Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Then start your own thread to discuss it....

Now back on topic.....????

Stop using it and I'll stop discussing it. Deal?

[Susco]

24 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

It's called escalator language....and it is designed solely to needle you (regardless of what they might argue).

 

Ignore their posts if they persist.

 

I do agree.

 

One of both has been on my ignore list for quite a while already, since he does it in every thread he's involved on whatever sub forum, while the second one is on his way to the list

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

 

As you know, we already incorporate REACH legislation into our systems so I do not understand why we have to change it. ALl that is needed is for companies to keep up with EU policy changes if they are to continue trading.

Indeed

 

Launching a separate REACH system for the UK is just nonsense and it cannot be done whatever politicians in power today in the UK pretend. It just cannot be done. 

 

Maybe you watched the sequence when the enquiry of the Environment Sub-Committee discuss the consequences for Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland remains within the UE REACH system so one question was "should we move our chemical industry to northern ireland" ? 

 

 

 

If you ask me, I have no problem giving the brits access to the wealth of databases and standard produced by the UE Agencies, but I would definitely oppose giving them a "free ride", i.e. using it without paying the just price. I would also refuse to give the UK any power to block or jam our processes like they sometimes did in the past. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

The Government hasn't slammed the door, merely left it ajar.

On the European agencies, AFAIK, the brits want more to set up their own systems (calling it like "freedom from slavery"), although they absolutely cannot do without some of them mostly European Aviation Safety Agency and Euratom Supply Agency

 

...the "left it ajar" thing is Gove backpedaling yesterday on the inevitable continuation of negociations, in line with the theatrical "Brexit deadlines" these last years

Edited October 19, 2020 by Hi from France

[darksidedog]

Most of the last three pages have been removed, a process that took considerable time and effort.

I could easily waste the next two hours dishing out warnings for the off topic, trolling and insult trading that has been going on.

Quit it NOW and stay on topic, without the personal comments.

[Tofer]

13 hours ago, RayC said:

A case which went to the WTO and where Airbus has respected the decision against it.

https://www.ft.com/content/20b407e6-e910-4a3c-b3db-a0e1360f9203

 

And why not? It is the EU single market. An EU company/ state operating in the UK would be judged according to UK law.

Exactly. We're not a state in the EU anymore, or had that slipped your notice.

[david555]

15 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Exactly. We're not a state in the EU anymore, or had that slipped your notice.

Exactly .you are not... , and that is why E.U. make his own rules to give out whatever they agree or not agree on to a non member ....just the same as your side is intitled to...fair enough i would say ...or not ?

Edited October 19, 2020 by david555

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Indeed

 

Launching a separate REACH system for the UK is just nonsense and it cannot be done whatever politicians in power today in the UK pretend. It just cannot be done. 

 

Maybe you watched the sequence when the enquiry of the Environment Sub-Committee discuss the consequences for Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland remains within the UE REACH system so one question was "should we move our chemical industry to northern ireland" ? 

 

 

 

If you ask me, I have no problem giving the brits access to the wealth of databases and standard produced by the UE Agencies, but I would definitely oppose giving them a "free ride", i.e. using it without paying the just price. I would also refuse to give the UK any power to block or jam our processes like they sometimes did in the past. 

What is the just price for the UK to use REACH? The UK jointly invested in this and led the way on many other health and safety regulations, which the EU eventually decided they should adopt, modify and then claim as their own. Another example of EU grasping to promote its own false image.

[Tofer]

12 minutes ago, david555 said:

Exactly .you are not... and that is why E.U. make his own rules to give out whatever they agree or not agree on to a non member ....just the same as your side is intitled...fair enough i would say ...or not ?

You can set whatever rules you wish in a negotiated trade agreement, then it's up to the parties to agree or otherwise. HOWEVER, you cannot DEMAND control of our governance, EUCJ jurisdiction and continued free access to territorial waters from an independent (non EU) sovereign nation.

 

Common sense - or not?

Edited October 19, 2020 by Tofer

[david555]

2 minutes ago, Tofer said:

You can set whatever rules you wish in a negotiated trade agreement, then it's up to the parties to agree or otherwise. HOWEVER, you cannot DEMAND control of our governance, EUCJ jurisdiction and continued free access to territorial waters from an independent (non EU) sovereign nation.

 

Simpel answer is just to leave if not agree on it ....not that difficult i would say , if not like it, now it looks like U.K. is forcing a deal out of E.U. they can not agree on .....consequenses why a "divorce "is done !!

Understand your side , so also understand also our side

 

....conclusion as it stands now (and 4 years already )....no deal seems the only possible outcome !!!

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tofer]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Simpel answer is just to leave if not agree on it ....not that difficult i would say , if not like it, now it looks like U.K. is forcing a deal out of E.U. they can not agree on .....consequenses why a "divorce "is done !!

Understand your side , so also understand also our side

 

....conclusion as it stands now (and 4 years already )....no deal seems the only possible outcome !!!

