be dangerous. It's not the dog that is the problem, it's how they are forced to exist and live their life. 

Sooooo..... avoid the homeless?

[Heppinger]

On 7/19/2020 at 9:24 PM, Fairynuff said:

Are you on the Autistic spectrum?

 

I record every single such encounter. Date, place, numbers of the attacking dogs  every time I use my weapon to drive them away.

 

Definitely on the spectrum!  Your weapon would drive me away too.

He is building a prosecution case?

[chiangmaixpat]

This is my first time to post here. I really liked BT's idea. I,too,have met so many hostile dog in the streets of Thailand.  Have never provoked them though. Thanx for the useful suggestion.

[Rimmer]

A general flame and replies have been removed, also now personal attack.

 

You need to tone this baiting and bickering down or I will step in and there will be posting suspensions

[Eindhoven]

Interesting that the OP mentioned psychopaths, as I did not want to be the one to mention it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosadism

 

Quote

Zoosadism is pleasure derived from cruelty to animals. It is part of the Macdonald triad, a set of three behaviours that are considered a precursor to psychopathic behaviour.

 

The OP seems to take extraordinary pleasure in counting and recounting the amount of times that she has attacked animals more than 32 feet from herself. 

 

[Cake Monster]

On 7/19/2020 at 4:50 PM, black tabby said:

Good on you.

Great to see another Mean Dog Buster in this thread.

How long have you been using your device against nasty dogs?

I would like to know about:

1-Its range

2-Mag. capacity 

3-Firing cycle(per second)

 

Mine is:

1-Since Jan.2017

2-Range: Direct hit(7 meters)  Effective mist spread(10 meters)

3-Mag. capacity: Over 130rds(150cc tank)

4-Firing cycle:(4/second)

The current defensive Toy is a copy of a Magnum .45

It holds nearly 200  Ml of Ammo, and its concentrated effective range is 6,5 M, with a spray pattern of nearly 2 M Diameter at 9 M.

So if the shot is not really good on the incoming attack, there will be a good chance of a spray burst getting some effect before the Beast gets close.

I also can get off abut 4 shots per Second

I have found that the Dogs do not like even the small amount of spray because their Noses are so sensitive.

Only a few days ago, a pack of Soi Dogs attacked a little 7 year old Boy, just 60 M from my House.

The little lad is going to be badly scared for the rest of his life, so I have little sympathy for any distress that I may cause an attacking Dog.

[rumak]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:10 AM, bodga said:

a  bloody  mean stick, bamboo is  good, show  no fear.

simple,  and the way i handle it.    usually on a bike if i don't panic but just keep my constant speed

the dog will not chase .   If a few dogs one has to be more careful,  as the "leader" can start an attack.

If they get too close I will stop and put the bike between me and them and show the stick.

Then can usually walk away while they bark .....  Stay calm ,  sometimes i do shout  ( in thai    PAI !,

Klap bahn ! )     that always confuses them    

[Eindhoven]

Just now, Cake Monster said:

The current defensive Toy is a copy of a Magnum .45

It holds nearly 200  Ml of Ammo, and its concentrated effective range is 6,5 M, with a spray pattern of nearly 2 M Diameter at 9 M.

So if the shot is not really good on the incoming attack, there will be a good chance of a spray burst getting some effect before the Beast gets close.

I also can get off abut 4 shots per Second

I have found that the Dogs do not like even the small amount of spray because their Noses are so sensitive.

Only a few days ago, a pack of Soi Dogs attacked a little 7 year old Boy, just 60 M from my House.

The little lad is going to be badly scared for the rest of his life, so I have little sympathy for any distress that I may cause an attacking Dog.

 

Absolutely fine if the dog is actually attacking. 32 feet+ away is not attacking. It is simply cruelty to animals.

 

Your fear not not give you the right to attack nature's animals. 

 

One or twice repelling a seemingly dangerous animal can be considered normal. But eighty times seems abnormal to me. 

That tells me that the OP is the one attacking the animals and not the other way around. She confirmed it with glee. 32 feet+ away is not an attacking animal.

 

 

[Eindhoven]

Just now, rumak said:

simple,  and the way i handle it.    usually on a bike if i don't panic but just keep my constant speed

the dog will not chase .   If a few dogs one has to be more careful,  as the "leader" can start an attack.

If they get too close I will stop and put the bike between me and them and show the stick.

Then can usually walk away while they bark .....  Stay calm ,  sometimes i do shout  ( in thai    PAI !,

Klap bahn ! )     that always confuses them    

 

Try doing the opposite. Get off and call them over. Show that you are friend so they don't need to be nervous. No need put the bike between you and them. All of your current actions show fear and make you look hostile. Having a snack even better for you. Otherwise one or two of the dogs, possibly the youngest will be brave enough to come over and check you out.  They'll sniff and then wander off. Don't try to touch them, as they are still nervous and don't know what you will do.

If you have a snack, you can leave it and step back enough for one of them to approach it.

