Why the discrimination against retirees in Thailand?

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Lucky guy's you all of you who got this " until the 26th September 2021 like the rest of us ????" as I had to pay  1900 baht for it …. you got it for free.... yeah that is real discrimination … ???? 555

Not all that lucky, many of us paid $200 for a multi-entry VISA we can't use.

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

What part of the word "retired" does the Thai government not understand? We have settled here to live.  We have adopted this place as our new (and last) home. 

"What part of the word "retired" does the Thai government not understand?"

Strange question.  What part of a Non-Immigrant O visa do you not understand? 

 

The "retirement visa" is not a settlement visa for life, whether or not you have decided to claim that you have settled here without authority.  The first time that you got your visa did it not state the equivalent of you have permission to stay for 12 months?   Is that hard to understand? 

 

The fact that you may have "adopted this place as our new (and last) home" is irrelevant, the visa (and subsequent extensions) that you applied for never gave you that option.  It is you who is misunderstanding what kind of visa you have.

 

If you like the considerations that have been granted to categories other than the one that you voluntarily chose then all you have to do is move into that category!

[Greenside]

Does anyone know the (realistic) figures for the number of long term retiree expats here in Thailand?

[gearbox]

40 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Yes. It is embarrassing that people are so ignorant that they "retire here" expecting no discrimination.  Where did they get the idea that there was no discrimination here?  Is it normal delusion, chemically assisted or age related disease/deterioration ?  

 

 

It is all due to unrealistic expectations. The "retirees" in Thailand are just long term tourists, the most common visas are only 1 year long, and even the people with longer visas can't enter now. You don't usually  "retire" somewhere for one year, you retire until the end of your days.

So if the "retiree" realises he or she is just a longer term tourist, the expectations can be set right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[86Tiger]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

 

".....BOI work permit holders do not have to pay the government between 500,000 and 2,000,000 baht for a visa. Notice the difference?......." A difference does not make something unachievable.  And that work permit holder is most likely going to pay +500k in tax over life of his stay.

 

"......No, you can't. All existing multiple re-entry permits are not honored at this time. I thought you were up to speed...."  Well, now you are getting the "equality" you wish even Thai nationals don't have freedom to come and go, must apply for re-entry through repatriation flights.

Cry me a river.

[JWRC]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

I don't agree. Retirees bring in a lot of money and it usually gets spent, whereas foreign workers are younger and more likely to save their money. Retirees come in and buy real estate for cash. Foreign workers on salaries would not be buying real estate for cash.

 

Sure, there are expats doing it tough, but there are a lot of foreign workers making peanuts.

Interesting, as Foreigners cannot buy Real Estate except in a very few instances. Perhaps what you needed to say was a number of foreigners come in and part with their money to Thai women.

[david555]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not all that lucky, many of us paid $200 for a multi-entry VISA we can't use.

Nah , same for me , couldn't fly out-in again so stayed Th., re entry paid for nothing , as same I have to do now one more re entry …, as i can't take the risk of an possible urgent need to fly home country...…..

 

As example Euro millions and my Lotto from home country does not pay straight to bank higher than 25000 €  ….. must be in person ….???????????? so I need anyway to fly out 

Edited September 1, 2020 by david555

[2 is 1]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

As example Euro millions and my Lotto from home country does not pay to straight bank higher than 25000 €  ….. must be in person ….????????????

I can get 90 million € straight in count! But it's only a dream lol

Edited September 1, 2020 by 2 is 1

[david555]

2 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

I can get 90 million € straight in count! But it's only a dream lol

With Euromillions or local Lotto ? and normally only 3 month's to come claim it with Home country Lotto …… please tell me the trick (555)…. always interested to know ….. as nightmare exist  so the good dreams might too ….. as even some say " my GF is different "  so miracles seems to happen some times ????

Edited September 1, 2020 by david555

[Pumpuynarak]

2 hours ago, Trujillo said:

What part of the word "retired" does the Thai government not understand? We have settled here to live.

Yes i agree, but in Thailand's thinking its only for 1 year at a time ????

 

Just treat Thailand with the contempt it deserves, works for me. Having said all that i'm married to a Thai national but use a retirement extension because its easier to obtain at Immigration than a marriage extension.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Nobody wants retirees, not even our own country. Just want us to die to save them the pensions.

The conservatives like them because of their votes.

