Thai e-vehicle industry set for rapid growth

[webfact]

Thai e-vehicle industry set for rapid growth

By THE NATION

 

 

The Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT) says the EV market in Thailand is the most advanced among Asean countries and will grow quickly during 2025 to 2030.

 

EVAT chairman Yossapong Laoonual said several of the association’s requirements for the EV industry have been adopted by the government. However, EV investment and production have moved slowly due to high operating costs.

 

EV technology will be cheaper from 2025 and become more accessible to normal people, he predicted.

 

He added that the EV industry in Thailand was more advanced than in Malaysia, Indonesia or Vietnam, since Thai producers were already up and running. Also, foreign auto companies were interested in investing in EV production in Thailand since it has long been a production base for normal cars.

 

The EVAT chairman suggested the government should use environmental policies to push EV use in the country, such as by promoting of Euro 5 and 6 emission standards, which are set to be adopted in Thailand over the next few years.

 

EVs will be cheaper than other Euro 6 cars in the next five years, while promoting the Euro 5 and 6 standards would boost EV sales in the future, he said.

 

The association is collaborating with other private agencies to promote EVs in Thailand. Next month, EVAT will join hands with Informa Markets to launch Asean Sustainable Energy Week 2020 from September 23 to 26, highlighted by the “International Electric Vehicle Technology Conference and Exhibition”.

 

Meanwhile, the national EV policy committee has approved plans to make Thailand a production base for EVs within five years. By 2030, 30 per cent of all vehicles produced in Thailand will be EV.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30392371

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2020-08-04

 

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[Inepto Cracy]

My opinion says that the Hybrid market will take take off first, before we see complete conversion to vehicles running only on battery power.

Hybrids can travel further, batteries take long to charge up and their traveling range is very short too.

[canopy]

3 hours ago, Inepto Cracy said:

Hybrids can travel further, batteries take long to charge up and their traveling range is very short too.

500km range is considered to be the basic minimum standard for EV's going forward by some auto makers and there are EV's with much longer ranges. Range is thus a non-issue to most people. And charging an EV at home is easier than filling a car with gas. Just imagine if you had to bring your phone to a phone station to charge it, that would be a burden and total waste of time. But we don't, we charge them at home. That's more convenient as it will be with cars. And EV's need no oil changes, belt changes, nor the other maintenance like gas engines that take time and money to keep them going. Thus, it's great Thailand is not talking about hybrids. But it is disappointing they are also not talking about the problem that EV's in Thailand cost double or more what they cost in other countries.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by canopy

[Yinn]

 

Thailand has been a stronghold for automobile manufacturing for decades. It nicknamed itself "the Detroit of Asia," and the moniker stuck, with good reason. It's currently the 12th most industrious auto manufacturer in the world, and the largest in Southeast Asia. 

 

Japanese makers like Toyota and Mitsubishi have had operations in Thailand since the 1960s. GM, Ford, Mercedes and BMW all followed. 

Link

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/news/world/thailand-auto-industry/index.html

[sezze]

16 minutes ago, canopy said:

500km range is considered to be the basic minimum standard for EV's going forward by some auto makers and there are EV's with much longer ranges. Range is thus a non-issue to most people. And charging an EV at home is easier than filling a car with gas. Just imagine if you had to bring your phone to a phone station to charge it, that would be a burden and total waste of time. But we don't, we charge them at home. That's more convenient as it will be with cars. And EV's need no oil changes, belt changes, nor the other maintenance like gas engines that take time and money to keep them going. Thus, it's great Thailand is not talking about hybrids. But it is disappointing they are also not talking about the problem that EV's in Thailand cost double or more what they cost in other countries.

 

Well , 500km isnt any issue at all for by far most people (even if they say it is ) . I'd say 300km is plenty for by far , but the problem is batteries, charge time and lifetime . Electric engines are very , extremely reliable ( if not cut corners ) . Al other things are like other cars ( i come to that in a minute ...) .  But imagine buying a 2nd hand car 6y old , not old neither brand new , but you got to spend 3/4th of the price of a new car if you need to change batteries . Which probably is the case 2-4y from when you buy it . How much is that car worth ? Or you buy/own a 8-10y old car and the batteries break down , which will happen ( in Thailand , good luck they living 10y ) , spending 3/4 of new value from car to change batteries . That car isn't worth anything at all .

