Properties For Sale by Banks and Others

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is a good point. Why are there no property auctions here?

They do have almost weekly vehicle auctions in Bangkok, but the last property auction I remember was back in 2002/03. Back then they auctioned off 50-70 units in the same building in a day.

there are auctions every week but they have low profile, a well kept secret. Auction was on a Wednesday in Thepprasit, apparently that has now moved

[Susco]

10 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

There was no great sell off or baht price reductions after the 97 fin crisis, I don't think you are going see any bargins now either. The "need to sell" quickly does not seem to be in the Thai home sellers thought process.

Reason there was no big sell off in 97 is because Asia was in crisis, but not so the west.

Westerns got a big bargain with the huge drop in exchange rate between Baht and western currencies, so however there were no Baht price reductions, there was actually a sell off going on.

 

This time is different, with virtually every economy in the world in big doodoo, and the exchange rates haven't changed much, with the Asian currencies actually got little more expensive over the past 10 months.

[moontang]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Not if one is a buyer..... I optimistically predict beer will be cheaper too.

And the taxes will be higher...more Singapore, less Cambodia....

[Airalee]

5 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is a good point. Why are there no property auctions here?

They do have almost weekly vehicle auctions in Bangkok, but the last property auction I remember was back in 2002/03. Back then they auctioned off 50-70 units in the same building in a day.

I don’t think it’s the fact that there are no auctions but rather what is being auctioned.  For example, you say that the last auction you saw, the bank dumped a huge number of buildings in the same day.  I would be willing to bet that it was one of the less desirable buildings.  
 

Let me use my “grocer” analogy.

 

Lets say a grocer has a lot of bananas to sell.  Some are ripe...bordering on rotten, but still sellable and others are the nice just about ripe ones.   If the grocer puts both groups of bananas out at the same time, people aren’t going to buy the spotted bananas (unless their plan is to make banana bread) and will instead buy the nice bananas leaving the grocer with unsaleable bananas in the end.  So...the grocer offers up the spotty ones and the consumer is never the wiser to the fact that there are much nicer ones waiting in the store room.

 

Now with real estate, from my exhaustive (OCD) study during the US housing bubble (I used to pour through public records for NODs and ownership records), I would see similar actions by the banks.  The less desirable condos, whether it was a less desirable building or a less desirable unit in a better building...those were the ones that would be sold.  The prime units were kept by the banks...some to be sold later when the market recovered...and sometimes even at a huge profit.  I have seen banks sit on prime properties for more than 25 years...both condos and houses.  
 

In Los Angeles, in the neighborhood I grew up in (approximately 10 blocks by 10 blocks with 2 major arterial streets running N/S and 2 running E/W), I would see the notices of default on houses throughout the neighborhood...some where the owner hadn’t made a payment for 5 years or more (due to the amount of the NOD being high in the hundreds of thousands of dollars).  However, where it became interesting is that I ***never*** saw a foreclosure that was sold on the interior streets.  Only on the arterials.  At one point, 3 of the 4 corner houses on one particular arterial intersection were for sale by different banks.  This pattern was repeated over and over.

 

So...the point of my long winded rambling...for whatever reason...the good stuff never seems to be offered up for sale to normal purchasers.  What ultimately happens to them, I have no idea but IMHO, it’s a business decision made by the banks and in the end, the bank always wins.

[AlfHuy]

Soon the advertise will change from:

 

Buy this house and get a free Porsche to:

Buy a Porsche and get a free house.

[ExpatOilWorker]

If you go to Kasikorns realestate site (https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/PropertyForSale)

 

 

 

you get: Sorry, the page is not found.

 

Edit: The Thai version works: https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale

Edited October 17, 2020 by blackcab
Font normalised

[ExpatOilWorker]

Here is an example how out of touch the banks are with reality.

 

Kasikorn is asking 18 million baht for 123 m2 at the 6th floor at CitiSmart at Sukhumvit soi 18.

At hipflat 123 m2 nicely furnished are from 14.9-18 million.

 

Kasikorn: https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=056600525

Hipflat: https://www.hipflat.co.th/projects/citismart-sukhumvit-18-uedpim

[AlfHuy]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Here is an example how out of touch the banks are with reality.

 

Kasikorn is asking 18 million baht for 123 m2 at the 6th floor at CitiSmart at Sukhumvit soi 18.

At hipflat 123 m2 nicely furnished are from 14.9-18 million.

