Is Thailand deliberately trying to sabotage it's own tourism industry?

[bwpage3]

9 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

 

If you are a sex tourist you think like a sex tourist

 

If no high quality tourists visit Thailand why are there so many 5 star hotels?

Seriously?

 

Why are the there so many high end EMPTY shopping malls in Bangkok?

 

Just because they built them, did NOT mean the people came.

 

 

 

 

[bwpage3]

7 hours ago, DDBKK said:

The fact of the matter is that the people making all the decisions aren't affected by them in any detrimental way and so it continues. 

 

In fact, if we were to break it down regarding the demographic of those who are most affected by the lack of tourism I'd bet a large % are the Burmese workers who appear to be on every island and tourist hot spot. Yes, lots of Thais and farang will be suffering but for thai, their family will join together to support each other and for farang, they really should have savings and/or have the foresight to plan for an eject situation if the <deleted> truly hit the fan. That's part of the basic 101 planning when you move to Thailand.

 

Tourism will return next year and it'll come back with a vengeance. The Thais are right about one thing, there are thousands of people waiting to get back to let their hair down and enjoy all the freedoms the country has to offer. There will be some who cut off their nose to spite their own face but those types wont be missed anyway.

 

Talking with my Thai family, thai friends and friends of friends who are not connected to the tourism industry and it's business as usual for the most part. So it's unfortunate for those in the industry who are suffering but there is also lots of suffering going on in other industries throughout the world such as aviation, oil and gas etc etc. 

 

This time next year Rodney.... 

Our industry is not reporting commercial air travel to be back to normal levels until at least Q4 2023.

 

 

[Dcheech]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

Disturbing as it may be (and hard to accept) the dominance of the western tourist is on the decline

 

I have not noticed many chinese tourists around. In fact almost none. Any Explanations or just candied yams? 

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, vinny41 said:

These are the countries most reliant on your tourism dollars

Thailand comes in at 21st with  9.82% GDP ( this is international tourism figure with is seperate from domestic tourism)

Source is World Bank

https://qz.com/1724042/the-countries-most-reliant-on-tourism-for-gdp/

 

This article talks about European  Holidaymakers to blame for Covid 2nd wave and subsequent lockdowns all over Europe

European holidaymakers to blame for COVID second wave, says health expert

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/28/european-holidaymakers-to-blame-for-covid-second-wave-says-health-expert

 

So if Thailand opens up no quarantine would it go into a countrywide lockdown

 

There are question marks over how accurate and reliable these rapid tests are

1) They aren't meant to be given to everyone only for symptomatic people

How accurate are rapid COVID-19 tests?

https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/health-care/how-accurate-are-rapid-covid-19-tests.html

 

Why Trump’s Rapid-Testing Plan Worries Scientists

Experts were already divided on the right way to deploy new coronavirus tests. Then the White House barged ahead.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/10/do-rapid-antigen-tests-have-accuracy-problem/616681/

 

The World Bank numbers are way off. Nearly every reliable study puts it at closer to 20%, which is $110 billion, or over 3 trillion baht. I think that 10% figure does not take into account ancillary businesses. And that makes sense, as the real economy is about $550 billion annually, and $110 billion of that can be directly traced to tourism, and tourism related businesses. No doubt that includes domestic tourism, too. 

 

The trillions of baht in income has been lost to Thailand’s commercial sector which consists of established tourist firms such as hotels but also millions of once self-employed Thais who serviced the now-defunct industry.

Thailand’s tourist industry economy was estimated to account, in real terms, for 20% of its GDP due to the combined and varied nature of foreign tourism economic activity which directly and indirectly reached into the pockets of Thailand’s economic grassroots. Now it is simply gone. This grassroots sector, for so long, was the key to Thailand’s resilience as an economy but this pandemic emergency is unprecedented. It has effectively cut the country off in the same way as a major war.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2020/09/14/economy-thais-losing-8-billion-baht-a-day-closed-tourism/

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

Seriously?

 

Why are the there so many high end EMPTY shopping malls in Bangkok?

 

Just because they built them, did NOT mean the people came.