2nd thing is , charging time , on a normal plug it will take at least 8h , and many times a lot longer to charge it full . Faster charge requires higher amps , much higher , and grid needs to be adapted to it .

3th thing is , aircons and heating .... forget about cooling or heating your car if you want to drive . the technology isnt difficult , problem is , it requires electric , which you normally would use from your engine , but now it is just another engine running from same battery or a heating wire . Milage goes down big time .

[Geoffggi]

1 hour ago, canopy said:

500km range is considered to be the basic minimum standard for EV's going forward by some auto makers and there are EV's with much longer ranges. Range is thus a non-issue to most people. And charging an EV at home is easier than filling a car with gas. Just imagine if you had to bring your phone to a phone station to charge it, that would be a burden and total waste of time. But we don't, we charge them at home. That's more convenient as it will be with cars. And EV's need no oil changes, belt changes, nor the other maintenance like gas engines that take time and money to keep them going. Thus, it's great Thailand is not talking about hybrids. But it is disappointing they are also not talking about the problem that EV's in Thailand cost double or more what they cost in other countries.

 

Basically I agree with what you are saying, however there is also a huge amount of infrastructure to be completed  to cope with the increase in power requirements both in laying of suitable electrical cables and the power generating industry to accommodate the increase in power requirements. 

[canopy]

Overall just keep in mind when discussing EV batteries all the attributes we are discussing today will probably be improved next year, and the year after that, and so on just as they have up to this year. It is a technology that is rapidly changing.

  

7 minutes ago, sezze said:

lifetime

First tell tale sign here should be EV battery warranties are way longer than ICE warranties. Batteries have no moving parts and don't need scheduled maintenance. There's just no way an engine with thousands of parts spinning at thousands of RPM's pumping oil, coolant, gas, and accessories whirring off belts is ever going to compete with the reliability of a simple solid battery. In fact a problem EV manufacturers are facing today is batteries last too long. There are even 1 million mile batteries available. For commercial vehicles that may be a boon, but that's uselessly too much for the general consumer because nobody puts that many miles on a car. A solution they are talking about is when an EV reaches end of life is put the batteries on the power grid to squeeze the remaining juice out of them. Another strategy is right sizing battery life to lifetime of vehicle to lower the price of the car.

 

15 minutes ago, sezze said:

2nd thing is , charging time , on a normal plug it will take at least 8h , and many times a lot longer to charge it full . Faster charge requires higher amps , much higher , and grid needs to be adapted to it .

Leaving a car charging overnight will suffice for most uses just like your phone. Trickle charging overnight may get roughly 200kms on your basic 16A supply. But you are right in some usages more will be needed. Upping your home charger could be an option. I hate the idea of ever having to go to an annoying charging station, but that is an alternative for some. For the grid, see below.

 

4 minutes ago, Geoffggi said:

there is also a huge amount of infrastructure to be completed  to cope with the increase in power requirements both in laying of suitable electrical cables and the power generating industry to accommodate the increase in power requirements. 

Absolutely. Note the power usage in thailand is not static and the power company is used to constantly increasing power needs year over year. What we use in 2020 is way more than the infrastructure in 2010 could handle. EV adoption will be gradual over several decades so the power company needs only accelerate their plans somewhat more. Note a single big shopping mall in Bangkok draws more power than some entire provinces in Thailand! The power company has proven capable of fulfilling increased demands from the village level to industrial scale over time so it all seems plausible. And also note solar roofs and home battery packs are an alternative in some cases for those that wish to generate their own energy.

 

[JonnyF]

I see these as a great solution for people commuting in Bangkok. Trouble is, a lot of those people live in condos which makes charging them very difficult. 

 

The range is also limited so touring with them is problematic until the charging facilities are built.

 

So basically they are good for people who commute shortish distances and own their own house with a driveway (as long as they have a second car or don't wish to travel long distances). So a fairly limited market I'd say. I think hybrids will be the sensible choice for most for the next decade. 

[Pravda]

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

 

Thailand has been a stronghold for automobile manufacturing for decades. It nicknamed itself "the Detroit of Asia," and the moniker stuck, with good reason. It's currently the 12th most industrious auto manufacturer in the world, and the largest in Southeast Asia. 

