43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I wasn't clapping about the WA and I can't remember who was. Do tell. 

I am sure you weren't clapping.  The whole thing was a farce but not according to Boris!  Just check out the clips from Brussels when the WA was signed.  Boris claiming it was a "great deal" for Britain, hugging Macron and high fiving Barnier and the rest of the crowd.

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

A different event if I remember rightly.

Clock counting down as midnight approached on 1/1/20.

 

Celebrations starting at midnight on 1/1/20.

 

Leave voters mark Brexit with raucous celebrations and boos for pro-EU politicians

 

UK exits European Union with parties across the country

 

What event do you think it was?

 

 

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

A different event if I remember rightly.

An event only made possible by the signing of the WA.

You all loved his deal. A great deal. A fantastic deal. 

Now for some reason you are trying to distance yourself from it.

Why is that?

(So this must be the E.U. version  for  : "The E.U. always go flat belly last moment as they always do ….." ???? ? )  ????

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/15/uk-must-make-necessary-moves-for-brexit-deal-leaked-eu-document
 

 

 

UK must 'make necessary moves' for Brexit deal – leaked EU document 
Leaked communique draft threatens to derail talks as heads of state meet in Brussels 

Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Thu 15 Oct 2020 11.48 BST 

Boris Johnson will be told by the EU’s leaders that the British government alone “will have to make the necessary moves” to make a trade and security agreement possible, according to a leaked draft of a summit communique that threatens to derail the negotiation.

The heads of state and government are meeting in Brussels in a setting known as a European council to debate the way forward on the Brexit negotiations, with the prime minister insisting that he could still walk out on the talks.Johnson has said he will make a decision on Friday, at the end of the two-day EU summit. He is seeking a new round of round-the-clock talks and a commitment to start work on legal text as a price for continuing.

But the EU states do not appear willing to give Johnson an easy ride. A commitment to intensify talks in a first draft of a statement to be issued by the leaders has been deleted from the latest version seen by the Guardian.Under the latest draft, the leaders would instead say that the EU “notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached”.

 

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Edited October 15, 20205 yr by david555

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Clock counting down as midnight approached on 1/1/20.

 

Celebrations starting at midnight on 1/1/20.

 

Leave voters mark Brexit with raucous celebrations and boos for pro-EU politicians

 

UK exits European Union with parties across the country

 

What event do you think it was?

 

 

There is a big difference between celebrating our departure from the EU and saying that the WA is great. The WA enabled us to finally get on with things, but it wasn't perfect.

 

I'm sure Boris knew it wasn't perfect, but he also knew it was the only way to break the deadlock and prevent the remainers from stopping Brexit all together. And as it now appears, he had a plan to tweak it later on anyway. Give that man a cigar! 

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

There is a big difference between celebrating our departure from the EU and saying that the WA is great. The WA enabled us to finally get on with things, but it wasn't perfect.

 I wonder how many of those crowds believed the WA was great; most of them I'm sure. For the simple reason that Boris had been telling them that his oven ready WA was great since his general election campaign!

 

You are now saying that he was lying.

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm sure Boris knew it wasn't perfect, but he also knew it was the only way to break the deadlock and prevent the remainers from stopping Brexit all together. And as it now appears, he had a plan to tweak it later on anyway. Give that man a cigar! 

Please explain how, with Boris' 80 seat majority, Remainers would have been able to block Brexit altogether.

 

 

There was no need for him to lie to us, lie to the EU, lie to the world. 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

If you want people to believe that the EU have been making threats about blockading Northern Ireland you would be more convincing if you produced some evidence of those threats other than a tweet from David Frost!

 

As the Express article says; "the UK is responsible for conducting the checks and controls on goods entering and leaving Northern Ireland." So the EU couldn't blockade Northern Ireland even if they wanted to.

 

But all this is a little out of date. From 23/9/20: UK satisfied EU won’t block food exports after Brexit

 

 

May had agreed a WA with the EU. What took so long was that WA being continually rejected by Parliament. Boris with his 80 seat majority would not have had that problem.