[david555]

11 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Yes i agree, but in Thailand's thinking its only for 1 year at a time ????

 

Just treat Thailand with the contempt it deserves, works for me. Having said all that i'm married to a Thai national but use a retirement extension because its easier to obtain at Immigration than a marriage extension.

"married to a Thai national but use a retirement extension because its easier to obtain at Immigration than a marriage extension."

 

And above all you can  keep full control about your stay …. avoiding eventual marriage blackmail ???? (and not forgetting the 800K excuse money can not be demanded for whatever ….by  ( ….… ) excellent practical excuse ????

Very wise advise 

Edited September 1, 2020 by david555

[stephenterry]

I would consider the unfairness of life and Thailand as being comparable to Fulham playing Arsenal on the 16th of this month. Sure I'm retired and live here on an annual renewal visa which is about as much as I could expect Thai Immigration to grant me. 

 

Don't let it stress you out, Tru - once you accept your mortality (the bigger picture), eating and sleeping well, and having good friends and relatives makes your life a whole lot happier.  

[puck2]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's be realistic: What do retirees contribute to Thailand? A little money, probably a lot less than tourists.

And at the same time some retirees create headache and cost for Thailand like unpaid medical bills.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that you and many others like to live her. But look at it from Thailand's point of view.

And Thailand is not unique in that way. Many (all?) countries are more interested in experts for their expertise and tourists for their money.

A 2-4 week tourist "contributes" more money than a retiree ????

 

Where did you read this fairy tale?

Edited September 1, 2020 by puck2

[Mike Teavee]

58 minutes ago, david555 said:

I just did the normally things needed to do as always before C19 ….., including my normal 90 day rapports , I was not needed to be under any amnesty or whatever named ….. 

 

Lucky guy's you all of you who got this " until the 26th September 2021 like the rest of us ????" as I had to pay  1900 baht for it …. you got it for free.... yeah that is real discrimination … ???? 555

No, I did my extension the normal way on August 19th for a permission to stay due to expire on 19th September but they extended mine (and others have reported the same) to 26th September 2021.

 

The usual 1,900 extension fee applies... Just curious (but not surprising) that Jomtien isn't doing the same as CW & what the infographic on the official Immigration website says... "All types of Visa Extension will be effective from 27th September 2020"  

 

Go back to complain & get your free extra 4 days ???? 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Mike Teavee

[david555]

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

No, I did my extension the normal way on August 19th for a permission to stay due to expire on 19th September but they extended mine (and others have reported the same) to 26th September 2021 (Immigration said that people who extended at this time would have their extension started from 27th September) 

 

Usual 1,900 extension fee applies... Just curious (but not surprising) that Jomtien isn't doing the same as CW & what the infographic on the official Immigration website says... 

 

The wording long term visa holders should had a better understanding and just naming the example Ret. Ext.  as the long stay naming was always used for the non o-a ones who took that easy (before so...) visa in home country  , before the need of insurance as now needed , and was good for 2 years use if going border hop before visa expiring to become a second year , and the advantage the  money could be on home country bank and no seasoning , became a nightmare long stay visa now  

 

That line was a missing in translation who fooled many understanding it as in your way .

 

and all could  do if wished their normal 90 day rapports as I did 

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

The wording long term visa holders should had a better understanding and just naming the example Ret. Ext.  as the long stay naming was always used for the non o-a ones who took that easy (before so...) visa in home country  , before the need of insurance as now needed , and was good for 2 years use if going border hop before visa expiring to become a second year , and the advantage the  money could be on home country bank and no seasoning , became a nightmare long stay visa now  

 

That line was a missing in translation who fooled many understanding it as in your way .

 

and all could  do if wished their normal 90 day rapports as I did 

 

No, I was a long term visa holder (I had a 1 year Non-O ME for > 50s) but the wording in the "Remark" applies to all Visas not just the ones described in option 2. 

 

E.g. If you could get a medical extension now it should start from 27th September... Same with a 60 day extension to visit family or a 30 day extension supported by a letter from your embassy. 

 

The thing that worries me is so many extensions will now become due on 27th September that for years to come Immigration will be especially busy around this time of year... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trujillo]

"What is the sane reasoning behind someone first asking permission to live somewhere, then, when that permission is granted, demanding that the local laws be changed to suit them!?!

"I'm here, so now change your laws to make me happy."  How bloody selfish!"

