Anyone ride a Bianchi road bike (or a Kaze road bike) here?

[WaveHunter]

10 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

OK.... I'm stumped.  Which of the three forces (gravity, friction and wind) change depending upon where the "extra" 2kg is located?

All of them ????, but for a recreational rider, I don't think the difference are going to be that significant.  For recreational riders I think the rider's excess weight and position on the bike play a bigger role than the weight or aerodynamics of the bike itself.  Bike weight is only a factor for ultra serious racers, and even then, it's not as significant a difference as most people think...IMO.  As far as the bike goes, at least for a climber (or sprinters), I think the most important consideration is stiffness of the frame, not weight of the bike.  That's why I'm interested in carbon bikes.

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by WaveHunter

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

OK.... I'm stumped.  Which of the three forces (gravity, friction and wind) change depending upon where the "extra" 2kg is located?

inertia

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

OK.... I'm stumped.  Which of the three forces (gravity, friction and wind) change depending upon where the "extra" 2kg is located?

inertia

 

 

 

[Hanuman2547]

It seems like a good bike and Bianchi is a good brand.  Don't know what your budget is but in the US it retails for $1500.  I suspect in Thailand the price is a bit more.  Compact 50/34 up front and a rear cassette of 11-28 which is pretty good for all around riding.  I do get that Doi Suthep is a little bit different so a rear cassette change is probably a good idea.  Aluminum frame and a carbon fork is ok.  I've done a lot of rides on that set up.  I've rode on steel, aluminum, and carbon and now I'm spoiled and I really like the carbon frames.  I'm currently riding a 2019 Specialized Tarmac Disc and love it.  A year ago I rode a one day 250km, 3000m+ of climbing event in the US on it and felt fine.  Even up the 18km long 900m climb that begins at the 160km mark.  The bike is stock with a 52/36 crank up front and a 11-30 cassette in the rear.  

 

The only bike I have taken up Doi Suthep on is a 2002 steel framed Lemond Zurich triple which was pretty common back then.  52/42/30 up front and a 12-25 cassette.  Great bike for doing Doi Suthep.  

[LawrenceN]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

The Kaze definitely has a more aggressive look to it; that's for sure.  It looks fast just standing still ????  I rode one at a dealer in CNX and it felt wonderful.  I just worry about the durability since it is a carbon frame and I can find no rider feedback reports.

I wonder if the frames for the Bianchi and Kaze are made in the same factory in Taiwan.

[Hanuman2547]

58 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it's not only a question of the overall weight. 2kg reduced weight on the bike makes a bigger difference for riding than 2kg reduced body weight.

A 2kg lighter bike is a big difference.  However, if you can drop 5kg off of the rider (me!) it really helps your performance especially when climbing.  

[Stevemercer]

And, of course, reducing rolling weight makes the biggest difference of all. If you have money to spare, go for the best/lightest wheels (strength and puncture resistance being acceptable).

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Hanuman2547 said:

It seems like a good bike and Bianchi is a good brand.  Don't know what your budget is but in the US it retails for $1500.  I suspect in Thailand the price is a bit more.  Compact 50/34 up front and a rear cassette of 11-28 which is pretty good for all around riding.  I do get that Doi Suthep is a little bit different so a rear cassette change is probably a good idea.  Aluminum frame and a carbon fork is ok.  I've done a lot of rides on that set up.  I've rode on steel, aluminum, and carbon and now I'm spoiled and I really like the carbon frames.  I'm currently riding a 2019 Specialized Tarmac Disc and love it.  A year ago I rode a one day 250km, 3000m+ of climbing event in the US on it and felt fine.  Even up the 18km long 900m climb that begins at the 160km mark.  The bike is stock with a 52/36 crank up front and a 11-30 cassette in the rear.  

 

The only bike I have taken up Doi Suthep on is a 2002 steel framed Lemond Zurich triple which was pretty common back then.  52/42/30 up front and a 12-25 cassette.  Great bike for doing Doi Suthep.  

Mmm!  I would love to own a Tarmac ????  Maybe when i win the lottery LOL!  I saw a terrific review of the new S-Works Tarmac SL7 on a great YouTube channel called NorCal Cycling...what a COOL bike!!! :

 

 

Right now I ride an old Cannondale MTB with rigid suspension and honestly I love it; very old school!  The CAAD aluminum frame is really nice IMO, but I rode a friend's carbon road bike and it was like riding a Ferrari on two wheels.  The difference in stiffness was SO noticeable, and it just felt so agile; actually too agile but I'm sure I'd get used to that. 

