What happens next with UK plan to breach Brexit divorce treaty?

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Seems that it is only disturbing you ....not us Europeans  ....whyyyy...! ????

I find it hilarious. The Dutch (like the French and others) bend over and do the Germans bidding. Why are the EU countries so angry we are leaving the EU. After all we are going to be like North Korea, allegedly.

 

How will the Dutch, French and Spanish fishing industries be by the way when we leave with no deal. Say bye bye we don't need you. But, that has not been the message for the last 4 years. It has been one of posturing, threatening and do as we say, or else.

[3NUMBAS]

EU  spincters are twitching as they fear the worst of WTO rules and no payments from uk

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Oh come on now, haven't you heard the responses to the same UK Remainer claims? He signed it to get us past a Remainer Parliament and get Brexit done. We are now officially out, and overriding some of the EU tricks with our on law. In a few weeks will be out of the transition period too, and the EU will have forced themselves into No Deal.

The rest of the world are knocking on the door. Now, do you want to sell us luxury cars on our terms in our country?

So rather than the EU acting in 'bad faith' as you Brexiters continually claim, the opposite is true. Johnson never had any intention of honouring the agreement. Pretty much a definition of 'bad faith' in my book.

 

As for the knocking on the door. That's actually the rest of the world slamming the door behind them, as they realise that this UK government can't be trusted.

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

EU  spincters are twitching as they fear the worst of WTO rules and no payments from uk

no payment = no access to the single market 

[Loiner]

57 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 If you think the differences between Nationalists and Unionists in Northern Ireland are all about money, money, money then you know nothing.

 

Unless you are choosing to ignore not just several hundred years of history, but also the events of the 1970s. 80s and 90s simply to justify the lies of your hero.

 

You are the one who keeps banging on and on about money!

 

But yes; I want what's best for my country; in trade, employment etc.. I firmly believe that obtaining that meant remaining in the EU.

 

But it's too late for that now, so we have to make the best of what we have.

 

Something you lying hero is making even more difficult for us than before.

They've all been living with their history for hundreds of years. This EU remain nonsense is just a blip in that history. When we are free world trading and prosperous all the EU and Remainer rabble rousing will be forgotten as they all will be making money.

 

No, it's not Leavers who keep banging on about money, we are about sovereignty and our own control or everything. Money and economy is almost exclusively a Remainer domain.

 

All my heroes will make things better for us than before. Pity about the Remainer wets though.

[Loiner]

39 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So according to you, despite his 80 seat majority, Johnson still had to battle a Remainer Parliament?

 

Really?

 

Johnson's European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 was passed with a majority of 99 in the Commons. 

 

A 99 majority from a Remainer Parliament? 

 

Really?

 

Amendments proposed by the House of Lords were rejected by the Commons and It received Royal Assent on the 23rd January 2020.

Yes, the Lords is stuffed full of Remainers isn't it. The Act had to be passed through to Get Brexit Done. It officially was on 31st January 2020. Had it not, we would have still be led a merry dance by you Remainer event today. 

Really, Really. Did you miss what was happening?
Now Boris is overriding the trick parts the Remainers and EU had left in there. Come next January he could even ditch the whole thing. 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

A trick treaty, 'broken' only by something with the importance of a council by-law, or of a parking ticket. The world doesn't care.

No agreement on trade is better than a bad agreement on trade. The UK will be OK thanks. What international products are you thinking of not dealing with us now?

You can't seriously think that trading on WTO rules with the EU will be beneficial for the UK? Tariffs will raise prices. The likely upshot is that EU importers will look elsewhere for many products, and the first place will be elsewhere in the EU. Where will the UK export its surplus (expensive) goods to? Will Japan pick up all the slack? No doubt, an overly simple scenario no doubt but, I'd contend, not without a ring of truth to it.

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

So rather than the EU acting in 'bad faith' as you Brexiters continually claim, the opposite is true. Johnson never had any intention of honouring the agreement. Pretty much a definition of 'bad faith' in my book.

 

As for the knocking on the door. That's actually the rest of the world slamming the door behind them, as they realise that this UK government can't be trusted.

Try reading another book then. Boris got us out of the EU and now is getting us out of a bad trade deal.

It's a revolving door.

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

You can't seriously think that trading on WTO rules with the EU will be beneficial for the UK? Tariffs will raise prices. The likely upshot is that EU importers will look elsewhere for many products, and the first place will be elsewhere in the EU. Where will the UK export its surplus (expensive) goods to? Will Japan pick up all the slack? No doubt, an overly simple scenario no doubt but, I'd contend, not without a ring of truth to it.

