American expats and Absentee Voting

[RocketDog]

On 8/17/2020 at 8:41 AM, MrBrad said:

I've always deposited my ballot at the Consulate for postage-free delivery to Minnesota (which does not permit email or fax delivery). 

 

I've found that doing so, however, has resulted in slow delivery...up to a month!  In fact, once for a primary election some years ago my ballot remained at the Consulate without being sent on to the States.  At that time I wrote to the Consul General to inform her that my ballot was never received by my county clerk.  It was eventually found and sent on, although weeks after the election.  She promised that ballots would receive full attention by her staff, and that it wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) happen again.  Since then, my ballots have been received in time to be counted.  (The Minnesota Secretary of State's website is good about posting when the ballot was received at the county level.)

 

This fall, though, given the gravity of this crucial election, to say nothing for the decisive and diabolical messing around with the postal system, I will spend the unnecessary baht to send my ballot by FedEx.

Your last sentence is precisely my final conclusion. My daughter will then deliver it by hand to the county ballot box. 

[RocketDog]

On 8/17/2020 at 5:26 PM, ChouDoufu said:

no postmark?

 

https://nypost.com/2020/08/15/fedex-and-ups-say-they-cant-help-deliver-mail-in-ballots/

As I will do, send a family member who will mail it for you. 

[RocketDog]

On 8/17/2020 at 4:08 PM, Srikcir said:

I understand that the "postage free" amounts to 2nd class mail versus 1st class mail. Hence, mailing time may be much longer. Some have advised that when mailing ballot within the US to place 55 cents postage on the prepaid envelope to assure first class delivery. Of course, that's aside from sorters being removed and USPS personnel not allowed overtime.

Very good tip. This forum is served a good purpose is helping everybody get their vote counted. 

[jimgilly]

7 hours ago, amexpat said:

That's what Russians are posting on US social media. Maybe it worked last time. 

No I'm a realist unlike yourself who knows the game is rigged.  Doesn't matter which party wins, the outcome is the same.  Country is in the tank and it's going to get a  lot worse. 

[Ozziepat]

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Your last sentence is precisely my final conclusion. My daughter will then deliver it by hand to the county ballot box. 

Please check on the rules in your state. It's possible that an absentee ballot must be returned by mail.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/17/2020 at 1:46 PM, VillageIdiot said:

Trump's apointee as Ambassador to Thailand was Michael G. DeSombre, a corporate lawyer who had led his firm's mergers and acquisitions department.

 

He's a Republican National Committee fundraiser with no particular prior diplomatic experience, except being a Trump supporter, which of course is the most important thing these days.

 

I wouldn't make any assumptions that he's going to be any better than Trump's hand picked Postal Service head, who just got finished throwing the whole election season mail system into chaos... only to then back down and postpone his recent policy changes.

 

[RocketDog]

11 minutes ago, Ozziepat said:

Please check on the rules in your state. It's possible that an absentee ballot must be returned by mail.

Understood.

 

Colorado is a mail ballot state for several years. My daughter will FedEx my ballot to me here when it comes to my house and I'll send it back to her the same way. When I'm home I always just drive down and drop it in the ballot box in front of the county courthouse. She will do that this year. 

 

Sadly I didn't vote for president in 2016 as I didn't think either candidate was qualified. The folly of that is now evident. 

 

This time I would vote for Mickey Mouse if he's the Democratic candidate. In fact I'll vote a straight democratic slate. They can hardly do worse than Agent Orange and his merry band of criminal sycophants. 

[unblocktheplanet]

Frankly, I have little faith in voting anywhere, including the US or Thailand. Emma Goldman got it right, "If voting could change anything, it would be illegal." It's smoke-and-mirrirs to brainwash us into think we habe a voice when, of course, we don't.

 

Nevertheless, I feel duty-bound abandon my anarchist principles to vote against any more Reality TV, mostly due to Covid, warmongering, and environmental depredation. And lies. I just don't think the planet will ever recover from four more years of Bozo the Clown.

 

We should be reminded that Thailand Post is NOT sending airmail overseas. Thus we risk our ballots being uncounted. I am so dedicated to this pursuit is that I will use a $100 courier, if necessary.

 

I would not trust either the embassy or any consulate. Too much is riding on this one.

[unblocktheplanet]

On 8/18/2020 at 6:03 PM, jimgilly said:

How could anyone in their right mind vote for either candidate?  The election is going to be a farce like pretty much everything else.  Save your postage as like every other election, it's not going to make any difference.

You're right, of course. The only hope against the Republicrats are effective third parties. They have not been accepted since the Red Scare in the Great Depression! So voting against the Idiot-in-Chief is our only option this go-round.

