No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19

[sezze]

57 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Easyjet and Ryanair said for travel within the EU they won't require a vaccine to board. Boycott those companies and countries that insist on vaccines.

Or even better , use only them who do insist on it .

In fact , as soon as i can fly again , i will certainly keep it in mind who let's every idiot in , or insist on best security .

[tribalfusion001]

9 minutes ago, sezze said:

Or even better , use only them who do insist on it .

In fact , as soon as i can fly again , i will certainly keep it in mind who let's every idiot in , or insist on best security .

I've been on 7 flights so far this year, 6 of them during the pandemic with no problems at all. UK, Thailand, Malaysia, Thailand, UK, Greece, Germany and the UK. Try North Korea for best security.

[ChakaKhan]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:40 PM, ThailandRyan said:

And does that mean their own Thai Nationals as well, since currently a pre-flight Covid test is not needed.

This being referred to as the "dirty grandpa clause".....I suggest free soapies upon arrival at swampy!!! ????

[gyps]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03166-8

 

[meechai]

On 11/23/2020 at 4:27 PM, webfact said:

Will Thailand allow people to enter Thailand without first having the Covid-19 vaccine?

 

Mostly fear mongering

Did they let folks in without Measles/Rubella/Polio vaccines?

 

Secondly how would it work? Other countries if & when a workable vaccine appears will not be stamping your passport

(most dont even have a passport) when they give out vaccines

 

Ever see how Flu vaccines are freely given everywhere in the western world? At places like markets & drug stores even.

Think they will make a diploma for you?

 

If ever a form will exist available thru Thai Imm think folks cannot just fix that in their own country with a computer & a printer?

 

Will Thailand assume liability for the requirement?

 

No will not fly long term.

Might be one more of the 1000's of short lived knee jerk reactions but no ....not long term real world

 

 

[brucec64]

On 11/24/2020 at 1:58 PM, Jingthing said:

Yes, I'm sure a good portion of those avoiding the vaccine will be persuaded over time assuming that there are no indications of serious safety issues with the many millions getting it during the earlier phases. Of course if there are serious safety issues that are revealed, then that will be a big problem. On the other hand, there are already multiple vaccines that are going forward, so there could be a safety issue with one and that could be dropped without too much damage.

I disagree. All of the vaccines that anti-vaxxers currently won't take have been around for many, many years and have been fully vetted for safety. All that will happen is that anti-vaxxers will troll the conspiracy websites, as they do now, and will find enough nonsense there to suit their confirmation bias.

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

I disagree. All of the vaccines that anti-vaxxers currently won't take have been around for many, many years and have been fully vetted for safety. All that will happen is that anti-vaxxers will troll the conspiracy websites, as they do now, and will find enough nonsense there to suit their confirmation bias.

 

You didn't understand my comment. 

People that identify as anti vaccers are only a subset of the people that will initially avoid getting vaccinated. Obviously the extremists are off the table.

[elgenon]

On 11/24/2020 at 6:42 PM, herfiehandbag said:

I understand that it is only one of a range of vaccines about to become available that needs to be "super cold". The rest just require normal refrigeration.

Of the three I've read about so far only the Oxford (Astro Zeniga) doesn't and it has a much lower success rate. It depends on the regimen though. 60-70% I think. Can't remember for sure.

[suzannegoh]

1 hour ago, brucec64 said:

I disagree. All of the vaccines that anti-vaxxers currently won't take have been around for many, many years and have been fully vetted for safety. All that will happen is that anti-vaxxers will troll the conspiracy websites, as they do now, and will find enough nonsense there to suit their confirmation bias.

 

 

Looking back at this five years from now, antivaxxers will be saying that the death rate from Covid19 was going down anyway and that Covid would have gone away naturally even without a vaccine. For extra points, they'll claim that as with polio, the measles, and smallpox, improvements in sanitiry conditions were what really brought the disease under control and that the vaccine had nothing to do with it.

Edited November 27, 2020 by suzannegoh

[Thorgal]

24 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

 

Looking back at this five years from now, antivaxxers will be saying that the death rate from Covid19 was going down anyway and that Covid would have gone away naturally even without a vaccine. For extra points, they'll claim that as with polio, the measles, and smallpox, improvements in sanitiry conditions were what really brought the disease under control and that the vaccine had nothing to do with it.

 

You have people who want to be vaccinated for all sorts of reasons.

 

You also have people who don’t want to be vaccinated for all sorts of reasons.

 

But you also have people like me, who prefer to wait till available vaccines are tested on a larger scale, secondary effects are known, period of immunity is known and all new possible variations/mutations of the virus will be covered with the vaccines.

 

I’m looking forward to see decent studies with proven facts and figures of correlation of genetics and age.

[Virt]

2 hours ago, elgenon said:

Of the three I've read about so far only the Oxford (Astro Zeniga) doesn't and it has a much lower success rate. It depends on the regimen though. 60-70% I think. Can't remember for sure.

