Biden camp considers legal action over agency's delay in recognizing transition

By Simon Lewis and Tim Reid

 

U.S. President-elect Joe Biden carries folders as he departs following briefings with members of his "Transition COVID-19 Advisory Board" in Wilmington, Delaware, U.S., November 9, 2020. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

 

WILMINGTON, Del. (Reuters) - President-elect Joe Biden's transition team is considering legal action over a federal agency's delay in recognizing the Democrat's victory over President Donald Trump in last week's election, a Biden official said on Monday.

 

The General Services Administration (GSA) normally recognizes a presidential candidate when it becomes clear who has won an election so that a transition of power can begin.

 

That has not yet happened despite U.S. television and news networks declaring Biden the winner on Saturday after he secured enough electoral votes to secure the presidency.

 

The law does not clearly spell out when the GSA must act, but Biden transition officials say their victory is clear and a delay is not justified, even as Trump refuses to concede defeat.

 

Trump has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that there was widespread voting fraud and has filed a raft of lawsuits to challenge the results.

 

Election officials across the country say there has been no evidence of significant fraud, and legal experts say Trump's efforts are unlikely to succeed.

 

GSA Administrator Emily Murphy, appointed by Trump in 2017, has not yet determined that “a winner is clear,” a spokeswoman said. A source close to Murphy said she was a thorough professional who would take her time making a careful decision.

 

A Biden transition official told reporters on a call that it was time for the GSA's administration to grant what is known as an ascertainment recognizing the president-elect, and said the transition team would consider legal action if it was not granted.

 

"Legal action is certainly a possibility, but there are other options as well that we're considering," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, declining to outline other options.

 

The delay is costing the Biden team access to millions of dollars in federal funding and the ability to meet with officials at intelligence agencies and other departments

 

The transition team needs to be recognized to access funds for salaries, consultants and travel, as well as access to classified information, the official said.

 

In addition, the team has no access to the State Department, which usually facilitates calls between foreign leaders and the president-elect, the official said.

 

A senior administration official said the agency did not approve the start of a formal transition process in 2000 for five weeks while Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore battled over an election that came down to just hundreds of votes in Florida.

 

(Reporting by Simon Lewis and Tim Reid; Additional reporting by Trevor Hunnicutt and Andrea Shalal; Editing by Kim Coghill and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-10

 

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34 minutes ago, webfact said:

That has not yet happened despite U.S. television and news networks declaring Biden the winner on Saturday after he secured enough electoral votes to secure the presidency.

U.S. television and news networks only declare projected winners.  They cannot certify election results.  Biden and team will have to wait.

 

37 minutes ago, webfact said:

"Legal action is certainly a possibility, but there are other options as well that we're considering," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, declining to outline other options.

I doubt they have any viable legal recourse available to them.  That's probably why the official spoke anonymously.

Even the Republican Secretary of State for GA said there's no significant fraud and there's pretty much no way Trump will win his state.  Sadly, the GOP senators are calling for his dismissal.

 

The GOP's gone nuts.

22 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

U.S. television and news networks only declare projected winners.  They cannot certify election results.  Biden and team will have to wait.

 

I doubt they have any viable legal recourse available to them.  That's probably why the official spoke anonymously.

Legal recourse or not, just another example of Trump's destructiveness.

Votes are still being counted and the news channels are not the people who call elections. Until all votes are counted the Agency can't call the Election. 

1 minute ago, JusticeGB said:

Votes are still being counted and the news channels are not the people who call elections. Until all votes are counted the Agency can't call the Election. 

False. Votes are always being counted for some time after the election. This transition program has always been signed off on before the counting has finished.

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

False. Votes are always being counted for some time after the election. This transition program has always been signed off on before the counting has finished.

True, but a legal challenge stands imo no chance till the result is official. 

This 'legal challenge consideration' is simply a way to increase the pressure on this 'bipartisan' agency.

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

True, but a legal challenge stands imo no chance till the result is official. 

This 'legal challenge consideration' is simply a way to increase the pressure on this 'bipartisan' agency.

Trump is now 0 for 7 with his court challenges.  It's a lost cause.

 

This lady holding up the transition is a political appointee and one that has done some real BS stuff in the past.  The transition is a big deal.  Holding it up like this is extremely unpatriotic.  Hope Biden wins his legal action.

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Even the Republican Secretary of State for GA said there's no significant fraud and there's pretty much no way Trump will win his state.  Sadly, the GOP senators are calling for his dismissal.

 

The GOP's gone nuts.

 

They certainly seem to be falling in behind there (losing) candidate. Gone nuts, or gone Trump, there again, is their a difference?

 

They do need to be very very careful, I would suggest. No doubt the party contains many elected representatives, at State and Federal level, who harbour ambitions to achieve higher office. To be actively associated with Mr Trumps approach, particularly his apparent attempt to overthrow the election result in the courts, relying upon a "payroll vote" of judges who owe their appointment to Trump, (rather than any actual evidence) may do their political careers and future ambitions considerable damage.

