24 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Please stop with the ridiculous stories of leg shots, it's a lie. Any shot to the leg was one meant for the mid section. 

Maybe you shold educate yourselves before you assume anything you do not know anything about. 

 

Emotional speech by LA Clippers coach Doc Rivers re the Wisc. shooting:

 

 

A post with an incorrect quote has been removed

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

There are no excuses for 7 bullets in the back.

There are no excuses for shooting him in front of his 3 children who were also in the car.

It doesn't matter how bad a man he was, or how many warrants were out for his arrest.

 

The policeman needs to spend the rest of his life in jail, end of.

If the policeman doesn't go to jail, not only will America burn, but it will deserve to burn.

well said 

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I read reports in which it says he was waving a knife about prior to going to his vehicle. The police were ordering him to stop and tried to taser him ( the taser failed which apparently they do regularly). He was reaching in his vehicle when shot.

 

Police officers attending had been told there was a warrant for sexual assault and domestic violence outstanding and that he had previous firearms convictions including threatening people in a bar. He also had convictions for assaulting police.

 

The officers would have treated him as a dangerous person. He would have heightened that by not following their commands. They could be faced with him pulling a gun out from his vehicle.

 

However, that doesn't explain why an office felt the need to shoot him 7 times from very close range. 

 

This needs much more investigation but isn't just someone being innocent just because the color of their skin; or a police office r acting reasonably.  But the media hype to fuel the fires for their own agendas don't help.

Did the 2 other tazers also fail?

 

On 8/25/2020 at 11:49 AM, RichardColeman said:

OK, so ask yourself this. Two English speaking REAL Thai policemen point guns at you.

 

Do you :

 

A. Put your hands up and stand still and comply with the Police demands.

or 

B. Walk away, ignore there demands, open a car door and reach into an area the police cannot see.

 

 

Thai Police, corrupt though they may be, would not be stupid enough to act this way. 

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So, if he was reaching for a gun, as the officers had information he previously was armed, you still wouldn't think it right for the police to shoot him, children present or not.

 

Clearly, 7 shots in the back seems inexcusable and mad. And the officer must be processed properly, transparently, in accordance with the law.

 

But is acting in such way, in front of your children, defying lawful police commands, acceptable behavior.

 

The officer will probably be charged and a court will decide. The shot person could also face charges. His behavior and actions aren't excused by the actions of the policeman. Just as his actions don't excuse the policeman. 

3 against 1

And still they were not able to confine him

Tazers didn;t work

He may or may not have been armed with a knife

The police weren't even there for him

...and still the only BLACK person in this scenario gets shot!

7 times!

In the back!

...and still: the excuses for the cops keep coming, left and right!

Strange!

Just now, Pilotman said:

Thai Police, corrupt though they may be, would not be stupid enough to act this way. 

Agreed,

It's very rare for Thai police to draw their guns, even if faced with a deranged Thai waving a machete.

Just now, Saint Nick said:

...and still: the excuses for the cops keep coming, left and right!

Strange!

Not strange at all, racists always have excuses for killing black people.

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agreed,

It's very rare for Thai police to draw their guns, even if faced with a deranged Thai waving a machete.

Indeed.  They often seem to stand back and allow the situation to defuse itself, while containing it, which I understand is the UK Police Service approach to similar situations. Perhaps we have a TVF Member who is ex UK Police, who can add to the debate here. Our US friends do really need to wake up to the utter incompetence of their Nationwide Police Services. They are going to reap the backlash whirlwind that has started and will only get more intense. 

Just watched the video and really not surprised that this man was shot. It sucks that he was shot but given his actions and how police are trained it is not surprising at all that he was shot. Both the man and the police could have made several different decisions that would have produced a more acceptable outcome but they didn't. 

 

The police could have:

Tackled the man and physically subdued him.

Tasered the man. Not sure if Kenosha police have tasers though.

Used their nightsticks instead.

Kept him from approaching the car by blocking him and try reasoning with him.

 

The man could have:

Followed the commands from the police.

Not approached his car and reached inside.

Argued with the police without making any suspicious moves. 

 

In the end, whether the officer is charged or not will be up to what the Kenosha police department procedures are. As long as he followed proper procedure he can't be charged, well in today's environment he will be charged but then he will not be convicted. This is really the problem and the number one reason police are rarely convicted. We can sit around and Monday quarterback this all day long but in the end if the police officer followed proper procedure he will not be convicted and rightly so.

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I read reports in which it says he was waving a knife about prior to going to his vehicle. The police were ordering him to stop and tried to taser him ( the taser failed which apparently they do regularly). He was reaching in his vehicle when shot.