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another obscure response, that doesn't address the question, i.e. that's not an answer, it's just pontificating.

 

Let me try and put it more simply.

 

1). How do you justify demanding control of rules, laws and territorial waters of an independent country?

 

2). Which other country has the EU imposed such conditions on in their trade agreements. 

[sandyf]

No deal, no problem.

 

Britain’s pharmaceutical industry is appealing to Boris Johnson to strike a swift side-deal with Brussels to avoid delays and shortages of medicines if he crashes the UK out of the EU in a no-deal Brexit at the end of this year.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/abpi-pharmaceutical-medicines-brexit-boris-johnson-b1080311.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=INDNEWS%2319102020&utm_term=IND_Headlines_Masterlist_CDP

[sandyf]

Why would there be any unanswered questions when people knew exactly what they were voting for? The UK would be out but still get the benefits of being in, all very easy.

 

More businesses will undoubtedly step up preparations for change over the coming weeks, but many are still facing unanswered Brexit questions that have a big impact on their day to day operations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-boris-johnson-business-eu-trade-b1136689.html

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

No deal, no problem.

 

Britain’s pharmaceutical industry is appealing to Boris Johnson to strike a swift side-deal with Brussels to avoid delays and shortages of medicines if he crashes the UK out of the EU in a no-deal Brexit at the end of this year.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/abpi-pharmaceutical-medicines-brexit-boris-johnson-b1080311.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=INDNEWS%2319102020&utm_term=IND_Headlines_Masterlist_CDP

Good to see you finally found Project Fear at the back of the cupboard and dusted the cobwebs off for another round of fear mongering.

 

Sounds like another one of those "Super Gonorrhea" stories.????

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

What is the just price for the UK to use REACH? The UK jointly invested in this and led the way on many other health and safety regulations, which the EU eventually decided they should adopt, modify and then claim as their own. Another example of EU grasping to promote its own false image.

The first part is certainly true "the UK jointly invested in this"... and the rest is just the usual "evil empire" talk. 

 

I think it was a huge blunder to leave the EU, and sticking to your "evil empire", "project fear", "take back control" rhetoric does not help getting a clear vision of what the UK should do next.

 

Brexit in itself was a very very bad idea based on false premises. 

 

Now what is done is done: the UK is out and cannot go back in anytime soon.

 

 

 

Now, if at least this stupid Brexit idea had been implemented by the witty and clever british people I used to know, the country could have somehow controlled the damage.

 

 

Right now this is just a mess, and complaining and repeating the same slogans over and over is not in any way a solution. You know, we used to define (with much admiration) the brits as no-nosense, down-to-earth, efficient, pragmatic people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

Exactly. We're not a state in the EU anymore, or had that slipped your notice.

No, it hadn't slipped my mind but it appears to slip yours when convenient. Here's my reply in its original context before your selective editing. 

 

 

  2 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

The EU are not looking for agreement on conditions, they are insisting on control of the mechanisms and EUCJ jurisdiction. Not quite the same thing as you assert....

And why not? It is the EU single market. An EU company/ state operating in the UK would be judged according to UK law.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

 

Let me try and put it more simply.

 

1). How do you justify demanding control of rules, laws and territorial waters of an independent country?

How is the EU "demanding control of rules, laws and territorial waters of   < the UK>?"

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

 

2). Which other country has the EU imposed such conditions on in their trade agreements. 

Reversing the argument, why is the UK "imposing" greater control re state aid compared to our deal with Japan?https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Most of the last three pages have been removed, a process that took considerable time and effort.

I could easily waste the next two hours dishing out warnings for the off topic, trolling and insult trading that has been going on.

Quit it NOW and stay on topic, without the personal comments.

 

timely remark, indeed

 

dunno darksidedog, but mebbee you would have a brighter future as Brexit deal moderator than TVF moderator

 

[transam]

42 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

The first part is certainly true "the UK jointly invested in this"... and the rest is just the usual "evil empire" talk. 

 

I think it was a huge blunder to leave the EU, and sticking to your "evil empire", "project fear", "take back control" rhetoric does not help getting a clear vision of what the UK should do next.

 

Brexit in itself was a very very bad idea based on false premises. 

 

Now what is done is done: the UK is out and cannot go back in anytime soon.

 

 

 

Now, if at least this stupid Brexit idea had been implemented by the witty and clever british people I used to know, the country could have somehow controlled the damage.

 

 

Right now this is just a mess, and complaining and repeating the same slogans over and over is not in any way a solution. You know, we used to define (with much admiration) the brits as no-nosense, down-to-earth, efficient, pragmatic people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is it you EU apron string hangers keep blaming the British for what they want to do. It is so tiresome.

Yes, you for once got something right, we are no-nonsense people, that's why it looks like we are walking.

[david555]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

Another obscure response, that doesn't address the question, i.e. that's not an answer, it's just pontificating.

 

Let me try and put it more simply.

 

1). How do you justify demanding control of rules, laws and territorial waters of an independent country?

