Bangkok-Nong Khai high-speed rail contract inked with China

[pegman]

36 minutes ago, Grumpy John said:

I always took the point of view "What's in it for the Thai people?"  I mean the masses not just the well healed at the top.

 

State Rail may be flawed as an organisation but they get you there even if it's slower.  220 baht from the Malaysian border to Bangkok.  If somchai rode his Wave the same trip would cost 600 baht in benzine and take just as long!

 

And the 64.000 baht question:  Will it ever make a profit?   As a passenger only service that will be a tough job!

 

We can only hope that it will be safe for all that do travel on the trains.  

That is an easy question to answer. Nearly no passenger service railways make money without public subsidies. They exist as a public service. As for whether it will help an ordinary noddle seller somewhere the same could have been said about the MRT, BTS lines or Swampy. These types of projects are meant to progress a city or country's economic progress. I think most people using the service won't be going to China or Singapore but within Thailand a couple of stations or so. Say Bang Sue to Korat. As for safety these rail line run in viaducts and are a heck of a lot safer than Thai highways that are known for their mayhem. There are no grade crossings. 

[The Farang]

On 10/28/2020 at 5:07 PM, pegman said:

Subs are on hold and the fast train network will provide 1,000's of needed jobs. As long as Thai labour is used rather than cheap migrants. 

Ya, in the far future, but in the now people are struggling and dying.  And not every Thai person would even be able to get those jobs.  The ones who couldn't afford to pay for school.  Or if they are too old (over 30), will likely not get those jobs either.  

[The Farang]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:59 PM, pegman said:

Sure seems like a lot of envy from the Americans and English. Anything to do with they themselves not getting any fast train networks built themselves?

Americans don't care about fast trains.  Most people have cars or can fly to where they need to go because everything is too spread out. Not only that, Elon Musk is building underground Hyperloop s everywhere which should be completed shortly.  In a country like Japan or China where the majority commute by foot then train, having a high speed rail is critical.

[rickudon]

Hyperloop is still a technology in waiting. Apart from a couple of 'demonstration' projects, not going to happen before 2050. 

 

Reminds me of the Maglev line running at Birmingham airport from 1984 - one of the first commercial lines. Quietly scrapped 10 years later.

[The Farang]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

Hyperloop is still a technology in waiting. Apart from a couple of 'demonstration' projects, not going to happen before 2050. 

 

Reminds me of the Maglev line running at Birmingham airport from 1984 - one of the first commercial lines. Quietly scrapped 10 years later.

The first Hyperloop will be finished this year in Las Vegas :).  Construction is almost finished.

[rickudon]

35 minutes ago, The Farang said:

The first Hyperloop will be finished this year in Las Vegas :).  Construction is almost finished.

This not a genuine Hyperloop system - not using vacuum technology. It is just a tunnel using high speed electric vehicles, running at up to 150 mph and is one mile long. It is a testbed, like the one was at Birmingham airport. It may be upgraded later. Intercity travel at high speeds still a long way off.

[pegman]

7 hours ago, The Farang said:

Americans don't care about fast trains.  Most people have cars or can fly to where they need to go because everything is too spread out. Not only that, Elon Musk is building underground Hyperloop s everywhere which should be completed shortly.  In a country like Japan or China where the majority commute by foot then train, having a high speed rail is critical.

Joe was on the train 2 hrs every nite going home after a day in the senate.

[tifino]

1 hour ago, The Farang said:

The first Hyperloop will be finished this year in Las Vegas :).  Construction is almost finished.

 

spin city is an obviously winning choice to hype loop your prototype...  

 

[Grumpy one]

4 hours ago, The Farang said:

The first Hyperloop will be finished this year in Las Vegas :).  Construction is almost finished.

So there will be some thing else to bet on

Its reliability and how long it will continue to run

[teacherclaire]

On 10/29/2020 at 8:04 AM, recom273 said:

I just bought land in a village outside KKC, it’s way more developed and more of a commercial hub then Nong Khai, which, over the times I have been there has never changed from a sleepy Mekong town. 

Perhaps some places are way more enjoyable to live when they're "less developed." 

 

[teacherclaire]

18 hours ago, The Farang said:

Americans don't care about fast trains.  Most people have cars or can fly to where they need to go because everything is too spread out. Not only that, Elon Musk is building underground Hyperloop s everywhere which should be completed shortly.  In a country like Japan or China where the majority commute by foot then train, having a high speed rail is critical.

Is that the reason why Americans are looking for seat belts when traveling on a German, or French high speed train? 

[josephbloggs]

12 hours ago, The Farang said:

The first Hyperloop will be finished this year in Las Vegas :).  Construction is almost finished.

 and 

Quote

Not only that, Elon Musk is building underground Hyperloop s everywhere which should be completed shortly

Please don't just make stuff up.  He is not building Hyperloops everywhere.  He hasn't actually built a single one.  No full size prototype even exists.  No commercial hyperloops are under construction anywhere.

The Las Vegas project is nothing to do with a Hyperloop.  It is a one mile tunnel that Teslas can drive through (in theory, this is just a test).  At normal speed.  A tunnel that is a mile long.  From the strip to the convention centre.  Whoop de doo.  Hardly revolutionising travel is it?  Tunnels have been around for a while.