 

 

 

 

 

True that. And many times you see alot of people in the malls, but rarely do I ever see people in the high end shops. Why? Partly due to the economic doldrums, but mostly due to punitive luxury taxes. If the administration was smart, they would lower these taxes to 20%. This would help Thailand to attract some wealthy tourists again. Most wealthy people love to spend real money while on vacation. Contrary to what you think, wealthy foreigners are NOT dumb. They do not enjoy paying for stunningly over priced items, and will wait for their next trip to London, Hong Kong, Singapore, New York, Nassau, or Dubai to buy a handbag at what it should cost, rather than what you think foolish people will pay.

 

Same applies to the domestic market. There are alot of wealthy Thais here. Other than cars, I doubt they buy any luxury items here. When you own population goes abroad to shop, you know you have been selecting ministers from the bottom of the barrel, for way, way too long!

 

Same applies to wine. Most wealthy people enjoy good wine. At a five star hotel, a wealthy Chinese couple want a great bottle of wine. They see a good vintage of Domaine Coche-Dury Monthelie, which would sell for about $500 retail, at a five star in any of the above cities for $1,000 on the list. Many are willing to pay the hotel markup. The same bottle, if it was available (highly unlikely) in Bangkok, would be 100,000 baht, or more. And if it was available would the hotel have a sommelier who was qualified and fluent enough, to explain the wine, and the various vintages available? I have not found that in the past here. I have been to high end restaurants where they knew nothing about the expensive wines on the list! Nothing! The lack of expertise here is a big factor in discouraging wealthy tourists who come here, from returning ever again.

Most wealthy people tend to be smart with their money. They simply will not pay stupid money for stuff. The ultra rich are different. But, no ultra rich people would even consider Thailand as a destination, unless they had work here. The luxury taxes have been discouraging high end tourism here for decades. It is policy that is so dumb, so shortsighted, so non-visionary, and it badly hurts the economy. If wine duty was 100%, you would have a thriving wine industry here, five to ten times the size of the current industry. So the state income would be made up on volume, and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be generated. Instead the protection of a few local wineries continues, due to some politicians passing the anti import wine bill years ago, and accepting the payoffs that came with that braindead decision.

 

Sure, the neighboring countries are benefitting from all of the mistakes Thailand is making. But, they are also trying much harder, and are far smarter with their policies. They deserve the gains.

These are simply more examples of brain dead leaders, who have no vision, and are NOT leading the nation forward, are not helping the nation to progress, and are not benefitting the people of Thailand.

[DDBKK]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

Our industry is not reporting commercial air travel to be back to normal levels until at least Q4 2023.

 

 

Define normal? There is no such thing. It's either rising or falling. The skies were arguably overcrowded as it was. 

[darrendsd]

2 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

Seriously?

 

Why are the there so many high end EMPTY shopping malls in Bangkok?

 

Just because they built them, did NOT mean the people came.

 

 

 

 

 

So you really think that these places are aimed only at tourists?

[spidermike007]

11 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

 

If you are a sex tourist you think like a sex tourist

 

If no high quality tourists visit Thailand why are there so many 5 star hotels?

 

There are just enough well heeled tourists, and business people, to keep the five stars in business. Also, they enjoy some domestic trade too, especially their restaurants. But, even well before Covid, the occupancy numbers were quite disappointing, and many considered them to be poor investments. I know a couple of GM's, and get reports from them directly. 

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

you know, riding my scooter around Hua Hin today it looked like a earthquake had destroyed parts of the city. 

 

places that were built just two years ago on soi 94 are being being torn down now. 

 

almost all the progress with new local businesses over the last five years that cater to Farangs are gone.  

 

the horribly ugly elevated dual track train that has cut the city in half is taking an eternity to complete.

 

the air today was filthy. 

 

oh shoot i lost my chain of thought. 

 

anyway the answer is yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was there recently, and it appears the war of attrition is in full effect. Like with Samui, but to a lesser extent, every week I see more places closing. Many are using their savings trying to survive. And this hapless government is continuing to do little to nothing to help any but the wealthiest of it's people. Shame on the toxic army. Trillions of baht are being lost, and hundreds of trillions of baht are being lost to closures nationwide. 

[CharlieH]

Bickering stopped. Keep it civil and no personal remarks please.

