Australian state to impose hefty fines to compel COVID-19 isolation

[FarFlungFalang]

12 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Sorry I'm a bit slow most times but I'm not sure what you're saying here some elucidation maybe required for me to understand your point.I understand that fear is a major player in this pandemic which is causing many to accept the measures used to "combat the pandemic".I see that the governments of the world have had just over 100 years since the 1918 "Spanish Flu" outbreak to prepare for these types of events but I see some politicians blaming their citizens for the spread of this virus and are making them criminals in the process so now it's become a criminal offence to unwittingly infect someone with a virus something that has occurred naturally for hundreds of thousands of years.Do we really need or want to become this way is this the "new normal" you wish to enforce?Do we also have to live in FEAR of our government and it's "health guidelines"?

[tifino]

Just f.e.a.r. what the CCP will come up with next?

[FarFlungFalang]

30 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Difference being there is currently no vaccine for Covid-19, as well as Covid being a great deal more infectious than the flu with more severe medical consequence, such as long-term damage to organs, for survivors across different age groups, including children. We also have to remember Covid-19 has only been in-place for humans for approx six months so way too early to realistically compare to the flu's for damage to society.

I can realistically compare 30-50 million ( about 3% of the global population) deaths in the 1918 Spanish Flu where the severe medical consequences was death which included many children.We have to remember that the flu has proven to be far more deadly than covid-19.

Edited August 5, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[FarFlungFalang]

12 minutes ago, tifino said:

Just f.e.a.r. what the CCP will come up with next?

Covid 20?

[4MyEgo]

12 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Sorry I'm a bit slow most times but I'm not sure what you're saying here some elucidation maybe required for me to understand your point.I understand that fear is a major player in this pandemic which is causing many to accept the measures used to "combat the pandemic".I see that the governments of the world have had just over 100 years since the 1918 "Spanish Flu" outbreak to prepare for these types of events but I see some politicians blaming their citizens for the spread of this virus and are making them criminals in the process so now it's become a criminal offence to unwittingly infect someone with a virus something that has occurred naturally for hundreds of thousands of years.Do we really need or want to become this way is this the "new normal" you wish to enforce?Do we also have to live in FEAR of our government and it's "health guidelines"?

What I am saying is that without fear governments are rendered useless, i.e. they have to crack the whip to pull people in line.

 

If you think we have other options, well, they are not going to listen, as we gave them absolute power, they chop, change, and add legislation as they see fit to control the masses, that's basically it.

 

We don't have the right to choose, as is being shown here, step outside and you will be fined $5,000, x's that x 4 if you do it again.

 

The rules of the game are, do as we tell you, if you don't comply, you will soon find out who has absolute power, this is the way it is, governments aren't going to change unless we vote them out, until such a time, then they have the power, the police force and the army will back them because they control everyone, legislation gives them the right.

 

You and I don't matter to them, suffice to say, I don't see anything wrong with what they are doing, i.e. trying to contain a virus from spreading, if force is needed for those who don't want to comply, then I am all for it, I hope that clears it up, as I said before, they are in power, they rule, we comply or else, I don't see any other solution, let it out to spread and go down the path that Sweden chose, then we would have to get our politicians to change the way they think and allow the specialists in their chosen fields to advise the governments as the Swedish specialist did, i.e. government didn't interfere, they left it to the specialists, their system is different to ours and most around the world, right or wrong ?

[tifino]

It is because of the Karens, that the rest of us are being tarred with the same brush

[utalkin2me]

58 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Difference being there is currently no vaccine for Covid-19, as well as Covid being a great deal more infectious than the flu with more severe medical consequence, such as long-term damage to organs, for survivors across different age groups, including children. We also have to remember Covid-19 has only been in-place for humans for approx six months so way too early to realistically compare to the flu's for damage to society.

You are saying "more infectious", "more damage". But, his point is, how much more? Then compare that amount to our reaction.

 

So let's just call covid 3 times worse than the flu for the sake of argument. Well, our reaction is about 1,000 times stronger. Maybe more. 

 

If we reacted in a similar way we do to the flu, our reaction would not be very severe at all. Sinsible policies, maybe something like wear masks in public, no large gatherings, and protect the vulnerable. Live your lives. But, that is clearly not what we see happening. 