 

I'll renounce my US citizenship if other Yanquis choose The Apprentice star a second term.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:04 AM, bronzedude said:

I just downloaded, filled out an absentee ballot request and sent it to the email address for my State. This part seemed easy. I hope I receive the appropriate ballots by email and then are able to send them back by email. We'll see. Thanks for the link.

 

I did the same for my state. And got an email response back saying my ballot request had been accepted and approved....

 

BUT, they then added that the pres. election ballot would not be send out (in my case requested to receive by email) until 45 days before the election...  That doesn't leave a lot of time for anyone international who decides or needs to return their voted ballot by postal mail.

 

I need to check and see what return options my state may have OTHER than returning by postal mail. Trump and his Postal Service lackey have made this a sh** show....

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/19/2020 at 10:54 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

We should be reminded that Thailand Post is NOT sending airmail overseas. Thus we risk our ballots being uncounted.

 

Even if Thai Post were sending airmail back to the U.S., or you were using EMS, the mail handling once it arrives back in the U.S. would still be handled by the USPS.

 

And I believe the same is true if you're giving your ballot to the Embassy or Consulate here. They collect them and send them back to the U.S. supposedly, where, the delivery to the various election agencies is all handled once again by the USPS.

 

None of which is especially reassuring in current times.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/18/2020 at 9:08 PM, RocketDog said:

Very good tip. This forum is served a good purpose is helping everybody get their vote counted. 

 

From what I've read, the USPS's long-time custom is to TREAT 2nd class ballot materials as though they were First Class mail in terms of handling and delivery.  Apparently, DeJoy's proposals include trying to require that all ballot materials must have First Class postage if they expect to be handled as First Class mail.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Some useful info on when various states send/mail out their absentee ballots to requestors:

 

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-7-when-states-mail-out-absentee-ballots.aspx

 

 

Quote

 

• Eight states begin mailing absentee ballots to voters more than 45 days before the election: Arkansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, West Virginia and Wisconsin.
• Fifteen states begin mailing absentee ballots to voters 45 days before the election: Alabama, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia and Wyoming.
• Twelve states begin mailing absentee ballots to voters 30-45 days before the election: California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, North Dakota and South Carolina.
• Fifteen states mail absentee ballots to voters fewer than 30 days before the election: Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, Oregon, Utah and Washington.

Note that in Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington, all voters are mailed ballots.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's some 2019 era info from the various states that allow some electronic method of voting ballots for military AND/OR overseas citizens. I'm not yet finding an updated 2020 version of this kind of info.

 

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/internet-voting.aspx

 

• Quote

   

  • Nineteen states + DC allow some voters to return ballots via email or fax: Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Utah, and Washington.
  • Seven states allow some voters to return ballots via fax: Alaska, California, Florida, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Rhode Island and Texas.
  • Nineteen states do not allow electronic transmission. Voters must return voted ballots via postal mail: Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming. 

   

But the above info, in addition to being a year old, appears to be somewhat generalized... For instance, the list above says Texas allows faxed return of ballots for "some voters."

 

But when you dig into the Texas Sec. of State's website, you discover that the voting by fax provision only applies to military members in official hostile/combat pay zones, and NOT at all regular overseas civilians, as follows:

 

 

Quote

 

How do you return the ballot to the Early Voting Clerk?

• Hard copy by mail, or common or contract courier (like any other ballot by mail)
• IF from military voter (or spouse or dependent) in hostile fire pay / imminent danger pay / combat zone, may be faxed using authorized channels.
• Marked ballots may not be e-mailed under Texas law, regardless of voter’s status.

 

https://www.votetexas.gov/military-overseas-voters/

 

Quote

Voters in Combat Zones/Hostile Fire Pay Areas

Pursuant to Section 105.001 of the Code, military voters stationed in recognized hostile fire, imminent danger pay areas, or areas designated as combat zones by the President of the United States are authorized to return an early voting ballot by telephonic facsimile transmission (fax). Only military voters on active duty and their spouses or dependents stationed in these areas qualify to submit their voted ballots in this manner.  (The ballot may not be returned by email regardless of category.)

 

https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/advisory-2014-17-procedures-fwab.shtml

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Got an email today from Democrats Abroad with some useful advice re voting abroad and ways of returning the voted ballot, geared to my home state of Texas, but also generally applicable:

 

Quote

 

Your state (TX) is one of 23 or so that require voters abroad to return a hard copy ballot, but there is no airmail service between Thailand and the USA.

 

You have 2 options, one fast/expensive, and one slow/free:

1) Fast but expensive. EMS is available at Thai post offices, but the cost is almost 1,000 Baht. DHL and such will run higher.

 

2) Free but slow. The embassy and consulate will take your ballot to the US and will put it in a mailbox. This is a free service, but they say allow 2-4 weeks. You can either take your ballot to the embassy or consulate, or you can send your ballot to the embassy or consulate via Thai postal mail.