It will be beneficial for the UK to get out of the transition period without signing our free life away, so No Deal is the best way out, and roll on WTO rules. The EU will quickly come back for a sensible trade deal when their more expensive products are piled up without UK buyers. Our exports to the EU are relatively specialist, so not easily replaced on the cheapo market. Many of our exports are not even goods at all.

[jvs]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Try reading another book then. Boris got us out of the EU and now is getting us out of a bad trade deal.

It's a revolving door.

Out of the frying pan into the fire?

If the UK decides to leave with no deal there are also lots of options for the EU.

What about transport of UK goods across Europe?

It will add countless  waiting hours to leave and enter both ways.

some kind of a deal is preferable imo.

[3NUMBAS]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

It will be beneficial for the UK to get out of the transition period without signing our free life away, so No Deal is the best way out, and roll on WTO rules. The EU will quickly come back for a sensible trade deal when their more expensive products are piled up without UK buyers. Our exports to the EU are relatively specialist, so not easily replaced on the cheapo market. Many of our exports are not even goods at all.

bojo has promised to play the freeport card if the eu wont respond

[david555]

25 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I find it hilarious. The Dutch (like the French and others) bend over and do the Germans bidding. Why are the EU countries so angry we are leaving the EU. After all we are going to be like North Korea, allegedly.

 

How will the Dutch, French and Spanish fishing industries be by the way when we leave with no deal. Say bye bye we don't need you. But, that has not been the message for the last 4 years. It has been one of posturing, threatening and do as we say, or else.

It just make me smile each time you start your crusade against the Dutch French and or Spanish or any other Euro country.....you really have a problem with it that we do not make a fuz about the German engine steaming ahead as leader ????

 

About the fish ...i think after 1 Januari maybe you see more clear in the whole fish story 

 

BTW we accept a long time already you are leaving .....oh  are you not out already ...???? and still trying to push your way tru just as a member ....nono that is not done Tommy ....out is out May said ...

 

But when you brexiteers go finally understand you can not just have it your way ...as a leaver ! ......Leavers must travell light ....???? no cherry  luggeage 

[Nigel Garvie]

20 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well if you have an idea how the EEC started and the EU formed you would understand that it came from the second world war.

 

If you haven't that understanding then we have little to discuss. It is fine for posters to talk about the break up of a union that has been in existence for a few hundred years but the fact we tried a trade union that is not what was written on the paper and you are up in arms.

 

You can yawn, I find you ignorant of the actual facts.

 

The EU started with an agreement over Iron and Steel aimed at benefitting all the parties and avoiding unwanted competition.  To say that it "Came" from the second world war, would have to be justified by some evidence that it derived directly from it, rather than just followed on from it in time.

 

I'm simply tired of WW11 references in all these Brexit related forums, which I think are not relevant to these days or times. 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

No, it's all about the money, money, money.

 

Don't you realise that? The Remainers are the same, that's all you lot ever think about isn't it?

Stick to brexit, you know nothing about Ireland. 

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, jvs said:

Out of the frying pan into the fire?

If the UK decides to leave with no deal there are also lots of options for the EU.

What about transport of UK goods across Europe?

It will add countless  waiting hours to leave and enter both ways.

some kind of a deal is preferable imo.

No fires just free trade with the world. UK has many options too, more than when tied into the protectionist EU bloc.

How many UK goods are transported across Europe? Not many I'll bet, and not as many transported into Europe. Certainly not as many as EU goods are transported across the channel. If you are worried about waiting hours, depart earlier or find another route.
A deal may be acceptable, but not a capitulation which the EU wants.

 

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Stick to brexit, you know nothing about Ireland. 

Then stop bringing Ireland into the Brexit negotiations. You cannot be the EU's lever to get their rules in place, and possibly even your own republican hopes closer. Stick on your own side of the border.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

“I wonder how long it will take before the majority of the UK population will realize what a stupid idea that Brexit is.”

 

I wonder how long it will take before the majority of remainers will realize that they lost the referendum vote on Brexit. 

 

Bye bye EU.

That doesn't make Brexit any better.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

[...] and the EU will have forced themselves into No Deal.

The rest of the world are knocking on the door.

Do you really believe all that? Amazing!

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Then stop bringing Ireland into the Brexit negotiations. You cannot be the EU's lever to get their rules in place, and possibly even your own republican hopes closer. Stick on your own side of the border.

As long as Eire and the english attempts to undermine the Good Friday Agreement are involved I will put forth my views. 
 

You signed the WA, you passed it through your brexiteer parliament and you are breaking international law by undermining it. Stop whining and honour your treaty obligations. 

[jvs]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No fires just free trade with the world. UK has many options too, more than when tied into the protectionist EU bloc.