 

Kasikorn: https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=056600525

Hipflat: https://www.hipflat.co.th/projects/citismart-sukhumvit-18-uedpim

You have to pay the bank manager's commission of 2,00.000 baht (service charge)

[ExpatOilWorker]

73 m2 of farang slum at The Trendy Sukhumvit soi 13 being offered for 8.8 million baht.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=058802055

 

Better deals are available: https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/projects/the-trendy-condominium-fzcuhh

[blackcab]

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[Airalee]

38 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Here is an example how out of touch the banks are with reality.

 

Kasikorn is asking 18 million baht for 123 m2 at the 6th floor at CitiSmart at Sukhumvit soi 18.

At hipflat 123 m2 nicely furnished are from 14.9-18 million.

 

Kasikorn: https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=056600525

Hipflat: https://www.hipflat.co.th/projects/citismart-sukhumvit-18-uedpim

Man...the P/E ratios are way out of whack on that condo.  Someone is asking 19 million to purchase and only 50,000 for rent.  That price needs to be halved to be a decent (fair...not great) deal.

 

And what’s with the banks not having any pictures on their listings.  Whoever is trying to sell their REOs isn’t seemingly on the ball.  However...I remember when I would see condos in buildings that I knew quite well during the US bubble.  The condos were quite desirable, yet the pictures taken by the Realtor would be out of focus and would show things like a dirty toilet or something like that.  I believe that this was so that there were no bids (nor interest shown) by the general public and subsequently, the agent could then justify a lowball bid to the bank from a friend.  Kind of a sneaky way to have insider deals.

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

You do have a point there, they need to be given enough money to live on also or otherwise they will not be able to afford maintenance and the condo will be repossessed. 

Most condo's are owned outright by foreigners, with no finance over the property.  

 

We have seen that after the foreigner dies, the Thai girlfriend or wife usually sells the property and moves back home.

 

Leaving behind a property that can't be sold is, as you say, just leaving behind a bill, in the form of fees and taxes, with no actual cash for the surviving spouse to live on.  

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Not if one is a buyer..

I think you will find there are a lot more sellers than buyers at the moment.  

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

I think you will find there are a lot more sellers than buyers at the moment.  

Yes twice as many......

[elliss]

23 hours ago, onebir said:

Not necessarily, if Chinese buyers (for example) end up needing cash to keep businesses going in China. IDK how likely this is.

 

    If / when , the Chinese economy goes down the pan ..

     Would it affect the Thai economy ..?

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, elliss said:

 

    If / when , the Chinese economy goes down the pan ..

     Would it affect the Thai economy ..?

It would certainly affect their aspirations. A lot of big plans had Chinese input, although prior to Covid, Thailand was doing quite well without being fully dependent on them. Their numbers were becoming too big a part of tourism (forsaking all others).

Edited October 17, 2020 by jacko45k

[AlfHuy]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It would certainly affect their aspirations. A lot of big plans had Chinese input, although prior to Covid, Thailand was doing quite well without being fully dependent on them. Their numbers were becoming too big a part of tourism (forsaking all others).

Soon, there is no Thai/Cambodian/Laos/Myanmar-economy because they will all belong to the Chinese .

They will just be some more provinces to the south.

[Mike Teavee]

On 10/17/2020 at 6:53 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

That is a good point. Why are there no property auctions here?

They do have almost weekly vehicle auctions in Bangkok, but the last property auction I remember was back in 2002/03. Back then they auctioned off 50-70 units in the same building in a day.

Do you know where I could find details of the Bangkok auctions (friend of mine is condo hunting in Bangkok around the 6 Million mark) or auctions that cover property in Pattaya/Hua Hin

 

Thx

 

MTV

  

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, AlfHuy said:

Soon, there is no Thai/Cambodian/Laos/Myanmar-economy because they will all belong to the Chinese .

They will just be some more provinces to the south.

The Chinese certainly have the leaders of these countries in their pocket, and when they indebt their tax paying citizens, as they have done elsewhere, they will also have the populations of these countries under in their debt trap.  

[ExpatOilWorker]

Top View Tower on Sukhumvit 59.

96 m2 for 7 million, kind of near market price.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=058802101

[onebir]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:23 AM, scubascuba3 said:

A good time to go to auctions, a friend just picked up a popular condo for around 750k, bargain, resell refurbished 1.5m

Which city was this in? (Looking at the property websites, the selection under 1m in major cities seems really small...)

[onebir]

On 10/17/2020 at 8:30 AM, Airalee said:

for whatever reason...the good stuff never seems to be offered up for sale to normal purchasers.

Possible reasons:

- lower loan-to-value ratios on the 'good stuff', so smaller loan loss provisions required

- banks are more confident 'good stuff' will hold/regain value, so hold it longer

- banks expect the price slump to deepen, so they get rid of the sub prime properties, which are likely to take bigger %age hits first (for the previous 2 reasons)

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

15 minutes ago, onebir said:

Which city was this in? (Looking at the property websites, the selection under 1m in major cities seems really small...)

