UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[Phulublub]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

What a load of tosh. Brexit had nothing to do with the Scots Nationalist wanting to partition the UK, are you seriously saying that without the Brexit vote that the Scots Nationalist would have been content to live in perfect harmony with their lairy neighbours 'the English', of course they wouldn't, any excuse would have sufficed.

When you voted in 2014 for your 'independence', you yourselves were voting to leave the EU, try being a little more honest.

Brexit has a LOT to do with turning those in Scotland who were never Scot Nats from being pro-UK into those who very well might vote for Independence given a choice now.

 

PH

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

That reads like yourself.....????

 

Plus, it is obvious that you want the total break up of the UK....Sad really...

 

I am not sure of the relevance of your photo, but I can post irrelevant photos too. 

[Phulublub]

Just now, transam said:

????..................Well that takes the biscuit........May I call you, bill or Ben...?    ????

No.  Within minutes you posted two diametrically opposed views.

 

PH

[Phulublub]

5 hours ago, transam said:

Yes but, his lot are not trying to break up the United Kingdom.....????

And that has diddly squat to do with this

 

PH

[transam]

1 minute ago, Phulublub said:

No.  Within minutes you posted two diametrically opposed views.

 

PH

I am not going to deviate into geometry just for you....????...................????

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

And that has diddly squat to do with this

 

PH

Calm down chap...........????

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Brexit has a LOT to do with turning those in Scotland who were never Scot Nats from being pro-UK into those who very well might vote for Independence given a choice now.

 

PH

You are having comprehension problems understanding my post. I will try to make it a little simpler, the SNP wanted independence before Brexit and irrespective of which way the EU referendum had gone, whether leave or remain, they would still have wanted independence after that. It has nothing to do with convertions.

ps. a comma or 2 wouldn't go amiss.

Edited October 15, 2020 by vogie

[Kadilo]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are having comprehension problems understanding my post. I will try to make it a little simpler, the SNP wanted independence before Brexit and irrespective of which way the EU referendum had gone, whether leave or remain, they would still have wanted independence after that. It has nothing to do with conversations.

ps. a comma or 2 wouldn't go amiss.

Or a full stop in your case. 

 

”The SNP” was the start of a new sentence. 

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are having comprehension problems understanding my post. I will try to make it a little simpler, the SNP wanted independence before Brexit and irrespective of which way the EU referendum had gone, whether leave or remain, they would still have wanted independence after that. It has nothing to do with conversations.

ps. a comma or 2 wouldn't go amiss.

Voting intentions towards independence has gone from 45% to 58% since 2014.

Now I wonder what could possibly have persuaded people to change their minds.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Or a full stop in your case. 

 

”The SNP” was the start of a new sentence. 

Is that all you can offer to the debate, seriously. Go on give it a go, say something interesting.????????????

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Voting intentions towards independence has gone from 45% to 58% since 2014.

Now I wonder what could possibly have persuaded people to change their minds.

Yes I was going to mention that, it is strange and even co-incidental when ever the SNP/Mrs Sturgeon is in a pickle or even front page news along comes another mysterious voting intention poll. I will have to sleep on that one I'm afraid. 

Is it true that the Englisman Angus Robertson has set up his own polling company?

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes I was going to mention that, it is strange and even co-incidental when ever the SNP/Mrs Sturgeon is in a pickle or even front page news along comes another mysterious voting intention poll. I will have to sleep on that one I'm afraid. 

Is it true that the Englisman Angus Robertson has set up his own polling company?

So you simply dismiss the polls? Odd how you Brexiteers are capable of ignoring anything which is contrary to your position.

In order to explain why support has risen dramatically you come up with a conspiracy theory. 

 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, transam said:

Yes but, his lot are not trying to break up the United Kingdom.....????

That's a good one, Bojo has been working flat out for the SNP and Sinn Fein.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So you simply dismiss the polls? Odd how you Brexiteers are capable of ignoring anything which is contrary to your position.

In order to explain why support has risen dramatically you come up with a conspiracy theory. 

 

No it is not odd to dismiss the Polls..............as Peter Hitchens remarked that "Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion, not a device for measuring it. Crack that, and it all makes sense.

 

There is only one accurate poll and that was the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum.

[Kadilo]

46 minutes ago, vogie said:

Is that all you can offer to the debate, seriously. Go on give it a go, say something interesting.????????????

Sorry, it was you that thought you would get a cheap grammar shot in trying to deflect, even though you know it’s frowned upon on TVF. 

 

I was just concerned. You are already getting battered in here, no need to lose the grammar discussion as well by making a proper Boris of it. 