First shot is about 70% but second approximate 90 %.  Still a bit lower than Moderna and Pfizer, but it's so much cheaper and easier to distribute, so it's has its advantage. 

 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

On 11/27/2020 at 1:30 PM, Virt said:

First shot is about 70% but second approximate 90 %.  Still a bit lower than Moderna and Pfizer, but it's so much cheaper and easier to distribute, so it's has its advantage. 

 

 

 

Yet yesterday and today AstraZenica is backpedaling on its results and trying to explain some issues due to several inconsistencies.  One of which is why a first injection given as a full injection was less effective than that of a half injection.  The devils in the details and waiting to hear clarifying info as to what in the hell is really going on.

 

AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 Vaccine: What You Need to Know - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by onthedarkside
questionable source link removed

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, VBF said:

Not necessarily. How long was it before the effects of Thalidomide showed up and the cause became clear?

Not that that changes my view - just saying it may be longer than the 2 years you suggest.

LOL. If I waited any longer I might die of natural causes anyway. I'll be so decrepit by then that I won't care even if the vaccine kills me.

I'm thinking of spending all my money to have a last holiday in LOS before I get confined to a rest home, as the government will just take any I have left to pay for the old folks home. So I'd probably have to have the jab to fly.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, VBF said:

Fair point - I possibly didn't think that one through! ????

As I understand it it took a long while before they joined the dots and banned thalidomide. So lots of babies damaged before they took action.

[TheFreqFlyer]

7 hours ago, meechai said:

 

Mostly fear mongering

Did they let folks in without Measles/Rubella/Polio vaccines?

 

Secondly how would it work? Other countries if & when a workable vaccine appears will not be stamping your passport

(most dont even have a passport) when they give out vaccines

 

Ever see how Flu vaccines are freely given everywhere in the western world? At places like markets & drug stores even.

Think they will make a diploma for you?

 

If ever a form will exist available thru Thai Imm think folks cannot just fix that in their own country with a computer & a printer?

 

Will Thailand assume liability for the requirement?

 

No will not fly long term.

Might be one more of the 1000's of short lived knee jerk reactions but no ....not long term real world

 

 

When I saw the source I immediately knew the writers were trying to sell us their speculative version of the future as if they know what will happen. The Thaiger is also a very biased source so I take what they are trying to sell us with a grain of salt. 

Fact is, no one actually knows. As you rightfully point out, there are many practical and ethical concerns. However, Thailand will not, and can not, impose a unilateral vaccine mandate on it's own volition. It's international bodies such as the WHO that set the policy. If the WHO makes such a policy recommendation AND Thailand adopts it, then so too will nearly every country in the region and most countries on Earth. Thailand's policy will not be either less or more stringent than that of any other nation. Just look at the situation pre-Covid.

 

Like most thinking folk, I have serious concerns about the legality, risk of side effects, especially of a rushed pandemic vaccine using new experimental technology never previously employed before and the practicality of all this. I don't see a vaccine requirement being imposed in the near term. There is no precedent for a mandatory pandemic vaccine as a travel requirement, so to see it rolled out in 2021 is wishful thinking.

 

Instead, a digital health pass with testing information is much more likely. Prior to Covid, I became aware of an EU digital vaccine passport initiative being developed, but this is not expected to enter into force until at least 2023. I think that IF a vaccine requirement were to come into play to cross borders, I don't see it happening before 2022 or 2023 at the earliest. 

[nickw]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:19 PM, canopus1969 said:

Anybody who chooses not to have the vaccine should not be let out of the asylum if they are that stupid – let alone being allowed to travel

well thats the dumbest thing I ever heard.

[A512]

8 hours ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

When I saw the source I immediately knew the writers were trying to sell us their speculative version of the future as if they know what will happen. The Thaiger is also a very biased source so I take what they are trying to sell us with a grain of salt. 

Fact is, no one actually knows. As you rightfully point out, there are many practical and ethical concerns. However, Thailand will not, and can not, impose a unilateral vaccine mandate on it's own volition. It's international bodies such as the WHO that set the policy. If the WHO makes such a policy recommendation AND Thailand adopts it, then so too will nearly every country in the region and most countries on Earth. Thailand's policy will not be either less or more stringent than that of any other nation. Just look at the situation pre-Covid.

 

Like most thinking folk, I have serious concerns about the legality, risk of side effects, especially of a rushed pandemic vaccine using new experimental technology never previously employed before and the practicality of all this. I don't see a vaccine requirement being imposed in the near term. There is no precedent for a mandatory pandemic vaccine as a travel requirement, so to see it rolled out in 2021 is wishful thinking.

 

Instead, a digital health pass with testing information is much more likely. Prior to Covid, I became aware of an EU digital vaccine passport initiative being developed, but this is not expected to enter into force until at least 2023. I think that IF a vaccine requirement were to come into play to cross borders, I don't see it happening before 2022 or 2023 at the earliest. 

enough time to go off grid

[ourmanflint]

Good luck to all the conspiracy nuts. Enjoy life while you can

[Don Chance]

Vaccines start in the US next week!

