Trump holds campaign rally indoors despite coronavirus concerns

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every time anyone drives a car they put others at risk. No one is advocating banning cars.

Freedom is the right to make one's own choices, including the right to live an unhealthy lifestyle which makes one susceptible to diseases such as diabetes, heart disease and corona, all of which might kill one.

 

Driving is regulated by numerous rules and laws. There is no freedom in the way suggested there. Living an unhealthy lifestyle does not usually involve major effects on other people's lives. Odd examples.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Driving recklessly is criminal behavior. Bad example  

They have to get caught first. Unless you have left Thailand, you live in a country where it's almost unknown for anyone to be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've met hundreds of people in my life. Very few cared about anyone else.

 

When you and others say not wearing masks and not keeping apart from others is putting others at risk you are saying that most of the population of NZ is putting others at risk. Guess what. Hardly anyone is dying of corona, and hardly anyone is catching it.

 

Personal anecdotes, silly as they are, do not carry much weight. I kinda doubt you feel that societies are run in accordance with do-what-I-bloody-want set of mind. Maybe your issue is with the word "care" - I don't suggest people do this out of brotherly love, but more to do with self-preservation and indoctrination.

 

You bring up New Zealand, a relatively small and easily isolated country as comparable for the situation in the USA? Get serious.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Driving is regulated by numerous rules and laws. There is no freedom in the way suggested there. Living an unhealthy lifestyle does not usually involve major effects on other people's lives. Odd examples.

How many deaths on Thailand's roads last year? Did the laws save them?

 

Living an unhealthy lifestyle impacts many other people, such as those left when one dies and the cost to the taxpayer for their hospital care.

 

Anyway off topic so bye.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They have to get caught first. Unless you have left Thailand, you live in a country where it's almost unknown for anyone to be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

 

That's not even remotely true. People get fined etc. every day, even in Thailand. Doesn't have anything to do with your argument, though - unless you're advocating lawlessness is the way forward. But then I thought you were cheering the 'law and order' President.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How many deaths on Thailand's roads last year? Did the laws save them?

 

Living an unhealthy lifestyle impacts many other people, such as those left when one dies and the cost to the taxpayer for their hospital care.

 

Anyway off topic so bye.

 

If there were no laws, things would be worse. What's your point and what does Thailand have to do with anything?

 

Living an unhealthy lifestyle which does not directly effect or endanger others is acceptable within the premise of democracies. That's the sort of freedom you were shooting for - only that Covid-19 is not same same.

 

Off topic how? More like 'Fall back! Fall back!"

[Tug]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How many deaths on Thailand's roads last year? Did the laws save them?

 

Living an unhealthy lifestyle impacts many other people, such as those left when one dies and the cost to the taxpayer for their hospital care.

 

Anyway off topic so bye.

It must be truly exhausting to come up with (stuff) to defend trump under your (freedom) of choice I guess it would be ok for a hiv positive hooker to keep working huh?with trump is worse much worse part of the oath of office is swearing to protect Americans how is holding rallies during a highly contagious pandemic?trump is spreading this plague by the hundreds he is derelict in his oath to protect the people no excuses he knows it’s contagious and doesent care he is what he is and soon he will be what he is a failed ex president 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Tug

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Sounds more like you're for the freedom to endanger the lives of others. 

 

Important to note there was one person quite well protected from infection at that notorious super spreading rally.

 

The so called president himself.

 

Behind him a group of well distanced fans all in masks. There is no doubt to me that his campaign mandated masks in that group as they were closest to their dear leader and yelling their spray in his direction. 

 

The main crowd much further distanced away all cramped together and almost no masks.

 

The "president" protected like a kind of queen bee with zero regard for the health of his people many of whom are obviously older and or obese.

 

What kind of "president" is this?

At least bolsanaro is consistent, and risks himself as well.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They have to get caught first. Unless you have left Thailand, you live in a country where it's almost unknown for anyone to be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

That's your excuse? Wow.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every time anyone drives a car they put others at risk. No one is advocating banning cars.

Freedom is the right to make one's own choices, including the right to live an unhealthy lifestyle which makes one susceptible to diseases such as diabetes, heart disease and corona, all of which might kill one.

Nothing is risk free, but intelligent people reduce unnecessary risks.  Even when you go out with a mask you put others at risk, but you greatly reduce the risk to others and yourself. 

