Black man shot in back by police in Wisconsin city, governor says, curfew imposed

[Mama Noodle]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Re Rittenhouse, according to a NYT opinion article:

 

Now here’s a real article, not an opinion piece, with real source material, real video, and real court document citations. 
 

Kenosha Court Docs Suggest Shooting Was Self-Defense; New Video Shows Another Gun Shot First

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/kenosha-court-docs-suggest-shooting-was-self-defense-new-video-shows-another-gun-shot-first

[Mama Noodle]

At this point in this thread, most everyone was patently wrong about both Kyle Rittenhouse and Jacob Blake. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

36 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Kenosha Court Docs Suggest Shooting Was Self-Defense; New Video Shows Another Gun Shot First

 

 

That's presumably the argument he/they will try to make. Except, no indication that Rittenhouse was actually shot AT by anyone, though he certainly responded by shooting other people.

 

And, not surprising to get that slant on the version of what happened from:

 

Quote

The Daily Wire is one of America’s fastest-growing conservative media companies and counter-cultural outlets for news, opinion, and entertainment.

 

I'm sure Militia Daily and the Oath Keepers and Three Percenters will be along soon with a similar take.

 

Also, will be interesting to see how his presumed self-defense argument will fare legally, given that fact that his conduct occurred while he was committing two different other criminal offenses -- breaking curfew and a minor in possession of a firearm.

 

An analogy might be... someone goes to rob a bank with a gun... The bank guard confronts the robber with a gun, and the robber then shoots the guard... Can the robber plead self defense because he was being threatened by the armed guard?  Don't think so!!!

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ravip]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:44 PM, Puchaiyank said:

Most people in the US agree that there is a need for wholesale police reform.

 

The irony of the news reporting is that police mistreating blacks is a fraction of the black on black crime which largely goes unreported. 

 

Why aren't the blacks policing their own neighborhoods?

Why aren't the blacks policing their own neighborhoods?

 

Who decide who Police whom?

Wretched racism will never end - a trait 'hidden' under good and fair.

Very few will openly admit that they are racists... but they are!

[Sujo]

He only had the long gun as self defence against the right malitia because he was there to assist anyone that was hurt. Breaking curfew, breaking the gun laws doesnt matter. He was there to help.

 

Sarcasm

[Sujo]

44 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

At this point in this thread, most everyone was patently wrong about both Kyle Rittenhouse and Jacob Blake. 

Well we know you are wrong

[ravip]

On 8/25/2020 at 6:21 AM, BritManToo said:

The video clearly shows he was unarmed and shot in the back 7x from an arms length.

There's no excuse in the world anyone can make to justify this crime.

The policeman needs to go to jail for the rest of his life.

For this type of brutality, life imprisonment is a luxury.

Yet, there will be many who will unashamedly justify this with pathetic fairy tales.

Life is such, in this 'developed' world.

[Mama Noodle]

21 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And, not surprising to get that slant on the version of what happened from:

As per usual, incapable of attacking the content. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, ravip said:

For this type of brutality, life imprisonment is a luxury.

Yet, there will be many who will unashamedly justify this with pathetic fairy tales.

Life is such, in this 'developed' world.

 

The sad realities of life in America these days:

 

--a black American is part of some domestic disturbance call, gets into a confrontation with police, and is tasered and ultimately is shot in the back multiple times by a police officer (I believe I read one report that said he was actually hit by 4 of the 7 shots fired). He had no gun, not clear about the role of the knife, and is almost killed.

 

--a white teenager goes out after curfew and with an illegal weapon and shoots and kills two people, and seriously wounds a third. Multiple people nearby are calling out to several police vehicles right at the scene saying, in paraphrase, "Hey, this guy is the shooter."  And the police simply ignore the teenager walking down the street with his hands up and a rifle slung over his shoulder, and let him walk away...

 

 

[ravip]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The sad realities of life in America these days:

 

--a black American is part of some domestic disturbance call, gets into a confrontation with police, and is tasered and ultimately is shot in the back multiple times by a police officer (I believe I read one report that said he was actually hit by 4 of the 7 shots fired). He had no gun, not clear about the role of the knife, and is almost killed.

 

--a white teenager goes out after curfew and with an illegal weapon and shoots and kills two people, and seriously wounds a third. Multiple people nearby are calling out to several police vehicles right at the scene saying, in paraphrase, "Hey, this guy is the shooter."  And the police simply ignore the teenager walking down the street with his hands up and a rifle slung over his shoulder, and let him walk away...

 

 

THIS, is development! Education! etc. etc.