 

Even had they not had their own WA in the background during their plot to oust May, surely if Boris and Cummings are as smart as Brexiteers say they could have prepared their own WA after Boris became PM rather than using May's old one? Even though Boris did proclaim it as his! In fact, Boris asked for, and was granted, an Article 50 extension so he could put the final touches to 'his' WA and get it through Parliament. 

 

But yes, as I said, having agreed to three previous extensions I'm sure the EU would have agreed to another.

 

The electorate? It's not them Boris has to worry about; he'll be long gone by December 2014; his party will make sure of that.

Missing the points:

 

Frost's comment was about another comment from the EU side. The threat was not given in writing, which seems the most likely way for it to be delivered. I believe Frost. It doesn't matter what the Express said afterwards.

 

And anyone could prepare an alternate WA but it would still take years more to be agreed by the EU. If ever. 

13 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I wonder how many of those crowds believed the WA was great; most of them I'm sure. For the simple reason that Boris had been telling them that his oven ready WA was great since his general election campaign!

 

You are now saying that he was lying.

Please explain how, with Boris' 80 seat majority, Remainers would have been able to block Brexit altogether.

 

 

There was no need for him to lie to us, lie to the EU, lie to the world. 

I think you have your timeline all mixed up. Parliament was in stalemate, remainers were going all out to block Brexit, then Boris got the WA sorted, then he called the election, then he got the 80 seat majority. 

Remember now? 

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Clock counting down as midnight approached on 1/1/20.

 

Celebrations starting at midnight on 1/1/20.

 

Leave voters mark Brexit with raucous celebrations and boos for pro-EU politicians

 

UK exits European Union with parties across the country

 

What event do you think it was?

 

 

That was Brexit. Hurrah. But not the WA.

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

An event only made possible by the signing of the WA.

You all loved his deal. A great deal. A fantastic deal. 

Now for some reason you are trying to distance yourself from it.

Why is that?

I said that the WA was bad at the time. But leaving feels so good!

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I wonder how many of those crowds believed the WA was great; most of them I'm sure. For the simple reason that Boris had been telling them that his oven ready WA was great since his general election campaign!

 

You are now saying that he was lying.

Please explain how, with Boris' 80 seat majority, Remainers would have been able to block Brexit altogether.

 

 

There was no need for him to lie to us, lie to the EU, lie to the world. 

If you want to know what 'crowds' think then why not talk to them directly?

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Missing the points:

 

Frost's comment was about another comment from the EU side. The threat was not given in writing, which seems the most likely way for it to be delivered. I believe Frost. It doesn't matter what the Express said afterwards.

So you admit that we have Frost's word, and Frost's word only, for it. 

 

Odd how the Brexiteer bible becomes irrelevant when it doesn't support you!

 

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

And anyone could prepare an alternate WA but it would still take years more to be agreed by the EU. If ever. 

Well, they agreed May's fairly quickly and Boris' even quicker.

 

Remember, we would have left at the end of the Article 50 notice period on the 31st March 2019 with a WA had not Boris, Rees-Mogg (whatever happened to him; he's been very quiet since his Grenfell faux pas!) and the ERG blocked it.

 

But you could be right; after all in the EU's position I'd be inclined to wonder how many more attempts at agreeing a WA amongst ourselves we wanted. Parliament rejected May's three times, and now Boris is saying that his own much self-praised oven ready one is no good!

 

I'm surprised at the patience they've shown us so far; after all, we need them a lot more than they need us.

 

38 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think you have your timeline all mixed up. Parliament was in stalemate, remainers were going all out to block Brexit, then Boris got the WA sorted, then he called the election, then he got the 80 seat majority. 

Remember now? 

 

Thanks for the reminder; but as you have merely paraphrased what I said; it was unnecessary!

 

If May's WA had been accepted by Parliament then we would have left the EU on the 31st March 2019.

 

But your Brexiteers called May a Remainer and her WA BRINO.

 

That doesn't make sense; a Remainer's BRINO deal being blocked by a Remainer Parliament!