 

Note that what you take or send must be US Postal Service ready -- this is not a big challenge; follow the instructions here:

sending_ballots_and_absentee_ballot_requests_via_postal_mail

 

That link also includes the instructions on sending your ballot to the embassy or consulate via Thai postal mail.

You are surely aware that the Trump administration has been implementing "operational changes" at the postal service which have slowed down mail delivery. This delay is on top of the 2-4 weeks that the embassy/consulate requires.

If you will use the free embassy/consulate service, you need to vote before late September!!

 

 

FWIW, I had to mail a document back to the U.S. lately, and it paid to check around with the different private couriers via their TH websites -- FedEx, DHL and UPS mainly -- on their various rate offerings... Including some better rates if you order your mailing online via their TH websites vs doing by telephone or walk-in. Also some of them have different classes and prices of service for the same route (TH to US).

 

Because of an online promotion that UPS was offering at the time once you created an online account on their website, I was able to mail my document with them for several hundred baht less than the normal EMS rate for TH to the US... But that was a limited time promotion, at that time.

 

BTW, Dems Abroad also cautioned people who may have been receiving their absentee ballots in the past via postal mail to TH that that probably won't work this year because of the timeframes involved.  So instead of getting a late mailed ballot, they advised such people to put in a new absentee ballot request to your state this year, and to specify that you want this year's ballot sent to you by email or fax.

 

 

[MrBrad]

On 8/20/2020 at 12:54 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

We should be reminded that Thailand Post is NOT sending airmail overseas. Thus we risk our ballots being uncounted. I am so dedicated to this pursuit is that I will use a $100 courier, if necessary.

 

For what it's worth, it appears that as of a couple of days ago Thai Post is again providing international airmail. 

 

On this link, the first page or so is in Thai, but English follows:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OGkBLRXkgaOuA-x2N-I2fLe0faBrUXeu/view

 

[Dante99]

 

 

Do you mean that they are providing EMS?

 

It does not appear that they are providing airmail letter service to the US.   Or do I need another eye check and new lenses?

[mtls2005]

9 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

It does not appear that they are providing airmail letter service to the US.   Or do I need another eye check and new lenses?

 

EMS World Letter 880 THB

CourierPost   990 THB

 

No 37 THB airmail yet.

 

I'e used both EMS and CourierPost recently. Both are reliable. 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

EMS World Letter 880 THB

CourierPost   990 THB

 

No 37 THB airmail yet.

 

I'e used both EMS and CourierPost recently. Both are reliable. 

 

 

But be aware, the local handling and delivery in the U.S. for any incoming international EMS mail is still the U.S. P.S....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:37 AM, mtls2005 said:

 

EMS World Letter 880 THB

CourierPost   990 THB

 

No 37 THB airmail yet.

 

I'e used both EMS and CourierPost recently. Both are reliable. 

 

I stopped by my local Post Office in BKK today, and inquired about the current mailing to the U.S. situation for things like a letter. The guy I spoke with in English claimed there were only two methods available (though I think there may be more...):

 

1. He quoted me 880 baht for EMS, which he said applies for anything up to 100g, 200g, maybe even 300g in weight.

 

2. He also said I could send the same kind of things by "E-Packet" for a price of 260b, which is a method I've read about on TVF and ThaiPost site previously... I thought it required doing some kind of formal registration process in advance with the PO... But the guy today said no, just bring your item in and pay for "E-Packet" postage.

 

Both methods, he said, provide for tracking. But either way, he was estimating delivery to the U.S. at present would likely take 3 - 4 weeks... and I'm not sure if he meant just to get to the U.S., or for the item to actually make it to its final destination.

 

[Rama]

https://www.votefromabroad.org/

[moontang]

Virgina accepts email ballots, FYI.  Thai Post international is problematic, at the moment, and in Thai style, you get different answers from different people/offices.  I sent my mom a camouflage face mask in late April, surface mail.  It arrived two weeks ago.  I went in to mail my request for absentee ballot, and got the run-around..took a photo of it with phone and emailed it...no problem.  Our county clerk told me ballots would be emailed in mid September.

[TooBigToFit]

I'd like to get an absentee ballot sent to me. I mailed my request through the embassy in July. I don't have a lot of hope. The system failed me in the past. I received my absentee ballot the day after the election. It had nothing on the envelope to prove that. There were no time or date stamps or postage markings. Anyone caught tampering with the mail should just be executed no matter what party they belong to. They have punishments but nothing ever seems to be done. T

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, TooBigToFit said:

I'd like to get an absentee ballot sent to me. I mailed my request through the embassy in July. I don't have a lot of hope. The system failed me in the past. I received my absentee ballot the day after the election. It had nothing on the envelope to prove that. There were no time or date stamps or postage markings. Anyone caught tampering with the mail should just be executed no matter what party they belong to. They have punishments but nothing ever seems to be done. T

 

This year, if you want to actually vote, you need to put in a new absentee ballot request with your state and specify that you want the ballot sent to you by email or fax, not by postal mail.  At least that way, you'll be likely to receive it well before the election, even if you then have to return it by postal mail (depending on the rules in your particular state).