 

What law are you referring to being changed? I don't recall there being any law regarding who can re-enter Thailand during the covid period. 

 

I posted about the temporary restrictions on who can re-enter and also the large disparity between BOI work permit visa extensions and those of a retired person (four times as long for the worker). No one said anything about changing laws, at least not me.

 

I don't think any sane person could look at the short-list of those foreigners qualified to re-enter Thailand currently and not say, "Why not the retired people?" 

What reason is there to exclude this class of people? Is there another class of long-stay foreigners that are being denied re-entry? 

 

GEARBOX: "However the current situation is a bit unfair, as the issuance of a retirement visa which is paid should be regarded as a contract and the Thais should fulfill their obligations. What about the O-A visa holders who paid for expensive Thai health insurance but now are stuck outside and can't use it?"

 

Very good points. I paid 3,800 baht for my multiple re-entry permit, as I recall. That "contract" was made in good faith, and yes, now that there are covid restrictions I can understand some suspensions, but only if these suspensions apply equally. 

Will the Thais reimburse those of us with re-entry permits? Roll them over for gratis next extension? Those are rhetorical questions, aren't they?

 

 

[david555]

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

No, I was a long term visa holder (I had a 1 year Non-O ME for > 50s) but the wording in the "Remark" applies to all Visas not just the ones described in option 2. 

 

E.g. If you could get a medical extension now it should start from 27th September... Same with a 60 day extension to visit family or a 30 day extension supported by a letter from your embassy. 

 

The thing that worries me is so many extensions will now become due on 27th September that for years to come Immigration will be especially busy around this time of year... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i am not going in discussion about visas , but I know the foreign Thai embassy's used to name the non o-a  "long stay visa" …. while here in Thailand mine always was called a ret. extension , and sure so the 800K one

 

Also there was more than ones mentioned that this graphic was not complete good translation or understanding , as those not under amnesty could do normal as usual , but some took advantage to postpone the 90 day rapport to just take advantage for easiness .

 

[OneMoreFarang]

27 minutes ago, puck2 said:

A 2-4 week tourist "contributes" more money than a retiree ????

 

Where did you read this fairy tale?

In that 2-4 weeks most tourists will most certainly spend a lot more money than retirees in the same time frame.

And apart from Covid times there are a lot of tourist who spend all together a lot of money.

This tread is not about retirees spending no money at all, sure they spend money. But looking at the big picture I am pretty sure the money from all those retirees combined is far away from all those tourist combined.

And lots of old retirees have lots of health problems. Lots of tourist don't come to Thailand if they are sick. They stay at home. They only come to Thailand to spend lots of money.

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

i am not going in discussion about visas , but I know the foreign Thai embassy's used to name the non o-a  "long stay visa" …. while here in Thailand mine always was called a ret. extension , and sure so the 800K one

 

Also there was more than ones mentioned that this graphic was not complete good translation or understanding , as those not under amnesty could do normal as usual , but some took advantage to postpone the 90 day rapport to just take advantage for easiness .

 

An extension to a Non OA (or any other) visa is just that... an extension (technically it's "An Extension to Your Permission to Stay")  

 

You have exactly the same extension as I have (an extension to a Non-O on the basis of being over 50 & having 800K in the bank) but CW is extending these to 26th September 2021 (For Non-O & Non-OA extensions) & Jomtien isn't (at least in your case). 

 

[Trujillo]

"And lots of old retirees have lots of health problems."

 

And do you think the hospitals treat them for free? 

[Yinn]

2 hours ago, Trujillo said:

I am not arguing that there is anything strange about people being allowed in for their work. Or their families, although are you not aware that there are many relationships here that are solid, long-term and are NOT legally married? What about people retired here who have houses, contribute to the wealth of the nation and more importantly in this example, have Thai citizens who not only care for them but for whom the foreigner is supporting (and their relatives, etc.)? Does this not count for something? 

Should someone who came here to study the Thai language before the covid lockdowns be afforded more rights than a person who has lived and contributed here for 15 years? 

15 years already. What the problem. 

Visit imigration, sign a document = you stay.

 

3 hours ago, Trujillo said:

I would really love to see someone in the media or from an embassy or consulate publicly confront government officials with this issue.

15 years helping Thailand, and all the people. Ask your thai freinds do it. Why not?

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"And lots of old retirees have lots of health problems."

 

And do you think the hospitals treat them for free? 

That depends.