 

But my post was in response to you saying that Boris had to lie in his WA to prevent a Remainer Parliament blocking it. Whatever one may think of the last Parliament, I don't think anyone can call this one Remainer!

 

No need for him to lie. Even if there were, do you really think lying to the country, lying to an international treaty's cosignatory and lying to the whole world to be the actions of an honourable man? 

 

Even in the dirty game of politics there are limits!

 

Edited October 15, 20205 yr by 7by7
Addendum

37 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That was Brexit. Hurrah. But not the WA.

So you know what the crowds were thinking and their reason for celebrating?

34 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If you want to know what 'crowds' think then why not talk to them directly?

Did you?

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

If you want to know what 'crowds' think then why not talk to them directly?

You should know by now that Remainers don't need to ask what Leavers are thinking, cos they already know everything we think.

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

I'm sure Boris knew it wasn't perfect, but he also knew it was the only way to break the deadlock and prevent the remainers from stopping Brexit all together. And as it now appears, he had a plan to tweak it later on anyway. Give that man a cigar! 

And so we come full circle re the WA/ IMB fiasco. If you are correct, then Johnson never had any intention of keeping to the WA, and the UK is guilty of the very charge that Johnson tries to lay at the feet of the EU i.e. the UK have conducted the trade negotiations in 'bad faith'.

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

So you admit that we have Frost's word, and Frost's word only, for it. 

 

Odd how the Brexiteer bible becomes irrelevant when it doesn't support you!

 

Well, they agreed May's fairly quickly and Boris' even quicker.

 

Remember, we would have left at the end of the Article 50 notice period on the 31st March 2019 with a WA had not Boris, Rees-Mogg (whatever happened to him; he's been very quiet since his Grenfell faux pas!) and the ERG blocked it.

 

But you could be right; after all in the EU's position I'd be inclined to wonder how many more attempts at agreeing a WA amongst ourselves we wanted. Parliament rejected May's three times, and now Boris is saying that his own much self-praised oven ready one is no good!

 

I'm surprised at the patience they've shown us so far; after all, we need them a lot more than they need us.

 

If he had lied do you think that there would have not been more indignant reaction from the EU? Why would Frost risk a lie?

 

Yes, let's hope the EU loses patience. They seem to be losing patience amongst themselves at the moment so why not?

4 hours ago, dunroaming said:

I am sure you weren't clapping.  The whole thing was a farce but not according to Boris!  Just check out the clips from Brussels when the WA was signed.  Boris claiming it was a "great deal" for Britain, hugging Macron and high fiving Barnier and the rest of the crowd.

Well the last line wraps it up - Nightmare on Elm Street ...... and I scare easy.

Edited October 15, 20205 yr by nauseus

On 10/14/2020 at 9:49 PM, Loiner said:

Well they have run out of time now and there is no movement on fish. What makes them think a few more weeks will make any difference?

 "...the bottom line is that the UK is not willing to pay Europe's asking price." sums all it up really, so why keep going through the motions?

 

This cannot about garnering another year of contributions because the cash cow has left the building. It will still be the EU's fault when the extended talks fail again.

What are they going to tell each other at their summit, when there's still no capitulation by Boris?

Even now, after millions of words of unsubstantiated sound bites,  you still have no idea of the difference in scale of the EU and U.K. GDP. 
 

With all the information at their fingertips it’s baffling how the Brexiteers can be so clueless !!
 

 

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Personally I would have preferred No Deal last year before we signed May's awful withdrawal agreement, but hopefully Boris won't bottle it and we can finally escape the greasy tentacles of the corrupt protectionist racket at the end of the year. 

Deadline passed - bottled it! 

4 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

Even now, after millions of words of unsubstantiated sound bites,  you still have no idea of the difference in scale of the EU and U.K. GDP. 
 

With all the information at their fingertips it’s baffling how the Brexiteers can be so clueless !!
 

 

Difference in scale of the EU and UK GDP?

I'll clue ya - I simply don't care. Does that baffle you even more?

 

15 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

We didn't sign Mays deal. Johnson signed HIS oven ready deal. His great deal. His fantastic deal.