 

I have seen it argued that the Republican Party is heavily influenced by corporate sponsors and lobbyists, I have seen it suggested that their political dominance is heavily bolstered by gerrymandering on a remarkable scale, they certainly seem to be enthusiasts for "vote suppression"; that seems to perhaps have become accepted within American politics. But to overthrow (or make a serious attempt to overthrow) an election decision as clear as this one, using either stacked courts and/or by imposing delays to break various deadlines, with the intention of having the outcome decided by newly appointed electoral college voters or a manipulated congress is another order of magnitude. We hear allegations of political corruption, well that would be the ultimate act of political corruption.It would certainly backfire upon them, and plunge the United States into a constitutional crisis whose ramifications would be immense. I would hope that the bulk of the Republican Party will consider this. Do they want to be the people who destroy the Presidency as a democratic institution? Do they imagine that Mr Trump, (and by extension themselves) if reappointed in the face of such a clear electoral rejection will ever be regarded as anything than a cheating lying rogue, both within the USA and the international community?

Edited November 10, 20205 yr by herfiehandbag

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Trump is now 0 for 7 with his court challenges.  It's a lost cause.

 

This lady holding up the transition is a political appointee and one that has done some real BS stuff in the past.  The transition is a big deal.  Holding it up like this is extremely unpatriotic.  Hope Biden wins his legal action.

As I said, I very much doubt there will be a legal challenge.

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that there was widespread voting fraud and has filed a raft of lawsuits to challenge the results.

The Justice Department's top election crimes prosecutor resigned Monday in protest after Attorney General William Barr told federal prosecutors that they should examine allegations of voting irregularities before states move to certify results in the coming weeks.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/09/politics/william-barr-voting-irregularities/index.html

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

False. Votes are always being counted for some time after the election. This transition program has always been signed off on before the counting has finished.

False.

 

EXPLAINER: for Election Winner, Much Transition Work Ahead

 

That period is known as the “transition," and this year's window is 78 days, or a little over 11 weeks, assuming a winner is known Tuesday. It will be shorter if the outcome remains unsettled for days or weeks after the election, partly due to the large volume of mail-in ballots.

In 2000, five weeks elapsed before the Supreme Court settled the contested election between Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore, leaving Bush about half the amount of time to manage transitioning the government from the outgoing Clinton administration.

21 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

 

They certainly seem to be falling in behind there (losing) candidate. Gone nuts, or gone Trump, there again, is their a difference?

 

They do need to be very very careful, I would suggest. No doubt the party contains many elected representatives, at State and Federal level, who harbour ambitions to achieve higher office. To be actively associated with Mr Trumps approach, particularly his apparent attempt to overthrow the election result in the courts, relying upon a "payroll vote" of judges who owe their appointment to Trump, (rather than any actual evidence) may do their political careers and future ambitions considerable damage.

 

I have seen it argued that the Republican Party is heavily influenced by corporate sponsors and lobbyists, I have seen it suggested that their political dominance is heavily bolstered by gerrymandering on a remarkable scale, they certainly seem to be enthusiasts for "vote suppression"; that seems to perhaps have become accepted within American politics. But to overthrow (or make a serious attempt to overthrow) an election decision as clear as this one, using either stacked courts and/or by imposing delays to break various deadlines, with the intention of having the outcome decided by newly appointed electoral college voters or a manipulated congress is another order of magnitude. We hear allegations of political corruption, well that would be the ultimate act of political corruption.It would certainly backfire upon them, and plunge the United States into a constitutional crisis whose ramifications would be immense. I would hope that the bulk of the Republican Party will consider this. Do they want to be the people who destroy the Presidency as a democratic institution? Do they imagine that Mr Trump, (and by extension themselves) if reappointed in the face of such a clear electoral rejection will ever be regarded as anything than a cheating lying rogue, both within the USA and the international community?

". . . relying upon a "payroll vote" of judges who owe their appointment to Trump . . ."

 

Isn't that pure speculation with no evidence to support it and thus a false or misleading statement?

transition?  what's the worstest that could happen?

 

it's not like we're in the midst of a pandemic with nearly a quarter <deleted> million americans dead already, and a superspreader president who thinks it'll magically go away (along with his legacy).

 

it's not like real experts are projecting another 100,000 dead by xmas.

 

it's not like biden's transition team would have professionals, not snake-oil radiologists, wearing big-boy pants to run the virus response, coordinate with the states, and........transition........to a responsible policy.

 

half a million dead by inauguration day?

 

........it is what it is.

 

 

48 minutes ago, JusticeGB said:

Votes are still being counted and the news channels are not the people who call elections. Until all votes are counted the Agency can't call the Election. 

this is the same way it's been done for decades.  Nothing different.

28 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I don't know if Real Clear Politics is a banned site, but they did make Arizona and Pennsylvania grey again today, as in too close to call. They now have Biden with only 259 electoral votes.

That's my 2 cents, feel free to delete If I broke a rule.

NY Times has Biden at 279.  Which includes PA, but not GA nor AZ.  GA's a lock.  PA's a lock.  But AZ is getting tighter.  Not many votes left there.

 

So, the fat lady has sung.  Trump lost.  No way to win at this point.  Even via these BS legal challenges.  Man up, accept the loss and move on.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

this is the same way it's been done for decades.  Nothing different.

