What's the modern day equivalent of a Walkman ?

[Daffy D]

Thanks to every one for all your input. May good leads and pointers to look for and follow up. 

 

As regards to quality of sound, I have a SD card full of "golden oldies" mainly downloaded from YouTube that I sometimes belt out at full volume when alone in the car and the quality of sounds seems OK to me, so sound quality is not a priority for me.

 

 

 

 

 

[khunPer]

12 hours ago, VBF said:

Bit of a PITA when the rubber band snaps though, innit?  ????

What "rubber band"are you talking about?

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Yes, my hearing IS gone if you consider above 11kHz to be gone. After 40 odd years playing live music it's not unexpected.

 

Oh, never underestimate the placebo effect and cognitive bias. Given the seeming average age of most posters here, I doubt many can even tell the difference between 128kbps and 320, let alone 320 and FLAC. ????

 

Quick test of that:

 

http://mp3ornot.com/

 

Interesting vid discussing the subject by a knowledgeable listener and a test of a prime subject on good equipment:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgEjI5PZa78

 

And even she got it right only 66% of the time. How much of that was luck?

 

That test:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

 

A good discussion:

 

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/threads/can-you-really-tell-difference-between-mp3-and-flac.18843941/

 

As one poster there says, and I think you'll find similarly findings rather commonly expressed:

 

I have a decent DAP and £280 in ears, I also have excellent hearing which is equal to someone with normal hearing in their 20s.

I originally tried FLACs on my DAP and then put MP3 320's on and asked my daughter to switch between the two - I couldn't hear a difference.

I then ran both files through Spectrum Analyser which confirmed there was no difference.

However do the same test with lower bit rate MP3's and there is a difference.

 

And another:

 

High quality mp3 v FLAC you may notice a difference. However things like speakers and speaker position, room acoustics, DAC quality, amp quality, power quality, and cables will potentially make more difference.

 

What i'm saying, is you can have your entire library in FLAC format, however unless rest of audio chain is very good, then FLAC argument becomes mainly academic.

 

In short, don't worry about MP3 vs FLAC on your little player or phone.???? Worry about the quality of that player/phone and your earbuds.

 

Not long ago I bought a tiny cheap little player just for listening to audiobooks (which are often only 96kbps mono) at the laundromat or waiting rooms. It's actually OK for audiobooks, though the firmware's a joke. Then I tried real music. OMG. Forget yer Walkmans. It was AM radio on a 1957 Sony TR-63 transistor.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Eindhoven said:

 

11 kHz seems relatively limited. I haven't been tested of late, so make no further comment regarding that.

I play too...but took precautions. But even with that, if you know how things should sound, you especially should hear the difference. Lossless a much fuller, more complete presentation.

I too have most of my music as flac. I just put Strawberry Fields (Remix) into VLC and converted it from flac to mp3, then put both into Audacity and A/Be-d them. I cannot hear any difference whatsoever, but flac is 13.3mb, mp3 is 3.03 mb. SoundBlaster ZXR card, Arcam Alpha 8R amp, Paradigm 20 and M Audio B8 speakers

Download a signal generator app and test yourself, and/or your equipment.

And let's not even approach vinyl vs digital.

Edited November 8, 2020 by KannikaP

[Peterphuket]

1 hour ago, Eindhoven said:

 

11 kHz seems relatively limited. I haven't been tested of late, so make no further comment regarding that.

I play too...but took precautions. But even with that, if you know how things should sound, you especially should hear the difference. Lossless a much fuller, more complete presentation.

On my age above 70 I have the same experience, even not higher then 10k but I still agree what he mention about the DA converters used in phones they are very simple and it is hardly to hear the different of MP3 and AIFF or FLAC or some high quality converters.

But strange, when I listing to my home set with high quality speakers (Infinity Kappa 9) I have the feeling I can hear the whole spectrum.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Peterphuket

[Eindhoven]

43 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I too have most of my music as flac. I just put Strawberry Fields (Remix) into VLC and converted it from flac to mp3, then put both into Audacity and A/Be-d them. I cannot hear any difference whatsoever, but flac is 13.3mb, mp3 is 3.03 mb. SoundBlaster ZXR card, Arcam Alpha 8R amp, Paradigm 20 and M Audio B8 speakers

Download a signal generator app and test yourself, and/or your equipment.

