'Don’t be afraid' of virus, Trump says as he prepares to leave hospital

[polpott]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Difference being a senior person in government would receive treatment/s currently not funded under universal healthcare arrangements. The 'average' tax payer would not be able to afford treatments not available for 'free'. Whilst Universal Health Care is usually very good in Western Countries, as per usual the privileged / wealthy do have access to a greater degree of care, health care is not equitable for all members of society.

For the UK this doesn't apply. All patients, rich and poor, receive the same treatment. Private hospitals, generally offer a lower standard of treatment than NHS hospitals. For serious conditions private patients are usually treated in NHS hospitals (see Boris Johnson).

 

Only advantages of "going private" in the UK:

 

Queue jumping. You will be seen more quickly.

 

Private room in hospital, although I have been given a private room on more than one occasion as a NHS patient.

 

The treatment is the same.

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, polpott said:

For the UK this doesn't apply. All patients, rich and poor, receive the same treatment. Private hospitals, generally offer a lower standard of treatment than NHS hospitals. For serious conditions private patients are usually treated in NHS hospitals (see Boris Johnson).

 

Only advantages of "going private" in the UK:

 

Queue jumping. You will be seen more quickly.

 

Private room in hospital, although I have been given a private room on more than one occasion as a NHS patient.

 

The treatment is the same.

 

Are you claiming new treatments not currently funded by NHS are available for the general public? Apologies, but I do not believe that is credible info.

Edited October 7, 2020 by simple1

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Are you claiming new treatments not currently funded by NHS are available for the general public? Apologies, but I do not believe that is credible info.

Such as?

[Opl]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Are you claiming new treatments not currently funded by NHS are available for the general public? Apologies, but I do not believe that is credible info.

for the UK, I don't know, but in France, patients can - after additional exams, and their cases discussed in commission be proposed for experimental treatments, compassionate drugs, when usual treatments have failed. It's not a matter of wallet. Non military patients can also be treated in Military hospitals, when they provide cures not yet available elsewhere in the neighborhood, such as immunotherapy. In France, it's also free of charge for the patient, just a small fee for some exams is left to pay.  

So depending on each case, a patient with cancer can benefit of chemo, radioyherapy, immunoptherapy, experimental treatment, in short :  our doctors don't easily give up, it' does not rely on the patient's wealth.    

Edited October 7, 2020 by Opl

[J Town]

On 10/7/2020 at 4:36 PM, JensenZ said:

Does it matter what the rest of the world think? Have you seen the crowds he attracts at campaign rallies. He's more popular than you think, but the Democrats are making it hard for people to come out and admit they like him.

I've seen the divisive vitriol his crowds cheer for. In one word - disgusting!

[RJRS1301]

Just saw a photograph of him post hospital, looks like he 20 years younger no lines, was all for botox as well perhaps??

[spidermike007]

20 hours ago, pookondee said:

I'm not a fan of Trump either,

but since im not American i don't really have any say in it.

 

The one and only thing i care about is getting the world back to some semblance of a normal life..

because this ain't it and what it is now aint worth living in!

 

Im probably selfish here, but getting international travel happening again and being re-united with my Thai life and Thai partner is my number 1 priority.

 

Biden is an old guy.

Hes obviously scared out of his wits with this bogeyman flu, and he seems confused a good deal of the time.

 

I think a vote for Biden is gonna see more lockdowns,

possibly a roll out of worse OTT restrictions, more laws squashing personal freedoms..

Basically, more fear and NO LIFE for the foreseeable future.

 

Its a choice between two duds really, but  

i think Trump has more show of getting things going again.

 

If Biden does win, most likely he will be to terrified to even step foot in Whitehouse with all the nasty traces of Covid,

it will be back in the basement for him.

Just Covid alone is good reason to make sure Trump is evicted from office.

 

The White House had the strength to respond until the Trump administration dismantled the pandemic prevention task force, alienated China, refused to learn from China's and Italy's mistakes, spurned the WHO's testing kit development program in order to produce one of our own that didn't work, took their bloody time establishing virus containment protocols, and waited until the absolute last minute to start producing PPE and ventilators, and then in not enough quantity to go around (and also used every dirty trick in the book to sabotage states' efforts to acquire their own supplies on the open market, possibly because our alleged president thought it was funny).

This is, by the way, an incomplete accounting of the scale and egregiousness of the current Administration's incompetent handling of the crisis, and they're doing it out of malice – you have to actually make an effort to be this bad at your job. That sums up Don Mike. 