 

Japanese makers like Toyota and Mitsubishi have had operations in Thailand since the 1960s. GM, Ford, Mercedes and BMW all followed. 

Link

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/news/world/thailand-auto-industry/index.html

 

Yes. I am amazed at the number of international companies here. My wife supplies parts for almost every single factory here and sometimes out of boredom I travel to Chonburi with her to visit her customers. I see so many exporting opportunities here that I sometimes think going back to no jobs Canada will be a mistake. 

 

However, Canada used to be a car manufacturing hub decades ago until Americans packed their bags and left. Things can change overnight. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, canopy said:

500km range is considered to be the basic minimum standard for EV's going forward by some auto makers and there are EV's with much longer ranges. Range is thus a non-issue to most people. And charging an EV at home is easier than filling a car with gas. Just imagine if you had to bring your phone to a phone station to charge it, that would be a burden and total waste of time. But we don't, we charge them at home. That's more convenient as it will be with cars. And EV's need no oil changes, belt changes, nor the other maintenance like gas engines that take time and money to keep them going. Thus, it's great Thailand is not talking about hybrids. But it is disappointing they are also not talking about the problem that EV's in Thailand cost double or more what they cost in other countries.

 

The battery is heavy and always places low under the car. Soon we will see these EV cars boil off in flooded sois.

[canopy]

  

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I see these as a great solution for people commuting in Bangkok. Trouble is, a lot of those people live in condos which makes charging them very difficult. 

To me it makes sense there should be charging available wherever you park your car overnight. That means at home (whether house, apartment, or condo) and at hotels. Similar to places like long haul flights once upon a time didn't have phone charging, but they do now.

 

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The range is also limited so touring with them is problematic until the charging facilities are built.

If you need long range then select an EV model with long range. Don't talk about a particular EV with short range and complain it doesn't go far enough.

 

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I think hybrids will be the sensible choice for most for the next decade. 

To each his own. I wouldn't touch a hybrid with a 10 foot pole. Too many disadvantages.

 

[JeffersLos]

I'll wait until it's easy to charge quickly at home, and the range is 3,000 kilometres. 

 

Perhaps 10-15 years. 

[canopy]

  

6 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The battery is heavy and always places low under the car. Soon we will see these EV cars boil off in flooded sois.

EVs are already designed to handle flooding. In fact they keep running unlike engines that get the tailpipe blocked or sucks water in the engine destroying it. Search for clips of tesla's swimming for some fun.

 

[WhatsNext]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

charging an EV at home is easier than filling a car with gas.../.... that EV's in Thailand cost double or more what they cost in other countries.

 

Sadly only when you have a house with a garage / driveway and more importantly some high output charging system which costs, lots of, extra cash. Filling your 80kwh battery with 2kw takes you 5 nights. 

 

And yes please Thai government, take away the crazy taxes on cars, all you are doing is making people buy pickup trucks as that is the only car that isn't taxed to the extreme. Toyota corolla hybrid (called altis here) in Thailand : 1.100.000 Baht and discounts are low or consists of "free mats !". Same exact car in Germany after discounts : 628.000 baht (apl.de, baht 36,66)

 

As an example, the car tax system here made me buy a massive toyota hilux pickup truck with a big diesel engine instead of a small Mercedes. In Germany those two cost the same, here i can buy 3 of those trucks for the price of one small hatchback Gla. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by WhatsNext

[JonnyF]

42 minutes ago, canopy said:

  

To me it makes sense there should be charging available wherever you park your car overnight. That means at home (whether house, apartment, or condo) and at hotels. Similar to places like long haul flights once upon a time didn't have phone charging, but they do now.

 

If you need long range then select an EV model with long range. Don't talk about a particular EV with short range and complain it doesn't go far enough.

 

To each his own. I wouldn't touch a hybrid with a 10 foot pole. Too many disadvantages.

 

Yes it makes sense to have charging where you park the car. But currently that isn't the case, so saying it makes sense to have it doesn't really help a potential buyer.

 

What is long range? Not that many will go from Bangkok to Phuket. Then how do you charge it when you get to Phuket? Hang an extension lead out of your 12th floor hotel window?

 

Hybrids work great. Nice smooth power, great range, no need to constantly charge them, battery prices reducing all the time. 