You can find 55 m2 for just under a million in Pattaya.

13th floor, might even have a good view.

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=058801214

[moontang]

40 minutes ago, onebir said:

Which city was this in? (Looking at the property websites, the selection under 1m in major cities seems really small...)

I noticed the same...CIMB have one condo under a million, and it is a commercial space.  I think people are fantasizing about the auctions, and most have been calling for a crash in the property market for ten years+.  Singapore just had a record September.  The US markets are only limited by a lack of supply, and lumber prices are through the roof..but that only makes resales even more valuable.  The only people I know struggling in the US are in the F & B businesses.  The aviation business became quite nasty three recessions ago, and never truly rebounded.  Defense aerospace has held up well, even with this big wave of peacetime we are experiencing.  Let's see a link to a real property auction, hopefully one that is not a sucker scheme designed to dump unsellable properties.

Edited October 19, 2020 by moontang

[ExpatOilWorker]

38 m2 for 530k baht, again in Pattaya. 

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=058801543

Edited October 19, 2020 by ExpatOilWorker

[moontang]

16 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

38 m2 for 530k baht, again in Pattaya. 

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=058801543

Not bad..could probably rent it for 3000. That is likely something they have had for years, and Patts has always had a decent supply of sub 1000000.  Look at CM or CR...almost nothing up there under a million.  Quite a few under 500k 10 years ago.   I just reached a deal in Wyoming.  55 sm, + full basement, plus detached garage, on 85 wah.  Natural gas for heat, in a town of 35000, with a commercial airport.  998,000 THB.  So much more upside.  The trouble with those condos is half the people want values to decrease, because they are lifelong renters..and they seem to be trying their best to keep them low.  Eventually, the pigs get slaughtered, but they do get their windows of low rent.

Edited October 19, 2020 by moontang

[ExpatOilWorker]

23 minutes ago, moontang said:

Not bad..could probably rent it for 3000. That is likely something they have had for years, and Patts has always had a decent supply of sub 1000000.  Look at CM or CR...almost nothing up there under a million.  Quite a few under 500k 10 years ago.   I just reached a deal in Wyoming.  55 sm, + full basement, plus detached garage, on 85 wah.  Natural gas for heat, in a town of 35000, with a commercial airport.  998,000 THB.  So much more upside.  The trouble with those condos is half the people want values to decrease, because they are lifelong renters..and they seem to be trying their best to keep them low.  Eventually, the pigs get slaughtered, but they do get their windows of low rent.

I agree, Bangkok dominate the sub- million baht market, but 30 m2 is available in Hua Hin for just under a million. 

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=058801769

[moontang]

30 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I agree, Bangkok dominate the sub- million baht market, but 30 m2 is available in Hua Hin for just under a million. 

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/PropertyForSale/property/Pages/detail.aspx?propID=058801769

Good location..likely some beach access down there, but that is some highly valuable land.  It becomes a matter of it being a  toxic property, or not.  Roofs, lifts, etc.  Some of them will have maintenance fees of 300 per month, and you can see the crumbling.  Others have investors come in and save them.  Some things are simply not in your control to change, and that is the aggravating part.  But it isn't quite as simple as just buying a house instead.  100 wah right there could easily be 4 million or quite a bit more.  Fairly nice beach..but don't forget the jetskis and horses..they usually clean up the horse dung, but nothing quite like stepping in a pile, barefoot.  That is an extra nasty bunch of hookers down there, makes me glad to be back in BKK. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by moontang

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, onebir said:

Which city was this in? (Looking at the property websites, the selection under 1m in major cities seems really small...)

Pattaya, I didn't ask him where, it used to be on Thepprasit but moved apparently, maybe someone knows where to

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

I noticed the same...CIMB have one condo under a million, and it is a commercial space.  I think people are fantasizing about the auctions, and most have been calling for a crash in the property market for ten years+.  Singapore just had a record September.  The US markets are only limited by a lack of supply, and lumber prices are through the roof..but that only makes resales even more valuable.  The only people I know struggling in the US are in the F & B businesses.  The aviation business became quite nasty three recessions ago, and never truly rebounded.  Defense aerospace has held up well, even with this big wave of peacetime we are experiencing.  Let's see a link to a real property auction, hopefully one that is not a sucker scheme designed to dump unsellable properties.

The other option is go to visit the condo blocks you like and ask at the office which are for sale, some are a well kept secret, in others they have lots for sale of which many haven't been lived in for years. 

 

Otherwise all you will get is Nirun, Karot 9, Spanish Place, Lalana etc