And let's not even approach vinyl vs digital.

 

No need for me to download any signal generator app, as I can hear the difference. As you know, your hearing is not optimal. 

I'm not describing subtle differences here. For me there are all sorts of things missing.

 

I'll upload a simple example; Grover Washington's Winelight:

 

Lossless: https://mega.nz/folder/uNsBlApC#VmT5p0VDHFpzhUdLPZW2NA

 

320 kbps MP3: https://mega.nz/folder/CctACDoT#8B8QiX-WrcsuoBRL826VoQ

 

 

Tell me if you can hear any differences.

[VBF]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

What "rubber band"are you talking about?

You failed to notice the    ???

[Eindhoven]

44 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

On my age above 70 I have the same experience, even not higher then 10k but I still agree what he mention about the DA converters used in phones they are very simple and it is hardly to hear the different of MP3 and AIFF or FLAC or some high quality converters.

But strange, when I listing to my home set with high quality speakers (Infinity Kappa 9) I have the feeling I can hear the whole spectrum.

 

 

I'll give it a listen on my cheap Smartphone; paid less than 1500 baht and 99 baht headphones from 7-11.

If I can hear the difference; I cannot imagine that I will not, then it's not a phone issue either. The whole sound stage is different. MP3 tends to be indistinct.

Imagine lossless as a painting. MP3 is like a slightly out of focus photograph of that painting.

 

Have a listen to the files above and tell me if you can hear and feel the difference.

 

[watthong]

21 hours ago, Daffy D said:

22 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Sorry, cannot advise. I have used iPhone to listen to my music or BBC Worldnews while exercise walking in the park. I do have an old iPod which is fitted to my radio speakers when in the office ... soft romantic Thai music, Gregorian Chants or my '60s downloaded song when the spirit hits me.

Oh my lord now really scraping the bottom of my memory barrel. Haven't heard or even thought about  Gregorian Chants since my school days. 

 

I hear you. Don't forget you're dealing with farang expats, my friend.

(now if only I can dig out my Enigma CD from somewhere...)

[KannikaP]

26 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

No need for me to download any signal generator app, as I can hear the difference. As you know, your hearing is not optimal. 

I'm not describing subtle differences here. For me there are all sorts of things missing.

 

I'll upload a simple example; Grover Washington's Winelight:

 

Lossless: https://mega.nz/folder/uNsBlApC#VmT5p0VDHFpzhUdLPZW2NA

 

320 kbps MP3: https://mega.nz/folder/CctACDoT#8B8QiX-WrcsuoBRL826VoQ

 

 

Tell me if you can hear any differences.

Same as with the example Big Star suggested an hour ago, and I , personally, cannot hear any difference between the two. But as you seem to think you do not need to do a hearing test, your lugs must be far superior to mine.

[KannikaP]

14 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

 

I'll give it a listen on my cheap Smartphone; paid less than 1500 baht and 99 baht headphones from 7-11.

If I can hear the difference; I cannot imagine that I will not, then it's not a phone issue either. The whole sound stage is different. MP3 tends to be indistinct.

Imagine lossless as a painting. MP3 is like a slightly out of focus photograph of that painting.

 

Have a listen to the files above and tell me if you can hear and feel the difference.

 

FEEL the difference on 99 Bht phones from 7-11?   LOL

[KannikaP]

23 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

Have the shop download and install VLC

Or you CAN do it yourself !    LOL

[Dart12]

3 hours ago, Daffy D said:

Thanks to every one for all your input. May good leads and pointers to look for and follow up. 

 

As regards to quality of sound, I have a SD card full of "golden oldies" mainly downloaded from YouTube that I sometimes belt out at full volume when alone in the car and the quality of sounds seems OK to me, so sound quality is not a priority for me.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, just get a cheap cell phone and good earphones.  You can download whatever you want on it.

Plus you get the bonus of wifi.

And, you are probably not aware of these, but Pandora and Spotify are great free apps that will stream all the music you love for free.

