Non-O Visa then retirement.

[ayahuasca]

 

 

Brief: my father, age 96, is retired here on Samui. I had been using a METV’s-- the current one expired in June 2020. I have the seasoned, required funds in a Thai bank, and I am over 50. It has been suggested to me recently, by local farangs, that Samui immigration would give me an Non-O. But if I visit Samui immigration, I want to be completely prepared —and yes I just obtained the bank letter and copies of statements yesterday and have the app form, photos, passport copies & housing registration. 

 

(We’re Americans on U.S. passports. Father is a retired SES US Navy scientist). Any comments, suggestions, links?  

 

Incidentally, the two reasons for my staying longer are A. my father needs the guidance/help and B. waiting until they get a decent vaccine (in the U.S.).   Thanks much.

[BritTim]

Immigration will not be interested in your father. It will all depend on whether they will allow you to apply for the Non O visa while on the "amnesty extension". You need proof that the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account in your name came from abroad.

 

Apply immediately! The last date for applications may be September 4th.

 

If they refuse to accept the application, you will need to rapidly find a reliable agent who can break through their obstructionism. The total cost for 15 months will probably be in the region of 25,000-30,000 baht.

[scubascuba3]

Sounds like you are well prepared, assuming you have proof the 800k is from abroad. Go to immigration and if they block it and don't offer an alternative find an agent who will make the problem go away

[ubonjoe]

I suspect they are saying you do not have a legit permit to stay under the amnesty. You can get a 30 day extension or a stamp stating your stay is legit until the 26th with a letter from the embassy.

You can request the letter by completing this form and they will email it to you in a short period of time (print letter in color).

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=dFDPZv5a0UimkaErISH0S3NVAXsxQaZEpst3lGhanZ5UMTZNNE5TUDM3SEhHOFhHV0MzOEk5UVlaWS4u

This is the list of requirements to apply for the non-o visa your need. https://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/08-edit_NON-O.pdf

[Brayka]

In Prachuap you need a made by hand situation where you live. And the letter from the bank is only 24 h valuable. Copy of every page of your (updated) bank book also all pages from your passport.  
good luck!

[ayahuasca]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I suspect they are saying you do not have a legit permit to stay under the amnesty. You can get a 30 day extension or a stamp stating your stay is legit until the 26th with a letter from the embassy.

You can request the letter by completing this form and they will email it to you in a short period of time (print letter in color).

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=dFDPZv5a0UimkaErISH0S3NVAXsxQaZEpst3lGhanZ5UMTZNNE5TUDM3SEhHOFhHV0MzOEk5UVlaWS4u

This is the list of requirements to apply for the non-o visa your need. https://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/08-edit_NON-O.pdf

Thank you sir. Note: I have not yet requested the non-o. I am planning to visit the immi today/tomorrow, and that US embassy letter was received within an hour, and should be helpful. One last question: on the TM86 as for "reasons" for the non-o, shall I simply write "retirement"? 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, ayahuasca said:

Thank you sir. Note: I have not yet requested the non-o. I am planning to visit the immi today/tomorrow, and that US embassy letter was received within an hour, and should be helpful. One last question: on the TM86 as for "reasons" for the non-o, shall I simply write "retirement"? 

Most important: do not accept the 30 days with embassy letter extension except as an absolute last resort. Do not even show them the letter. Such an extension could give you a permission to stay status that precludes application for the visa.

[Phillip9]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You can get a 30 day extension or a stamp stating your stay is legit until the 26th with a letter from the embassy.

I don't think you need an embassy letter to get the stamp legitimizing your stay until the 26th.  I think the letters are just for those wanting a special 30 day extension beyond the 26th.  

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Phillip9

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, ayahuasca said:

One last question: on the TM86 as for "reasons" for the non-o, shall I simply write "retirement"? 

Yes

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

Most important: do not accept the 30 days with embassy letter extension except as an absolute last resort. Do not even show them the letter. Such an extension could give you a permission to stay status that precludes application for the visa.

You are absolutely correct, and I am afraid there will be much collateral damage from people applying for this Embassy letter supported special 30-day extension thinking that it will allow them to subsequently apply for a 1-year extension of stay.

That Embassy letter supported special 30-day extension ONLY provides you with a temporary permission to stay because you are 'not able to leave the country'.  It is not meant to be used as a spring-board for a further extension of stay.

