Electric Motorbike Any Opinions ?

[cjinchiangrai]

On 9/19/2020 at 7:26 PM, Elik said:

One more thing to consider is the value of a fossil bike 10 years or even 5 years from now, given the rate of improvement on batteries, and the pollution issues in major cities.

In some cities in China there are zero fossil bikes. I don't know if they have been banned or taxed, but its not unreasonable to think Thailand will follow the example.

 

 

In Chinese cities, fossil bikes are banned in the daytime and there are almost none around. I am not even sure if you could buy a new one.

[scammed]

72 V 750 W or more or go home

[guzzi850m2]

This one from Harley looks very very good, expensive though.

 

The tester really liked it and said the best handling HD he ever ridden, quote:

 

It may not be the most powerful or torquey electric motorcycles on the market, but that doesn’t hold it back. It feels super quick, with the most direct and focussed throttle connection of the lot. Pin the right-hand twist-grip to the stop and the LiveWire will hurl you up to 85mph quicker than pretty much anything else with two wheels and a battery.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by guzzi850m2

[owl sees all]

Was gonna get one in March, for daughter. She took it for a test drive/ride.

 

12k baht.

[onebir]

On 9/18/2020 at 3:35 PM, Lacessit said:

I understand the problem with electric cars and presumably electric bikes is the battery life of 8 - 10 years, and the replacement costs can be eye-watering.

There's a lot of battery tech research going on; it's quite likely batteries will be far better/cheaper in 8-10 years.

[onebir]

A friend of mine in China had one of these scooter style scooters (possibly even that model). She loved it. (Except when she forgot to charge it; then she hated it ????)

 

They can do maybe 20km at about 15km/h; fast enough for the breeze to be cooling but not too dangerous (unless ridden stupidly). The standing position makes sun shielding easier & improves visibility. & they weigh ~15kg, so not too difficult to carry up/down stairs, stow in a car boot etc.

[xn47140]

On 10/18/2020 at 5:05 PM, Elik said:

Found a dealer; EV rider in Nonthaburi, where i could test the Deco Super Ace and Sylla. I was expecting sluggish behavior but they have plenty of power for keeping up with the cars. 0-60 in 6 seconds, where the Fino is 7 seconds. 
I’m actually confused by that, because if you divide the kinetic energy at that speed with the motors power it should be 12,5 seconds.

 

Anyway Sylla is taller and has a more comfortable seat, but I bought a super ace. Both feet flat on the ground seems more important for the short trips we will use it for.

 

I’ll get back if I get problems

Would be really nice, if you share your experienc with the Super Ace so far. Thanks so much. 

[Elik]

So far I really like it.

 

I use it for small trips in NW Bangkok, so just 1 steep bridge, and a mix of big and small roads, lots of turns and stop-go, never faster than 70 km/h. I get about 50 km of range. There is a volt meter on the dash, starting at 77.5, I get about 7 km pr volt until 70 volt, then it drops fast.

 

The manual says I should expect 5% drop in range pr year, and a new battery is 25000 or so. I figure new battery tech will be available by the time it’s a problem

 

It charges up to full in 2-3 hours from a standard socket. You cannot take the battery out, need to park by a plug. The smaller Deco models allow you to take the battery out.

 

Do not drive in water deeper than the wheel hub

 

it’s so silent no one hears you coming, so be mindful of that.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Elik

[silicastorm]

Would the Deco Ace be able to be fitted and have enough power with a side saleng? 

 

Speed or normal driving would be between 35-50km/h max.

 

Use in Isaan for back n forth between village and to the farm on flat ground about 4km.

[silicastorm]

Called the Deco dealership in Maha Sarakham and he confirmed a saleng has been in stalled by one of his customers,,,, photo attached below

[KhunLA]

On 4/17/2021 at 10:57 AM, Elik said:

So far I really like it.

 

I use it for small trips in NW Bangkok, so just 1 steep bridge, and a mix of big and small roads, lots of turns and stop-go, never faster than 70 km/h. I get about 50 km of range. There is a volt meter on the dash, starting at 77.5, I get about 7 km pr volt until 70 volt, then it drops fast.

 

The manual says I should expect 5% drop in range pr year, and a new battery is 25000 or so. I figure new battery tech will be available by the time it’s a problem

 

It charges up to full in 2-3 hours from a standard socket. You cannot take the battery out, need to park by a plug. The smaller Deco models allow you to take the battery out.