[FritsSikkink]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It was the statement about why did you ever come here, that got my goat. And I tend to agree with him, about high quality (well heeled) tourists coming here. Just not enough in the way of service, expertise, and the ability to shop, and spend alot of money while on vacation. Few rich people enjoy buying something for double, or triple what they pay elsewhere. The luxury taxes here alone, discourage a massive amount of tourism, on the high end. 

There used to be loads of rich tourist coming here before Covid. Back in the 80's most of the tourist had more than decent money. Later it changed more into backpackers, retirees who couldn't afford to live in there home country and freelancers who don't make enough money to set up a company.

[Disparate Dan]

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

First they need to figure out a way to attract tourism

Why? Most Thais - and I mean "ordinary" citizens - don't live in tourist areas and don't derive their income from the tourist industry, any more than they do from the car manufacturing industry or fishing. Yes, the total economy (eg GDP) suffers in a recession, but the usual figures (around the world at present) are of the order of 7-8%, which is hardly a cataclysm.

Plus those of us farang who live here in non-tourist destinations  have no need of the kind of low-life that comes from Europe or US, or the zombies from north Asia, to be cluttering the place (airports etc) again.

Like a lot of other popular tourist destinations right across the world, this flu panic is providing Thailand with a means of reminding people of the sheer nuisance of mass tourism, from San Tropez to Seoul or Sydney. Let's take the opportunity to not get it back.

[Saltire]

I agree with the end result - no tourism - but I am pretty sure it's not deliberate, just not thinking things through or taking external advice as per usual. In the same way I believe it was pure good luck that Thailand has avoided the worst covid could have inflicted.

 

What worries me is the 'what's next' in this lottery of big numbers related to being allowed to stay here, across all visa types.

 

Add the uncertainty and cost/availabiity of Health/Covid Insurance at age 65 and over (which I guess is a large percentage in TV), it is clear to me we are going to need more money to survive than at present.

 

I have decided to sell my rental property in Scotland, something I said I would never do incase I needed to return. Going 'home' has become more unlikely due to Covid, Brexit, Scottish Independance and Scotland not getting any warmer as well as how hard it has become for us to get back in if we leave for a break.

 

I feel I will need more cash then I have now to survive here long term and am planning acordingly.

 

Agree with many posters who have noticed the diminishing tourism venues such as hotels and restaurants, soon there will be no reason to come here as a tourist. In Kanchanaburi city, my closest place for a break, on a recent stay there, 3 more restaurants and bars have gone, and two of my favourite hotels closed down. The majority of closures are those catering to tourists and westerners. Same with Hua Hin where we went a few months ago. Some previously catering for western food etc have reverted to Thai food only to try to survive.

 

What saddens me really is that properly managed, Thailand, with its unbeatable natural beauty and beaches COULD be a number 1 international tourist destination.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bluetongue]

In Australia there has been various intensifying blather over travel bubbles over the last few months. The usual Asian suspects + NZ and the Pacific featuring. Interesting to note the other day Morrison (PM) mentioned Thailand for the first time that I know of, as a candidate. I think all things will proceed very slowly with caution for at least the next 12 months.

[seajae]

if they cannot currently come into Thailand without having a $100,000 covid  insurance policy and 20,000 baht why would they also need 500,000 baht in their bank for 6 months prior to coming here. Chinese dont seem to have the same requirement either, really makes you wonder what it is they are trying to do 

[Natai Beach]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

True that. And many times you see alot of people in the malls, but rarely do I ever see people in the high end shops. Why? Partly due to the economic doldrums, but mostly due to punitive luxury taxes. If the administration was smart, they would lower these taxes to 20%. This would help Thailand to attract some wealthy tourists again. Most wealthy people love to spend real money while on vacation. Contrary to what you think, wealthy foreigners are NOT dumb. They do not enjoy paying for stunningly over priced items, and will wait for their next trip to London, Hong Kong, Singapore, New York, Nassau, or Dubai to buy a handbag at what it should cost, rather than what you think foolish people will pay.

 

Same applies to the domestic market. There are alot of wealthy Thais here. Other than cars, I doubt they buy any luxury items here. When you own population goes abroad to shop, you know you have been selecting ministers from the bottom of the barrel, for way, way too long!