[Crossy]

A mid-size saloon/small SUV with a range of around 300km would suit our lifestyle at least for the forseeable future. I commute 50km daily, we don't do long road trips and we have a diesel pickup for those bulky items.

 

Madam has already told me she doesn't want a hybrid (her reasoning follows Thai logic but I agree with the conclusion), it's electric or diesel.

 

We have a charging space and space for more solar, all we need now is a sensibly priced vehicle.

 

[canopy]

 

14 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes it makes sense to have charging where you park the car. But currently that isn't the case

Depends on one's particular situation. Personally I would not buy an EV if I could not charge it from my residence, but if you can't then some may find charging stations acceptable and Thailand is building these out as we speak. Bangkok to Phuket you could charge once somewhere along the way (same as you will stop for gas with an ICE), rent something for the trip, or fly. There are 800km and 1000km EVs coming out, but some will want more than that. Others won't.

 

[Silurian]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

EV technology will be cheaper from 2025 and become more accessible to normal people, he predicted.

 

So, another 5 years before affordable EVs? Where are they now? Several other countries have affordable EVs, why the wait in Thailand? I would like to buy an EV to replace my aging Nissan March. So far, I haven't seen any type of small car EV available in Thailand. Most of the EVs available are mid to higher end vehicles. My neighbor has a plug-in BMW.

 

Even the Prius is no longer being sold in Thailand. The Prius has a Plug-In Hybrid model available in other countries.

 

It is hard to believe that Thailand is serious when they don't even have currently available EVs for sale.

 

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

The Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT) says the EV market in Thailand is the most advanced among Asean countries and will grow quickly during 2025 to 2030.

True EV cars might be an option for the upper class  & hi-so market just for show purposes. For the average Thai forget it, with the ordinary petrol engine or Hybrid option a better choice.

What they don't understand yet is the drop in after-sale market, these cars values drop like a brick after  a few years, the second hand market for a hybrid is bad enough let alone a full EV, the battery replacement cost is horrendous.

Look at the USA where hybrids & Ev's have been around for a while, 5-6 year old cars with 100,000 miles are given away for nothing, that's if you can find someone dumb enough to take it. Most are just junked, even the Tesla range hold no secondhand value.

Edited August 4, 2020 by hotchilli

[Peterphuket]

That will be fun with the current electricity grid.

Last week 4 times power faillure with 2 times more than 2 hours.

[canopy]

  

1 hour ago, Silurian said:

So, another 5 years before affordable EVs? Where are they now?

EVs from all makes in Thailand cost double or more what they cost in other countries. I have not seen any exceptions. I don't know on what grounds they decided to cripple the prices or who is lining their pockets with this 100% inflated price. This news story may provide the answer. They are calling for Thai companies to build EVs for what they call "the normal people". So forget buying an EV in Thailand. Your options are pay double for an import because they peg you as rich, or buy into thai junk that won't be available for 5 years because they peg you as poor. Both cases they make you look foolish. A sad and self inflicted state of affairs.

 

[oobar]

4 hours ago, canopy said:

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I think hybrids will be the sensible choice for most for the next decade. 

To each his own. I wouldn't touch a hybrid with a 10 foot pole. Too many disadvantages.

Hybrids will disappear within the next decade.

[dddave]

7 hours ago, canopy said:

But we don't, we charge them at home. That's more convenient as it will be with cars

Indeed, for those who live in homes with a driveway or nearby parking area within charging cable distance; easy-peesy.  For those who live in apartments or condos, not so easy, impractically far from where the vehicle is parked, 

Someday, electrical hook-ups will be standard in parking facilities but that will take 20 years to catch-up to existing structures.

[Silurian]

3 hours ago, canopy said:

EVs from all makes in Thailand cost double or more what they cost in other countries.

 

Case in point, the Nissan Leaf. Costs around 33,000 USD (~ 1M THB) in the USA but in Thailand it costs almost 2M THB.

 

The MG ZS EV version of the MG ZS costs about 400K THB more than the petrol version.

 

There are some electric versions that are not more expensive than the petrol version. The Mini Cooper SE is actually cheaper than the Mini Cooper S (if we are to take the SE version is the electric version of the S). I have been thinking about this car but at 2.3M THB, the price is a little steep. Availability seems limited as well. Granted Mini Coopers are incredibly overpriced in Thailand as it is.