YOu pick an artist, or a song, and then tPandor send you more songs by more artists that are like that song or artist you chose.

Spotify, if you pick an artist station, they will only play songs by that artist for you till you pick another artist. 

Both also have Genre stations you can pick, like 50's golden age, Todays Music, etc.

So, to me, it would be worth picking up a sim card from lazada for like 600 baht that will give you unlimited internet data for 1 year.

I paid 1300, but that was for 10mbs unlimited because I use it to hotspot my laptop and even tv to watch netflix or youtube videos.

**You can also sign up for spotify and pandora on your computer, laptop, firestick, android box, car stereos' even have them now.  FYI

Edited November 8, 2020 by Dart12

[Eindhoven]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Same as with the example Big Star suggested an hour ago, and I , personally, cannot hear any difference between the two. But as you seem to think you do not need to do a hearing test, your lugs must be far superior to mine.

 

I mean that I don't need to do a hearing test to hear the difference, as it is so clear to me.

I'm not saying it in any kind of competitive sense. I'm genuinely surprised that you cannot hear the clear differences. 

BigStar is on ignore, so I don't see anything that he posts. I can go back to take a look.

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

FEEL the difference on 99 Bht phones from 7-11?   LOL

 

I''m using headphones to test the capability of that cheap combo; the person to whom I replied has a "home set with high quality speakers (Infinity Kappa 9)"

 

 

So hear and feel, yes.

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by onthedarkside
personal comment reported and removed

[Eindhoven]

19 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

Yeah, just get a cheap cell phone and good earphones.  You can download whatever you want on it.

Plus you get the bonus of wifi.

And, you are probably not aware of these, but Pandora and Spotify are great free apps that will stream all the music you love for free.

YOu pick an artist, or a song, and then tPandor send you more songs by more artists that are like that song or artist you chose.

Spotify, if you pick an artist station, they will only play songs by that artist for you till you pick another artist. 

Both also have Genre stations you can pick, like 50's golden age, Todays Music, etc.

So, to me, it would be worth picking up a sim card from lazada for like 600 baht that will give you unlimited internet data for 1 year.

I paid 1300, but that was for 10mbs unlimited because I use it to hotspot my laptop and even tv to watch netflix or youtube videos.

 

 

In addition, a phone will give you the option of streaming music via Bluetooth to your card player. No need for an SD card if his car player is Bluetooth capable

If not, can simply use an inexpensive audio lead from phone to player. Cheap SIM as suggested saves downloading. One can simply choose a playlist on YouTube et al and let it play.

 

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Peterphuket said:

On my age above 70 I have the same experience, even not higher then 10k but I still agree what he mention about the DA converters used in phones they are very simple and it is hardly to hear the different of MP3 and AIFF or FLAC or some high quality converters.

But strange, when I listing to my home set with high quality speakers (Infinity Kappa 9) I have the feeling I can hear the whole spectrum.

I suggest you do a blind test, only way to really know. Get someone to play the different formats at random w/o telling you which is which. See what percentage you get right.

[Peterphuket]

1 hour ago, Eindhoven said:

 

No need for me to download any signal generator app, as I can hear the difference. As you know, your hearing is not optimal. 

I'm not describing subtle differences here. For me there are all sorts of things missing.

 

I'll upload a simple example; Grover Washington's Winelight:

 

Lossless: https://mega.nz/folder/uNsBlApC#VmT5p0VDHFpzhUdLPZW2NA

 

320 kbps MP3: https://mega.nz/folder/CctACDoT#8B8QiX-WrcsuoBRL826VoQ

 

 

Tell me if you can hear any differences.

Of course converted (I did with Audacity) to MP3 (44.1 Khz sample fr. and 320 kbps) is not so big difference to hear but in contrast to 145kbps it is a big difference.

[Peterphuket]

Just now, BigStar said:

I suggest you do a blind test, only way to really know. Get someone to play the different formats at random w/o telling you which is which. See what percentage you get right.

I use a tone generator to test my ears, believe me when I was young then I could hear the pilot tone of the stereo receiver. Or the HS generator from the TV set.