 

Same applies to wine. Most wealthy people enjoy good wine. At a five star hotel, a wealthy Chinese couple want a great bottle of wine. They see a good vintage of Domaine Coche-Dury Monthelie, which would sell for about $500 retail, at a five star in any of the above cities for $1,000 on the list. Many are willing to pay the hotel markup. The same bottle, if it was available (highly unlikely) in Bangkok, would be 100,000 baht, or more. And if it was available would the hotel have a sommelier who was qualified and fluent enough, to explain the wine, and the various vintages available? I have not found that in the past here. I have been to high end restaurants where they knew nothing about the expensive wines on the list! Nothing! The lack of expertise here is a big factor in discouraging wealthy tourists who come here, from returning ever again.

Most wealthy people tend to be smart with their money. They simply will not pay stupid money for stuff. The ultra rich are different. But, no ultra rich people would even consider Thailand as a destination, unless they had work here. The luxury taxes have been discouraging high end tourism here for decades. It is policy that is so dumb, so shortsighted, so non-visionary, and it badly hurts the economy. If wine duty was 100%, you would have a thriving wine industry here, five to ten times the size of the current industry. So the state income would be made up on volume, and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be generated. Instead the protection of a few local wineries continues, due to some politicians passing the anti import wine bill years ago, and accepting the payoffs that came with that braindead decision.

 

Sure, the neighboring countries are benefitting from all of the mistakes Thailand is making. But, they are also trying much harder, and are far smarter with their policies. They deserve the gains.

These are simply more examples of brain dead leaders, who have no vision, and are NOT leading the nation forward, are not helping the nation to progress, and are not benefitting the people of Thailand.

Complete rubbish. I am not saying you are deliberately lying, but I think you just have no idea and simply never come in contact with the hundreds of thousands of high end travelers in Thailand.

 

When was the last time you stayed in a five star resort in Thailand?
 

I cant really be bothered going through every point with you but you are factually wrong on so many levels.
 

Thais deliberately trying to sabotage their tourism industry? How absurd. Ridiculous. 
 

If you haven’t noticed covid deaths hit 10,000 today. Opening the country to tourism without quarantine is a false economy. The tourism industry would get a small boost and the other 85% of the economy would go back to how it was in April. Thousands of Thais would die. 

This mornings news-
with all due respect I think Lamborghini might be a bit more in touch with high end travelers than yourself.

 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

There used to be loads of rich tourist coming here before Covid. Back in the 80's most of the tourist had more than decent money. Later it changed more into backpackers, retirees who couldn't afford to live in there home country and freelancers who don't make enough money to set up a company.

 

I disagree about the timeline. Up until around 2010 a small number of rich tourists used to come here. I had two groups of rich friends who came, stayed in beachfront villas, or villas at top five star resorts, and spent ALOT of money. One couple who came with their two kids, I asked him how much he spent on his trip, after seeing his wife drop 68,000 baht at the hotel spa, and seeing him drop 22,000 baht on the lunch I was invited to. He said they average $75,000 per vacation, twice or three times a year. Usually 10 days. All first class. He made 12 million pounds a year in London, representing Russian oligarchs primarily, at his law firm. He said his chief complaint about Thailand, was that other than spas, there was nothing for his wife to spend money on. He said she usually likes to spend $10-15k on purses, jewelery, or designer clothing, but the prices were so outrageous, even she refused to buy anything.

 

Neither he, nor my other friends ever returned to Thailand, and that was over 10 years ago. They simply have too many great options, with outstanding service, expertise, and reasonable taxes. That is one of the chief reasons they do not come, but there are at least a dozen other good reasons. 

 

Sorry to say, but the high spending tourists are lost for good. They WILL NOT come back to Thailand. And places like Pattaya, Phuket and Samui will continue to go downhill. So, the goons at the TAT continue to pursue ever higher numbers (at least prior to Covid), regardless of the noxious air, unbelievable congestion on the roads, poor immigration service, poor environmental policy, poor public and traffic safety, and woeful service at the airports, which only create problems that exacerbate the drop in quality tourism.
 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I disagree about the timeline. Up until around 2010 a small number of rich tourists used to come here. I had two groups of rich friends who came, stayed in beachfront villas, or villas at top five star resorts, and spent ALOT of money. One couple who came with their two kids, I asked him how much he spent on his trip, after seeing his wife drop 68,000 baht at the hotel spa, and seeing him drop 22,000 baht on the lunch I was invited to. He said they average $75,000 per vacation, twice or three times a year. Usually 10 days. All first class. He made 12 million pounds a year in London, representing Russian oligarchs primarily, at his law firm. He said his chief complaint about Thailand, was that other than spas, there was nothing for his wife to spend money on. He said she usually likes to spend $10-15k on purses, jewelery, or designer clothing, but the prices were so outrageous, even she refused to buy anything.