 

Do not drive in water deeper than the wheel hub

 

it’s so silent no one hears you coming, so be mindful of that.

Thanks, good info about DECO, as been researching, and they seem to be the best on offer.  They sorted the registration.  Wanting the 3000w model: SUSU, as I'm abusive at times, so want the extra speed / distance, though it is priced @ 74k  vs 50ish k for the 2000w versions.

 

25k for battery ????  and guessing a bit more for the 72v50Ah battery.  Actually just waiting for the Hua Hin dealer to get one in.  Going solar at the house, so added plus on overall operating cost.

 

Finding all other brands either under spec'd  or overpriced.

Edited September 26, 2021 by KhunLA

[DowntownAl]

Batter costs for Deco 

[DowntownAl]

More *battery' cost. This one has come down a lot

[eisfeld]

13.5k THB for about 2kWh of energy. That means you need four of these for 57k THB to be able to have a power output of about a Honda Click 125 for just one hour. Battery tech will rapidly improve but we have a way to go before it really makes sense in anything apart from a low powered Scooter. But when it comes, I'll welcome all that instant torque ????

[beddhist]

It exists already, just not here. Check out newzeroland on youtube. He has a Zero and an Energica E-bike. We just need a bit more range and for the Thai govt. to remove the prohibitive import tax. The former is just about here, as for the latter ... I'll just dream on.

 

The govt. has for the first time publicly said they are considering subsidies for EV buyers. As soon as that happens we will buy an ev.

[eisfeld]

I'm happy Zero exists because they are pushing development on but they are not a proper alternative yet imho. Not at the current price + range + charge time levels.

[richard_smith237]

Open source development is the way to go... push the boundaries... 

 

Is there a reason Tesla are not making motorcycles ???

 

Lets face it.. the frame and electric tech is cheap... so why not ?? 

 

Battery power...   Sales of a 100km range batter motorcycle (charged by a wall plug overnight) would be amazing !!!!... 

 

Why not...  ???... because batteries as we know them are pretty crappy..

 

 

[Elik]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:23 AM, silicastorm said:

Would the Deco Ace be able to be fitted and have enough power with a side saleng? 

 

Speed or normal driving would be between 35-50km/h max.

 

Use in Isaan for back n forth between village and to the farm on flat ground about 4km.

 

it is faster at 0-60 than my old Fino, so I would say it would have no problem pulling a sidecar.

 

Last I checked the range, a few months ago, it was still 7 km pr volt, up to 50 km.

 

But mind you I have only driven 2000 km since I got it. The roads here are dangerous for bikes.

 

[Elik]

So just had a problem, the Deco Super Ace would not go. It lights up, but throttle did nothing. I contacted the dealer and he came the same day to pick it up, by night time he fixed it; a rat had chewed a cable. I took a taxi there and drove it home. Bill was 600 thb.

 

I forgot to report that last year it picked up an imbalance in the rear wheel. The dealer sent it to the factory, and they kept it for 3 weeks to fix it. Long time but no bill.

[Elik]

Just had another small issue.

 

On both sides of the rear wheel is a plastic/ gfrp cover. each cover is attached with two bolts, but on both the plastic had crumbled under one of the screws.

 

I filled the cavity with acrylic and bolted it back on. But gotta remember to give it a pull every now and then so if it wants of it will be in the driveway, not the road.

Also in half a mind to remove them.

 

[NumbNut]

Update on the Deco range, they've just released two dual battery models called the G-5 and the Double Ace respectively. Range claimed now to be ~120 km @ 35km/h.

 

The Double Ace appears to be an upgrade of the Super Ace with the new double battery option.

 

Below is the G-5:-

 

 

And this is the Double Ace. Very similar to the Super Ace:-

 

 

Here's a piccy of the dual batteries

 

 

Just been to have a look at the Deco homepage and it looks like the government is now offering a rebate to some Deco models:-

 

 

60640 baht for both the G-5 and the Double Ace, this might stimulate sales a bit!

[seedy]

May well be OK for in city use, but with only 2.5 HP it will be slow.

Wave 125 has 9 HP. Both around 100 Kg

[Henryford]

Isn't the main problem how you charge the battery if you live in a condo or apartment, which many people here do.

[KhunLA]

Finally

Although the one I have, SUSU, is now ฿9,000 (82.9k vs 73.9k) ????

SUSU ... no gov't incentive, or missing from photo.

 

Others, price increase, more to do with the market, as most other e-scooters are more expensive, so up 7-8-9k, then about 9-11k less off 'original/last year's price' with the govt incentive, so still nice pricing.