[FarangULong]

19 hours ago, heybruce said:

I don't remember a scientist that gave an unqualified prediction of 2+ million deaths.  Please provide a source.

Neil Ferguson of the Imperial College of London (and head of the same institutions' covid-19 response team).

 

He has previously made similar outrageous and sensationalist claims, regarding mad cow disease, bird flu and swine flu.

 

Funnily enough, none of this is mentioned on his wikipedia page (as per usual, being the bastion of truth, that it is...).. that's okay, though, as there are plenty of other sources out there, that don't have mod teams stacked with leftists, who sanitize articles etc...

 

Here you go:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/world/europe/coronavirus-imperial-college-johnson.html

 

Not just that either. Scientists prostitute themselves regularly (ie the professional witnesses for defense&prosecution, where you can get two completely different versions, depending on who paid for them). I'm not saying "All scientists lie." (unlike some, I don't deal in absolutes, or at least I try not to). I'm saying there are plenty of them out there, who will say whatever, in order to make a quick buck, gain some "fame"/notoriety, because nobody gives a sh*t about their publications, work, or they're washed up has beens, etc. Or for personal and/or political motives....

 

 

As for the other, usual mimimimi.

 

Again. The President is not the dictator of 50 States. Why is it, that in Republican dominated states the death toll is so much lower? What was Biden's stance for the longest time on masks etc (until he started changing his tune. He lies about stuff like this ALL the time, claiming he was ALWAYS for/against certain measures - not just on Corona either - once he faces backlash/criticism and/or Trump's doing was proven right, and then even goes ahead and lies/claims "No, I didn't say that. Trump did!" yet is never held accountable, when he does. Is he President? No. But he's a candidate.)

 

Also there is a very clear timeline on Trump's reactions. He did FAR better than plenty of others, ie the UK (herd immunity...). In the beginning NOBODY knew how bad this was going to be.

 

Coronoviras isn't new. COVID-19 (hence the proper term) is a NEW strain. If the Chinese hadn't lied so much, a lot could have been prevented. As soon as it DID become clear, he acted promptly. However it is - again, and I really do not like having to repeat myself - NOT his responsibility, to force measures upon the various states.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/26/coronavirus-death-toll-is-heavily-concentrated-in-democratic-congressional-districts/

 

(the study was done with data collected by the John Hopkins University, and yes, I'm aware it's from earlier this year, but it's still true now, no matter how leftist and left-leaning media tries to paint a different picture, as accepting responsibility is for reactionary fascists, patriarchs and White supremacists, not for progressives, etc...)

 

I briefly considered writing up the timeline of the response to COVID-19 by the Trump administration, but it becomes ever more clear, how wilfully ignorant of the facts many of you are. There is obviously no constructive conversation to be had.

 

Was his response 100% perfect? No, not remotely. Could there have been better ways, overall, to deal with the situation. Of course. But that is true for pretty much every place and leader. It's easy to criticize with 20/20 hindsight.

 

But when you have people so deluded and so full of irrational hatred, it doesn't really matter what you do anyway. They will criticize and nag, no matter what. Personally, I am consoled by the fact that #walkaway numbers are ever increasing (esp. considering, that not everyone will go public about it either), by the ever increasing numbers of not only voters, but elected Democrats at all levels (ranging from mayors to state to federal Congress) speaking out about the Dem Party, and how it has consistently failed to deliver, whereas Trump has delivered, etc.

 

That, and that alone, makes all of this and all of you people so much easier to bear. I cannot wait for November to come. 4 more years of awesome, 4 more years of tears. No matter how much you'll try to cheat with ballots, like Ilhan Omar and her ilk (I tried to post a topic on it, but unfortunately I can't post in World News, and thus the thread was locked in the alt. sub forum I posted in... apparently to the delight of some of you, judging by the reactions to the mod's post...truth hurts, I know ???? ) are doing in MN, you will not win. No matter how the "journos" (fake news purveyors) on your side try to fear monger about possible civil war (yeah, the danger is there, but from your side should you lose again, not from Republicans/non-Democrats/-Communists, unless there is proof of wide scale election fraud), etc.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, FarangULong said:

Neil Ferguson of the Imperial College of London (and head of the same institutions' covid-19 response team).

 

He has previously made similar outrageous and sensationalist claims, regarding mad cow disease, bird flu and swine flu.

 

Funnily enough, none of this is mentioned on his wikipedia page (as per usual, being the bastion of truth, that it is...).. that's okay, though, as there are plenty of other sources out there, that don't have mod teams stacked with leftists, who sanitize articles etc...