Unless your local IO solemnly confirms that you can use it as an intermediate step for your 1-year extension of stay application, you should definitely refrain from showing that Embassy letter and risk finding yourself in the Exit waiting-room.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

That Embassy letter supported special 30-day extension ONLY provides you with a temporary permission to stay because you are 'not able to leave the country'

That is not exactly correct. It is issued under clause 2.28 of the police order at the request of the embassy. There is nothing that states is only issued due to not being able to leave the country. It is basically issued due to a person not qualifying for any other extension.

Others have used one and applied for a non immigrant visa before. I am aware of a case where it was done to get a non-ed visa and the person was told to get a letter from his embassy so he could do the application.

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not exactly correct. It is issued under clause 2.28 of the police order at the request of the embassy. There is nothing that states is only issued due to not being able to leave the country. It is basically issued due to a person not qualifying for any other extension.

Others have used one and applied for a non immigrant visa before. I am aware of a case where it was done to get a non-ed visa and the person was told to get a letter from his embassy so he could do the application.

Thanks, and that's good to know!

But there has also been a case (in Hat Yai if I recall well) where the IO made it clear that the 'special' extension provided from the Embassy issued letter would block the applicant from applying for any other extensions of stay.

It would be once again a case-by-case situation depending on the interpretation of the IO where you are applying.

So before using that Embassy letter, it would be wise to enquire at your local IO whether that special extension of stay (based on the Embassy letter) would allow the applicant to subsequently apply for a further extension of stay. 

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

But there has also been a case (in Hat Yai if I recall well) where the IO made it clear that the 'special' extension provided from the Embassy issued letter would block the applicant from applying for any other extensions of stay.

I think we were discussing issuance of a non immigrant visa not a extension.

What a immigration officer states is not always a fact. 

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think we were discussing issuance of a non immigrant visa not a extension.

What a immigration officer states is not always a fact. 

Yes, those with more Thai Immigration experience are well aware that statements made by an Immigration officer aren't always correct.

But surely first-time applicants relying on an office to handle their application will often be intimidated by the officer not accepting their application.

And I am not very confident that officers would always accept your application for a Non Immigration Visa or an extension of stay, after having applied earlier for the special extension of stay based on the Embassy letter.  Especially since the standard US Embassy letter mentions 'the global transportation restrictions caused by the pandemic outbreak of covid-19'  thus implying that it is because of not being able to return to the US that the request is made.

 

Hence the need to enquire at your local IO before using that Embassy issued letter to apply for the special extension, to ensure that it will not block any further applications for a Non Immigration Visa or an extension of stay.

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hence the need to enquire at your local IO before using that Embassy issued letter to apply for the special extension, to ensure that it will not block any further applications for a Non Immigration Visa or an extension of stay.

I would also add to that my belief that you should only rely on the assurances of the immigration official if a normal extension proves impossible. While usually what the official tells you about your future options will prove correct, it is you (and not the official) who will bear the consequences if the information you have been given is incorrect.

[zzzzz]

On 9/2/2020 at 3:25 AM, BritTim said:

Immigration will not be interested in your father. It will all depend on whether they will allow you to apply for the Non O visa while on the "amnesty extension". You need proof that the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account in your name came from abroad.

 

Apply immediately! The last date for applications may be September 4th.

 

If they refuse to accept the application, you will need to rapidly find a reliable agent who can break through their obstructionism. The total cost for 15 months will probably be in the region of 25,000-30,000 baht.

fyi; agents charge starting at 18,000 baht to convert a visa exempt or tourist visa to a 90 day non O in country
than another 14,000++ to get a 1 year extension.

 

So if you have the bucks, use an agent for your 90 day non 0, than do the rest on your own.

 

[Peter Denis]

20 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

fyi; agents charge starting at 18,000 baht to convert a visa exempt or tourist visa to a 90 day non O in country
than another 14,000++ to get a 1 year extension.

 

So if you have the bucks, use an agent for your 90 day non 0, than do the rest on your own.

The problem might be that the Agent filed your 90-day Non Imm O Visa application at a friendly up-country IO where the Agents has 'connections'.  And then you would need to do the 1-year extension of stay application at that same IO that handled your Visa application (that's why it is often a 'package deal' for both 3 month Visa and 1 year extension).