 

no, the difference is trump is a sore loser, unable to accept defeat.

 

he's just begun to fight, and will keep up the court cases, to prevent any transition work right up until the secret service carries him out the door.  i just hope they videotape the lucky lottery-winning seal team member hitting him with a gorilla tranquilizer and post it on tiktok.

 

until then he'll be busy signing executive orders, firing department heads, and assigning new "acting" head stooges to make the eventual transition as difficult as possible.....interspersed with playing golf, tweetering, and holding rallies to spread more virus amonst the faithful.

23 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

". . . relying upon a "payroll vote" of judges who owe their appointment to Trump . . ."

 

Isn't that pure speculation with no evidence to support it and thus a false or misleading statement?

Speculation doesn't equal "a false or misleading statement".

 

For your information and education I will post a definition of the word "speculation":

 

spec·u·la·tion
/ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun
The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
"there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit"

I expect they are waiting to see whether any voting fraud has occurred .

   If it can be proven that dead people registered and voted , the election would have to be voided and another election held  , this time without mail in votes

5 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

I expect they are waiting to see whether any voting fraud has occurred .

   If it can be proven that dead people registered and voted , the election would have to be voided and another election held  , this time without mail in votes

No it wont. 

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

counted for some time after the election

 

1 hour ago, JusticeGB said:

Votes are still being counted and the news channels are not the people who call elections. Until all votes are counted the Agency can't call the Election. 

He already got the 270 votes??

 

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

No it wont. 

 

  What would happen if its revealed that vote fraud occurred ?

7 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

I expect they are waiting to see whether any voting fraud has occurred .

   If it can be proven that dead people registered and voted , the election would have to be voided and another election held  , this time without mail in votes

So you'd prefer no mail-in voting.  Hmmmm....

 

[“Are they complaining about mail-in voting in Utah where President Trump won and which has always done mail-in voting?” Becker asked. “Are they complaining in other states, such as Ohio and Florida, which saw massive amounts of mail-in voting?”]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/we-asked-nine-legal-experts-about-trump-s-latest-lawsuit-challenging-election-results-in-pennsylvania-their-verdict-dead-on-arrival/ar-BB1aR4if

 

 

I would really like to know if the the supporters of Biden on this thread, were given unequivocal evidence that there was voter fraud, would they care? Would they care if they knew the election was rigged?

I'm not saying it was, but there is a marked lack of interest in waiting for recounts and challenges. Gore's challenges went for weeks. Isn't it important to know that the vote still has meaning?

I understand the enthusiasm, but the vote is the foundation of everything America stands for.

45 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

False.

 

EXPLAINER: for Election Winner, Much Transition Work Ahead

 

That period is known as the “transition," and this year's window is 78 days, or a little over 11 weeks, assuming a winner is known Tuesday. It will be shorter if the outcome remains unsettled for days or weeks after the election, partly due to the large volume of mail-in ballots.

In 2000, five weeks elapsed before the Supreme Court settled the contested election between Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore, leaving Bush about half the amount of time to manage transitioning the government from the outgoing Clinton administration.

My mistake. Thanks for the correction However there is one huge difference between the current situation and that one. In that one 2 non-incumbents were in a dispute. So in either case it would be a new administration taking over. In this case the Trump administration is the incumbent. The worst that could happen is that 9 million dollars got wasted if the Trump side prevails. Weigh that against the potential disruption and it's insurance money well spent.

17 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  What would happen if its revealed that vote fraud occurred ?

They remove them from the count. Its happened before.

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I would really like to know if the the supporters of Biden on this thread, were given unequivocal evidence that there was voter fraud, would they care? Would they care if they knew the election was rigged?

I'm not saying it was, but there is a marked lack of interest in waiting for recounts and challenges. Gore's challenges went for weeks. Isn't it important to know that the vote still has meaning?

I understand the enthusiasm, but the vote is the foundation of everything America stands for.

Can you share with us some of those unequivocal claims? Because some of us here have been shooting fish in a barrel...i.e. claims of unequivocal fraud. So far the courts haven't been real sympathetic to such claims.

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I would really like to know if the the supporters of Biden on this thread, were given unequivocal evidence that there was voter fraud, would they care? Would they care if they knew the election was rigged?

I'm not saying it was, but there is a marked lack of interest in waiting for recounts and challenges. Gore's challenges went for weeks. Isn't it important to know that the vote still has meaning?

I understand the enthusiasm, but the vote is the foundation of everything America stands for.

Because fraud and recounts before only make up around 100 votes. Biden is too far ahead for it to change anything.

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

I don't know if Real Clear Politics is a banned site, but they did make Arizona and Pennsylvania grey again today, as in too close to call. They now have Biden with only 259 electoral votes.

That's my 2 cents, feel free to delete If I broke a rule.

Can you share a link with us? That's the way it's supposed to be done. It's also useful to keep in mind that the owners of fivethirtyeight.com are very right wing. 

Edited November 10, 20205 yr by placeholder

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

They remove them from the count. Its happened before.

 

  If its gets reveled theres been fraudulent votes , ALL votes would have to be checked for fraudulent behavior