 

The Honda E looks interesting but not available yet. The range is concerning with some tests coming in at the around a 190km city and 130km highway. This is definitely a city car.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Silurian

[Cake Monster]

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

A mid-size saloon/small SUV with a range of around 300km would suit our lifestyle at least for the forseeable future. I commute 50km daily, we don't do long road trips and we have a diesel pickup for those bulky items.

 

Madam has already told me she doesn't want a hybrid (her reasoning follows Thai logic but I agree with the conclusion), it's electric or diesel.

 

We have a charging space and space for more solar, all we need now is a sensibly priced vehicle.

 

And that is the main issue with EV,s - the cost

And with the current Global downturn in trade, there is not going to be rapid expansion of EV any time soon.

 

[canopy]

41 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

And that is the main issue with EV,s - the cost

True, but note there is a tipping point ahead when batteries get cheap enough that EVs become cheaper than ICE vehicles. Due to the battery breakthroughs some believe this event is not far off. When this golden moment is reached, it will be an absolutely huge event like a teeter totter flipping over to the other side.

 

[ChristianBlessing]

17 hours ago, Inepto Cracy said:

My opinion says that the Hybrid market will take take off first, before we see complete conversion to vehicles running only on battery power.

Hybrids can travel further, batteries take long to charge up and their traveling range is very short too.

In the US and Europe hybrid and plug-in hybrid sales peaked in 2013 and have been falling steadily since then, while plug-in electric sales have continued rising in both markets. With the exception of Toyota, it's likely that the supply of hybrid cars will diminish, further spurring the supply of electric.

[ChristianBlessing]

14 hours ago, sezze said:

Well , 500km isnt any issue at all for by far most people (even if they say it is ) . I'd say 300km is plenty for by far , but the problem is batteries, charge time and lifetime . Electric engines are very , extremely reliable ( if not cut corners ) . Al other things are like other cars ( i come to that in a minute ...) .  But imagine buying a 2nd hand car 6y old , not old neither brand new , but you got to spend 3/4th of the price of a new car if you need to change batteries . Which probably is the case 2-4y from when you buy it . How much is that car worth ? Or you buy/own a 8-10y old car and the batteries break down , which will happen ( in Thailand , good luck they living 10y ) , spending 3/4 of new value from car to change batteries . That car isn't worth anything at all .

2nd thing is , charging time , on a normal plug it will take at least 8h , and many times a lot longer to charge it full . Faster charge requires higher amps , much higher , and grid needs to be adapted to it .

3th thing is , aircons and heating .... forget about cooling or heating your car if you want to drive . the technology isnt difficult , problem is , it requires electric , which you normally would use from your engine , but now it is just another engine running from same battery or a heating wire . Milage goes down big time .

Interestingly in the US all EV manufacturers warranty their batteries for 8 years or 100,000 miles/160,000 KM, with some offering 10 year warranties. Buying a used EV at 2-4 years old may in fact be a great investment as the buyer has avoided the initial depreciation of the vehicle.

 

Your point about the grid is well-taken. Many rural parts of Thailand may struggle with both supply and reliability as demand grows.

[ChristianBlessing]

13 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The battery is heavy and always places low under the car. Soon we will see these EV cars boil off in flooded sois.

The weight of an 85 kWh lithium battery pack is about 1200 lbs/544 kg., while the electric motor weighs about 70 lbs/31 kg. The weight of an internal combustion engine (ICE) and drive train can weigh between 500-1000 lbs/250-450 kg, so the differences are, while not negligible, not significant. And those battery packs are sealed and watertight, unlike ICE, which will generally be written off after flooding.

[Greenside]

I for one, hope that they really put some muscle behind this proposal along with the funds to subsidize the initial uptake.  Hybrids were really only ever a stopgap solution to counter the range anxiety issue and fully EVs are the way ahead, especially if some imaginative thinking is put towards developing solar charging solutions.  The overall benefits are compelling: reduced pollution (noise as well as emissions), reduced oil import costs and cheaper ownership in the medium term.  I test drove the MG last year and it was more impressive than I expected although a little heavy in the steering department.  For those interested in the current state of the EV and home battery industry, I heartily recommend the "Fully Charged Show" on You Tube - it's the best source of unbiased information available. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Greenside