 

Police officers attending had been told there was a warrant for sexual assault and domestic violence outstanding and that he had previous firearms convictions including threatening people in a bar. He also had convictions for assaulting police.

 

The officers would have treated him as a dangerous person. He would have heightened that by not following their commands. They could be faced with him pulling a gun out from his vehicle.

 

However, that doesn't explain why an office felt the need to shoot him 7 times from very close range. 

 

This needs much more investigation but isn't just someone being innocent just because the color of their skin; or a police office r acting reasonably.  But the media hype to fuel the fires for their own agendas don't help.

The police would not have known anything about him or his priors, so its irrelevant.

 

What is relevant is that he was trying to do the right thing bteaking up two women arguing.

 

What is relevant is police immediately thought he was the problem.

 

That is institutional racism, black man, must be his fault.

On 8/25/2020 at 7:38 AM, BritManToo said:

What's their justification for shooting someone, who's unarmed, in the back more than once?

https://www.facebook.com/100015269400622/videos/946158902569748/

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/24/wisconsin-police-shooting-black-man-jacob-blake-national-guard-way-kenosha-7-shots-in-the-back/3430507001/

 

Lots of unanswered questions and missing details. Hopefully, an unbiased and complete investigation will now occur:

 

Quote

The man who claimed to have made the video, 22-year-old Raysean White, told the Associated Press he saw Blake scuffling with three officers and heard them yell, “Drop the knife! Drop the knife!” before the gunfire erupted. He said he didn’t see a knife in Blake’s hands.

 

Quote

 

Kenosha police have not released more information about the shooting, saying only that officers were sent to the apartment for a “domestic incident." Authorities have not said if Blake was believed to be involved in that situation.
 

Blake had an open warrant stemming from a domestic case in May, but police officials have not said if the officers were aware of the warrant when they responded to the call Sunday.

 

 

Quote

 

Attorney General Josh Kaul declined to provide further details about the shooting at a news conference Monday afternoon and did not answer questions about whether Blake had been armed during any point of the incident. He also did not say how many officers were involved in the shooting and did not name the officers.
 

Authorities said earlier in the day the officers had been placed on administrative leave.

 

 

It seems someone has now been killed in the riots...a shame as no one was even killed in the initial police encounter.

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/24/wisconsin-police-shooting-black-man-jacob-blake-national-guard-way-kenosha-7-shots-in-the-back/3430507001/

 

Lots of unanswered questions and missing details. Hopefully, an unbiased and complete investigation will now occur:

 

 

 

 

There is only one unanswered question, what competent police officer shoots a man in the back 7 times when he appears to be unarmed and when they had every opportunity to bring him down when he was away from the car.  I will tell you the answer, murdering cowards.  There is no other part of this debate that makes any rational sense. If they are not charged with attempted murder, then the anarchy that will surely follow  this latest example of US Police incompetence  and violence to the black community will be on their heads.  

3 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It seems someone has now been killed in the riots...a shame as no one was even killed in the initial police encounter.

That was inevitable and more will follow. 

3 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It seems someone has now been killed in the riots...a shame as no one was even killed in the initial police encounter.

Yes its a shame the police actions cause reactions.

4 hours ago, rvaviator said:

Well consider the training they get .. maybe this is 'as good as it gets' ?  Compare police training in US with police training in UK or in Scandinavia ...  https://www.wbtv.com/2020/06/13/some-us-police-train-just-few-weeks-some-countries-they-train-years/

 

One would have thought that since Policing in the US .. is so 'dangerous' they should have the best training ?

this is worth mentioning more then once, from the article

"One of the goals of the policing system in Finland is to instill public confidence in law enforcement, Rikander said, citing studies that show more than 90% of people trust police."

 

Scandinavians do have faith in police, but my american friends associate police with corruption

 

 

14 minutes ago, runamok27 said:

Just watched the video and really not surprised that this man was shot. It sucks that he was shot but given his actions and how police are trained it is not surprising at all that he was shot. Both the man and the police could have made several different decisions that would have produced a more acceptable outcome but they didn't. 

 

The police could have:

Tackled the man and physically subdued him.

Tasered the man. Not sure if Kenosha police have tasers though.

Used their nightsticks instead.

Kept him from approaching the car by blocking him and try reasoning with him.

 

The man could have:

Followed the commands from the police.

Not approached his car and reached inside.

Argued with the police without making any suspicious moves. 

 

In the end, whether the officer is charged or not will be up to what the Kenosha police department procedures are. As long as he followed proper procedure he can't be charged, well in today's environment he will be charged but then he will not be convicted. This is really the problem and the number one reason police are rarely convicted. We can sit around and Monday quarterback this all day long but in the end if the police officer followed proper procedure he will not be convicted and rightly so.