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

If the Scots wish to leave the UK then there is very little point in denying their will.  I would suggest that the current surge in the opinion polls has more to do with the global economic slump and covid19, but the useless UK government is an understandable target as it has been for many years now.  Whilst a 55% majority is wholly possible and may be deemed a super majority, there are stark differences among the regions, so if the islands for example wish to remain in the UK, then this must be respected in my opinion.  A referendum in 5 year's time would be best.

There is only one way to find out what the people want and if in the election a manifesto with independence in the agenda gets a significant result then there can be little doubt the issue will come to the fore.

The current leader would prefer to use a section 30 order but nothing can be taken for granted. If no such order is forthcoming the Scottish parliament have the option of debating and passing a consultative referendum bill. Should that come about and there is a positive result, Westminster will have nowhere to hide.

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

No it is not odd to dismiss the Polls..............as Peter Hitchens remarked that "Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion, not a device for measuring it. Crack that, and it all makes sense.

 

There is only one accurate poll and that was the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum.

Ah OK. Polls are to be ignored from now on. Until you finally find one that suits your agenda and then you will be waving it from the rafters.

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

You are having comprehension problems understanding my post. I will try to make it a little simpler, the SNP wanted independence before Brexit and irrespective of which way the EU referendum had gone, whether leave or remain, they would still have wanted independence after that. It has nothing to do with convertions.

ps. a comma or 2 wouldn't go amiss.

No comprehension problems here.  It is you who has the problem understanding.

 

The SNP want independence.  They have always wanted independence.  They will alwys want independence.

 

Others, Scottish and not Scottish, living in Scotland or elsewhere previously did not want independence.  Some of those now do; others of those are trending towards that view.

 

Being in the SNP (or even supporting the SNP) and wanting Scottish Independence are not the same thing.

 

PH

Edited October 15, 2020 by Phulublub

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Sorry, it was you that thought you would get a cheap grammar shot in trying to deflect, even though you know it’s frowned upon on TVF. 

 

I was just concerned. You are already getting battered in here, no need to lose the grammar discussion as well by making a proper Boris of it. 

It was not a cheap grammar shot, when a poster writes posts without using punctuation, it can make it very difficult to de-cypher the post.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

No comprehension problems here.  It is you who has the prolem understanding.

 

The SNP want independence.  They have always wanted independence.  They will alwys want independence.

 

Others, Scottish and not Scottish, living in Scotland or elsewhere previously did not want independence.  Some of those now do; others of those are trending towards that view.

 

Being in the SNP (or even supporting the SNP) and wanting Scottish Independence are not the same thing.

 

PH

Very interesting, but it has nothing to do with my post!

[Phulublub]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

It was not a cheap grammar shot, when a poster writes posts without using punctuation, it can make it very difficult to de-cypher the post.

It may not have been cheap, but then again neither was it accurate.  My post (the one to which you replied) needed no other punctuation than the full stop at the end of the sentence.

 

Have you ever taught English?

 

PH

[Kadilo]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

It was not a cheap grammar shot, when a poster writes posts without using punctuation, it can make it very difficult to de-cypher the post.

You really need to know how to use it yourself before you start picking up others Mr Comma man. 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah OK. Polls are to be ignored from now on. Until you finally find one that suits your agenda and then you will be waving it from the rafters.

And if I do that, you would be quite within your rights to remind me of what polls are really about.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

And if I do that, you would be quite within your rights to remind me of what polls are really about.

Why?

You will simply claim you never said it.

[Phulublub]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Very interesting, but it has nothing to do with my post!

Nothing to do with posts trying to divert the thread into one about grammar. 

 

It was, however, everything to do with the subject under discussion and why there has been an upturn in those looking for Independence for Scotland, most of whom have nothing whatever to do with the SNP.

 

PH

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

You really need to know how to use it yourself before you start picking up others Mr Comma man. 

You need to stay on topic and if possible add something to the discussion rather than bickering.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Nothing to do with posts trying to divert the thread into one about grammar. 

 

It was, however, everything to do with the subject under discussion and why there has been an upturn in those looking for Independence for Scotland, most of whom have nothing whatever to do with the SNP.

 

PH

So what you are saying is that those wanting independence in Scotland has nothing to do with the independence party, is that what you are telling us?????????????????????

I'm sorry but I cannot make head nor tail of your posts. Goodbye.

[Phulublub]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

So what you are saying is that those wanting independence in Scotland has nothing to do with the independence party, is that what you are telling us?????????????????????

I'm sorry but I cannot make head nor tail of your posts. Goodbye.

It really is pretty simple.