 

Neither he, nor my other friends ever returned to Thailand, and that was over 10 years ago. They simply have too many great options, with outstanding service, expertise, and reasonable taxes. That is one of the chief reasons they do not come, but there are at least a dozen other good reasons. 

 

Sorry to say, but the high spending tourists are lost for good. They WILL NOT come back to Thailand. And places like Pattaya, Phuket and Samui will continue to go downhill. So, the goons at the TAT continue to pursue ever higher numbers (at least prior to Covid), regardless of the noxious air, unbelievable congestion on the roads, poor immigration service, poor environmental policy, poor public and traffic safety, and woeful service at the airports, which only create problems that exacerbate the drop in quality tourism.
 

That you don't know any at the moment says nothing.

[Appu]

500000 baht is not big figure for more than 1% of world population, especially if you count otc bitcoin millionaires which grow monthly. In current situation, Thailand just play safe, and want safe moderate to big spenders to come. I see it as ok move, since larger number of tourists would bring vivid back. If you are any kind of shop owner, you will want more few of those who spend 10000s daily, than backpacker. IMHO

[Sundown]

2 hours ago, Appu said:

If you are any kind of shop owner, you will want more few of those who spend 10000s daily, than backpacker. IMHO

 

It's quite difficult to spend 10000s in Tom yums and pad Thais, imho. Unless you are a really overweight millionaire...

 

[BangkokReady]

8 hours ago, Disparate Dan said:

Plus those of us farang who live here in non-tourist destinations  have no need of the kind of low-life that comes from Europe or US, or the zombies from north Asia, to be cluttering the place (airports etc) again.

I don't think that what foreigners want is really part of the debate.

[Traubert]

8 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I don't think that what foreigners want is really part of the debate.

Bingo.

 

Not Western foreigners at any rate.

[sezze]

It isnt about the 500k , it's the rule . Why do i need to show 500k in bank account ? There are many rules including quarantine , multiple testing , difficult flights , special insurance . What does 500k extra bring , except trying to take it from you ??

I think many people who do go Thailand for 2month tourist visa got 500k , equal 14000euro , in their bank account .

The government wants to follow you every move , during the whole holiday , that has been said many times even before Covid . They do not want you there , they only want your money . When this comes above the rules which are applied now , that can only be for 1 single reason , give me the 500k . 

When before covid i wanted a 2 month visa , i needed to show i have a job , i got a small amount in my bank , flight reservation inside and outside , 1 night stay or letter from Thai person .

[BangkokReady]

14 minutes ago, sezze said:

They do not want you there , they only want your money

It's unfortunate, but true in some cases.  The thing that really sucks is that these individuals not only think this, but believe that they have some sort of entitlement to foreigners' money.

 

It really stings when you encounter the "you rich, you pay me" types.

[polpott]

23 hours ago, impulse said:

And in spite of all the griping about zero dollar tours, the Chinese actually spend more in Thailand than western tourists.  The numbers support that.

TAT numbers. Like the TAT numbers recently announced that each Chinese tourist that came in on the first wave of STV visitors would spend 400,000 baht each. Did you buy into that?

 

The only way to attract high end Chinese tourists is to build a city full of casinos. Owned by Chinese, managed by Chinese, same as the zero baht tours.. Take a look at Sihanoukville. How much has it benefited local Cambodians?

[bwpage3]

10 hours ago, DDBKK said:

Define normal? There is no such thing. It's either rising or falling. The skies were arguably overcrowded as it was. 

Normal as in back to the average passenger levels pre-Covid.