How many UK goods are transported across Europe? Not many I'll bet, and not as many transported into Europe. Certainly not as many as EU goods are transported across the channel. If you are worried about waiting hours, depart earlier or find another route.
A deal may be acceptable, but not a capitulation which the EU wants.

 

You Sir are arguing with you heart,check out the numbers.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7851/

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, jvs said:

You Sir are arguing with you heart,check out the numbers.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7851/

And you sir are just referring to a bunch of numbers. They don't actually make for any explanation or support of your concerns about waiting hours.

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you really believe all that? Amazing!

I said it and I do. Sit back and be amazed next year.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

As long as Eire and the english attempts to undermine the Good Friday Agreement are involved I will put forth my views. 
 

You signed the WA, you passed it through your brexiteer parliament and you are breaking international law by undermining it. Stop whining and honour your treaty obligations. 

Sorry mate, I can refer to Ireland as much as you can put forth your Brexit views.

 

Stop whining about Boris's overriding of EU tricks about our internal borders.

[Bluespunk]

Ah brexiteers, all for the rule of law except when it means they don't get their way.

 

As for referring to Ireland, that is fine, lying false malicious claims are another matter.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah brexiteers, all for the rule of law except when it means they don't get their way.

 

As for referring to Ireland, that is fine, lying false malicious claims are another matter.

But, but, but, its the Internal Markets Bill - our internal border, our law, our way. 

 

Well don't make them then.

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

But, but, but, its the Internal Markets Bill - our internal border, our law, our way. 

 

Well don't make them then.

You signed the WA. You knew all that it contained. If you didn’t then that is crass incompetence. 
 

Honour the treaty you willingly signed. 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Try reading another book then. Boris got us out of the EU and now is getting us out of a bad trade deal.

It's a revolving door.

So you don't disagree that Johnson has acted in 'bad faith'. Glad we cleared that up.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, puipuitom said:

The EU has chosen ? ? So, the EU is NOT allowed to define where their outer borders are ? ?

Only because N + S Irish want NO HARD border, the EU allowed this border to be in the Irish sea. Signed, approved, ratified and hailed as the superb wisdom of Boris the Liar.

 

I hope the Scots + N Irish get their brains back and decide to form together with Eire the Gaelic Confederation of so, per immediately all EU member state territory. Good sea connections and.. no need to travel though England.

The EU's outer borders are, rather by definition, already defined as the outer limits of its own territory , not splitting the territory of an adjacent country. Yes Boris Johnson, as Prime minister, signed the treaty, but perhaps, just perhaps, he did so in good faith, never imagining that the EU would attempt to use a border in the Irish Sea as a means of dictating and controlling trade between two constituent parts of the United Kingdom; which is what is now becoming a possibility in these vitriolic negotiations, and which these powers, being sought by an elected government in a sovereign parliament are intended to prevent.

 

As for the idea of a "Gaelic Confederation" good luck with that one! The peoples of Nortern Ireland cannot even agree amongst themselves about almost everything, let alone with two very different foreign countries!

 

"No need to travel through England", OK then, let us suppose that I am a small scale maker of Caerphilly cheese ( and jolly nice it is too) in South West Wales. I want to sell it to Edinburgh, so I drive it to Milford Haven, load it onto a ferry to Ireland (or Eire as you like to call it), drive it all the way up through Ireland to Larne in the very north, onto a ferry to Stranraer, then drive it all the way across the widest part of Scotland to my customer in Edinburgh. A sound business plan if I ever heard one!

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by herfiehandbag

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

It will be beneficial for the UK to get out of the transition period without signing our free life away, so No Deal is the best way out, and roll on WTO rules. The EU will quickly come back for a sensible trade deal when their more expensive products are piled up without UK buyers. Our exports to the EU are relatively specialist, so not easily replaced on the cheapo market. Many of our exports are not even goods at all.

Some exports are relatively specialised but there are many others such as Welsh lamb, Dennis trucks, etc which are easily substituted. 

 

A 'no deal' trade deal in goods will almost certainly mean no a 'no equivalence' deal in services, and that really will hurt.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

no payment = no access to the single market 

Are you suggesting that the Europe is to be closed to British goods? That trade with the UK is to be banned, that a blockade with the UK is instituted?

 

I think that the World Trade Organisation may have a view on that (I'll give you a clue, it is not run from Brussels, Berlin or Paris). I think that The Republic of Ireland - a EU country the majority of whose trade is with the UK, and most of the rest of whose trade has to pass through the UK, might just have a view on that. Come to that, much of the rest of the world may be a trifle disconcerted to see the EU (which rightly or wrongly they see as essentially dominated by Germany), flexing it's muscles in such a way, and they may be uncomfortable with that.