So are you saying that shooting someone who is unarmed  in the back may be an accepted  Police procedure, that they were just following?   Even the Military, who one always hopes are more competent than this crowd of police muppets,  don't have those Terms of Engagement in times of civil unrest. Having said that of course, the US has previous in this area, remember Kent University.    If so, that is even more ludicrous. They should be charged with attempted murder, no doubts. 

15 hours ago, Pilotman said:

There is only one unanswered question, what competent police officer shoots a man in the back 7 times when he appears to be unarmed and when they had every opportunity to bring him down when he was away from the car.

 

I wasn't excusing what appears to have occurred, based on everything known and shown thus far...

 

But there are questions that bear on the ability to mount a successful criminal prosecution of the officers, such as them shouting at the victim about having a knife, but the person who captured the video saying he didn't see Blake carrying a knife.

When police start acting properly the will gain respect. But it will take decades and they need to be trained and rambo wannabees tossed out.

 

Can start by putting police in areas where they know the locals, policing areas they grew up in. Thats a start.

30 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

There is only one unanswered question, what competent police officer shoots a man in the back 7 times when he appears to be unarmed and when they had every opportunity to bring him down when he was away from the car.  I will tell you the answer, murdering cowards.  There is no other part of this debate that makes any rational sense. If they are not charged with attempted murder, then the anarchy that will surely follow  this latest example of US Police incompetence  and violence to the black community will be on their heads.  

I agree that there is a possibility that police have acted less competently than would be desirable.

 

Nevertheless I disagree somewhat that if anarchy were to ensue because of violent protests that is solely because of this issue. Obviously the people who use violence to express their political aims have to bear responsibility for the destruction they cause.

9 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Obviously the people who use violence to express their political aims have to bear responsibility for the destruction they cause.

If you don't use violence nothing changes.

The more widespread and extreme the violence, the quicker the change.

Our whole civilisation is based on violence/threat of violence.

 

If the black people of America want change, they should attack corporate holdings.

Burn everything owned by companies listed on the stock market.

Hit the shareholders, their dividends, their pensions and things would soon change.

Don't attack your neighbourhood mom and pop stores, that just harms yourselves.

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by BritManToo

Just another day in "Merka". Kill 'em and blame it on "resisting arrest" or "I felt threatened"....or "he was reaching for a gun, which turned out to be his wallet".  Any excuse will do. Defund the police, prosecute them and throw them in prison.

45 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I agree that there is a possibility that police have acted less competently than would be desirable.

 

Nevertheless I disagree somewhat that if anarchy were to ensue because of violent protests that is solely because of this issue. Obviously the people who use violence to express their political aims have to bear responsibility for the destruction they cause.

Indeed they do, but if it was my community that was under attack by Police forces, I would be out on the streets too.  I would like to think that I would be peaceful and restrained in my actions, but when the Authorities act as they do, goodness knows how I would react in turn.  You reap what you sow in this life and the US have been sowing this seed for generations. It will come to haunt them, and perhaps that is what is needed to affect real change. 

43 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you don't use violence nothing changes.

The more widespread and extreme the violence, the quicker the change.

Our whole civilisation is based on violence/threat of violence.

 

If the black people of America want change, they should attack corporate holdings.

Burn everything owned by companies listed on the stock market.

Hit the shareholders, their dividends, their pensions and things would soon change.

Don't attack your neighbourhood mom and pop stores, that just harms yourselves.

I like and agree with your sentiments here. It seems that the US white, middle class communities are too narrow minded and intransigent to make real change happen, unless by violent reaction to murders like this one by the black communities.  It has been going on for generations and real change can only come about now through violent reaction by the discriminated communities.  The US has brought this on itself.  I said at the beginning of this thread, that there is a sickness, a deadly virus, in the US, and its not Covid. 

One more comment.  On TVF, we often see negative reactions and criticism of the Thais, their police, their government and their laws.  Well, next time someone feels like doing that, perhaps they should consider what is happening here, what we have here, how normally peaceful it is, than in the US.  Thank goodness we live here, or most of us do. I would never consider living in the US, despite it being a beautiful country with very many fine people.  It has a cancer than needs to be removed. 

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by Pilotman

I'm familiar with Kenosha.  What a fvckin' shame.  Nice old town.  Should have sent in the national guard the moment the guy got shot to protect innocent people's livelihoods.  Not hard to predict what's going to happen.  I could imagine some people forced out of work due to Covid, then finally get back to work only to lose it once again because of these "social justice warriors."  This is not the method to bring about change.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Tagged said:

Maybe you shold educate yourselves before you assume anything you do not know anything about. 

 

I assume you are a small arms expert to call me out on what I know.