UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[RuamRudy]

And why should they have any concerns? No country which has left the UK has asked to be let back in - and Scotland will be no different. 

 

Business chiefs relaxed about prospect of Scottish independence

 

"A study found that 6 per cent of chief executives and senior directors felt strongly that constitutional change would be a significant risk to their company... but 54 per cent suggested there would not be any problems. 

 

"Ninety-five per cent of the business leaders questioned by Ipsos Mori, the research organisation, suggested they were confident their company would adapt if Scotland was to break from the rest of the UK."

[RuamRudy]

Every day seems to bring another example of how the collective narrative of the UK media has moved to report an almost inevitability about Scottish independence. With the exception of the usual suspects (BBC, Daily Express) most outlets are now reporting about an almost unstoppable move to independence for Scotland. It is no longer if, but when, with most suggesting it will be sooner rather than later.  Article after article is making the points as follows, from the Times today:

 

Divided UK has little chance of saving itself

"When Britain is failing, it is little wonder that so many Scots view the struggles of independence with greater equanimity than they would at times of cheerful prosperity. It might be a difficult and expensive business, but we wouldn't have to be very good to be a little bit better off than the United Kingdom we'd be leaving."

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Every day seems to bring another example of how the collective narrative of the UK media has moved to report an almost inevitability about Scottish independence. With the exception of the usual suspects (BBC, Daily Express) most outlets are now reporting about an almost unstoppable move to independence for Scotland. It is no longer if, but when, with most suggesting it will be sooner rather than later.  Article after article is making the points as follows, from the Times today:

 

Divided UK has little chance of saving itself

"When Britain is failing, it is little wonder that so many Scots view the struggles of independence with greater equanimity than they would at times of cheerful prosperity. It might be a difficult and expensive business, but we wouldn't have to be very good to be a little bit better off than the United Kingdom we'd be leaving."

If you ever get separation there will be very little left of Scotland to separate, if you don't know the words to 'I Belong tay Glasgow' I would learn them now, it might be the only place left in Scotland to separate.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you ever get separation there will be very little left of Scotland to separate, if you don't know the words to 'I Belong tay Glasgow' I would learn them now, it might be the only place left in Scotland to separate.

I am not sure I follow. We are not so affected by coastal erosion north of the border.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 9/3/2020 at 9:06 AM, robblok said:

If this goes through it will be an other blow to the Brits becoming even more insignificant. That is what you get for leaving the EU. If Scotland is gone maybe Ireland can be united again and the English will be just a tiny country in a big world. 

 

Im getting popcorn this might be nice to watch. English free from the EU but becoming the US its slave. ????

 

Anyway lets wait and see.

They should have given the states that voted to stay in the EU a chance to do a reverse succession.  i.e. the UK stayed in the EU and England succeeded from the UK and exited (with the parts that wanted to stay in the EU joining the Euro).    Instead the other parts of the UK union (which was part of the EU)  were forced out - even though part of the selling point of the first referendum was that if the succeeded from the UK they would have to apply separately to join the EU...  It is very easy to see why some might feel they were deceived and fraudulently pulled out of the EU against their will.  I keep on hearing English say that they would be better off than with the anchor that is Scotland but then they don't really leave it up to Scotland honestly.

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

They should have given the states that voted to stay in the EU a chance to do a reverse succession.  i.e. the UK stayed in the EU and England succeeded from the UK and exited (with the parts that wanted to stay in the EU joining the Euro).    Instead the other parts of the UK union (which was part of the EU)  were forced out - even though part of the selling point of the first referendum was that if the succeeded from the UK they would have to apply separately to join the EU...  It is very easy to see why some might feel they were deceived and fraudulently pulled out of the EU against their will.  I keep on hearing English say that they would be better off than with the anchor that is Scotland but then they don't really leave it up to Scotland honestly.

And if you look back further it is also very easy to see why many might feel that they were deceived and fraudulently sucked in in the first place.