 

Here you go:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/world/europe/coronavirus-imperial-college-johnson.html

 

Not just that either. Scientists prostitute themselves regularly (ie the professional witnesses for defense&prosecution, where you can get two completely different versions, depending on who paid for them). I'm not saying "All scientists lie." (unlike some, I don't deal in absolutes, or at least I try not to). I'm saying there are plenty of them out there, who will say whatever, in order to make a quick buck, gain some "fame"/notoriety, because nobody gives a sh*t about their publications, work, or they're washed up has beens, etc. Or for personal and/or political motives....

 

 

As for the other, usual mimimimi.

 

Again. The President is not the dictator of 50 States. Why is it, that in Republican dominated states the death toll is so much lower? What was Biden's stance for the longest time on masks etc (until he started changing his tune. He lies about stuff like this ALL the time, claiming he was ALWAYS for/against certain measures - not just on Corona either - once he faces backlash/criticism and/or Trump's doing was proven right, and then even goes ahead and lies/claims "No, I didn't say that. Trump did!" yet is never held accountable, when he does. Is he President? No. But he's a candidate.)

 

Also there is a very clear timeline on Trump's reactions. He did FAR better than plenty of others, ie the UK (herd immunity...). In the beginning NOBODY knew how bad this was going to be.

 

Coronoviras isn't new. COVID-19 (hence the proper term) is a NEW strain. If the Chinese hadn't lied so much, a lot could have been prevented. As soon as it DID become clear, he acted promptly. However it is - again, and I really do not like having to repeat myself - NOT his responsibility, to force measures upon the various states.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/05/26/coronavirus-death-toll-is-heavily-concentrated-in-democratic-congressional-districts/

 

(the study was done with data collected by the John Hopkins University, and yes, I'm aware it's from earlier this year, but it's still true now, no matter how leftist and left-leaning media tries to paint a different picture, as accepting responsibility is for reactionary fascists, patriarchs and White supremacists, not for progressives, etc...)

 

I briefly considered writing up the timeline of the response to COVID-19 by the Trump administration, but it becomes ever more clear, how wilfully ignorant of the facts many of you are. There is obviously no constructive conversation to be had.

 

Was his response 100% perfect? No, not remotely. Could there have been better ways, overall, to deal with the situation. Of course. But that is true for pretty much every place and leader. It's easy to criticize with 20/20 hindsight.

 

But when you have people so deluded and so full of irrational hatred, it doesn't really matter what you do anyway. They will criticize and nag, no matter what. Personally, I am consoled by the fact that #walkaway numbers are ever increasing (esp. considering, that not everyone will go public about it either), by the ever increasing numbers of not only voters, but elected Democrats at all levels (ranging from mayors to state to federal Congress) speaking out about the Dem Party, and how it has consistently failed to deliver, whereas Trump has delivered, etc.

 

That, and that alone, makes all of this and all of you people so much easier to bear. I cannot wait for November to come. 4 more years of awesome, 4 more years of tears. No matter how much you'll try to cheat with ballots, like Ilhan Omar and her ilk (I tried to post a topic on it, but unfortunately I can't post in World News, and thus the thread was locked in the alt. sub forum I posted in... apparently to the delight of some of you, judging by the reactions to the mod's post...truth hurts, I know ???? ) are doing in MN, you will not win. No matter how the "journos" (fake news purveyors) on your side try to fear monger about possible civil war (yeah, the danger is there, but from your side should you lose again, not from Republicans/non-Democrats/-Communists, unless there is proof of wide scale election fraud), etc.

That was not an unqualified estimate:

 

"The report, which warned that an uncontrolled spread of the disease could cause as many as 510,000 deaths in Britain, triggered a sudden shift in the government’s comparatively relaxed response to the virus."

"American officials said the report, which projected up to 2.2 million deaths in the United States from such a spread, also influenced the White House to strengthen its measures to isolate members of the public."

 

Steps were taken to control the spread of the disease and both the US hand UK have had significantly fewer deaths.  However in the US steps had to be taken by local governments, since the Federal government has done very little since March, and much of what it (Trump) has done has caused confusion about how to prevent the spread of the disease.  Remember how he made wearing masks a political statement?  Imagine how many lives could have been saved if Trump had use the Defense Production Act to mandate greater production of PPE, especially N95 mask, and had been consistent on messaging about using masks.

