American expat avoids jail for negative review - reaches settlement with Koh Chang hotel

[DualSportBiker]

2 hours ago, rkidlad said:

What could one take away from this? Write a bad review, get arrested and put in jail, and then apologise and say you were lying. It's still the same message; write a bad review and we'll send you to prison. 

 

 

Maybe you can ignore the false statements he made about slave labour and consider his review an honest critique of services he paid for. Others will see it for what it was; a blatant lie posted 'cause he was upset at being let off a corkage fee that is standard practice.

[DualSportBiker]

2 hours ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

Total 4 reviews you try make it sound like he wrote Hundreds and what was the fake comment exactly I don't get it?

"modern-day slave labour" or do you think that is justified in some way?

[mickymouse1]

3 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

I too have studied dogs. Sometimes they put their tail down. He works here too though. Damn, they are all about 'making a wrong a right.' Petty, in my view.

 

But IMO, it is still a big inconvenience to not be able to bring in me own drink.

Cheap GIT ????

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, DualSportBiker said:

Maybe you can ignore the false statements he made about slave labour and consider his review an honest critique of services he paid for. Others will see it for what it was; a blatant lie posted 'cause he was upset at being let off a corkage fee that is standard practice.

It's not about what I choose to read or ignore. A person being jailed for a bad review is the context many people will take from the story. These people are potential visors to Thailand. 

 

As they say, you don't use a sledgehammer to kill a fly. 

[DualSportBiker]

2 hours ago, rkidlad said:

It was three comments that were published, and criticism of anything is subjective. 

Criticism is subjective. Accusation of using slave labour is an accusation of committing a crime. Slow food service, bad AC, mould on the curtains, warm beer - these are critiques of services paid for an open to subjective criticism. Use slave labour, cheat on taxes, hit customers, steal customers' belongings are accusations of criminal activity and can't be made without proof unless the author wants a formal response from the accused.

[Don Mega]

Well thats disappointing, would have to have read this loud mouth american got put in the slammer for a few years.

 

The cloud may still have a silver lining though and that is hopefully he was sacked from work and his visa cancelled.

[aroiaroi]

Amazing Thailand, enjoy your stay or go to jail.

 

The hotel owner/management, in their breathtaking stupidity, has written, by itself, on the international stage, the worst 1 star review possible.

It's like using a shotgun to kill a mosquito biting your face.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by aroiaroi

[DualSportBiker]

1 minute ago, rkidlad said:

It's not about what I choose to read or ignore. A person being jailed for a bad review is the context many people will take from the story. These people are potential visors to Thailand. 

 

As they say, you don't use a sledgehammer to kill a fly. 

Hopefully most potential visitors here are not as stupid as the muppet-in-question who made accusations of illegal activity, not poor service. If you can't see the difference you are seriously challenged.

[DirtyHarry55]

56 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Yes OK he so compared how the Management treat Staff as to slaves but is it a Lie?

In his opinion that might be truth.
Lots of people working in Hotels complain they are treated like slaves in English we call it a SIMILE or Figure of speech.

[DualSportBiker]

1 minute ago, aroiaroi said:

Amazing Thailand, enjoy your stay or go to jail.

 

The hotel owner/management, in their breathtaking stupidity, has written, by itself, on the international stage, the worst 1 star review possible.

 

 

The only breathtaking stupidity is from people who think accusing a person or a business of criminal and immoral activity is a subjective review of a service or good.

[rkidlad]

3 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

Criticism is subjective. Accusation of using slave labour is an accusation of committing a crime. Slow food service, bad AC, mould on the curtains, warm beer - these are critiques of services paid for an open to subjective criticism. Use slave labour, cheat on taxes, hit customers, steal customers' belongings are accusations of criminal activity and can't be made without proof unless the author wants a formal response from the accused.

So sue him. This is a civil case. Not a criminal one. 

 

How easy would it have been to have a lawyer contact him and keep everything 'civil'.

[DirtyHarry55]

8 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

"modern-day slave labour" or do you think that is justified in some way?

It's a figure of speech and in his opinion maybe true.

[aroiaroi]

6 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

The only breathtaking stupidity is from people who think accusing a person or a business of criminal and immoral activity is a subjective review of a service or good.

You are being over dramatic.

A 1 star review from a disgruntled customer is not even in the same ballpark of stupidity as a kamikaze business decision.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by aroiaroi

[metisdead]

A post using profane acronyms and the replies have been removed removed:

 

8.) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

 

Some troll posts and replies have been removed.

[DualSportBiker]

2 minutes ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

It's a figure of speech and in his opinion maybe true.

The law disagrees with you. It is an accusation of a criminal act like not paying taxes or employing foreign staff (here) without without work permits. There are limits on free speech that are designed to protect people and businesses from damage to their reputation from unsupported accusations. He might also hold the opinion that white table cloths are a call to arms for white supremacists but without any evidence, calling it an opinion expressed because they have some right to express themselves is an excuse.

[DualSportBiker]

8 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

So sue him. This is a civil case. Not a criminal one. 

 

How easy would it have been to have a lawyer contact him and keep everything 'civil'.

That is precisely what they did and he refused to engage with the lawyer. The criminal case was a last resort because he failed to be civil.

[rkidlad]

3 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

Hopefully most potential visitors here are not as stupid as the muppet-in-question who made accusations of illegal activity, not poor service. If you can't see the difference you are seriously challenged.

Sorry, do you think most people who read the headlines will be concerning themselves with what exactly was written?

[Silencer]

1 minute ago, DualSportBiker said:

The law disagrees with you. It is an accusation of a criminal act like not paying taxes or employing foreign staff (here) without without work permits. There are limits on free speech that are designed to protect people and businesses from damage to their reputation from unsupported accusations. He might also hold the opinion that white table cloths are a call to arms for white supremacists but without any evidence, calling it an opinion expressed because they have some right to express themselves is an excuse.