[KannikaP]

9 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

I use a tone generator to test my ears, believe me when I was young then I could hear the pilot tone of the stereo receiver. Or the HS generator from the TV set.

And when I was young, as well as hearing the pilot tone, I could manage it three or four times a night, whilst listening to the HS on the telly!   LOL

Edited November 8, 2020 by KannikaP

[Eindhoven]

2 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

Of course converted (I did with Audacity) to MP3 (44.1 Khz sample fr. and 320 kbps) is not so big difference to hear but in contrast to 145kbps it is a big difference.

 

What did you convert?? I supplied both formats.

But if you insist that you cannot hear and feel clear differences between the two, you might as well chuck your HiFi system. Just joking. 

We are all different. Perhaps my hearing is better than the norm.

For me it's like removing a curtain from in front of the speakers; when listening to the Winelight media. 

Totally different. MP3 compression in general removes too many parts of the music.

 

[Eindhoven]

9 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

I use a tone generator to test my ears, believe me when I was young then I could hear the pilot tone of the stereo receiver. Or the HS generator from the TV set.

 

I could detect 20 kHz when tested at school.

[Peterphuket]

1 hour ago, Eindhoven said:

 

I could detect 20 kHz when tested at school.

WOW!

[Peterphuket]

1 hour ago, Eindhoven said:

 

What did you convert?? I supplied both formats.

But if you insist that you cannot hear and feel clear differences between the two, you might as well chuck your HiFi system. Just joking. 

We are all different. Perhaps my hearing is better than the norm.

For me it's like removing a curtain from in front of the speakers; when listening to the Winelight media. 

Totally different. MP3 compression in general removes too many parts of the music.

 

I convert the FLAC one, of course with Audacity, to MP3 and no, I don't listen through my stereo set, only on the computer with a Creative 2.1 set.

[Eindhoven]

1 hour ago, Peterphuket said:

I convert the FLAC one, of course with Audacity, to MP3 and no, I don't listen through my stereo set, only on the computer with a Creative 2.1 set.

 

I cannot hear your conversion...which is why I supplied both Lossless and Lossy for you to compare. I can hear the difference in the two samples that I supplied.

Of course I cannot comment on the conversion that you did.

[KannikaP]

6 hours ago, Eindhoven said:

 

I could detect 20 kHz when tested at school.

Probably most of us could 50-60  years ago. It's NOW we are talking about.

[JensenZ]

On 11/6/2020 at 7:42 PM, Eindhoven said:

 

It will be able to play anything, with a suitable player installed; such as VLC Player. I cannot listen to .mp3 music. Quality is too low. Usually use FLAC or .ape for storing and listening. Phone will also give you the option of viewing video if you feel like it.

 

Perhaps if you're playing it through very high quality and powerful speakers, but MP3 320 kbps is high enough quality for normal people on portable speakers. It must be hard to get through life with such sensitive ears. Even 128 kbps MP3 is fine by me on the speakers I play it on.

[Eindhoven]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Probably most of us could 50-60  years ago. It's NOW we are talking about.

 

You are talking about. I made a comment about my hearing at school with reference to perhaps why the difference is fundamentally clear to me, but not so to older gentlemen such as yourself.

 

 

[Eindhoven]

55 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Perhaps if you're playing it through very high quality and powerful speakers, but MP3 320 kbps is high enough quality for normal people on portable speakers. It must be hard to get through life with such sensitive ears. Even 128 kbps MP3 is fine by me on the speakers I play it on.

 

Nope; a local brand of 2:1 speakers and my laptop.

Hard to get through life....?? What a load of bull's testicles.

 

It's like saying that someone with 20/20 vision will have more difficulty than someone with less than perfect eyesight. A bit of a silly and patronising comment don't you think?

 

For me, the difference is clear. But I don't have 20/20 vision. We are different.

[jomtienisgood]

On 11/6/2020 at 8:12 PM, Daffy D said:

Looks interesting  

Yes, reminds me of some of the sextoys. 5555555 lol 

[JAMJAMT]

I used SanDisk for listening music,I'd love to download Apple Music playlist to MP3 then transfer them to the MP3 player for offline playback and listening.