Why the discrimination against retirees in Thailand?

[Puchaiyank]

You, as a farang retiree, are totally dependent upon Thai "good will"...good luck with that!

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

 

BOI extension of stay is maximum 2 years, there is no 4 year option available.

https://osos.boi.go.th/One-Stop/faq-group/7/Work-Permit-for-Foreign-Expat/

 

I have had several EOS & WP under BOI & IEAT, all were two years validity, literally just renewed one and it is valid up to 31st August 2022.

Ok, was not sure of that one. As you say, you have experience. I was also surprised of a 4 year visa at all, but maybe with Non-B if you have a contract for 4 years.

However, it was not really about that. It was more about that the OP can get a 5 or 10 year visa as a retired person too. ???? 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

 

BOI extension of stay is maximum 2 years, there is no 4 year option available.

https://osos.boi.go.th/One-Stop/faq-group/7/Work-Permit-for-Foreign-Expat/

 

I have had several EOS & WP under BOI & IEAT, all were two years validity, literally just renewed one and it is valid up to 31st August 2022.

Maybe it was the 4 year SMART Visa

Smart Visa is a new type of visa specially designed to attract highly skilled manpower, investors, executives and startups entrepreneurs wishing to work or invest in the following targeted industries in the Kingdom of Thailand. Smart Visa holders will be granted maximum 4-year permission to stay, exemption from the work permit requirement and entitled to additional privileges.

 

 https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/

 

[Why Me]

10 hours ago, Trujillo said:

A tourist contributes more than a retiree? Are you joking? 

Of course, tourists (in normal times) are more numerous than retirees, sure. But individually, I outpace any tourist by my contributions over time by orders of magnitude. 

Wrong argument. I'll give an example: suppose an individual long stay retiree says I've been here 30 years and my receipts indicate over that time I have spent $30,000, which is much more than any single tourist, the Thai Govt. isn't going to be impressed. Kind of like comparing one person's annual salary with another's monthly.

 

What counts is the per capita per day expenditure. Which in the case of tourists if I remember correctly averages a few 100 $s per day, far more than the typical retiree. And if you multiply that by the number of tourists on the ground each day (in normal times), our contribution as retirees in comparison is a decimal point.

 

Still I find Thai visa policies very kind. All I need is a certain, not exorbitant, amount in the bank to prove I can make ends meet, a few hours out of a year to pop into the IO  for renewal and 5 mins. every 90 days to do an online report. That's it and I can stay here on retirement forever.

 

And if someone finds even that onerous and wants to be pampered like a high-rolling tourist, heck, get a million b. Elite and you'll be treated like a king the next 20 years.

 

Thailand's pretty exceptional that way. Just ask a Thai guy to go to the US embassy and say, I've got a proven monthly income of $3000 which is enough to live off in any small US town, so give me a year's visa to test the waters. He'll be laughed out. The US doesn't even have a retirement visa category. I don't know about the EU.

 

International students? Going by the figures at the uni where I taught occasionally, they pay huge fees and keep particularly the private schools afloat. Ditto medical visitors.

 

Pandemic repatriation flights? Totally makes sense Thais and those with Thai families get first dibs at the limited slots.

 

Have to mention one particular way to a retirement visa blows my mind. Come in as a tourist, extend for 90 days and then a 1-year non-imm. Name another desirable non-shothole country where you can go as a tourist and never leave.

 

Nah, I am going to risk being crucified and say Thai Immigration has a heart of gold.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Why Me

[checkered flag]

11 hours ago, Why Me said:

Wrong argument. I'll give an example: suppose an individual long stay retiree says I've been here 30 years and my receipts indicate over that time I have spent $30,000, which is much more than any single tourist, the Thai Govt. isn't going to be impressed. Kind of like comparing one person's annual salary with another's monthly.

 

What counts is the per capita per day expenditure. Which in the case of tourists if I remember correctly averages a few 100 $s per day, far more than the typical retiree. And if you multiply that by the number of tourists on the ground each day (in normal times), our contribution as retirees in comparison is a decimal point.

 

Still I find Thai visa policies very kind. All I need is a certain, not exorbitant, amount in the bank to prove I can make ends meet, a few hours out of a year to pop into the IO  for renewal and 5 mins. every 90 days to do an online report. That's it and I can stay here on retirement forever.

 

And if someone finds even that onerous and wants to be pampered like a high-rolling tourist, heck, get a million b. Elite and you'll be treated like a king the next 20 years.

 

Thailand's pretty exceptional that way. Just ask a Thai guy to go to the US embassy and say, I've got a proven monthly income of $3000 which is enough to live off in any small US town, so give me a year's visa to test the waters. He'll be laughed out. The US doesn't even have a retirement visa category. I don't know about the EU.

 

International students? Going by the figures at the uni where I taught occasionally, they pay huge fees and keep particularly the private schools afloat. Ditto medical visitors.

 

Pandemic repatriation flights? Totally makes sense Thais and those with Thai families get first dibs at the limited slots.