 

This year, NO ONE outside the U.S. should be relying on their state to send them their ballot via postal mail, as that's almost certain to basically rule out your ability to cast a ballot in time. Getting the ballot by email or similar is the way to go.

 

 

[Rama]

how to do an emergency backup ballot - https://www.votefromabroad.org/fwab/

[watgate]

I am confused about sending my absentee ballot back to the US. You need 2 envelopes. I am supposed to mail an envelope to the US Consulate. The second envelope, which you are suppose to put inside the 1st envelope addressed to the US Consulate, is to be addressed to your local state election office and you enclose your ballot inside. Where I am confused is the 2nd envelope needs to be postage paid or have sufficient US postage to be delivered to your local election office from the US sorting facility. If the mail is going by courier from the US consulate to the US sorting facility, how much postage is needed on the envelope with your absentee ballot in it in order for it to be sent to your local state election office?

     When I went to the Thai Post Office they quoted me a price pf 880 baht for an envelope to be mailed to the US and they said that is the only way. Can i go to the thai post office and just pay for postage paid or the correct amount that is needed for the envelope with my absentee ballot to be sent from the US sorting facility to my  local election office  in the US. What would that cost be and can you buy it to have it put on the envelope at the Thai Post Office?  I am very confused and maybe someone can straighten me out on this matter.

     

[NancyL]

On this page, you'll find a U.S. postage paid first class "envelope".  Actually it's a PDF of the front of an envelope that you print and tape to that second envelope that holds your ballot that you put inside the first envelope you address to the U.S. Consulate Chiang Mai.  The second envelope, with the U.S. postage should be addressed to your local voting authority in the U.S.

 

https://www.fvap.gov/eo/overview/materials/forms

[MrBrad]

To muddy the waters a bit more:

• If you personally hand-deliver your ballot to the Consulate or Embassy, you should use 2 envelopes.
  • The envelope containing only your ballot should not have any address or name on it.  It is a secret ballot which the election officials should not be able to connect with you by name. 
  • The envelope as described above should be inserted into a larger envelope, either postage-paid or having US postage stamps affixed.  This larger envelope will be addressed to your voting place.  You will or may also include your return address on the outside of this envelope.  Along with the smaller envelope containing your ballot, you may be required to submit a voter registration form inside the larger envelope.  The form will be used to verify your eligibility to vote.  (This is how it is done in Minnesota; your state may differ.)
• If you use Thai Post to deliver your ballot to the US Consulate or Embassy, you would need a third envelope.  That one would contain the two envelopes as described above.

[moontang]

4 hours ago, MrBrad said:

To muddy the waters a bit more:

• If you personally hand-deliver your ballot to the Consulate or Embassy, you should use 2 envelopes.
  • The envelope containing only your ballot should not have any address or name on it.  It is a secret ballot which the election officials should not be able to connect with you by name. 
  • The envelope as described above should be inserted into a larger envelope, either postage-paid or having US postage stamps affixed.  This larger envelope will be addressed to your voting place.  You will or may also include your return address on the outside of this envelope.  Along with the smaller envelope containing your ballot, you may be required to submit a voter registration form inside the larger envelope.  The form will be used to verify your eligibility to vote.  (This is how it is done in Minnesota; your state may differ.)
• If you use Thai Post to deliver your ballot to the US Consulate or Embassy, you would need a third envelope.  That one would contain the two envelopes as described above.

Should state no "return address" on the envelope addressed to the local election official.

 

Step one should be to print out and fill out a copy of the Voter Registration and Request For Absentee Ballot Form.  Then just take a phone camera picture of it and send it as an attachment to [email protected]

These folks will get right back to you and tell you where you stand and what you need to do next.  In my case, I just sent a duplicate email to my local election official.  I am now just waiting on my email ballot, due mid September.  I am assuming I can execute it online.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Quote

 

Americans living abroad fear their ballots won't make it in time

(CNN)When Keith Silverang went to request his absentee ballot from the local election office in the county where he was last a permanent resident in the US, he followed the same procedure he's followed when voting abroad in every general presidential election since the early 1990s.

 

He emailed his local election official in Bergen County, New Jersey, with the forms requesting an absentee ballot in May -- earlier than he normally would, but given the coronavirus pandemic, he wanted to be prepared. He didn't hear back for months.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/19/politics/election-2020-americans-voting-abroad/index.html