 

So, I'm really leaning towards a carbon bike now and the Kaze Kansai is a surprisingly affordable carbon bike so I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it, rather than the Bianchi aluminum Impulso.

Edited August 1, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, LawrenceN said:

I wonder if the frames for the Bianchi and Kaze are made in the same factory in Taiwan.

The Bianchi Impuso is aluminum; the Kaze Kansai is carbon, so definitely not the same factory.  I read somewhere that the Kansai is actually made in Japan, even though the main distributor is right here in Chiang Mai and they say it's made here in the Kingdom.  The problem I have right now is it's very difficult to get any unbiased third-party information about the bike; no reviews and no rider feedback showing up online.  Still though, I rode the bike at a dealer, and it sure feels nice.  I just am a little nervous about buying a carbon bike without knowing how durable it is.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Hanuman2547 said:

A 2kg lighter bike is a big difference.  However, if you can drop 5kg off of the rider (me!) it really helps your performance especially when climbing.  

The trade-off for a lighter bike is generally frame stiffness.  The tradeoff for a lighter body is improved power to weight ratio without a change in bike stiffness.  A stiff frame is far more important than bike weight I think.  Until you have no more excess body fat to lose, the latter approach seems preferable. Probably the best way to lose excess body fat is climbing on a MTB bike.  Many pro racers actually train with heavy MTB bikes for body conditioning.  If you ride road bikes, try climbing Doi Suthep on an MTB bike.  It's a workout you won't forget if you've never done that before. ????

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by WaveHunter

[LawrenceN]

4 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

The Bianchi Impuso is aluminum; the Kaze Kansai is carbon, so definitely not the same factory.  I read somewhere that the Kansai is actually made in Japan, even though the main distributor is right here in Chiang Mai and they say it's made here in the Kingdom.  The problem I have right now is it's very difficult to get any unbiased third-party information about the bike; no reviews and no rider feedback showing up online.  Still though, I rode the bike at a dealer, and it sure feels nice.  I just am a little nervous about buying a carbon bike without knowing how durable it is.

Durability: I had a Cannondale Synapse for eight years. Not a hiccup from the frame. I think I dropped it, sliding on gravel once in those eight years, the kind of "crash" that tears your bar tape.  I sold it to a certain Irishman two years ago. He crashed it into a parked truck near the 700-year Stadium a few months later. If I recall correctly, the frame didn't survive that. So there's that; carbon frames are great if you avoid bad crashes. Aluminum frames can break, too. 

 

Anyone else want to weigh in on carbon frames' durability? 

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, LawrenceN said:

Durability: I had a Cannondale Synapse for eight years. Not a hiccup from the frame. I think I dropped it, sliding on gravel once in those eight years, the kind of "crash" that tears your bar tape.  I sold it to a certain Irishman two years ago. He crashed it into a parked truck near the 700-year Stadium a few months later. If I recall correctly, the frame didn't survive that. So there's that; carbon frames are great if you avoid bad crashes. Aluminum frames can break, too. 

 

Anyone else want to weigh in on carbon frames' durability? 

It really depends more than anything on who manufactured the bike I think, particularly with carbon.  Most of the premium bikes like Bianchi, S-Works, Cannondale, Giant, etc are really made for them by factories in China or Taiwan. 

 

Some factories in China and Taiwan do a superb job, and some even sell bikes with the exact same specs (minus the marquis logo) direct to consumers at a fraction of the price.  One example of such a factory is the Lightcarbon factory in China.  They make the frames for Nove racing bikes.  Nove's price to customers for a frame-only is around $3000 USD and for a completely outfitted bike, the price tag is around $10,000 USD. 

 

LightCarbon sells the exact same frame direct to consumers for around $400 USD! ...and for $50 more you get your own custom designed paint scheme.  People I know that have bought them say they are excellent quality.

 

Even though I don't need such a high end bike, I'm kind of tempted.  Even after I add all the components, I'd be maybe 30-40% higher than the cost of a Kaze Kansai, but comparable to a $10,000 racing bike ????

 

Here's Racer Phil Gammon's Nove "cookieman bike" as an example:

  

Of course there are also some factories turning out carbon bikes sold on AliExpress that look fantastic but are complete trash.  So, it's really all about the factory.

Edited August 1, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

35 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

It really depends more than anything on who manufactured the bike I think, particularly with carbon.  Most of the premium bike makers like Bianchi, S-Works, Cannondale, Giant, etc do not actually manufacture their bikes.  Instead, almost all high-end bikes are made for these companies by independent factories in China or Taiwan. 