 

Have to mention one particular way to a retirement visa blows my mind. Come in as a tourist, extend for 90 days and then a 1-year non-imm. Name another desirable non-shothole country where you can go as a tourist and never leave.

 

Nah, I am going to risk being crucified and say Thai Immigration has a heart of gold.

I think tourist are preferred because they stay in hotels, eat in restaurants and by Thai made things. Whereas long termers either buy or rent a place to stay and might cook for themselves (at least some of the time) they also don't buy a lot of Thai products (handicrafts etc). In short tourist bring in more money per day to the economy. 

That said, I've never felt discrimination in Thailand. The people are quite friendly and open. I met a very nice couple yesterday in Macro. It ended up that he's a policeman at another amphur an asked my wife and I to visit. Although I don't have a lot of interactions with government  officials, I'd say 98% go out of their way to be helpful and the other 2% are probably just having a bad day. Better than California for sure.

I do speak Thai so that could make a difference.

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

On 9/1/2020 at 10:54 AM, Trujillo said:

We have adopted this place as our new (and last) home.

But the Thai government has not adopted you. Get used to it because nothing will change.

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

On 9/1/2020 at 12:02 PM, Keyser Soze666 said:

Isn't it obvious. He 'works' here, he isn't a bum wandering around looking lost in the world dressed in flip flops and a vest looking for cheap beer. The Thai gov don't care about your 20k a month, and rightly so.

Important Question -- As a bum (etc, etc) I would like to know where to obtain cheap beer.

 

[Brightly]

As other posters have stated, it all comes down to $$$.

 

Retirees primarily live here on the cheap (or cheep-ish), and many remain uninsured, and end up dying on Thailand’s dime.

 

What country wants that when tourism is such a main draw?

 

I love my life here, and I don’t feel any day-to-day discrimination whatsoever.

 

HOWEVER, I hold no illusions that that this ever be “home.”  We’re all guests of the Kingdom, and things could shift in a minute.  That’s why I won’t buy property or invest in a fancy, multi-year visa here.

 

There are no guarantees, but it sure beats living in Trumpland, in my opinion(!)

Edited September 4, 2020 by Brightly

[izod10]

On 9/1/2020 at 7:02 AM, gearbox said:

It is all due to unrealistic expectations. The "retirees" in Thailand are just long term tourists, the most common visas are only 1 year long, and even the people with longer visas can't enter now. You don't usually  "retire" somewhere for one year, you retire until the end of your days.

So if the "retiree" realises he or she is just a longer term tourist, the expectations can be set right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly,just one year,says so on passport stamp.See all those expat homes now up for sale,panic selling Id say,realisation sets in..not a hope in hell of getting shut either

[smutcakes]

On 9/1/2020 at 11:26 AM, Trujillo said:

 

"Not being able to return once you leave the country could happen just about anywhere at the moment."

 

Granted, but do you think it's fair for retirees to be excluded and students not? 

 

And it's not about being a millionaire. And I am not convinced that, for instance, an "online teacher" or a "web designer" with a work permit contributes much to society, but you are free to educate me. 

 

The job my friend has is a real job with an international company that will not cease. But yes, I assume that if you are with "Happy Giraffe" English school on a work permit and they fold, you will too. 

 

A tourist contributes more than a retiree? Are you joking? 

Of course, tourists (in normal times) are more numerous than retirees, sure. But individually, I outpace any tourist by my contributions over time by orders of magnitude. 

And by the way, if Thailand accepts retirees into their national community, one would argue that it's done with open arms; otherwise, why allow anyone to live here? I'm not asking for special treatment above and beyond other groups, just some reasonableness compared to the treatment of others. 

I have worked here for 15 years for International companies always using well known lawyers and accountants for company and visa matters.

 

I have never known of or heard of anyone getting a 4 year work visa. Either your friend is a very specialist position perhaps linked to Govt work or perhaps there is a misunderstanding?

 

Just to add as someone mentioned if your friend lost his job or changed job he would lose his/her visa inmediately.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by smutcakes

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

I have worked here for 15 years for International companies always using well known lawyers and accountants for company and visa matters.

 

I have never known of or heard of anyone getting a 4 year work visa. Either your friend is a very specialist position perhaps linked to Govt work or perhaps there is a misunderstanding?

 

Just to add as someone mentioned if your friend lost his job or changed job he would lose his/her visa inmediately.

 

 

It's a relatively new thing (launched 1st Feb 2018) & it's not automatically 4 years (friend of mine got a 3 year visa last year as he's a director at a logistics company)...

 

https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/

 

Smart Visa is a new type of visa specially designed to attract highly skilled manpower, investors, executives and startups entrepreneurs wishing to work or invest in the following targeted industries in the Kingdom of Thailand. Smart Visa holders will be granted maximum 4-year permission to stay, exemption from the work permit requirement and entitled to additional privileges.

 

More Info:https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/pages/about.html

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Mike Teavee