 

ALL in the SNP want Independence. Always have, always will.  Brexit does not feature in their reasons for this.

 

Some of those NOT in the SNP also want Independence.  They have not always done so and many of them voted against in 2014.  But Brexit has changed their outlook.  Many now would vote for Independence (while, at the same time, wanting nothing whatever to do with the SNP).  Others are moving in that direction.

 

PH

[7by7]

6 hours ago, transam said:

The SNP has a leader that was prosecuted for dodgy stuff, found not guilty, but the fire is still smouldering...

Sturgeon is the SNP leader and has not been prosecuted for anything that I am aware of.

 

But if you meant Salmond; then yes, he was acquitted of all charges. What fire is still smouldering? That he is a supporter of Scottish independence and therefore in your mind must be guilty regardless?

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

A future SNP leader walked because he was sending dodgy texts to a teen boy....

Yes, he did resign as finance minister and from the party; jumped before he was pushed. Derek Mackay urged to quit as MSP over messages sent to boy

Quote

Nicola Sturgeon, the first minister, revealed on Thursday morning that Mackay had stood down from her government hours before he was due to deliver next year’s budget. Four hours later, she told MSPs he had also been suspended from the Scottish National party.

In an emergency statement, Sturgeon told the Scottish parliament: “It was clear to me Derek Mackay’s conduct fell far short of what was expected of a minister.”

As with an MP at Westminster, it is not within a party's power to force an MSP to resign from their seat at Holyrood. Indeed, there is currently no recall system at Holyrood similar to that at Westminster.

 

I understand that MacKay is still an MSP, which is shameful, but as with Ferrier the SNP have done all that is within their power.

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

An SNP House of Commons MP did something totally ridiculous and doesn't realise it, it seems, it was a blip......

I assume that you are talking about Ferrier? If so, I repeat; the SNP have sacked her from the party and everyone in the party from Sturgeon down to Ferrier's local party have condemned her and called upon her to resign her seat. There is nothing more they can do.

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

You say the SNP is honourable...

I said that the SNP have acted completely honourably in this matter. They have sacked her from the party and repeatedly called upon her to resign as an MP.

 

Like all political parties, I'm sure that there are occasions when they have not been as honourable. No party nor politician has a cupboard completely free of skeletons; and that includes your hero Boris. Is it honourable to cheat on your wife with a number of women before leaving her for yet another?

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

He was investigated by the police and faced no charges,

Correct; for the reasons given in Durham Police's statement.

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

I await the verdict on Ferrier with interest as she 100% mixed with folk on a looooooong journey to Scotland....

How do you know how many people, if any, she mixed with? Were you on the train with her?

 

Even if she followed the strict social distancing rules applicable on all public transport here, including wearing a mask for the entire journey, that does not excuse her actions.

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

22 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 If they do; they must declare it in the Register of members interests.

 

From The Code of Conduct for Members of Parliament

 

Are you saying YOU know MP's that don't...?

No, simply pointing the rules out. Are you saying that you know of MPs who have broken those rules and got away with it? If so, I understand that The Sun will pay you a generous amount for the details!

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

I have turned my PC on to find you have quoted me 12 times on this thread,

 Yes, I quoted you 12 times as I was responding to 12 different posts by you! If you wish to set a limit on the number of posts others can make, maybe you should set an example yourself, first!

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

I have replied to a few really stupid posts, the same ol' stuff, so I will not be reading the remaining anti everything mainly garabage.

You have two unfailing responses when you're presented with facts which you cannot dispute; ignore them or make a comment similar to the above. Therefore that response was anticipated; nay, expected.

 

7 hours ago, transam said:

Now if you bunch them all up into one concise post I will read it and go from there.

There's a good chap.

I've tried it before; but quoting from and replying to posts across multiple pages presents some difficulties as they can disappear into cyberspace when moving from page to page; not always, but sometimes.

 

If you follow your own advice and put all your points into one concise post that will eliminate the problem.

 

There's a good chap!

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

It really is pretty simple.

 

ALL in the SNP want Independence. Always have, always will.  Brexit does not feature in their reasons for this.

 

Some of those NOT in the SNP also want Independence.  They have not always done so and many of them voted against in 2014.  But Brexit has changed their outlook.  Many now would vote for Independence (while, at the same time, wanting nothing whatever to do with the SNP).  Others are moving in that direction.

 

PH

Why are you telling me this, I repeat, it has nothing to do with what I said, I said 'the snp wanted independence before the EU referendum and they wanted it after the EU referendum' Do you agree? If you want to add your own words to what I said, that is entirely your choice.