France and Germany thrust into lockdown as second COVID-19 wave sweeps Europe

[John Drake]

7 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It's almost surreal living in Thailand, where life (other than wearing masks and the lack of tourists) is completely normal. One almost has to pinch oneself to remember there's a pandemic.

 

Don't worry. The vested interests are doing all they can to change that. Cruise ships anyone?

[Pattaya Spotter]

14 minutes ago, candide said:

Trump bungled the response to the first wave (compared to Europe). This is fact. It cannot be caught up.

 

This is now the second wave, so the issue is how they respond to it.  It will surge a bit later (a few weeks) in the US, so Trump will still have to opportunity to show if He's able to do better.

Didn't Europe bungle the first wave too if they're now facing record infections...wouldn't a non-bungled response look like what we now see in China, Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan, Vietnam, New Zealand, and Thailand? Maybe stop looking at the pandemic through biased political lenses. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[AlfHuy]

I'm wondering if people still can fly in and out of Germany, coming for a visit to Thailand without any problems.

(Asking for a friend)

[Pattaya Spotter]

11 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Don't worry. The vested interests are doing all they can to change that. Cruise ships anyone?

It takes a lot of screening and testing to get on any of the few cruise ships that are sailing right now...probably one of the safest groups to allow into Thailand.

[candide]

There are two important factors behind this decision.

- the first is that no government will be able to survive a situation in which people may die in hospitals' corridors because they haven't flattened the curve:

- the second is that, by responding now, they may be able to return to a nearly normal situation in December. It is very important from an economic POV, as people spend a lot of money at this time of the year. It is also important from a social/familly and entertainment POV. November is just a plain month.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

There are two important factors behind this decision.

- the first is that no government will be able to survive a situation in which people may die in hospitals' corridors because they haven't flattened the curve:

- the second is that, by responding now, they may be able to return to a nearly normal situation in December. It is very important from an economic POV, as people spend a lot of money at this time of the year. It is also important from a social/familly and entertainment POV. November is just a plain month.

 

2020 might be remembered for the Deathly Christmas. ???? 

[rabas]

55 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Didn't Europe bungle the first wave too if they're now facing record infections...wouldn't a non-bungled response look like what we now see in China, Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan, Vietnam, New Zealand, and Thailand? Maybe stop looking at the pandemic through biased political lenses. 

Scientific, not political.

 

Europe and the US were hit with a much more infectious strain named 614G. Asian countries were hit earlier with 614D. 614G is up to 10X more infectious but not more severe. This made it much easier for the Asian countries to clamp down and near impossible for the also somewhat less prepared Western counties to stop it. 

 

Being more infectious, 614G eventually dominated 98% of all cases as seen in this graph.

 

 

According to an early Chinese paper, Wuhan, oddly was hit with a more infectious strain right after the clamp down, saving the rest of China. 614G could come back to Asia or Thailand.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420308205

[teacherclaire]

4 hours ago, Brunolem said:

They make tons of money thanks to their stupid neighbors. 

 

As far as the German economy is concerned, the euro is grossly undervalued, which gives a fantastic boost to its exports. 

 

Meanwhile the euros is grossly overvalued for most of the other economies of the union. 

 

It is the latter (Spain, Italy...) who should leave. 

 

Germany is not paying anything for the other members... these are just entries to balance the ECBs book, without any real transfer of money from one state to another. 

You have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

 

 

   In 2019 Germany's contributions to the budget of the European Union was 25.82 billion Euros, the highest of any EU member state. France was the next highest contributor at 21 billion Euros, followed by Italy at 14.96 billion Euros and the United Kingdom at 14 billion Euros.

[sucit]

Anyone with half a brain has known this for months. Meanwhile, countries who did not lock down are doing fine, but had an initial harder spike but well worth it in the long run in terms of lives saved. This has been clear for at least two months now. It is utter insanity. 

[from the home of CC]

10 hours ago, rabas said:

Going vertical. France alone is now beyond the entire EU first peak. Belgium, not shown, is off the charts.