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/donald-trump-says-coronavirus-vaccine-deliveries-to-begin-next-week/story-jtYmYoZ7txwn2vG3q2aLvM.html

 

Fly to the US and get your shot and onward to Thailand. That is, if Thailand allow entry. I don't see the need for quarantine if someone has been vaccinated. Might need 2 shots though.

[FarFlungFalang]

The Astra Zeneca vaccine trials are looking a bit dodgy as well according to this ABC article.I think I'll pass on these rushed vaccines for this virus.They can't even run a simple trial without stuffing it up so how can you trust them to make a complicated vaccine?

 

 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-28/has-australia-picked-the-covid19-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-dud/12928128

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by onthedarkside
commercial site content removed

[elgenon]

21 hours ago, Virt said:

First shot is about 70% but second approximate 90 %.  Still a bit lower than Moderna and Pfizer, but it's so much cheaper and easier to distribute, so it's has its advantage. 

 

 

 

I question Thailand's ability to distribute a drug that needs to be at a very low temp.

[thaibestlover]

In Europe they start vaccination also in Drcember.

 

So, probably soonest in January quarantine is a thing of the past. 

[Virt]

2 hours ago, thaibestlover said:

In Europe they start vaccination also in Drcember.

 

So, probably soonest in January quarantine is a thing of the past. 

 

I don't think they ditch quarantine that soon even if people are vaccinated.

 

They probably want to do some quarantine/testing a few months to see if the vaccines are working as they should. 

[polpott]

18 hours ago, elgenon said:

I question Thailand's ability to distribute a drug that needs to be at a very low temp.

Astra Zenica vaccine only requires keeping at 2-8 deg C. A normal fridge will do.

[elgenon]

3 hours ago, polpott said:

Astra Zenica vaccine only requires keeping at 2-8 deg C. A normal fridge will do.

Yes, I know but so far it sounds less effective. Who knows which ones they will pick.

[polpott]

4 hours ago, elgenon said:

Yes, I know but so far it sounds less effective. Who knows which ones they will pick.

It sounds just as effective as the other front runners. When administered as a half dose followed by a full dose its 90+% effective. Thailand and UK have opted for AZ vaccine. More doses of AZ vaccine have already been manufactured than any other and, being less sensitive to storage temperature, makes it ideal for distribution in 3rd world countries. AZ are also distributing it at cost ie $3 per dose. Phizer will cost $19.50 per dose and Moderna want to make a real killing selling their vaccine at $25-$37 per dose. Bear in mind that the US vaccines require 2 doses and the UK vaccine 1 1/2 doses.

 

https://www.biospace.com/article/comparing-covid-19-vaccines-pfizer-biontech-moderna-astrazeneca-oxford-j-and-j-russia-s-sputnik-v/

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by polpott

[Tech65]

Here the one for AZ

Astra vaccine's 90% efficacy in COVID came in younger population - BNN Bloomberg

Make your evaluation then.

 

AZ is selling already this vaccine.

Thailand signs deal with AstraZeneca for Covid vaccine – Malaysia Today (malaysia-today.net)

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[polpott]

 "Signs deal" doesn't mean that people are being injected with it. Each country will have to assess the data and approve the vaccine. The data isn't yet available.

Edited December 2, 2020 by onthedarkside
hidden content removed

[pattayadude]

28 minutes ago, Tech65 said:

AZ are also distributing it at cost ie $3 per dose. Phizer will cost $19.50 per dose and Moderna want to make a real killing selling their vaccine at $25-$37 per dose.

I don't quite understand the relevance of price difference of $10-20 when it comes to life and death..14 year olds in 3rd world countries like Cuba are holding $500 smartphones..If they can find money for a stupid phone 20 times the price of a vaccine, they sure as hell can be creative and find $20 to save their lives

Edited November 29, 2020 by pattayadude

[polpott]

On 11/29/2020 at 3:05 PM, Tech65 said:

 

Here the one for AZ

Astra vaccine's 90% efficacy in COVID came in younger population - BNN Bloomberg

Make your evaluation then.

 

AZ is selling already this vaccine.

Thailand signs deal with AstraZeneca for Covid vaccine – Malaysia Today (malaysia-today.net)

 

 

 

Regarding the under 55 data, here's an extract from your link that explains what I've alreadty explained to you.

"The dose of AstraZeneca Plc’s Covid vaccine that showed the highest level of effectiveness was tested in a younger population than a bigger dose that showed less efficacy, according to the head of the U.S. Operation Warp Speed program.

The vaccine being developed with Oxford University was 90 per cent effective when a half-dose was given before a full-dose booster, the partners said on Monday. However, that regime was administered to participants in a group whose age was capped at 55,"

Edited December 2, 2020 by onthedarkside
hidden content removed