 

The virus initially entered in large cities in Democrat led states, such as Seattle, New York, and Miami (oops, Florida is Republican led).  Much less was known about the proper treatment and mechanisms of spreading the disease then, so of course the initial outbreaks led to higher casualties.  Currently the top ten states with the highest number of cases per 100,000 citizens are Republican led.  https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases/

 

Democratic led states have learned from experience.  Republican led states, not so much.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/7/2020 at 10:22 PM, heybruce said:

The actual mortality rate won't be worked out for some time, probably years.  However Covid 19 has a mortality rate many times that of the flu.  It also causes long term problems for some, the exact number also won't be worked out for some time.

 

Bottom line:  Don't live in fear but respect the virus and take reasonable precautions to avoid it.  Wearing a mask and social distancing are reasonable precautions.

Want to do that for the rest of your life if the vaccine doesn't work out? IMO it'll be like flu- people will carry on and some, just as with flu, will die. The rest will recover, just like with flu. Some don't even know they are infected till tested.

 

Perhaps there will be a vaccine given the vast amounts of $ that will be going to the company that comes out with the patent.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, FarangULong said:

I briefly considered writing up the timeline of the response to COVID-19 by the Trump administration, but it becomes ever more clear, how wilfully ignorant of the facts many of you are. There is obviously no constructive conversation to be had.

That is certainly true, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/8/2020 at 3:13 PM, J Town said:

I've seen the divisive vitriol his crowds cheer for. In one word - disgusting!

I haven't, but I have seen the vitriol on posts by some on TVF. Ditto.

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Want to do that for the rest of your life if the vaccine doesn't work out? IMO it'll be like flu- people will carry on and some, just as with flu, will die. The rest will recover, just like with flu. Some don't even know they are infected till tested.

 

Perhaps there will be a vaccine given the vast amounts of $ that will be going to the company that comes out with the patent.

Do I want to respect the virus and take reasonable steps to avoid it for the rest of my life?  If the vaccine doesn't work out that's what I plan to do.  I got in the habit or routinely wearing a mask during the burning season in Thailand, I can extend the habit to other places.

[J Town]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I haven't, but I have seen the vitriol on posts by some on TVF. Ditto.

Seriously, you've never seen even a minute of any of 45's rallies?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/8/2020 at 11:34 AM, polpott said:

For the UK this doesn't apply. All patients, rich and poor, receive the same treatment. Private hospitals, generally offer a lower standard of treatment than NHS hospitals. For serious conditions private patients are usually treated in NHS hospitals (see Boris Johnson).

 

Only advantages of "going private" in the UK:

 

Queue jumping. You will be seen more quickly.

 

Private room in hospital, although I have been given a private room on more than one occasion as a NHS patient.

 

The treatment is the same.

As one that worked in an NHS hospital that also treated private patients as outpatients I can say that private patients did get better treatment, because they were always treated by consultants. NHS patients usually had a lower level surgeon, depending on the case. Complicated cases did get a consultant.

 

In my theatre NHS patients were postponed if the list over ran and a consultant had private patients booked in that theatre.

 

I don't know why you think private hospitals offered a lower standard. None of the ones I worked in did.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, J Town said:

Seriously, you've never seen even a minute of any of 45's rallies?

I have, and enjoyed them as much as one can if not there in person. Fox showed them without ad breaks.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Do I want to respect the virus and take reasonable steps to avoid it for the rest of my life?  If the vaccine doesn't work out that's what I plan to do.  I got in the habit or routinely wearing a mask during the burning season in Thailand, I can extend the habit to other places.

Just curious, but did you fear the flu as much? Flu kills too.

[polpott]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As one that worked in an NHS hospital that also treated private patients as outpatients I can say that private patients did get better treatment, because they were always treated by consultants. NHS patients usually had a lower level surgeon, depending on the case. Complicated cases did get a consultant.

 

In my theatre NHS patients were postponed if the list over ran and a consultant had private patients booked in that theatre.

 

I don't know why you think private hospitals offered a lower standard. None of the ones I worked in did.

As someone who's daughter and son-in-law work in a NHS hospital, and as someone who has had a variety of treatments in NHS hospitals, I can assure you that you are talking nonsense. Times have changed.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by polpott

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

As someone who's daughter and son-in-law work in a NHS hospital, and as someone who has had a variety of treatments in NHS hospitals, I can assure you that you are talking nonsense. Times have changed.

 

 

When YOU work in an NHS hospital you can accuse me of talking nonsense. Till then.............................

 

PS I had major surgery at a famous London hospital, and several minor surgeries.

[simple1]

51 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it'll be like flu- people will carry on and some, just as with flu, will die.