 

and they were warned but still decided the money was more important - this virus doesn't give a damn if you're suffering from 'lockdown fatigue' or that your right to not mask up is being infringed. All it wants to do is to infect a many as possible which it is now doing. Time for folks to grow up if they want to get a handle on this..

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Scientific, not political.

 

Europe and the US were hit with a much more infectious strain named 614G. Asian countries were hit earlier with 614D. 614G is up to 10X more infectious but not more severe. This made it much easier for the Asian countries to clamp down and near impossible for the also somewhat less prepared Western counties to stop it. 

 

Being more infectious, 614G eventually dominated 98% of all cases as seen in this graph.

 

 

According to an early Chinese paper, Wuhan, oddly was hit with a more infectious strain right after the clamp down, saving the rest of China. 614G could come back to Asia or Thailand.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420308205

That may be the case, however, the fact that most of Europe completely opened-up over the Summer, after somewhat successfully tamping down the virus in the Spring, I would call a bungled virus response.

[3NUMBAS]

2nd 3rd and   4th  waves yet to arrive so its all downhill to abject chaos

[Flying Saucage]

3 hours ago, Paiman said:

 The german old and new expert on this is Christian Drosten, he is a key member who developed the not very reliable PCR test and promotes it for using to governments. He is also the main adviser to the german government and pro scaremongering.

 

Others might think that is a conflict of interest, but not for authority loving germans.

 

I just hope sooner or later more countries will look towards Sweden, because many people feel their life is stolen by the governments.

 

The man made Fallout is now far worse then the Fallout from the virus.

 

There might be reasons like this why today there is very little communication anymore between Drosten and Hendrick Streeck, another other leading specialist in Germany.

 

Streeck has a much more pragmatic approach, and if he had the same influence to the German government, an approach more similar to that in Sweden might have been chosen.

 

Now it is autumn, winter is coming, and the numbers are going up as expected, due to the different climatic conditions. After the November lockdown, they will think about the next one in Febuary then, and maybe one more in May, and in summer 2021, everything will be fine again. But do they want to continue this endlessly? More and more it becomes obvious that Swedens approach is the right one.

 

 

 

 

[rabas]

New coronavirus variant spreading across Europe, scientists warn

The Irish Times

 

A coronavirus variant that originated in Spanish farm workers has spread rapidly through much of Europe since the summer, and now accounts for the majority of new Covid-19 cases in several countries.

 

"From the spread of 20A.EU1, it seems clear that the [virus prevention] measures in place were often not sufficient to stop onward transmission of introduced variants this summer,” said Emma Hodcroft, an evolutionary geneticist.  [the properties of this new mutation are not yet fully understood]  "But she emphasised that 20A.EU1 was unlike any version of Sars-Cov-2 – the virus that causes Covid-19–- she had previously come across."

 

 

[Sametboy2019]

25 minutes ago, rabas said:

New coronavirus variant spreading across Europe, scientists warn

The Irish Times

 

A coronavirus variant that originated in Spanish farm workers has spread rapidly through much of Europe since the summer, and now accounts for the majority of new Covid-19 cases in several countries.

 

"From the spread of 20A.EU1, it seems clear that the [virus prevention] measures in place were often not sufficient to stop onward transmission of introduced variants this summer,” said Emma Hodcroft, an evolutionary geneticist.  [the properties of this new mutation are not yet fully understood]  "But she emphasised that 20A.EU1 was unlike any version of Sars-Cov-2 – the virus that causes Covid-19–- she had previously come across."

 

 

So why was it different?

[scammed]

12 hours ago, candide said:

And, of course, you know better.....

yes i do, every data released show no deaths from the much vaunted '2nd wave', only increased tested positive

[rabas]

3 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

So why was it different?

It's similar to the earlier post about the  mutation 416G, which was more infective and one reason (among others) that COVID-19 spread so easily in the West. 416G was in wave 1. Now there is a new dominant mutation from Spain 20A.EU1 which is quickly replacing older strains.