 

Some factories in China and Taiwan do a superb job, and some even sell bikes with the exact same specs (minus the marquis logo) direct to consumers at a fraction of the price. 

 

One example of such a factory is the Lightcarbon factory in China.  They make the frames for Nove racing bikes.  Nove's price to customers for a frame-only is around $3000 USD and for a completely outfitted bike, the price tag is around $10,000 USD. 

 

LightCarbon sells the exact same frame direct to consumers for around $400 USD! ...and for $50 more you get your own custom designed paint scheme.  People I know that have bought them say they are excellent quality.

 

Even though I don't need such a high end bike, I'm kind of tempted.  Even after I add all the components, I'd be maybe 30-40% higher than the cost of a Kaze Kansai, but comparable to a $10,000 racing bike ????

 

Here's Racer Phil Gammon's Nove "Cookieman bike" as an example:

  

Of course there are also some factories turning out carbon bikes sold on AliExpress that look fantastic but are complete trash.  So, it's really all about the factory.

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by WaveHunter

[QPRFC]

I ride a Bianchi Camaleonte Due 2 on the Chiang Mai roads and it has been faultless and is as fast at the traffic light Grand Prix as most motorcycles (depending on your leg strength of course). 

I used to have it serviced at Mong Cycles until they moved out of town. 

 

As I'm stranded in Vietnam at the moment and now likely to be here for a while given our recent outbreak, I'll consider selling it if you are interested PM me.

 

It is in safe storage in Hang Dong area for viewing. 

 

https://www.choosemybicycle.com/en/bicycles/bianchi-camaleonte-2-0-2013

Edited August 2, 2020 by QPRFC

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, QPRFC said:

I ride a Bianchi Camaleonte Due 2 on the Chiang Mai roads and it has been faultless and is as fast at the traffic light Grand Prix as most motorcycles (depending on your leg strength of course). 

I used to have it serviced at Mong Cycles until they moved out of town. 

 

As I'm stranded in Vietnam at the moment and now likely to be here for a while given our recent outbreak, I'll consider selling it if you are interested PM me.

 

It is in safe storage in Hang Dong area for viewing. 

 

https://www.choosemybicycle.com/en/bicycles/bianchi-camaleonte-2-0-2013

Thanks for the offer on selling your Bianchi but I decided I’m going for Kaze.
 

I was a big fan of Stu over at Mong and was sorry when he moved out of CM...great guy!

 

Sorry to hear of your situation in Vietnam; that really sucks what happened in Danang!  Vietnam seemed to be the model for how to deal with COVID. Hope things get back to normal quickly. 
 

Edited August 2, 2020 by WaveHunter

[QPRFC]

23 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Thanks for the offer on selling your Bianchi but I decided I’m going for Kaze.
 

I was a big fan of Stu over at Mong and was sorry when he moved out of CM...great guy!

 

Sorry to hear of your situation in Vietnam; that really sucks what happened in Danang!  Vietnam seemed to be the model for how to deal with COVID. Hope things get back to normal quickly. 
 

No worries.

I considered a Kaze before I bought the Bianchi. I visited the store/workshop and wasn't impressed with them, maybe just the person working there on the day and lack of stock (no completed bikes for sale) but it was enough to put me off. I hope you have a more pleasant visit than I did.

[WaveHunter]

To be honest, I’m still on the fence about Kaze. Lack of reviews or rider feedback gives me pause, but I’m really impressed with feel if a carbon road bike at a price I can afford. 

[Hanuman2547]

On 7/31/2020 at 10:31 PM, WaveHunter said:

Mmm!  I would love to own a Tarmac ????  Maybe when i win the lottery LOL!  I saw a terrific review of the new S-Works Tarmac SL7 on a great YouTube channel called NorCal Cycling...what a COOL bike!!! :

 

 

Right now I ride an old Cannondale MTB with rigid suspension and honestly I love it; very old school!  The CAAD aluminum frame is really nice IMO, but I rode a friend's carbon road bike and it was like riding a Ferrari on two wheels.  The difference in stiffness was SO noticeable, and it just felt so agile; actually too agile but I'm sure I'd get used to that. 

 

So, I'm really leaning towards a carbon bike now and the Kaze Kansai is a surprisingly affordable carbon bike so I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it, rather than the Bianchi aluminum Impulso.

S-Works is a little too rich for me!  Mine is just a regular Specialized.  Carbon frames are really nice.  The carbon rim wheel set is really nice too.  I've had no issues with mine at all.  Since I bought it back in March 2019 I have put 5,800 kilometres on it.  