[JonnyF]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Every day seems to bring another example of how the collective narrative of the UK media has moved to report an almost inevitability about Scottish independence. With the exception of the usual suspects (BBC, Daily Express) most outlets are now reporting about an almost unstoppable move to independence for Scotland. It is no longer if, but when, with most suggesting it will be sooner rather than later.  Article after article is making the points as follows, from the Times today:

 

Divided UK has little chance of saving itself

"When Britain is failing, it is little wonder that so many Scots view the struggles of independence with greater equanimity than they would at times of cheerful prosperity. It might be a difficult and expensive business, but we wouldn't have to be very good to be a little bit better off than the United Kingdom we'd be leaving."

It's just a current trend that will pass. It seems divisiveness is in vogue, whether it's Black Lives Matter putting race relations back 4 decades with nonsense about white privilege, or obsessed Scottish nationalists trying to break up the UK with nonsense about English exceptionalism.

 

You should remember, it's a lot easier to rip things apart than rebuild them. 

[Rookiescot]

42 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's just a current trend that will pass. It seems divisiveness is in vogue, whether it's Black Lives Matter putting race relations back 4 decades with nonsense about white privilege, or obsessed Scottish nationalists trying to break up the UK with nonsense about English exceptionalism.

 

You should remember, it's a lot easier to rip things apart than rebuild them. 

I see you ignored THE most devisive issue facing the UK namely Brexit.

[robblok]

11 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

They should have given the states that voted to stay in the EU a chance to do a reverse succession.  i.e. the UK stayed in the EU and England succeeded from the UK and exited (with the parts that wanted to stay in the EU joining the Euro).    Instead the other parts of the UK union (which was part of the EU)  were forced out - even though part of the selling point of the first referendum was that if the succeeded from the UK they would have to apply separately to join the EU...  It is very easy to see why some might feel they were deceived and fraudulently pulled out of the EU against their will.  I keep on hearing English say that they would be better off than with the anchor that is Scotland but then they don't really leave it up to Scotland honestly.

Your quite right plus the hyprococy of the leavers. If you think its ok to break loose from the EU the why can't Scotland do the same. Kinda like the elite here do as i tell not do as I do. 

 

The situation of the previous Scottish referendum was totally different from the one now. Major things have changed, they should have their chance to leave the UK. Every part of the UK should have this chance after leaving the EU. Things changed give people a vote.

 

But leavers are scared like hell that their legacy will be a broken up UK, so they resist with all they can. They don't want to turn into little England. I mean nationalists that lose part of their nation because of their stupid decisions. That would be a huge pie on their face. Hence the resistance.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I see you ignored THE most devisive issue facing the UK namely Brexit.

Brexit already happened. We voted, we left.

 

IF it's divisive that's only because the losers still refuse to accept the Democratic result. Losers consent is a key pillar of the Democratic process. The problem is that the far left only accept Democracy when it suits them. If your lot accepted it then it would cease to be divisive. But you choose to cheer for the other side in wishing it to be a failure, just so you can say "I told you so".

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Brexit already happened. We voted, we left.

 

IF it's divisive that's only because the losers still refuse to accept the Democratic result. Losers consent is a key pillar of the Democratic process. The problem is that the far left only accept Democracy when it suits them. If your lot accepted it then it would cease to be divisive. But you choose to cheer for the other side in wishing it to be a failure, just so you can say "I told you so".

A Brexiteer giving sermons on democracy. ????

The same Brexiteers who demand there are no more referendums on any subject where they personally agree with the result. 

I am not cheering for the "other side". I just point out what the reality of Brexit actually is. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable but you should have thought of the consequences before you voted. Not just demand people do not point out what is going on because it makes you face facts.

[JonnyF]

20 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

A Brexiteer giving sermons on democracy. ????

The same Brexiteers who demand there are no more referendums on any subject where they personally agree with the result. 

I am not cheering for the "other side". I just point out what the reality of Brexit actually is. I'm sorry if that makes you uncomfortable but you should have thought of the consequences before you voted. Not just demand people do not point out what is going on because it makes you face facts.

Yes, Democracy is possibly the biggest winner in all of this. It took time, but the Democratic process won out in the end despite the best efforts of Remainers to stifle it. We won't allow you guys to forget your actions, not that easily.