Shooting an unarmed person in the back! 7 times! WOW! The WOW meter has broken all records!

Oh, I'd love to hear the best fairy tale that could justify this.

 

Today, life's greatest issue is two tiered pricing in Thailand.

Of God, please develop my brain to understand this lovely logic.

[Mama Noodle]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The sad realities of life in America these days:

Aside from you and others being patently wrong the whole thread and only now begrudgingly acknowledging the facts as we know them and now shifting the goalposts ALL the way here - those 2 situations are completely different and only a partisan like yourself believes your made-up framing - and I’ll tell you why:

 

One guy was surrendering, and the other was not.

 

But you keep on, all this and now the violence in DC against wounded vets, US congress members, and elderly bystanders is gonna cost y’all the election - and I really believe that. 

[Mama Noodle]

4 minutes ago, ravip said:

Shooting an unarmed person in the back!

He had a knife. 

[ravip]

Just now, Mama Noodle said:

He had a knife. 

OK. The shooting (7 times) is justified!

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

As per usual, incapable of attacking the content. 

 

What's to attack? No indication Rittenhouse was shot AT by anyone. Yes he was in confrontation with protesters. And yes he was the one who ended up shooting and killing two people and wounding a third. He, from all indications, wasn't injured to any significant extent.

 

Except for an account from a right-wing (Tucker Carlson-founded) Daily Caller writer at the scene, no other indication in the report as to what transpired that led to the original chase/confrontation between Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum that preceded the first shooting.

 

Ultimately, if the prosecutors thought he had a legitimate self defense claim, they more than likely would not have announced the whole set of homicide charges they're planning to file.

 

As for your article claiming the court documents "appear to suggest" he acted in self defense, that's the similarly right-wing Daily Wire site's opinion.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

One guy was surrendering, and the other was not.

 

One guy was a killer. The other was not... But look who walks away unharmed past numerous police officers, and look who is shot in the back multiple times by a police officer and is nearly killed.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

What's to attack? No indication Rittenhouse was shot AT by anyone. Yes he was in confrontation with protesters. And yes he was the one who ended up shooting and killing two people and wounding a third. He, from all indications, wasn't injured to any significant extent.

 

Except for an account from a right-wing (Tucker Carlson-founded) Daily Caller writer at the scene, no other indication in the report as to what transpired that led to the original chase/confrontation between Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum that preceded the first shooting.

 

Ultimately, if the prosecutors thought he had a legitimate self defense claim, they more than likely would not have announced the whole set of homicide charges they're planning to file.

 

As for your article claiming the court documents "appear to suggest" he acted in self defense, that's the similarly right-wing Daily Wire site's opinion.

 

They have to file charges against the shooter to minimize the violence, regardless of their ultimate objective.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

They have to file charges against the shooter to minimize the violence, regardless of their ultimate objective.

 

Hasn't seemed to bother the local prosecutors in the Breonna Taylor killing, who have charged no one over a period of multiple months after her fatal shooting in her home by police. Even though one of the police officers involved has already been fired by his department.

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Except for an account from a right-wing (Tucker Carlson-founded) Daily Caller writer at the scene,

You mean the guy they felt was a significant enough eyewitness that his statement was included in the court documents relating to the prosecution? 
 

As I said, as per usual, incapable of attacking the context. 

[Mama Noodle]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Hasn't seemed to bother the local prosecutors in the Breonna Taylor killing, who have charged no one over a period of multiple months after her fatal shooting in her home by police. Even though one of the police officers involved has already been fired by his department.

Aaaaaand strawman. It’s all you do. “but but but this other thing that has nothing to do with the current discussion” 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Going to be interesting to see how Rittenhouse's trial plays out.... assuming he has one... for a couple of reasons,...

 

The current Wisconsin governor, Tony Evers, who was just elected and began serving in 2019, isn't a likely candidate to consider pardoning Rittenhouse on a self-defense claim --  unlike the Republican governor in Missouri who has talked about pardoning the gun nut McCloskeys in the event they are convicted.

 

And, Trump, for whatever time he has remaining in office, has no pardon or sentence commuting authority for someone convicted on state court charges... So even if he were to end up being re-elected, he presumably couldn't do anything with a state case against Rittenhouse, except perhaps get the Justice Department involved somehow.

 

Quote

Under the Constitution, only federal criminal convictions, such as those adjudicated in the United States District Courts, may be pardoned by the President. In addition, the President's pardon power extends to convictions adjudicated in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia and military court-martial proceedings. However, the President cannot pardon a state criminal offense.