[bobfish]

Enjoy the Kaze: right choice! 

Like with the Nove/Lightcarbon situation, it is difficult to establish a price/quality baseline. And the Kaze looks nice.

 

For what it is worth, my $$$$$ Cannondale Supersix Evo frame cracked the chainstay last week.  Fortunately I have a spare $ Chinese Velobuild frame that I'll transfer the components to while I consider my options.

[WaveHunter]

On 8/11/2020 at 6:34 AM, bobfish said:

Enjoy the Kaze: right choice! 

Like with the Nove/Lightcarbon situation, it is difficult to establish a price/quality baseline. And the Kaze looks nice.

 

For what it is worth, my $$$$$ Cannondale Supersix Evo frame cracked the chainstay last week.  Fortunately I have a spare $ Chinese Velobuild frame that I'll transfer the components to while I consider my options.

I appreciate your feedback.  While I'm impressed with the Kaze bike, like @QPRFC mentioned, I was also a little put off by the "Distributor" here in Chiang Mai.  They were very pleasant in answering questions but sort of allusive about where and by who the bike is manufactured. 

 

What's more, they keep telling me the bike is on "back-order" and this has been going on for months.  I hate to say this, but I wonder if the bike is even actually being manufactured or if it is just a lot of marketing hype.  I mean, I did see one bike "for real" at Anek Bikes in Chiang Mai but that was it; even the "so-called" Chiang Mai distributor had no actual bikes to show me! ????

 

And most of all, there is absolutely no objective user feedback to be found on the internet or YouTube; only marketing oriented stuff.  There just seems no way to know for sure if the bike is good, or just looks good in pictures. 

 

At such an incredibly low price for a good carbon bike, you know the saying,  "If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is..."

 

On the other hand, I can find quite a bit of objective, third-party feedback on the LightCarbon factory in China.  I looked into a number of factories (including VeloBuild), and LightCarbon seems to be #1, and though they keep their relationship with bike brands a secret, I am pretty sure their factory builds frames for Specialized, Cannondale, and Pinarello.

 

LightCarbon has been making frames since 2012 and has been exhibiting since 2016 in all the global bike exhibitions like EuroBike, Interbike, and CosmoBike. 

 

All of their carbon frames and rims are made of high modulus carbon fiber (Toray T1000), and they are tested under new ISO4210 standard, and they have a 2 year quality warranty...so, I really think I could be comfortable ordering the frame and other carbon components from them and building out the bike myself.

 

Here is the economy build-out that DurianRider made of the LightCarbon frame-set for around 35,000THB that included some premium components.

 

I worked out the cost to build that "Nove" style bike, using a LightCarbon frame & bars and Shimano 105 GroupSet, and it comes out to under 50,000 THB which is less than the Kaze Kansai, so it's really enticing, plus they have an excellent reputation for custom designing the paint job to whatever you want (i.e.: like Phil Gaimon's "Cookieman Bike")

 

	THB
LightCarbon Super Light Carbon Road Frame set	14,004.00
Superteam Carbon Wheels	9,496.27
LightCarbon Handlebar Integrated w/ Stem	3,112.00
Victoria clincher Tires	3,112.00
FiZik Saddle	2,334.00
Shimano XTR MTB pedals	2,334.00
105 Groupset 11-34 165mm crank 7000 series	12,099.46
Custom Paint	3,112.00
TOTAL PRICE	49,603.72

 

That is a very attractive price considering that the Nove brand road bike using this frame goes for around $9,000USD (including all components), when my cost to build would be around $1,600 USD. 

 

Clearly, I don't need such a high quality carbon bike like the Cookieman Bike, but at the price...why not??  Hell, maybe I should just go into business making custom bikes for people here in Chinag Mai LOL ????

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by WaveHunter

[LawrenceN]

19 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I appreciate your feedback.  While I'm impressed with the Kaze bike, like @QPRFC mentioned, I was also a little put off by the "Distributor" here in Chiang Mai.  They were very pleasant in answering questions but sort of allusive about where and by who the bike is manufactured.  What's more, they keep telling me the bike is on "back-order" and this has been going on for months.  I hate to say this, but I wonder if the bike is even actually being manufactured or if it is just a lot of marketing hype.  I mean, I did see one bike "for real" at Anek Bikes in Chiang Mai but that was it; even the "so-called" Chiang Mai distributor had no actual bikes to show me! ????

 

And most of all, there is absolutely no objective user feedback to be found on the internet or YouTube; only marketing oriented stuff.  There just seems no way to know for sure if the bike is good, or just looks good.