 

Its too early to know (always is with scientists) if the rapid spread is because of the new mutation, seasonal changes, or travel patterns, etc. The rapid spread and replacement of the older strains hint it may spread more easily. 

 

I found a paper that was just released, some graphs and charts.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25.20219063v1

You need to download the pdf for good images.

[Tounge Thaied]

12 hours ago, rabas said:

Check out EU hospitalization rates and get back to us.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/22/world/europe/europe-hospitals-covid.html

 

Ahh... Right. Those hospitalization rates have nothing to do with the normal seasonal flu rates. You're mad. 

[rabas]

16 minutes ago, scammed said:

yes i do, every data released show no deaths from the much vaunted '2nd wave', only increased tested positive

Old nonsense.

 

Check out EU hospitalization rates, setting records.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/22/world/europe/europe-hospitals-covid.html

 

Check out the now rising deaths in Spain and France. Death follow hospitalizations.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

[Tounge Thaied]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

Old nonsense.

 

Check out EU hospitalization rates, setting records.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/22/world/europe/europe-hospitals-covid.html

 

Check out the now rising deaths in Spain and France. Death follow hospitalizations.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Exactly!! Nonsense.

[scammed]

9 minutes ago, rabas said:

Old nonsense.

 

Check out EU hospitalization rates, setting records.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/22/world/europe/europe-hospitals-covid.html

 

Check out the now rising deaths in Spain and France. Death follow hospitalizations.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

its the last pic you need to look at, this pic,

that trend is universal from all nations,

it was a spike half a year ago and it has more or less flatlined

to business as usual.

it is worth note that sweden that

did nothing dont see even this modest increase, its a complete flatline.

in case you missed it, there is no correlation between more tested positive and death rate

Edited October 29, 2020 by scammed

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

You have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

 

 

   In 2019 Germany's contributions to the budget of the European Union was 25.82 billion Euros, the highest of any EU member state. France was the next highest contributor at 21 billion Euros, followed by Italy at 14.96 billion Euros and the United Kingdom at 14 billion Euros.

I was not talking about the EU budget, but rather about Target 2, where Germany is on the hook for about 1 trillion euros...on paper.

 

Regarding the EU budget, each member pays its fair share in proportion of its size.

 

Germany has by far the largest economy and population, so it contributes the most.

 

The money spent on the budget is to pay for the giant technocratic apparatus of the EU, not to help members in trouble.

[Scott]

A post that copied the entire OP has been removed.  

 

[greenhornfarang]

Quote

Under the new French measures which come into force on Friday, people will be required to stay in their homes except to buy essential goods, seek medical attention, or exercise for up to one hour a day. They will be permitted to go to work if their employer deems it impossible for them to do the job from home. Schools will stay open.

What if one wanted to exercise 2 times per day one hour each session? or lets say 1 time but for 1 hour and 30 minutes? I frequently go on half-marathon runs which usually take me about 2 hours to complete. Also how does one go about beheading during these times?

[candide]

10 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The money spent on the budget is to pay for the giant technocratic apparatus of the EU, not to help members in trouble.

The EU spends less than 7% of its annual budget on administration. This includes staff salaries and pensions, schools for children of staff members, buildings, etc.

[candide]

11 hours ago, scammed said:

yes i do, every data released show no deaths from the much vaunted '2nd wave', only increased tested positive

Deaths usually occur 2-8 weeks after the onset of COVID-19 symptoms, so we need to wait.

Edited October 29, 2020 by candide

[scammed]

5 hours ago, candide said:

Deaths usually occur 2-8 weeks after the onset of COVID-19 symptoms, so we need to wait.

i dont need to wait for the trend to be clear,

that is all over, i just need to wait 2 more month

to show how insignificant this was as viewed per year basis

[teacherclaire]

On 10/29/2020 at 6:55 AM, rabas said:

They have the instruction manual, which they refuse to release.

 

We shouldn't make fun of it. There's so much truth in it that it's already scary/. 

 

[teacherclaire]

On 10/29/2020 at 6:55 AM, rabas said:

They have the instruction manual, which they refuse to release.

 It's time that they give the damn manual back!