 

No need to apologize. I'm as comfortable with the current situation as I've been in the last 4 and a half years. No news is good news as far as I'm concerned. Ticking along nicely towards a hard Brexit, a clean break from the corrupt protectionist racket. 

[Rookiescot]

50 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, Democracy is possibly the biggest winner in all of this. It took time, but the Democratic process won out in the end despite the best efforts of Remainers to stifle it. We won't allow you guys to forget your actions, not that easily.

 

No need to apologize. I'm as comfortable with the current situation as I've been in the last 4 and a half years. No news is good news as far as I'm concerned. Ticking along nicely towards a hard Brexit, a clean break from the corrupt protectionist racket. 

Is that why Johnson was on the phone pleading for more time to conduct talks?

After all he had set deadlines and now those seem to be ignored.

Brace yourself for Mays deal under a different name. 

[transam]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Is that why Johnson was on the phone pleading for more time to conduct talks?

After all he had set deadlines and now those seem to be ignored.

Brace yourself for Mays deal under a different name. 

Can you tell us BJ's words used in your "pleading" quote, well you must have been eve's dropping...?

[RuamRudy]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It's just a current trend that will pass. It seems divisiveness is in vogue, whether it's Black Lives Matter putting race relations back 4 decades with nonsense about white privilege, or obsessed Scottish nationalists trying to break up the UK with nonsense about English exceptionalism.

 

You should remember, it's a lot easier to rip things apart than rebuild them. 

Where did I mention English exceptionalism? You do a great service by highlighting, once more, how you think the world revolves round you though. Please be reminded, yet again, that England is merely a bit player in this. Scottish independence is not about England in any way, shape or form. We look to ourselves for our future - you are no more relevant than any other country.. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Your quite right plus the hyprococy of the leavers. If you think its ok to break loose from the EU the why can't Scotland do the same. Kinda like the elite here do as i tell not do as I do. 

 

The situation of the previous Scottish referendum was totally different from the one now. Major things have changed, they should have their chance to leave the UK. Every part of the UK should have this chance after leaving the EU. Things changed give people a vote.

 

But leavers are scared like hell that their legacy will be a broken up UK, so they resist with all they can. They don't want to turn into little England. I mean nationalists that lose part of their nation because of their stupid decisions. That would be a huge pie on their face. Hence the resistance.

Is that you, Barrack?

[transam]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Your quite right plus the hyprococy of the leavers. If you think its ok to break loose from the EU the why can't Scotland do the same. Kinda like the elite here do as i tell not do as I do. 

 

The situation of the previous Scottish referendum was totally different from the one now. Major things have changed, they should have their chance to leave the UK. Every part of the UK should have this chance after leaving the EU. Things changed give people a vote.

 

But leavers are scared like hell that their legacy will be a broken up UK, so they resist with all they can. They don't want to turn into little England. I mean nationalists that lose part of their nation because of their stupid decisions. That would be a huge pie on their face. Hence the resistance.

Says a Dutchman.......????

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Can you tell us BJ's words used in your "pleading" quote, well you must have been eve's dropping...?

Yes no problem.

"Please, please, please give us more time because we will be stuffed with no deal. So if I sing I'm a little teapot and do the dance you will give us an extension? Wow thank you Ursula".

 

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes no problem.

"Please, please, please give us more time because we will be stuffed with no deal. So if I sing I'm a little teapot and do the dance you will give us an extension? Wow thank you Ursula".

 

I don't mind a Leo for breakfast either....but not every day.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I don't mind a Leo for breakfast either....but not every day.

Oh never touch Leo or Chang. Just a headache in a bottle to me those are.

Heineken, Singha or if I'm out on the town a San Miguel light.

One has to watch the waistline after all.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh never touch Leo or Chang. Just a headache in a bottle to me those are.

Heineken, Singha or if I'm out on the town a San Miguel light.

One has to watch the waistline after all.

Every day but.