I assume you're referring to NZ, as certainly not the case in the US which is the country relevant to the OP. Last full year of reported flu related deaths in US was 30k plus deaths, current calendar year to date in the US, 212k deaths from Covid.

Edited October 9, 2020 by simple1

[polpott]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just curious, but did you fear the flu as much? Flu kills too.

Covid-19 has a much higher mortality rate than flu and is more contagious. But having worked in NHS hospitals, you'd know that, wouldn't you? 555

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, simple1 said:

I assume you're referring to NZ, as certainly not the case in the US which is the country relevant to the OP. Last full year of reported flu related deaths in US was 30k plus deaths, current calendar year to date in the US 212k deaths from Covid.

No, but it would also apply in NZ. Governments can't keep destroying economies for ever.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, polpott said:

Covid-19 has a much higher mortality rate than flu and is more contagious. But having worked in NHS hospitals, you'd know that, wouldn't you? 555

Yes, but what is your point? The Spanish flu killed more and they carried on.

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When YOU work in an NHS hospital you can accuse me of talking nonsense. Till then.............................

 

PS I had major surgery at a famous London hospital, and several minor surgeries.

I have had several major surgeries, all performed by a consultant.

 

My son in law is a doctor currently working in a hospital.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, polpott said:

I have had several major surgeries, all performed by a consultant.

 

My son in law is a doctor currently working in a hospital.

My surgery was also done by a consultant. I knew many doctors working in the NHS.

 

Bye.

[polpott]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, but what is your point? The Spanish flu killed more and they carried on.

It was in answer to your question "Would you fear the flu as much?". I gave reasons why you wouldn't.

[simple1]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No, but it would also apply in NZ. Governments can't keep destroying economies for ever.

So far as i know NZ govt hasn't 'destroyed their economy', nor have any other governments. Government have borrowed to cover the costs for Covid mitigation, some will take decades to pay off the debt; economic pain - Yes - destroyed - No. There are a number of articles talking to the economic impact of Covid. An example...

 

The data shows that there is not a trade-off between deaths and economic growth – rather the two work together. Regardless of restrictions, if people are dying in large numbers your economy is stuffed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/commentisfree/2020/sep/13/regardless-of-covid-restrictions-if-people-are-dying-in-large-numbers-your-economy-is-stuffed

 

I did read the quote following, but cannot link due to paywall, which indicates a cost for saving lives from Covid in NZ.

 

"In NZ New Zealand's hard lockdown policy is thought to have prevented the deaths of 1000 people at a cost of $NZ8.5m ($7.8m) for each year of life"

Edited October 9, 2020 by simple1

[Maestro]

Students rebuke Notre Dame president for not wearing mask at White House

By NICOLE GAUDIANO

10/08/2020 08:16 PM EDT

 

Notre Dame students on Thursday censured their president, Fr. John Jenkins, who tested positive for Covid-19 after appearing without a mask during the White House Rose Garden ceremony for Judge Amy Coney Barrett.

 

The Student Senate passed a resolution formally disapproving of his violations of university health policy, which stresses mask wearing and practicing social distancing.

 

“There must be appropriate consequences for all actions in violation of University policy whether the perpetrator is a member of the student body, faculty, staff, or administration…” the resolution states.

 

Full article: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/08/students-rebuke-notre-dame-president-428208

[Maestro]

.

Quote

 

..Jenkins last week apologized for his behavior, saying he regretted his "error of judgment in not wearing a mask" and that he decided to quarantine "in an abundance of caution." The Student Senate on Oct. 1 voted down a resolution for Jenkins’ resignation, according to The Observer student newspaper.

 

The following day, he announced that he had tested positive for Covid-19...

 

Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/08/students-rebuke-notre-dame-president-428208

 

The above quote means hat Jenkins got his positive Covid-19 test result on October 2.

 

Is there no contact tracing in the USA? In a country with contract tracing, all guests who were at the White House garden party on September 26 would immediately have been ordered to go into self-quarantine for two weeks.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Maestro said:

.

Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/08/students-rebuke-notre-dame-president-428208

 

The above quote means hat Jenkins got his positive Covid-19 test result on October 2.

 

Is there no contact tracing in the USA? In a country with contract tracing, all guests who were at the White House garden party on September 26 would immediately have been ordered to go into self-quarantine for two weeks.

 

White House Hasn’t Asked CDC Investigators for Covid-19 Case Tracking Help

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-hasnt-asked-cdc-investigators-for-covid-19-case-tracking-help-11601932906