 

There is no very effective vaccine for flu either by the way. Doctors just guess every year. Sometimes they guess right. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by utalkin2me

[simple1]

29 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I can realistically compare 30-50 million ( about 3% of the global population) deaths in the 1918 Spanish Flu where the severe medical consequences was death which included many children. We have to remember that the flu has proven to be far more deadly than covid-19.

Ridiculous to compare events in 1918 with today's health care. pharmaceuticals etc

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

You are saying "more infectious", "more damage". But, his point is, how much more? Then compare that amount to our reaction.

 

So let's just call covid 3 times worse than the flu for the sake of argument. Well, our reaction is about 1,000 times stronger. Maybe more. 

 

If we reacted in a similar way we do to the flu, our reaction would not be very severe at all. Sinsible policies, maybe something like wear masks in public, no large gatherings, and protect the vulnerable. Live your lives. But, that is clearly not what we see happening. 

 

There is no very effective vaccine for flu either by the way. Doctors just guess every year. Sometimes they guess right. 

Flu vaccine average approx 40 - 60 percent effectiveness. can't respond to parts of your post as I haven't seen quoted end to end costs for deaths, treatment, ongoing medical costs and so on. What I do know is many Western governments will invest large sums of money to support the life of a single patient (a friend of mine's daughter will cost government in excess of $1.5 million in ongoing care, even though she is terminally ill). 

 

Unfortunately, there are plenty of morons who willingly ignore government Covid mitigation policies the outcome being governments are spending billions with shutdowns, additional welfare and so on. Right now morons only get a fine, perhaps should enact legislation so that a clear message can be sent; ignore Covid safety instruction - go to jail for X period, plus a fine.

[Grumpy one]

Just think a few weeks back Thailand were prepared to open the country for Australians.

Guess that bubble idea burst 

Who's next China 

[FarFlungFalang]

25 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

What I am saying is that without fear governments are rendered useless, i.e. they have to crack the whip to pull people in line.

 

If you think we have other options, well, they are not going to listen, as we gave them absolute power, they chop, change, and add legislation as they see fit to control the masses, that's basically it.

 

We don't have the right to choose, as is being shown here, step outside and you will be fined $5,000, x's that x 4 if you do it again.

 

The rules of the game are, do as we tell you, if you don't comply, you will soon find out who has absolute power, this is the way it is, governments aren't going to change unless we vote them out, until such a time, then they have the power, the police force and the army will back them because they control everyone, legislation gives them the right.

 

You and I don't matter to them, suffice to say, I don't see anything wrong with what they are doing, i.e. trying to contain a virus from spreading, if force is needed for those who don't want to comply, then I am all for it, I hope that clears it up, as I said before, they are in power, they rule, we comply or else, I don't see any other solution, let it out to spread and go down the path that Sweden chose, then we would have to get our politicians to change the way they think and allow the specialists in their chosen fields to advise the governments as the Swedish specialist did, i.e. government didn't interfere, they left it to the specialists, their system is different to ours and most around the world, right or wrong ?

Yes quite right.Though I thought the courts would have more power than those that were voted in (I've never voted because they said it was compulsory and it turns out it's not compulsory), and the courts would decide if the government has acted in accordance with the legislation if a challenge is made.As you have stated they have the guns to back up their fearful tactics and I do respect your right to not "see anything wrong with what they are doing" and the use of force to comply but using force to make people comply to some vague hope of stopping the spread of a virus which will naturally die out according to the same health experts and then the politicians can claim they were victorious in the battle against the unseen enemy is not my preferred method.They are using force to make people agree with their view they can stop this without any clue if they can or not,if they could stop it why haven't they stopped it yet?As has been asked previously (your turn to answer) How long are you prepared to fight this and punish the healthy whilst people are dying.Why waist valuable resources on the healthy that could be directed at caring for the sick?How long?

[shy coconut]

5 hours ago, DoctorG said:

It is a worldwide conspiracy to rid the world of the unproductive elderly. ????

If so, surely they wouldn't be fining people for breaking isolation orders and 

would be rewarding spreaders.....

[FarFlungFalang]

29 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Ridiculous to compare events in 1918 with today's health care. pharmaceuticals etc

I didn't compare the health care I compared the Sars Cov 2 virus to the H1N1 Influenza virus and it's devastating effects.It maybe ridiculous but I did it and you said I couldn't.