Hyperloop is an interesting concept but it is decades away from being a reality - that's if it even works at all.  But yeah, you go ahead and whoop about USA USA USA being at the cutting edge and ignoring the fact you are decades behind the Chinese in transportation technology.  

 

[recom273]

On 10/31/2020 at 10:05 PM, teacherclaire said:

Perhaps some places are way more enjoyable to live when they're "less developed." 

 

Exactly, Which is why I bought land in a sleepy village .. about 30 mins from town.

 

But the question was, why buy up commercial property on KKC and not NK? because KKC is more of a commercial hub than NK. Nothing about enjoyable, it’s about a Chinese money coming via the high speed rail link. 

[hotchilli]

On 10/29/2020 at 10:59 AM, pegman said:

Sure seems like a lot of envy from the Americans and English. Anything to do with they themselves not getting any fast train networks built themselves?

High speed train routes in UK, with more being built.

[josephbloggs]

52 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

High speed train routes in UK, with more being built.

Incorrect.  The only one of those which is a genuine high speed rail line is the little red bit going from London to Kent - a distance of 100 kms.

[The Farang]

On 10/31/2020 at 11:48 AM, josephbloggs said:

 and 

Please don't just make stuff up.  He is not building Hyperloops everywhere.  He hasn't actually built a single one.  No full size prototype even exists.  No commercial hyperloops are under construction anywhere.

The Las Vegas project is nothing to do with a Hyperloop.  It is a one mile tunnel that Teslas can drive through (in theory, this is just a test).  At normal speed.  A tunnel that is a mile long.  From the strip to the convention centre.  Whoop de doo.  Hardly revolutionising travel is it?  Tunnels have been around for a while.

Hyperloop is an interesting concept but it is decades away from being a reality - that's if it even works at all.  But yeah, you go ahead and whoop about USA USA USA being at the cutting edge and ignoring the fact you are decades behind the Chinese in transportation technology.  

 

You missed my point.  Not about being on the cutting edge,  it's a nicety its not a necessity.   Not only that it costs way more to build fast rail in the States.  In the States,  unless you're in the city you need a car because everything is too spread out.  Therefore the majority drive.  

[The Farang]

On 10/30/2020 at 9:14 PM, rickudon said:

Hyperloop is still a technology in waiting. Apart from a couple of 'demonstration' projects, not going to happen before 2050. 

 

Reminds me of the Maglev line running at Birmingham airport from 1984 - one of the first commercial lines. Quietly scrapped 10 years later.

Yes it is in beta phase right now.  

[rupert the bear]

oink oink trough me baby,debt me too.ohh but the dummies will pay and we the chosen ones,well chosen by ourselves will keep our ordained place in heaven,we were born to it and big brother will make sure it stays that way,the new old world order,old as in feudal.as in the old empire of the mercury imbibing 1st emporer

[The Farang]

On 10/31/2020 at 11:07 AM, teacherclaire said:

Is that the reason why Americans are looking for seat belts when traveling on a German, or French high speed train? 

Not sure about that, but it would be nice to have high speed rail in the States.   But, if it was so, you still will need a car to get around at your  final destination because everything is spread out and not every state has a substantial mass transit system.  The majority has a car.

[The Farang]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:12 AM, pegman said:

Joe was on the train 2 hrs every nite going home after a day in the senate.

Yes, he liked doing it, it was his personal choice.  

[Grumpy John]

I don't see the VHS Train ever turning a profit.   I have always Been a rail enthusiast.  The facts are there for everyone to see, freight cost per mile is unchallengable by road freight...as for a passenger only track...cost per mile for each traveller is through the roof until you fix the tickets at a high price, run longer trains and fill the trains and increase the frequency.  In a country where 80% of people are low income it's a tough ask.   They would have been better off with a standard gauge line with CTC and in cab signalling and running diesel electric locos at Max 160kph. At least the locos could do freight work and help cover costs specially if they run Bangkok to Kunming with minimum stops.  Do rail but don't break the elephants back in the process! 

[pegman]

2 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

I don't see the VHS Train ever turning a profit.   I have always Been a rail enthusiast.  The facts are there for everyone to see, freight cost per mile is unchallengable by road freight...as for a passenger only track...cost per mile for each traveller is through the roof until you fix the tickets at a high price, run longer trains and fill the trains and increase the frequency.  In a country where 80% of people are low income it's a tough ask.   They would have been better off with a standard gauge line with CTC and in cab signalling and running diesel electric locos at Max 160kph. At least the locos could do freight work and help cover costs specially if they run Bangkok to Kunming with minimum stops.  Do rail but don't break the elephants back in the process! 

I'm 4th generation, retired with 37 years, at a North American class 1 railway. Thailand doesn't have nearly enough long haul freight to be economic. 

[chainarong]

On 10/29/2020 at 10:13 AM, Srikcir said:

The government carries 100% economic risk coupled with 100% loans from China at a comparatively high interest rate ever paid by the government.

Typically, such a government project requires an economic analysis to prove sustainability. But Prayut used Article 44 to initiate the project that bypasses such analysis (as well as any anti-corruption laws).

In response economic analysts have warned about potential for economic failure, ie. bankruptcy. So ultimately, there is a potential that the public benefit will come at a great cost vis a vis the Thai treasury. And as typical to expensive infrastructure projects, resulting GDP growth is long-term, ie., 20-30 years.

 

China supplies all critical infrastructure and maintains the trains , go figure what labor they'll have.