[JonnyF]

22 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Where did I mention English exceptionalism? You do a great service by highlighting, once more, how you think the world revolves round you though. Please be reminded, yet again, that England is merely a bit player in this. Scottish independence is not about England in any way, shape or form. We look to ourselves for our future - you are no more relevant than any other country.. 

You don't want Independence. You want to be a small, bit part player in the United States of Europe. Why do keep pretending to want Independence? It's completely untrue and doesn't become more true because you keep repeating it.

 

You aren't looking to yourselves for your future, you're looking to run and hide behind the EU's apron.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

You don't want Independence. You want to be a small, bit part player in the United States of Europe. Why do keep pretending to want Independence? It's completely untrue and doesn't become more true because you keep repeating it.

EU member states are independent, sovereign nations. They can decide whether and when and how to leave. 
UK member states are not and cannot. They are small vassal states of Westminster. 
 

 
 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[Albert Zweistein]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:06 AM, robblok said:

If this goes through it will be an other blow to the Brits becoming even more insignificant. That is what you get for leaving the EU. If Scotland is gone maybe Ireland can be united again and the English will be just a tiny country in a big world. 

 

Im getting popcorn this might be nice to watch. English free from the EU but becoming the US its slave. ????

 

Anyway lets wait and see.

Protestants and catolics united ? NEVER !

[kingdong]

On 10/7/2020 at 1:59 AM, robblok said:

Your quite right plus the hyprococy of the leavers. If you think its ok to break loose from the EU the why can't Scotland do the same. Kinda like the elite here do as i tell not do as I do. 

 

The situation of the previous Scottish referendum was totally different from the one now. Major things have changed, they should have their chance to leave the UK. Every part of the UK should have this chance after leaving the EU. Things changed give people a vote.

 

But leavers are scared like hell that their legacy will be a broken up UK, so they resist with all they can. They don't want to turn into little England. I mean nationalists that lose part of their nation because of their stupid decisions. That would be a huge pie on their face. Hence the resistance.

i,m english and quite frankly couldn,t give a tinkers cuss if scotland gets its independence and goes crawling to the eu,just as long as theres a hard border ,we don,t want all the economic migrants coming to england after the eu offloads them to scotland

Edited October 8, 2020 by kingdong

[JonnyF]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

i,m english and quite frankly couldn,t give a tinkers cuss if scotland gets its independence and goes crawling to the eu,just as long as theres a hard border ,we don,t want all the economic migrants coming to england after the eu offloads them to scotland

There would have to be a hard border to protect the EU's precious single market. The EU would be responsible for building it but we'd have to help enforce it to keep the hordes of EU economic migrants out.

 

I'm not bothered if they leave either but I would have a lot of sympathy for all the Scots living it up in England, having to return north of the border and live under Sturgeon's increasingly authoritarian diktats. 

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

There would have to be a hard border to protect the EU's precious single market. The EU would be responsible for building it but we'd have to help enforce it to keep the hordes of EU economic migrants out.

 

I'm not bothered if they leave either but I would have a lot of sympathy for all the Scots living it up in England, having to return north of the border and live under Sturgeon's increasingly authoritarian diktats. 

Indeed yes we would need a hard border.

But if thats not an issue already because of Brexit then why would it be an issue for Scotland?

[robblok]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

i,m english and quite frankly couldn,t give a tinkers cuss if scotland gets its independence and goes crawling to the eu,just as long as theres a hard border ,we don,t want all the economic migrants coming to england after the eu offloads them to scotland

Great then let Scotland leave. Make a hard border kill business. Xenophobes around the world worry too much. 

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Indeed yes we would need a hard border.

But if thats not an issue already because of Brexit then why would it be an issue for Scotland?

Where did I say it would be an issue? There would be a bit of additional paperwork and some tariffs for goods, and passport control for people - and that's about it.

 

If you're expecting me to stoop to the levels that Remainers did with their Project Fear nonsense then you're sadly mistaken. I have no interest in telling lies to try and prevent Scotland leaving. 

[robblok]

On 10/7/2020 at 12:41 PM, nauseus said:

Is that you, Barrack?

Wish I was him, it would have meant i would have amounted to much more then I have. But did you have any other constructive remarks ?