 

When you drive do you stay on the correct side of the road and follow other basic rules designed to keep you and others safer?  Aren't you giving up your freedom to drive on whatever side of the road you want to?  Would you agree that the safety gained is worth the minor sacrifice of following sensible driving rules?

 

Minor, inconsequential freedoms are sometimes sacrificed for the greater good.  It's the price we pay to live (reasonably) safely in a crowded world.

Edited September 16, 2020 by heybruce

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Personal anecdotes, silly as they are, do not carry much weight. I kinda doubt you feel that societies are run in accordance with do-what-I-bloody-want set of mind. Maybe your issue is with the word "care" - I don't suggest people do this out of brotherly love, but more to do with self-preservation and indoctrination.

 

You bring up New Zealand, a relatively small and easily isolated country as comparable for the situation in the USA? Get serious.

New Zealand is the only argument thaibeachlovers has in his crusade against disease prevention.  The fact that a geographically isolated country is not representative of the situation in the rest of the world doesn't seem to register on him.

[jcsmith]

On 9/14/2020 at 10:45 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Each and every person there will have made a choice to be there, understanding the risks.

As did Herman Cain. Who didn't make the choice to be there though are all the other people they come into contact with.

 

The driving a car argument... There are an average of 38k vehicle related deaths in the U.S. for example each year on average. In 6 1/2 months there have been 200k deaths from Covid in the U.S. It's basically 10x more deadly. That is with the restrictions on Covid. Without restrictions it would be far worse. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by jcsmith

[Tie Dye Samurai]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How many deaths on Thailand's roads last year? Did the laws save them?

 

Living an unhealthy lifestyle impacts many other people, such as those left when one dies and the cost to the taxpayer for their hospital care.

 

Anyway off topic so bye.

ridiculous....comparing wearing a mask to driving...and your examples are worse...."those left when somebody dies" and "the cost to the taxpayer for their hospital care"...both of those examples are all the more reason to be wearing a mask because they both apply even more than to living an unhealthy lifestyle. At least when you live an unhealthy lifestyle you dont physically infect others with it.

 

No wonder you bailed on the topic....

[rudi49jr]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm for freedom to make my own decisions.

I’m all for that as well, but what you don’t seem to realize - or don’t give a flying **** about - is that your decisions can impact other people’s lives in very serious ways. So if you go to one of those Trump rallies and don’t wear a mask and don’t practice social distancing, you can become a serious health risk for others. Over 225,000 infections have now been traced to Sturgis, and I’m betting some of them, or even quite a few of them, have ended in people dying. And all that just because a bunch of yahoos wanted to exercise their right to make their own decisions.

Let me ask you this: if your neighbor decides to start burning his waste in his backyard and your house is full of smoke every night as a result of that, will you respect his freedom to make that decision?

[Morch]

It's all Biden's fault....

 

Trump Blames Biden, Who Isn’t President, For Not Instituting Mask Mandate

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-biden-mask-mandate-abc-town-hall_n_5f617ac9c5b68d1b09c9541a

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

It's all Biden's fault....

 

Trump Blames Biden, Who Isn’t President, For Not Instituting Mask Mandate

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-biden-mask-mandate-abc-town-hall_n_5f617ac9c5b68d1b09c9541a

He is living in his own dream world.

[nakornpingpong]

Trump says CDC Director Robert Redfield 'confused' about coronavirus vaccine, mask efficacy. Redfield responded.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/16/trump-cdc-director-robert-redfield-confused-vaccine-masks/5720828002/

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, heybruce said:

Even when you go out with a mask you put others at risk, but you greatly reduce the risk to others and yourself. 

A mask without eye protection INCREASES the risk to yourself. See how many people are adjusting the mask with fingers that could be infected, which means they could introduce the virus into their eye. Not many in public wear eye protection.

I'm far more likely to pick up the virus on my fingers than through the air.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

ridiculous....comparing wearing a mask to driving...and your examples are worse...."those left when somebody dies" and "the cost to the taxpayer for their hospital care"...both of those examples are all the more reason to be wearing a mask because they both apply even more than to living an unhealthy lifestyle. At least when you live an unhealthy lifestyle you dont physically infect others with it.

 

No wonder you bailed on the topic....

No, I just can't be bothered being baited any more, but it was off topic. Bye.

Edited September 17, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[Fat is a type of crazy]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A mask without eye protection INCREASES the risk to yourself. See how many people are adjusting the mask with fingers that could be infected, which means they could introduce the virus into their eye. Not many in public wear eye protection.