If an old guy walks into a hospital and talks to the doctor then they will present him an invoice. And if the treatment is expensive then the hospital will likely inform him first and ask him if he has the money.

But if an old guy is unconsciously delivered to a hospital and he needs an emergency operation then the hospital won't be able to ask him but it seems normally they still treat him and expect to get paid. Sometime they get paid, and sometimes then the GoFundMe pages come up... 

[onebir]

2 hours ago, Henryford said:

Nobody wants retirees, not even our own country. Just want us to die to save them the pensions.

Major difference: Thailand isn't paying the pensions of foreign retirees...

[david555]

 baht 

27 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

An extension to a Non OA (or any other) visa is just that... an extension (technically it's "An Extension to Your Permission to Stay")  

 

You have exactly the same extension as I have (an extension to a Non-O on the basis of being over 50 & having 800K in the bank) but CW is extending these to 26th September 2021 (For Non-O & Non-OA extensions) & Jomtien isn't (at least in your case). 

 

Yeah if we go compare about different immigrations … we wont solve anything ,  different behavior for general rules …. that is the T.I.T. problem , as Phuket have even for other things different behaviours ….and so do others offices ...

 

As Ubon Joe also made clear that those having running extensions as us, can do "normally " as always ….but yes as a local I.O. office does not follow ….. nothing can be done …..

 

I am no exception as others have extended also in Jomtien …., and ….I am not using a  agent , just my documents , and the 1900 baht  fee

 

I just followed my normal extension  routine , I am curious how many "dead body's go fall out the closet " coming time ...555 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by david555

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

What is the sane reasoning behind someone first asking permission to live somewhere, then, when that permission is granted, demanding that the local laws be changed to suit them!?!

"I'm here, so now change your laws to make me happy."  How bloody selfish!

Yes selfish but remember it is perfectly within his rights to wallow in self pity because he has been "discriminated" against.

[holy cow cm]

I have to agree some what with Trujillo. There should be better a better plan of giving retiree longer stay not based on the yearly extension shuffle as they say jump, and you say How High Sir/Mam? Like a long 10 year visa and only having the requirement to go check in yearly to say hello. And a BIG whatever on this exorbitant rake your money elite visa. I could do it but why on earth would I want to give that kind of money to them for something not permanent. Correct, I wouldn't, but I would gladly pay $10,000 - $15,000 for a permanent residency in a heart beep. I am not on a retirement, but I do think retiree and family people should be given a better shake than what we are all given if we can qualify, and if we are here now, the bulk of us do qualify legitimately. If there is a concern about old folk becoming a burden to the state, then why don't they just make us all pay a yearly premium say $2000 or so a year that covers everything on ground level medical care even with existing conditions. Certainly would be a money maker and could help fund their health care system as well. 

 

Not whining, but Trujillo has a very sincere valid point and gripe. 

 

 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

I don't think any sane person could look at the short-list of those foreigners qualified to re-enter Thailand currently and not say, "Why not the retired people?" 

What reason is there to exclude this class of people? Is there another class of long-stay foreigners that are being denied re-entry? 

There are many non-immigrant visa/extension holders who are currently not allowed to enter, it's not limited to retirees.

Just to list a few:

People who own a business, or have invested money into Thailand, and who get a non-B visa, but no work permit

Students at non-formal schools

Volunteers

Monks

...

Should retirees be prioritized over these groups?

 

Obviously the capacity at ASQ facilities is limited, and they decided that the people who are currently allowed into Thailand are more important than retirees.

What is the MFA supposed to do, remove spouses from the list to free up capacity and add retirees instead?

 

[Mattd]

4 hours ago, Trujillo said:

A foreigner friend of mine (married to a Thai) just renewed his work permit and visa. They automatically gave him a FOUR YEAR VISA.

 

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

As for your envy that a person with a WP can get a 4 year visa. So can you!

The person that gets a 4 year visa is employed by a Thai company or working under the rules of BOI on contract for a minimum of 4 years. They also have a salary that reaches the minimum limit allowed to work in Thailand depending on which work and country they are connected to.

BOI extension of stay is maximum 2 years, there is no 4 year option available.

https://osos.boi.go.th/One-Stop/faq-group/7/Work-Permit-for-Foreign-Expat/

 

I have had several EOS & WP under BOI & IEAT, all were two years validity, literally just renewed one and it is valid up to 31st August 2022.