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon-information-and-instructions

 

[Mama Noodle]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

One guy was a killer. The other was not... But look who walks away unharmed past numerous police officers, and look who is shot in the back multiple times by a police officer and is nearly killed.

 

 

This whole line of argument is absurd. 
 

If rifle kid put up a fight like Blake did he’d be shot to hell and back too. 
 

Instead he was trying to surrender. That’s why he’s not dead. Blake was not, and that’s why he’s dead. Got f-all to do with his privilage or color or whatever else fantasy you can make up. 

[Mama Noodle]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Going to be interesting to see how Rittenhouse's trial plays out.... assuming he has one... for a couple of reasons,...

Just so we’re all clear, you’re the only one bringing up pardons. 
 

The argument you guys keep pushing is that rifle kid is a premeditated murderer and killer - and that patently false. 
 

He broke a boatload of serious laws but a murderer he is not. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

 

This whole line of argument is absurd. 
 

If rifle kid put up a fight like Blake did he’d be shot to hell and back too. 
 

Instead he was trying to surrender. That’s why he’s not dead. Blake was not, and that’s why he’s dead. Got f-all to do with his privilage or color or whatever else fantasy you can make up. 

 

The point isn't that Rittenhouse wasn't SHOT by police... The obvious point is... unlike the black man Jacob Blake, white teenager Rittenhouse wasn't even detained by police after fatally shooting two people and wounding a third, even as he walked past police with the rifle over his shoulder and his hands raised in surrender position, while the crowd around yelled out, "He's the shooter!!!"

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Just so we’re all clear, you’re the only one bringing up pardons. 
 

 

The conservative Republican governor in Missouri is already talking about granting a self defense pardon to the gun nut McCloskeys, before they've even gone to trial. Not unreasonable to think that a similar governor in Wisconsin, if there were one, would be operating in the same mode... just as Trump has spoken out for the McCloskeys and even had them speak at the RNC... Republican heroes for threatening people with guns.

 

My point in mentioning the issue with Rittenhouse is, unlike the McCloskeys, he doesn't appear likely to end up in any kind of position where any right-wing Republican gun sympathizer could grant him a pardon.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mama Noodle]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The point isn't that Rittenhouse wasn't SHOT by police... The obvious point is... unlike the black man Jacob Blake, white teenager Rittenhouse wasn't even detained by police after fatally shooting two people and wounding a third, even as he walked past police with the rifle over his shoulder and his hands raised in surrender position, while the crowd around yelled out, "He's the shooter!!!"

You seem to love the whole crowd shouted something from a 100+ meters away thing, but you clearly haven’t been inside an APC - ya can’t hear chit outside unless you have comms, which the rioters obviously didn’t have. So, how are the cops in an APC supposed to know what the crowd was shouting. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

You seem to love the whole crowd shouted something from a 100+ meters away thing, but you clearly haven’t been inside an APC - ya can’t hear chit outside unless you have comms, which the rioters obviously didn’t have. So, how are the cops in an APC supposed to know what the crowd was shouting. 

 

In the video, there are a couple of police trucks that pass him, but mainly, he's walking right toward a parked regular police squad car with the video showing an officer outside of the car as Rittenhouse approaches.

 

And of course, that's apart from the police earlier in the night meeting the baby-faced teenage rifle toter among a group of militia types after curfew on the street, and doing absolutely nothing about that either, except passing out bottled water to him and the other adult guys carrying rifles after curfew.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, ravip said:

Why aren't the blacks policing their own neighborhoods?

That's what Bill Cosby asked, telling the 'hood to get their act together and quit blaming whitey. Then we found out that Cosby, like so many in the 'hood, isn't among any black lives that matter. Fortunately we have stalwarts like Obama and Colin Powell that matter; to say that all black lives matter is not only absurd, but greatly cheapens their accomplishments and example.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Comparisons are acceptable, but they do not become the focus of the thread.   Please stay on topic.  

 

[bodga]

On 8/27/2020 at 10:16 PM, Sujo said:

While they are at it defund the police so neanderthals dont shoot black people as a norm. Send professionals in de escalation in.

and maybe offer  them a  holiday and some money as well  eh?  A  lot of these protestors like the  ones in the Uk have too  much time on their  hands  ie unemployed and often the dregs of society just  an opportunity to go  looting and have  a  laugh.

[tribalfusion001]

Police shoot one guy seven times in the back and a seventeen year vigilante walks around with an assualt rifle shooting people dead, what a messed up country the USA is. Likely to get a lot worse nearer to the election.