You could also tally up all those that have died as a result of the flu since 1900 and those that have died of Covid-19.That would also be another comparison.

Edited August 5, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[Meat Pie 47]

5 hours ago, DoctorG said:

It is a worldwide conspiracy to rid the world of the unproductive elderly. ????

sick response

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

How long are you prepared to fight this and punish the healthy whilst people are dying.Why waist valuable resources on the healthy that could be directed at caring for the sick?How long?

That is the trillion $ question. Lockdowns appear to work, i.e. if you don't let them out too early as was the case here.

 

The fact of the matter is, it will not stop the virus in its tracks, look at Thailand, 60 plus days without a single domestic infection, at what costs, sooner or later someone who comes from overseas will ignite the spark and it will be on again.

 

Is there a hidden agenda form governments around the world, I don't know, I feel safe in my own bubble, and would love to see a cure for this as much as anyone else would, I just can't like yourself understand why the need to lock down, it damaging and is so complicated, is there something they are not telling us ? 

[Meat Pie 47]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given the economy is stuffed and the coffers are bare, they must have decided, IMO, that they can to get some cash in by fining people ridiculous amounts.

yes Donald

[Meat Pie 47]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Buying food isn't a reason?

If people can't leave house for exercise more will die from medical problems caused by inactivity than the virus.

you talking nothing but rubbish you are allowed to leave home

to buy food

[Olmate]

12 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Yes quite right.Though I thought the courts would have more power than those that were voted in (I've never voted because they said it was compulsory and it turns out it's not compulsory), and the courts would decide if the government has acted in accordance with the legislation if a challenge is made.As you have stated they have the guns to back up their fearful tactics and I do respect your right to not "see anything wrong with what they are doing" and the use of force to comply but using force to make people comply to some vague hope of stopping the spread of a virus which will naturally die out according to the same health experts and then the politicians can claim they were victorious in the battle against the unseen enemy is not my preferred method.They are using force to make people agree with their view they can stop this without any clue if they can or not,if they could stop it why haven't they stopped it yet?As has been asked previously (your turn to answer) How long are you prepared to fight this and punish the healthy whilst people are dying.Why waist valuable resources on the healthy that could be directed at caring for the sick?How long?

Lost the discussion at “I’ve never voted”!

[simple1]

23 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I didn't compare the health care I compared the Sars Cov 2 virus to the H1N1 Influenza virus and it's devastating effects.It maybe ridiculous but I did it and you said I couldn't.

You could also tally up all those that have died as a result of the flu since 1900 and those that have died of Covid-19.That would also be another comparison.

 

 

You could make the comparison, but would be completely irrelevant as is the other stuff

[FarFlungFalang]

16 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Is there a hidden agenda form governments around the world, I don't know, I feel safe in my own bubble, and would love to see a cure for this as much as anyone else would, I just can't like yourself understand why the need to lock down, it damaging and is so complicated, is there something they are not telling us ? 

I did notice the Victorian Premier say "this exercise" in his press conference 2 days ago which I found a bit odd considering that one of the "conspiracy" theory vids ( the Indian woman one) mentions this as a "live exercise".Something smells fishy about this and I feel like the blind guy walking past the fish shop saying "evening ladies"! 

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

Lost the discussion at “I’ve never voted”!

That maybe but I did prove that the teachers that told me voting was compulsory we incorrect or were full of it.I came to the conclusion that some were incorrect and some were just full of it.

[mrfill]

5 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

This type and level of response to the flu hasn't happened before and as can be seen from history the flu can be much worse,even in 2017 1100 died and 2019 900 died from the flu and there wasn't this kind of response and Australia is currently around 247 deaths 7 months into the year.

How many died in the 1918-19 pandemic?

Answer - 12000 out of the 5m population at the time.

[FarFlungFalang]

Here are 2 stories of questions being raised about the "experts" handling of the situation in Victoria just for those that like to trust the health experts running the show!

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/melbourne-nurse-contracts-coronavirus-after-denied-better-ppe/12526430

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/covid-19-abattoir-outbreak-raises-questions-about-dhhs-response/12526816

[Tony125]

On 8/5/2020 at 10:57 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Many will not perish. Some will, but most won't. Those at risk are the ones to isolate, not everyone, IMO.