Once you have the 1-year permission to stay stamp in your passport, you also need to do your 90-day reports at the IO where you are officially residing (once again, often part of the 'package deal').

When wanting to 'break free' from the Agent, you would need to administratively relocate to the actual place where you are living, otherwise you are stuck with your up-country official IO where the Agent filed your application.

Note: At least that's how I understand the process, but I stand to be corrected...

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, zzzzz said:

fyi; agents charge starting at 18,000 baht to convert a visa exempt or tourist visa to a 90 day non O in country
than another 14,000++ to get a 1 year extension.

 

So if you have the bucks, use an agent for your 90 day non 0, than do the rest on your own.

 

your prices are off or at least a rip off based on my experience, people should be looking for 21,000 baht for 90 day non imm O + 12 months retirement extension, don't pay more. Re-entry permit 1,000 baht, multi entry 4,000 baht, don't get ripped off

[ayahuasca]

Well, there was an unusual experience at Samui immigration today (3 Sept). They inspected my documents, and one immi agents said “no cannot”, then I produced the US embassy letter, but then another perhaps more superior immi agent said “wait a 3-4 days, there will be a government announcement.” I mirrored her comment as a question: “a government announcement?" yes, she said, “come back in 4 days” -- with one hand in flat shake signifying “about" or "we will see happens...."

[ayahuasca]

Today at Samui Immigration I was told that the requirements for the non-o were not 

https://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/08-edit_NON-O.pdf

but much more extensive:

 

This is the sheet she gave to me, which refers to a Non-OA. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iyq7oo8pd24oyy/Samui_IMMI_NonOA_Sept10.pdf?dl=0

[also linked here Samui Immi Non-OA blather]

And then she said, I “probably have not time, tomorrow is last day to apply [sic].”

 

I then almost expect her to hand me a card of a local agent (haha), but she did not. 

 

Any suggestions? 

 

I can get all the docs in this new listing, including the 

1. proof of insurance

2. medical certificate (probably not obtainable in a day)

 

But I had submitted in good order all the requirements listed on 

https://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/08-edit_NON-O.pdf

 

yet the agent repeated some of them, as if she had not even checked my folder of documents. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by ayahuasca

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, ayahuasca said:

2. medical certificate (probably not obtainable in a day)

It would have been better not to leave the application so late. However, getting a medical certificate typically is possible within an hour. I recommend you research online tonight where to go for a medical certificate, and get up early. Plan to be at immigration by 10:00 am with all the documents, including medical certificate, in hand. If they throw up additional obstacles (original chanote for where you live, for instance) maybe you will have time to comply. Keep your temper with them! The desk officials you are dealing with are under orders and may not be any happier about what their boss tells them to do than you are. Try, as far as you can, to get them on your side.

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, ayahuasca said:

This is the sheet she gave to me, which refers to a Non-OA. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iyq7oo8pd24oyy/Samui_IMMI_NonOA_Sept10.pdf?dl=0

[also linked here Samui Immi Non-OA blather]

That list is for a one year extension of stay not a non immigrant visa application.

Unless you had a OA visa issued by a embassy none of that applies to you. No need for the insurance for a normal extension application.

I medical certificate is a Samui requirement. If I recall correctly they sill want want one from a hospital.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, ayahuasca said:

Today at Samui Immigration I was told that the requirements for the non-o were not 

https://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/08-edit_NON-O.pdf

but much more extensive:

This is the sheet she gave to me, which refers to a Non-OA. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0iyq7oo8pd24oyy/Samui_IMMI_NonOA_Sept10.pdf?dl=0

[also linked here Samui Immi Non-OA blather]

Since the Immigration Officer told you that today is LAST DAY you can apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa, the list on which you prepared your application is the correct one.

The sheet she gave to you lists the requirements for a 1-year extension of stay application, and hence not applicable.

It is correct that Samui requires a medical certificate when applying for any long-stay Visa/extension, but such certificate can be got in less than 1 hour at a local Hospital.

As BritTim already indicated, be polite and courteous when dealing with the Imm officer handling your application, but obviously you should NOT budge to the 'I will have no time to handle your application' excuse.  In that case, politely ask to talk to the officer in charge because a refusal for such reason is simply unacceptable.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Peter Denis