I think THAT is the point, in THAILAND, using the term treated like "modern-day slavery", worked like "slaves", IS treated differently from the West. Thousands of business review on a website like Glassdoor that call companies, managers, CEO's "slave master's", "Hitler", and other damaging names but the reviews remain because it is seen as an expression of opinion. In Thailand, opinions can get you sent to jail.

[aroiaroi]

It's pointless bickering about who is right and wrong. It's a "he said, she said" story, and the customer, with threats of jailtime over him, has been unable to fully defend or explain his position.

But we can look at the outcomes, and it's a lose-lose-lose scenario. The biggest losers are the hotel (the hotel shot themselves) and Thailands tourism industry (collateral damage via the stupidity of the hotel).

[rkidlad]

3 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

That is precisely what they did and he refused to engage with the lawyer. The criminal case was a last resort because he failed to be civil.

So speak to Trip Advisor. The hotel should never have allowed him to spend any time in jail. By perusing this case with the police, they knew this was a possibility. 

[DualSportBiker]

2 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Sorry, do you think most people who read the headlines will be concerning themselves with what exactly was written?

Obviously not. You are proof that reading the headline, the story and understanding it are separate by slovenliness and intelligence.

[DualSportBiker]

1 minute ago, aroiaroi said:

It's pointless bickering about who is right and wrong. It's a "he said, she said" story, and the customer, with threats of jailtime over him, has been unable to fully defend or explain his position.

But we can look at the outcomes, and it's a lose-lose-lose scenario. The biggest losers are the hotel (the hotel shot themselves) and Thailands tourism industry (collateral damage via the stupidity of the hotel).

That is the difference between slander and defamation. A true 'he said, she said' is a verbal exchange. What this guy did was published globally.

[Laughing Gravy]

The whole saga is pathetic. the American and the hotel. The TAT for thinking that they have won the moral high ground along with the hotel owner.

 

They can't see past their own narrow and limited viewpoint. If you can't take criticism don't be on TripAdvisor.

 

To the American who behaved like a wally, you have embarrassed yourself.

The hotel owner the world now knows your mentality. You won't be improving your hotel image for years

The TAT stick to putting out daily nonsense articles that are farcical, as this is a PR stunt that makes those from the west think that Thailand is not a place to visit.

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, DualSportBiker said:

Obviously not. You are proof that reading the headline, the story and understanding it are separate by slovenliness and intelligence.

Thanks.

 

But reality and idealism are rarely the same thing.

 

People will read the headlines. People will be shocked. That will factor in massively whether or not people will chose to come or not. Having someone sent to jail for comments made online isn't right or just. It's ridiculous and people will quite rightly not like it.

 

The idea was to save the hotel's reputation. They made it a hundred times worse. This is what the kids would call an 'epic fail'. 

[DirtyHarry55]

30 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

The law disagrees with you. It is an accusation of a criminal act like not paying taxes or employing foreign staff (here) without without work permits. There are limits on free speech that are designed to protect people and businesses from damage to their reputation from unsupported accusations. He might also hold the opinion that white table cloths are a call to arms for white supremacists but without any evidence, calling it an opinion expressed because they have some right to express themselves is an excuse.

Yes that's true in Thailand it's a Criminal Act which in my opinion is why Online Travel websites should block reviews in Thailand to protect Public, Tourists or at least warn them of the risk of Arrest.
I agree with that about Racism and also Terrorism but this isn't about Racism it's about a Hotel review.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by DirtyHarry55

[Oldie]

Both lost in this story. The American guy and the hotel. But I think the hotel lost much more. For example, I will never stay there after this story. Perhaps I am not the only one. 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Oldie said:

Both lost in this story. The American guy and the hotel. But I think the hotel lost much more. For example, I will never stay there after this story. Perhaps I am not the only one. 

And a number of TVF members have indicated they will stay at this Hotel after this story

[DirtyHarry55]

7 minutes ago, Oldie said:

Both lost in this story. The American guy and the hotel. But I think the hotel lost much more. For example, I will never stay there after this story. Perhaps I am not the only one. 

Yea if you do go make sure to record and collect evidence if you want to write a review.
But even if you collect evidence you'll probably still have to spend a few nights in Jail if you don't have 100k Bail not to mention Lawyer costs.
So probably just better not leave any review at all.

Edited October 9, 2020 by DirtyHarry55

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, rkidlad said:

So he’s trolling. 
 

Whether you agree with the outcome or not, the headlines read that a man was jailed for writing bad reviews of a hotel in Thailand. And that’s all many tourists or potential tourists will take from it. 

 

That in itself is very damaging. The actions of the hotel and police were way over the top and this could have been nipped in the bud far more easily. 

Trolling is what people do on internet forums and I doubt any country has a specific 'anti-trolling' law.

 

If that's all that "many tourists or potential tourists" take from it, they need to educate themselves a bit more and be aware that Thailand has laws and as draconian and inappropriate as some may be, they are still Thailand's laws.

 

The bud nipping initiated by the hotel in Thailand was ignored by the guy repeatedly posting defamatory comments in Thailand.

 

Som nam-nah

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Trolling is what people do on internet forums and I doubt any country has a specific 'anti-trolling' law.

 

If that's all that "many tourists or potential tourists" take from it, they need to educate themselves a bit more and be aware that Thailand has laws and as draconian and inappropriate as some may be, they are still Thailand's laws.

 

The bud nipping initiated by the hotel in Thailand was ignored by the guy repeatedly posting defamatory comments in Thailand.

 

Som nam-nah

They do need to be aware.

 

How about a disclaimer on all travel sites where it states you can be imprisoned for negative reviews of hotels in Thailand. Good idea?