 

What happens if the "holy grail" never comes forward? Even if a vaccine is developed ( and that isn't guaranteed ) it isn't going to be available for everyone- 8 billion people in the world. What happens if it's like flu and keeps mutating?

 

Exactly, and how long can they realistically keep locking down everytime the disease strikes again, as it will? Years and years?

 

I'm a fan of the Swedish solution.

You say even if a viable vaccine(s) is developed how to innoculate 8 billion people. You

forget polio has been eradicated from the world as well as smallpox by vacs. Since this virus is easily spread and deadly the rich countries will make sure the poorer countries get it just to prevent thier countries(rich)   from being infected. First article shows what has been erridicated worlwide  2nd those that have been irradicated in US and many 1st world countries and can be done away with more money around the world.

 

1. What diseases have vaccines eradicated?

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17588074/vaccines-diseases-wiped-out

 

2. Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines)

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/forgot-14-diseases.html

 

Did you know your child can get measles just by being in a room where a person with measles has been, even up to two hours after that person has left? Measles is very contagious

 

 

 

[Tony125]

On 8/5/2020 at 10:57 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Many will not perish. Some will, but most won't. Those at risk are the ones to isolate, not everyone, IMO.

 

What happens if the "holy grail" never comes forward? Even if a vaccine is developed ( and that isn't guaranteed ) it isn't going to be available for everyone- 8 billion people in the world. What happens if it's like flu and keeps mutating?

 

Exactly, and how long can they realistically keep locking down everytime the disease strikes again, as it will? Years and years?

 

I'm a fan of the Swedish solution.

Dr. Fauci predicts drugmakers will likely produce 1 billion COVID-19 vaccines by the end of 2021

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-fauci-predicts-drugmakers-will-likely-produce-1-billion-covid-19-vaccines-by-the-end-of-2021/ar-BB17CnbR?li=BBnb7Kz

[FarFlungFalang]

Victorian Premier Dan Andrews saying the buck stops with him.In trying to save a few bucks by subcontracting out the quarantine to private companies has resulted in him having to claim responsibility for the "second wave" which is really the first wave delayed a bit.I can't see any option but a resignation.He will have claimed responsibility for the many deaths and the major disruption to the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in his lockdown as well as a 10-12 billion dollar hit at this stage to the Australian economy.How bad can someone kcuf something up?Just ask Dan."It takes a worried man to sing a worried song" 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/victorian-coronavirus-dan-andrews-grilled-on-hotel-quarantine/12531286

[Tony125]

2 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Victorian Premier Dan Andrews saying the buck stops with him.In trying to save a few bucks by subcontracting out the quarantine to private companies has resulted in him having to claim responsibility for the "second wave" which is really the first wave delayed a bit.I can't see any option but a resignation.He will have claimed responsibility for the many deaths and the major disruption to the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in his lockdown as well as a 10-12 billion dollar hit at this stage to the Australian economy.How bad can someone kcuf something up?Just ask Dan."It takes a worried man to sing a worried song" 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-06/victorian-coronavirus-dan-andrews-grilled-on-hotel-quarantine/12531286

Watch the vid--doesn't  one cop have his knee on the woman's neck  just like in the George Floyd case ?

 

COVID TAKEDOWN 

Shocking moment cops pin screaming mum to floor for ‘breaking lockdown’ .

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1263271/melbourne-mum-pinned-cops-lockdown-rules/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly

[rabang]

Australia seems like a police state in making on par with the USSR and East Germany. Expect more viral "outbreaks" and lock-downs for years to come. Do they think this can be completely eradicated without closing the borders forever?

 

Don't worry though, it is all for your "safety".

Edited August 6, 2020 by rabang

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.   This thread is about Australia. 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

8 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Watch the vid--doesn't  one cop have his knee on the woman's neck  just like in the George Floyd case ?

 

COVID TAKEDOWN 

Shocking moment cops pin screaming mum to floor for ‘breaking lockdown’ .

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1263271/melbourne-mum-pinned-cops-lockdown-rules/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly

Pretty disturbing and not what I would call a dignified approach to dealing with a health issue.More proof of people going insane with fear.