I'm far more likely to pick up the virus on my fingers than through the air.

I am not sure if you are saying this, but nearly all scientists say that a mask is better than no mask including those at the CDC.

But Donald says that a mask may be worse than no mask, and he says he knows people who agree, so he's probably right. 

As you say it sounds  like eye protection may be even better though. Not sure about wearing safety goggles to the supermarket.

[Scott]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A mask without eye protection INCREASES the risk to yourself. See how many people are adjusting the mask with fingers that could be infected, which means they could introduce the virus into their eye. Not many in public wear eye protection.

I'm far more likely to pick up the virus on my fingers than through the air.

Please provide evidence of this.   We do not permit the posting of false information.  

 

[Tug]

41 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I am not sure if you are saying this, but nearly all scientists say that a mask is better than no mask including those at the CDC.

But Donald says that a mask may be worse than no mask, and he says he knows people who agree, so he's probably right. 

As you say it sounds  like eye protection may be even better though. Not sure about wearing safety goggles to the supermarket.

Imo pay no attention to trump on this matter he doesent care we all know proper safety protocols personally I wear tight fitting sunglasses with a mask when out and about hand sanitizer often covid Donnie can’t even bring himself to mandate masks he’s a train wreck killing more Americans every day due to incompetence or I fear worse it’s pure hubris ether way it’s epic malpractice 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A mask without eye protection INCREASES the risk to yourself. See how many people are adjusting the mask with fingers that could be infected, which means they could introduce the virus into their eye. Not many in public wear eye protection.

I'm far more likely to pick up the virus on my fingers than through the air.

Not true according to reputable sources.

Quote

These data also suggest that wearing face masks protects people (both health-care workers and the general public) against infection by these coronaviruses, and that eye protection could confer additional benefit.

Additional benefit, yes, so that also means that a mask without eye protection in itself is beneficial.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

 

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

He is living in his own dream world.

 

It is intriguing. Does he actually believe what he says and post? Or just a case of saying whatever and not caring whether it's true or not? Then there's the other option - knowingly spreading lies. I think that possibly it's all three.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A mask without eye protection INCREASES the risk to yourself. See how many people are adjusting the mask with fingers that could be infected, which means they could introduce the virus into their eye. Not many in public wear eye protection.

I'm far more likely to pick up the virus on my fingers than through the air.

First, stop taking isolated sentences of my posts out of context.  If you want to reply to my post, reply to the complete post.

 

Second:

 

"I'm far more likely to pick up the virus on my fingers than through the air."

 

If you stick your fingers in your eyes a lot and rarely breathe, that may be true.  However for most people:

 

"The primary and most important mode of transmission for COVID-19 is through close contact from person-to-person. Based on data from lab studies on COVID-19 and what we know about similar respiratory diseases, it may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this isn’t thought to be the main way the virus spreads."   https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0522-cdc-updates-covid-transmission.html

[xofswen]

On 9/14/2020 at 7:39 AM, opalred said:

keep it up trump /by election day all your hillbilly fans  will be sick /unable to vote

And yet he'll STILL be reelected. For some very basic and compelling reasons.

Edited September 17, 2020 by xofswen

[nakornpingpong]

5 minutes ago, xofswen said:

And yet he'll STILL be reelected. For some very basic and compelling reasons.

Predictions like these, whether they come from Trump or Biden supporters, betray not a trace of serious thought.

[xofswen]

On 9/14/2020 at 10:10 AM, Peterw42 said:

Let me guess, the deep state will be giving Biden the answers ? Or maybe China will arrange it, then again, I wouldnt rule out the globalist new world order.

We are going to need a bigger tin foil hat.

Sadly, (or maybe not) there will be no presidential debates this election as Joe "will acquire a case of the wuhan flu" so he can duck out of the debates and blame Trump for the cancelled debates! Fantastic strategy for the dems. Another possibility and likelihood scenario is that a HUGE bombshell is being planned for launching in the coming days, weeks, right up to election that rocks the foundation of a particular candidate and affording no time to recover. Wait and see. Politics is serious business.

[nakornpingpong]

1 minute ago, xofswen said:

Another possibility and likelihood scenario is that a HUGE bombshell is being planned for launching in the coming days, weeks, right up to election that rocks the foundation of a particular candidate and affording no time to recover. Wait and see. Politics is serious business.

Did you get this information from Q?

[xofswen]

Oh, and be sure to include leader of the free world.