[bwpage3]

5 hours ago, Appu said:

500000 baht is not big figure for more than 1% of world population, especially if you count otc bitcoin millionaires which grow monthly. In current situation, Thailand just play safe, and want safe moderate to big spenders to come. I see it as ok move, since larger number of tourists would bring vivid back. If you are any kind of shop owner, you will want more few of those who spend 10000s daily, than backpacker. IMHO

Who is more likely to go into a local shop?

[bwpage3]

5 hours ago, Appu said:

500000 baht is not big figure for more than 1% of world population, especially if you count otc bitcoin millionaires which grow monthly. In current situation, Thailand just play safe, and want safe moderate to big spenders to come. I see it as ok move, since larger number of tourists would bring vivid back. If you are any kind of shop owner, you will want more few of those who spend 10000s daily, than backpacker. IMHO

Who is more likely to go into a local shop?

[bwpage3]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I disagree about the timeline. Up until around 2010 a small number of rich tourists used to come here. I had two groups of rich friends who came, stayed in beachfront villas, or villas at top five star resorts, and spent ALOT of money. One couple who came with their two kids, I asked him how much he spent on his trip, after seeing his wife drop 68,000 baht at the hotel spa, and seeing him drop 22,000 baht on the lunch I was invited to. He said they average $75,000 per vacation, twice or three times a year. Usually 10 days. All first class. He made 12 million pounds a year in London, representing Russian oligarchs primarily, at his law firm. He said his chief complaint about Thailand, was that other than spas, there was nothing for his wife to spend money on. He said she usually likes to spend $10-15k on purses, jewelery, or designer clothing, but the prices were so outrageous, even she refused to buy anything.

 

Neither he, nor my other friends ever returned to Thailand, and that was over 10 years ago. They simply have too many great options, with outstanding service, expertise, and reasonable taxes. That is one of the chief reasons they do not come, but there are at least a dozen other good reasons. 

 

Sorry to say, but the high spending tourists are lost for good. They WILL NOT come back to Thailand. And places like Pattaya, Phuket and Samui will continue to go downhill. So, the goons at the TAT continue to pursue ever higher numbers (at least prior to Covid), regardless of the noxious air, unbelievable congestion on the roads, poor immigration service, poor environmental policy, poor public and traffic safety, and woeful service at the airports, which only create problems that exacerbate the drop in quality tourism.
 

"They simply have too many great options, with outstanding service, expertise, and reasonable taxes"

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

 

People that live in Thailand, or have lived in Thailand for a while, are use to Thailand.

 

They have their own experiences and opinions about the place.

 

Same was true when I lived in Thailand.

 

I can say after moving back in 2013 and returning in 2019 to install a well in my FIL's house, I had first hand experience just how bad Thailand had declined in those 6 years. Air pollution was horrid, traffic? Driving a rental car from the airport to Isaan was a stressful nightmare, much worse than driving for the 10 years I lived there. Nothing to me seemed to have gotten better. Costs were up. Baht exchange low. The only thing that never changes is Isaan. 

 

However, once I moved back into corporate America and had more income to spend, I did Not consider flying half way round the world to Thailand for a vacation as something I would ever want to do.

 

The reason being there are too many great options close to home, easy to travel to, visa is easy, people love tourists and just make a much more pleasant holiday experience.

 

This has nothing to do with bashing Thailand. 

 

I don't really want to spend over 20+ hours flying one way trying to get to Thailand. After living in Thailand, there is nothing left there for me to see or do. Air pollution is getting worse, traffic and just dealing with with Thai people who just don't understand customer service.

 

I can pop down to Miami and be in Aruba in 2:10 minute flight for $200 bucks. Aruba is named One Happy Island for a reason. Not only do you have incredibly high end hotels with casinos, the restaurants, beaches, etc. are all world class. Diving, snorkeling, golf, off-roading etc. means plenty of things to do and zero worries about the jet ski scam or getting scammed at all.

 

Latin America, South America, even Europe is much easier to get to.

 

Photo: Morning walk on the beach in Aruba. No sun chair vendors, no jet ski scams, no trash.

 

 

[bwpage3]

11 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

So you really think that these places are aimed only at tourists?

How many high end malls do you routinely shop at?

 

There are no deals there, read what others have written.

 

If the malls are aimed at tourists, who are they aimed at?

 

The wealthy Thai's are all shopping overseas.