 

Then you will have friends. They will remember your smell and your kindness. People who are cruel to animals are missing something. 

It is only their fears that they see. So they are blind to all other possibilities. 

Just change the movie from Cape Fear to one of the buddy genre.

 

I've walked into communities with no foreigners wherein the dogs start howling, barking etc. I just get down and call them over. Alpha comes within a few metres, sees no danger and wanders off. Most of the others do the same.

 

Shaking a stick only makes them think that now they really have to protect the community.

You don't need a stick, they are already afraid of you. No dog wants to have to deal with an angry human. We are bigger, stronger and will kill if threatened. They would much prefer to have you as a friend.

 

 

 

 

[WaveHunter]

57 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

The current defensive Toy is a copy of a Magnum .45

It holds nearly 200  Ml of Ammo, and its concentrated effective range is 6,5 M, with a spray pattern of nearly 2 M Diameter at 9 M.

So if the shot is not really good on the incoming attack, there will be a good chance of a spray burst getting some effect before the Beast gets close.

I also can get off abut 4 shots per Second

I have found that the Dogs do not like even the small amount of spray because their Noses are so sensitive.

Only a few days ago, a pack of Soi Dogs attacked a little 7 year old Boy, just 60 M from my House.

The little lad is going to be badly scared for the rest of his life, so I have little sympathy for any distress that I may cause an attacking Dog.

LOL, I bet that goers over real well with a local policeman seeing you with a replica pistol in your hand out in public!  Good way to get a stay in the Gray Bar hotel! 

 

I have to seriously doubt all of these posts about carrying defensive weapons to thwart attacks from dogs.  I ride everyday in places that are notorious for packs of wild dogs in Chiang Mai, like up on Doi Suthep or around the University.  Most of them are scared of humans and keep their distance, some just put on a show for fun and mean no harm.  With packs of dogs, it's usually just the Alpha putting on a display to assert his dominance over the pack. 

 

It's actually not too often that I encounter dogs who are a genuine danger.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen because I've had my share of those encounters and so have most cyclists who ride regularly , but we're talking about maybe a few times a year, if that.  Certainly not enough times that I'm gonna be packing a weapon like I'm Rambo or some Western Cowboy gunslinger!  I mean...c'mon, be real!  If you are that scared than maybe you should just stay at home and use Grab to get around.

[rumak]

34 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

Then you will have friends. They will remember your smell and your kindness. People who are cruel to animals are missing something. 

It is only their fears that they see. So they are blind to all other possibilities. 

Just change the movie from Cape Fear to one of the buddy genre.

i understand where you are coming from.   But you are pushing your agenda a bit much  IMO

I did not say i show fear .  I show confidence, not aggression.   I have seen plenty of Dog Whisperer

episodes....  and prefer to "stand my ground"  when dealing with a particularly aggressive dog.  My post said that usually i just don't react but continue on my merry way.  But when i do feel threatened

( when one gets way too close ,  i put something between it and me.  My bike.  And I use a visual and sometimes verbal deterrent) .      

You can choose your psychology..... I will go with Cesar's .   I am not cruel in any way.  I am just defending my space if necessary.     Hopefully you will understand where I am coming from .

If not,  do it your way .  Mine has worked well,  and dogs generally leave me alone or like me...

cause they can smell that I am a good guy   ????    As can most members here .   get my whiff ?

[rumak]

30 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

It's actually not too often that I encounter dogs who are a genuine danger.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen because I've had my share of those encounters and so have most cyclists who ride regularly , but we're talking about maybe a few times a year, if that. 

It seems your experiences and actions are pretty similar to mine.   A cool head usually prevails, but 

sometimes the come here little doggy approach just ain't gonna work .      

[WaveHunter]

21 minutes ago, rumak said:

It seems your experiences and actions are pretty similar to mine.   A cool head usually prevails, but 

sometimes the come here little doggy approach just ain't gonna work .      

Agree.  I'm certainly not minimizing the danger of a truly nasty dog but I guess we both seem to handle it the same way.  No need for "weapons", vinegar, pepper spray, etc.  The only cyclist I see with those kind of things are Noobs. 

 

In almost every worrisome encounter I've ever had, simply dismounting my bike abruptly keeping it between me and the dog, and raising my arm like I'm about to throw something (even though I have nothing in my hand) seems to halt most dogs from advancing, at least for a few moments.  It gives me time to grab my tire pump, and then I have something to defend myself if it comes to that...but not once have I ever had to actually strike a dog.  They may continue to bark, but they never come closer as long as you are waving your hand around in the air.  Eventually they turn tail and go about their business.  I often carry doggie treats and if they are not acting too aggressive, tossing them a treat can diffuse the situation as well.

 

Dogs instinctually are really distressed by the gesture of aggressively raising your hand because they don't have the ability to pick up and grasp objects, yet they have seen or been subjected to humans throwing things at them.  To them, the ability to grasp and throw objects must seem like magic and it's something they're truly frightened of!  IMO, your intelligence is your best "weapon" to thwart off a dog attack.  No need to be Cowboy buckaroo.