You really think Boris could work out how to turn an oven on ?? 

24 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

Even now, after millions of words of unsubstantiated sound bites,  you still have no idea of the difference in scale of the EU and U.K. GDP. 
 

With all the information at their fingertips it’s baffling how the Brexiteers can be so clueless !!
 

 

It's more baffling how some people think we should capitulate to the EU. Perhaps those people need to grow some ????

EU communique: Looks like Reuters were spot on this time. Make of it what you will.

 

56 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

It's more baffling how some people think we should capitulate to the EU. Perhaps those people need to grow some ????

More intellectual input from the brexiteer camp!

 

Capitulate how ? You realise even if we got our own way on the fishing (which trust me Bojo WILL back down on) just how much we sell to the ....wait for it ...... EU !! 
 

So what are we capitulating on ? - fully costed specifics would be good 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Difference in scale of the EU and UK GDP?

I'll clue ya - I simply don't care. Does that baffle you even more?

 

“I’ll clue ya” ???? 

 

Then no clearer evidence you never had the slightest idea what you were voting for and yet claim you know what’s best for the U.K. without any economic comprehension whatsoever! 
 

So funny 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

It was a brief comment. Not a reply. But for some, working that out probably requires a modicum of comprehension.

Know when to stop digging 

"EU leaders have offered Boris Johnson a two-week extension to Brexit negotiations, with Michel Barnier saying that “we shall remain available until the last possible day” to strike a deal.

It leaves Mr Johnson to decide whether to walk away, which would trigger a no-deal Brexit."

xxxxxx  xxxxxxxx  xxxxx

 

I am surprised about the firmness/attitude of the E.U.. Especially the use of the words " we shall remain available". 

Seems like : It's up to you U.K.; we E.U. are ready for whatever. 

 

 

I suppose now the only thing Mr. Johnson can do, is leave without a deal. 

 

To his credit we can say that he tried, tried again, and again. 

 

The simple words "we shall remain available" gives another dimension/interpretation to the U.K.'s "non-deal Brexit".

 

It is no more a power/strength expression, but rather  a constrain/irremediability now.

9 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

There is a big difference between celebrating our departure from the EU and saying that the WA is great. The WA enabled us to finally get on with things, but it wasn't perfect.

 

I'm sure Boris knew it wasn't perfect, but he also knew it was the only way to break the deadlock and prevent the remainers from stopping Brexit all together. And as it now appears, he had a plan to tweak it later on anyway. Give that man a cigar! 

I just new that your post, whilst probably an  accurate summary of Johnson's position would provoke outpourings of frothy mouthed outrage!

 

As someone said, politics are a dirty business, and the dirtiest part comes when you try to ignore the results of the ballot box, be they from a referendum or (two) general elections.

15 hours ago, david555 said:

(So this must be the E.U. version  for  : "The E.U. always go flat belly last moment as they always do ….." ???? ? )  ????

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/15/uk-must-make-necessary-moves-for-brexit-deal-leaked-eu-document
 

 

 

UK must 'make necessary moves' for Brexit deal – leaked EU document 
Leaked communique draft threatens to derail talks as heads of state meet in Brussels 

Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Thu 15 Oct 2020 11.48 BST 

Boris Johnson will be told by the EU’s leaders that the British government alone “will have to make the necessary moves” to make a trade and security agreement possible, according to a leaked draft of a summit communique that threatens to derail the negotiation.

The heads of state and government are meeting in Brussels in a setting known as a European council to debate the way forward on the Brexit negotiations, with the prime minister insisting that he could still walk out on the talks.Johnson has said he will make a decision on Friday, at the end of the two-day EU summit. He is seeking a new round of round-the-clock talks and a commitment to start work on legal text as a price for continuing.

But the EU states do not appear willing to give Johnson an easy ride. A commitment to intensify talks in a first draft of a statement to be issued by the leaders has been deleted from the latest version seen by the Guardian.Under the latest draft, the leaders would instead say that the EU “notes with concern that progress on the key issues of interest to the union is still not sufficient for an agreement to be reached”.

 

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