 

2). Which other country has the EU imposed such conditions on in their trade agreements. 

Guy....if is not possible ...then it is not possible between U.K. and E.U....! Why you do not understand that and accept the fact for both ....

 

Independance you have ...you left ...so that is it .

End line.

[Hi from France]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

Why is it you EU apron string hangers keep blaming the British for what they want to do. It is so tiresome.

Yes, you for once got something right, we are no-nonsense people, that's why it looks like we are walking.

your country has already walked out, what's done is done, you can blame all you want, but you have no more say in UE policy that I have in british policy.

 

now no-nonsense could start with comparing what was promised to you four years ago and what you have now.

 

let's be down-to-earth and pragmatic, can you recognize these politician and pragmatically tell me if as of today, you still believe what they promised?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Hi from France

[nauseus]

57 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

The first part is certainly true "the UK jointly invested in this"... and the rest is just the usual "evil empire" talk. 

 

I think it was a huge blunder to leave the EU, and sticking to your "evil empire", "project fear", "take back control" rhetoric does not help getting a clear vision of what the UK should do next.

 

Brexit in itself was a very very bad idea based on false premises. 

 

Now what is done is done: the UK is out and cannot go back in anytime soon.

 

 

 

Now, if at least this stupid Brexit idea had been implemented by the witty and clever british people I used to know, the country could have somehow controlled the damage.

 

 

Right now this is just a mess, and complaining and repeating the same slogans over and over is not in any way a solution. You know, we used to define (with much admiration) the brits as no-nosense, down-to-earth, efficient, pragmatic people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you mean no nonsense - yes - that's why the EU has finally been rejected.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, david555 said:

Guy....if is not possible ...then it is not possible between U.K. and E.U....! Why you do not understand that and accept the fact for both ....

 

Independance you have ...you left ...so that is it .

End line.

Brussels is no too far from you is it? Maybe you could pass that message on? They might believe you.

[david555]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If you mean no nonsense - yes - that's why the EU has finally been rejected.

And for me i accept that comment ...can you please leave the E.U. doorstep now finally where standing to try to get whatever you want ....

 

I am in favor for your no deal  "sweeter named " Australia deal .This soap has to end ....

[Hi from France]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

If you mean no nonsense - yes - that's why the EU has finally been rejected.

the UE has been indeed rejected, there is no discussion there, it's done

 

 

now again please tell me more about what was promised to you. You now have had four years to check the promises made, let's be "no nonsense"

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

your country has already walked out, what's done is done, you can blame all you want, but you have no more say in UE policy that I have in british policy.

 

now no-nonsense could start with comparing what was promised to you four years ago and what you have now.

 

let's be down-to-earth and pragmatic, can you recognize these politician and pragmatically tell me if as of today, you still believe what they promised?

 

 

 

 

We don't care, you do, you can't stop telling us stuff. And you ain't (I hope) using our waters unless we say so, well I wouldn't want Nelson turning in his grave.....

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

your country has already walked out, what's done is done

 

now no-nonsense could start with comparing what was promised to you four years ago and what you have now.

 

let's be down-to-earth and pragmatic, can you recognize these politician and pragmatically tell me if as of today, you still believe what they promised?

 

 

 

 

The above quotes were made by people who wrongly assumed that there would be a large splash of goodwill in the mix. Two 'cans' and a 'should' plus Davis is yet to be proved wrong.

[transam]

13 minutes ago, david555 said:

Guy....if is not possible ...then it is not possible between U.K. and E.U....! Why you do not understand that and accept the fact for both ....

 

Independance you have ...you left ...so that is it .

End line.

Great, then you can stop posting and worry more about your new EU taxes... eh................????

[david555]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Brussels is no too far from you is it? Maybe you could pass that message on? They might believe you.

I think they now that already by now ....they seem to take legall precautions to be prepared for talks ....untill the limit day is crossed and then to stop .

 

I hope same thing for your folks in number 10 so they move from Brussels doorstep ....in a divorce you must accept it is finished .

[RayC]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The above quotes were made by people who wrongly assumed that there would be a large splash of goodwill in the mix. Two 'cans' and a 'should' plus Davis is yet to be proved wrong.

That new - soon to be old - chestnut about 'goodwill'.

 

It still doesn't explain how - given that the UK "holds all the cards" - we have managed to find ourselves in this pickle.

[david555]

37 minutes ago, transam said:

Great, then you can stop posting and worry more about your new EU taxes... eh................????

Why should i stop ...? About taxes ....oh you Brits must not pay taxes ...lovely planet it must be .

I only try make it clear both sides will not give in .

Let  full brexit happen ...let both get the bruises or go to pieces ....that is the only solution ....remember in any not decided who won war , the peace treaty start when counting the losses...!

The time convincing eachother from their wrong is ...over ...it is a draw who took 4 years .No solution is possible ...to much both in trenches . But maybe that is very difficult for Albion to understand....

 

The battle of Brexit is a draw..

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by david555