 

 

[Eindhoven]

6 hours ago, rumak said:

i understand where you are coming from.   But you are pushing your agenda a bit much  IMO

I did not say i show fear .  I show confidence, not aggression.   I have seen plenty of Dog Whisperer

episodes....  and prefer to "stand my ground"  when dealing with a particularly aggressive dog.  My post said that usually i just don't react but continue on my merry way.  But when i do feel threatened

( when one gets way too close ,  i put something between it and me.  My bike.  And I use a visual and sometimes verbal deterrent) .      

You can choose your psychology..... I will go with Cesar's .   I am not cruel in any way.  I am just defending my space if necessary.     Hopefully you will understand where I am coming from .

If not,  do it your way .  Mine has worked well,  and dogs generally leave me alone or like me...

cause they can smell that I am a good guy   ????    As can most members here .   get my whiff ?

 

Agenda? What are you talking about? I just told you what I do as you have told me what you do.

I wasn't suggesting that you were cruel, I just stated that people who are cruel to animals are missing something. I was actually referring to the OP and how she behaves.

Lastly; Whatever you insist, this shows as fear;

Quote

If they get too close I will stop and put the bike between me and them and show the stick.

 

You can tell yourself that putting your bike between them and showing a stick is asserting confidence, but I read it as fear.

Notwithstanding, we can agree to disagree. You can handle the dogs in any way that you want. You haven't been bitten, so it works for you.

I have been dealing with them ever since I first arrived in Thailand. I don't need sticks and obstacles. 

Interestingly sometimes it's other dogs that come to my aid. Once, running on the beach, a dog made a beeline for me. Before it could reach me, another dog(known to me) blindsided the other dog, knocked upside down and stood over it.

 

The Alpha usually stays out of it. He'll be at the back. Usually it's one of the girls barking and geeing everyone up. But if you are friendly, likely one of the young ones will be brave enough to check you out. Very unlikely the Alpha. He will only get involved if there is real danger.

 

Like me, they only fight if they really have to. do so Then winning is the only option. So the Alpha is only likely to attack if necessary. Once he sees there is no danger, he will wander off. Without his support, the others will do the same. Sometimes just one persistent barking female will remain. But with no support.

 

[rumak]

26 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

You can tell yourself that putting your bike between them and showing a stick is asserting confidence, but I read it as fear.

Notwithstanding, we can agree to disagree. You can handle the dogs in any way that you want.

Well,  i guess Mr Milan is showing fear as well.   He will sometimes choose to use a tennis racket or something of that nature to create space between himself and a dog that wants to bite.  If one is confident, they do not have to "assert" it. Just like showing a stick is different than "shaking" a stick.   

Thanks for your anecdotes,  but I will continue to take defensive actions when and how i feel necessary and

advise others to do likewise.    But as you say...... go ahead and do it your way .  

[rumak]

50 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

Like me, they only fight if they really have to. do so Then winning is the only option. So the Alpha is only likely to attack if necessary

As others have related, and as I have seen personally ( a dog just come out of nowhere and bite someone I was with) ,  there is no sure way to know what an unknown dog....or worse yet group of dogs,

will do.   They do not always have to be provoked .   

It only takes one time of being trusting to end up on the wrong end.  Many are right to be scared, and all should be prepared. Even more so when on a bike.

I do agree that generally being friendly instead of aggressive with dogs (and people) is the preferred way to act.   But experience tells us me that once in a while that action

is not reciprocated.

 

[Eindhoven]

8 hours ago, rumak said:

As others have related, and as I have seen personally ( a dog just come out of nowhere and bite someone I was with) ,  there is no sure way to know what an unknown dog....or worse yet group of dogs,

will do.   They do not always have to be provoked .   

It only takes one time of being trusting to end up on the wrong end.  Many are right to be scared, and all should be prepared. Even more so when on a bike.

I do agree that generally being friendly instead of aggressive with dogs (and people) is the preferred way to act.   But experience tells us me that once in a while that action

is not reciprocated.

 

 

I don't disagree. 

As I recounted, the one time when an unknown dog made a beeline for me, another dog came out of nowhere to do the protecting.

We don't give them enough credit. They are intelligent animals.

[rumak]

14 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

I don't disagree. 

As I recounted, the one time when an unknown dog made a beeline for me, another dog came out of nowhere to do the protecting.

We don't give them enough credit. They are intelligent animals.

Just got home and had eight notifications .  Seven were positive and then I thought:  ok, what is eindhoven gonna say now   lol     but lo and behold it was short and sweet .   

I also think dogs are pretty smart    ????      and great companions.

[Eindhoven]

17 minutes ago, rumak said:

Just got home and had eight notifications .  Seven were positive and then I thought:  ok, what is eindhoven gonna say now   lol     but lo and behold it was short and sweet .   

I also think dogs are pretty smart    ????      and great companions.

???? ????