 

AND ... they are registered / tagged.

 

1000w for less than 29k ... nice

And 1000w models have removable batteries for condo/apartment dwellers.

 

A few new prices, and couple new models.

Last year's prices, w/new ones noted:

Edited December 14, 2022 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

On 9/18/2020 at 7:35 PM, Lacessit said:

I understand the problem with electric cars and presumably electric bikes is the battery life of 8 - 10 years, and the replacement costs can be eye-watering.

 

The problem with most electric bikes is they use heavy Lead Acid batteries, not so in China where they use a Lithium derivative.  Some Chinese bikes are also available with Lithium but they are less price competitive.

 

Look after your Lithium Battery based EV and expect to have over 80% capacity left after 20 years.

Edited December 14, 2022 by JBChiangRai
Typo

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The problem with most electric bikes is they use heavy Lead Acid batteries, not so in China where they use a Lithium derivative.  Some Chinese bikes are also available with Lithium but they are less price competitive.

 

Look after your Lithium Battery based EV and expect to have over 80% capacity left after 20 years.

I have a logical problem with the statement lithium batteries last 20 years.

The fact is there are a number of lithium recycling companies world-wide, Canada alone has 5 of them.

How long have EV's been on the market? Certainly not 20 years. The first Prius was sold in Japan only in 1997, and AFAIK hybrids can still be operated with a non-functioning battery.

 

Said recycling companies did not come into being in the hope of future customers, they are servicing present demand. Which says to me lithium battery lives are shorter than what you claim.

[KhunLA]

44 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The problem with most electric bikes is they use heavy Lead Acid batteries, not so in China where they use a Lithium derivative.  Some Chinese bikes are also available with Lithium but they are less price competitive.

 

Look after your Lithium Battery based EV and expect to have over 80% capacity left after 20 years.

Price will usually dictate type of battery.  Lithium powered usually 2X the Lead Acid offerings.

 

Should be the very first question you ask when shopping.  

These are the usual lead acid batteries used in scooter & mobility scooters.

They're inexpensive, to buy in, BUT, can only run down to 50%, and takes a few to replace a full bank, and lucky if they last a year or so, depending how kind you are to them, and use.

 

IF having a lead acid battery on an already purchased scooter, then you can replace it with a Lithium.  A few YTs showing how to.

[JBChiangRai]

53 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have a logical problem with the statement lithium batteries last 20 years.

The fact is there are a number of lithium recycling companies world-wide, Canada alone has 5 of them.

How long have EV's been on the market? Certainly not 20 years. The first Prius was sold in Japan only in 1997, and AFAIK hybrids can still be operated with a non-functioning battery.

 

Said recycling companies did not come into being in the hope of future customers, they are servicing present demand. Which says to me lithium battery lives are shorter than what you claim.

Someone posted a study a day or so ago of Tesla's, they have 82.5% battery remaining after 18 years equivalent of average mileage.

 

Some early manufacturers of batteries took shortcuts and allowed you to operate between SoC 0% to 100%, nowadays they know better and lock off part of the battery for longevity.  Some hybrid cars are guilty of using all the battery, some PHEV's use too much, but I think most, if not all, BEV manufacturer's have learned the lesson.

 

The best side I can advise you to look at is www.batteryuniversity.com they explain the number of cycles depending on how you charge/discharge them.

 

Let's not confuse battery recycling of mobile phone and laptop batteries, that's where most of the recycling is being done now.

[KhunLA]

Batteries don't have to be 20 yrs old to be tested how long they last.

 

They test how many cycles they have, what the average use / yearly kms will be, and make a practical calculation.

 

If my DECO SUSU battery gets 1500 cycles, and is rated at 120 kms per cycle, then theoretically, I should get 180k kms.  1 year owning, and I drove 3500 kms.  That's my daily driving, say 200+ days a year.

 

Gives my 51+ years of use.  Do I expect, 1500 cycles, maybe, as I do baby it.  Do I get 120 kms per charge, NO.  51 years ... doubtful, but I'd be more than pleased with just half that.

 

Do the same for my solar system & EV, and both will probably out last myself for sure, and probably the wife.  That's about 30 yrs, and might still have some juice left.

 

 

[eisfeld]

@KhunLAwhat's the range you see in reality on your bike?

 

We'll see a lot of improvements on the battery tech in the next 5-10 years, for now they're not good enough for my taste.