 

On the other hand, I can find quite a bit of objective, third-party feedback on the LightCarbon factory in China.  I looked into a number of factories (including VeloBuild), and LightCarbon seems to be #1, and though they keep their relationship with bike brands a secret, I am pretty sure their factory builds frames for Specialized, Cannondale, and Pinarello.

 

LightCarbon has been making frames since 2012 and has been exhibiting since 2016 in all the global bike exhibitions like EuroBike, Interbike, and CosmoBike.  All of their carbon frames and rims are made of high modulus carbon fiber (Toray T1000), and they are tested under new ISO4210 standard, and they have a 2 year quality warranty...so, I really think I could be comfortable ordering the frame and other carbon components from them and building out the bike myself.

 

Here is the economy build-out that DurianRider made of the LightCarbon frame-set for around 35,000THB that included some premium components.

 

I worked out the cost to build that "Nove" style bike, using a LightCarbon frame & bars and Shimano 105 GroupSet, and it comes out to around 45,000 THB which is less than the Kaze Kansai, so it's really enticing, plus they have an excellent reputation for custom designing the paint job to whatever you whatever you want (i.e.: like Phil Gaimon's "Cookieman Bike")

 

	THB
LightCarbon Super Light Carbon Road Frameset LCR007-V	14,004.00
Superteam Carbon Wheels	9,496.27
LightCarbon Handlebar Integrated w/ Stem	3,112.00
Victoria clincher Tires	3,112.00
FiZik Saddle	2,334.00
Shimano XTR MTB pedals	2,334.00
105 Groupset 11-34 165mm crank 7000 series	12,099.46
Custom Paint	3,112.00
TOTAL PRICE	49,603.72

 

That is a very attractive price considering that the Nove brand road bike using this frame goes for around $9,000USD (including all components), when my cost to build would be around $1,600 USD. 

 

Clearly, I don't need such a high quality carbon bike like the Cookieman Bike, but at the price...why not??  Hell, maybe I should just go into business making custom bikes for people here in Chinag Mai LOL ????

 

Have you seen the carbon fiber bike at Decathlon? It's almost identical to what you describe - carbon frame with 105 components - but I don't think it's got the carbon wheels or 11-34 cassette. I forget what brand name they use, and have no idea what factory they come from. Worth a look? Up to you. 

[WaveHunter]

11 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

Have you seen the carbon fiber bike at Decathlon? It's almost identical to what you describe - carbon frame with 105 components - but I don't think it's got the carbon wheels or 11-34 cassette. I forget what brand name they use, and have no idea what factory they come from. Worth a look? Up to you. 

Where is Decathlon?  Any idea of bike brand name?  Like I said, knowing who manufactured a carbon frame seems to be the most important thing.  I've heard of a lot of really attractive looking bike frames on Alibaba that turn out to be pretty bad, even dangerous due to poor design, materials, or quality control of manufacturing...especially when it comes to carbon.

 

I had a friend who was riding down Doi Suthep at high speed when his "good deal" Chinese carbon handlebars broke unexpectedly...not the kind of experience I ever want to have LOL!

Edited August 17, 2020 by WaveHunter

[LawrenceN]

5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Where is Decathlon?  Any idea of bike brand name?  Like I said, knowing who manufactured a carbon frame seems to be the most important thing.  I've heard of a lot of really attractive looking bike frames on Alibaba that turn out to be pretty bad, even dangerous due to poor design, materials, or quality control of manufacturing...especially when it comes to carbon.

 

I had a friend who was riding down Doi Suthep when his "good deal" Chinese carbon handlebars broke unexpectedly...not the kind of experience I ever want to have LOL!

Now I'm thinking the brand name is BTwin.

 

Decathlon is in the Tesco-Lotus complex south of the Airport Mall. First set of traffic signals south of Airport Mall, on the left. Not a bad U-turn if you're coming from the south, as long as it's not rush hour. 

 

If you need to change the cassette, I have an 11-speed 11-34 cassette I could sell, almost new, but no chain. 

[bobfish]

Shame about the Kaze.

Seems like Decathlon are running their stock low. They did have some Triban bikes with 105 earlier, but now not much choice. Maybe worth waiting for their new Van Rysel range which get good reviews.

On Chinese built carbon vs 'name' brands: take a look at Leuscher Teknik, Raoul knows his stuff.

 

[Markc]

OP, another brand I haven"t seen mentioned that is advertising a bit recently is Gusto Thailand.  Full carbon bikes from Taiwan.  They show a range of styles and prices on their website.  Many local bikeshops appear to be acting as agents for them.  May be worth a look?