Scotland's Sturgeon puts UK on independence warning: We want a referendum soon

[evadgib]

This ol' chestnut, again?

 

Moves are afoot to void the 1707 act of union. If they succeed ???????????????????????????? will be RTU'ed so far that they'll wake up in ???????? without passing 'Go!' or collecting £200

 

HTH 

Edited November 27, 2020 by evadgib

[JonnyF]

5 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Did know that.

Thought the United Kingdom was the same as the European Union. 

Well, now you know.

 

I never thought this website could be so educational.

 

You seem like a nice guy. But you should really research the history and current status of both entities before you embarrass yourself again.

 

The EU is a glorified trading bloc that can only dream of the integration the UK achieved decades ago.

 

You shouldn't really draw comparisons again.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

1 hour ago, vogie said:

It was the Scottish Parliament that set the ruling for the 2014 Scots Ref, if you are so bothered about only Scots voting why don't you include the Scots that live in the rest of the UK and even the world, it is their future as well, or better still, just get SNP members to vote, you'd be sure to win then Rookie.

It's a BS argument - the University of Edinburgh (a difficult word to spell btw as it's pronounced a lot differently to it's phonetics) did some research which found that around 300,000 non Scots voted. This is perfectly legit, if they live there and pay taxes why shouldn't they be given a say - it's them and their familys' future too.

As votes are not public information - they are secret ballots - nobody knows for sure which way they may have voted. And again, those 300,000 voters - even if they ALL voted no, still would not have changed the outcome

 

I am of the famous Scottish diaspora and will probably be interred there but my two boys, one who is now at Gordonstoun, both have a living interest in Scotland and a future life there. However, Salmond denied me and a lot more than 300,000 born and bred Scots their right to vote and a say in their future.

 

Pity that it bit him in the bum... NOT.

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, fangless said:

I suggest the English hold a Referendum if they want rid of NI, Wales and Scotland and see the massive YES vote that would result.  All three are a huge financial and political drain on England.

Good riddance to the three of them and see how they survive on their own.

I'd like to keep Wales though, they have got some smashing little steam railways!

[rott]

Is it a Scottish Parliament or a Devolved Assembly.? I get confused. 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You do realise that simply repeating that old canard ad nauseum won't make it any less untrue that it was the first time some desperate yoon raised it, don't you?

 

Spain won’t block Scottish EU membership

 

 

Well of course Spain won't block it, especially after their Catalan debacle.

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, rott said:

Is it a Scottish Parliament or a Devolved Assembly.? I get confused. 

Yes and yes.

 

The Scottish Parliament (Scottish Gaelic: Pàrlamaid na h-Alba; Scots: Scots Pairlament) is the devolved, unicameral legislature of Scotland.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament

[herfiehandbag]

I have said this before, but I am not convinced that Ms Sturgeon and her party are actually that sold on full independence. 

 

There is nothing actually stopping her holding her own referendum, other than the fact that the government of the UK says no - yet her whole campaign is founded on rejecting the government of the UK!

 

My view, shared I suspect by many other English people, is crack on, fill your boots, hold a referendum, and if the results support independence you can start negotiating, with an explicit  mandate.

Edited November 27, 2020 by herfiehandbag

[rott]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Yes and yes.

 

The Scottish Parliament (Scottish Gaelic: Pàrlamaid na h-Alba; Scots: Scots Pairlament) is the devolved, unicameral legislature of Scotland.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament

The Scottish Unionists that I know say differently, hence my confusion. 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

It was open to all British citizens living all over the world, unless you had been living away for 15 years or more, which is fair. 

 

Imo not fair at all. Unlike General Elections, long term British nationals living in the EU were directly impacted by the EU referendum, and therefore should have been given a vote.

[LennyW]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

That was pre-brexit.  Things have changed.

Nope, we are still part of the UK.

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Well, now you know.

 

I never thought this website could be so educational.

 

You seem like a nice guy. But you should really research the history and current status of both entities before you embarrass yourself again.

 

The EU is a glorified trading bloc that can only dream of the integration the UK achieved decades ago.

 

You shouldn't really draw comparisons again.

 

I thought there was some freedom for the countries constituing the United Kingdom, as it is for the countries constituing the E.U.. 

I was wrong. 

The U.K. also appears to me as a very divided country  on a major issue : Brexit vote :

52/48.

Consequence : a lot of unhappy people, as it shows here. 

The 52 % can of course adapt the Vae victis principe :

"   We are the winners, you lost, abide and shut up.".

 

With an opposition of 48%, I am not convinced it is the right way. 

Open to conflicts. 

 

Based on these facts is labelling  the U.K. as a country one should dream of,  in my opinion, rather overstated. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by luckyluke

[BangkokReady]

13 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Nope, we are still part of the UK.

I'll try again.  The Scottish referendum where remain won was prior to Brexit.  Now people feel differently about being part of the UK as they want to stay in the EU.

 

I never said that Scotland was no longer part of the UK.

[fangless]

11 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Hey why not make a positive case for staying in the union?

Why should we.  Who says the English want you to stay in the Union! 

[Rookiescot]

10 hours ago, fangless said:

Sorry you are struggling.

You were wrong about "once in a generation" and wrong about low turn out, 

I have proved you wrong on both counts with facts.

 

 

You see this shows how utterly intransigent you are.

You have proven nothing of the kind. The fact is YOU are wrong.

The comment by Salmond about "once in a generation" is not legally binding. It was used in order to get people to turn out and vote.

I can not put this in simpler terms.

If you still cannot understand after this then I'm afraid you never will.

[Rookiescot]

10 hours ago, rott said:

Ah yes, the one who states that he is a Protestant and a Rangers Supporter and then denies that it has any relevance. 

Why bring it up in the first place.? 

 

The only relevance it has is to dismiss the stereotype that Rangers supporters are all unionists. 

[Rookiescot]

26 minutes ago, fangless said:

Why should we.  Who says the English want you to stay in the Union! 

 

Then why are you here arguing against it?

We both know the reason you cannot present a positive case for staying in the union.

[fangless]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

not legally binding. It was used in order to get people to turn out and vote.

What has legally binding got to do with anything?

What you are saying is that Scotland was lied to and you lied when you said it was a throw away comment and I have proved to you that it was not.

 

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, fangless said:

What has legally binding got to do with anything?

What you are saying is that Scotland was lied to and you lied when you said it was a throw away comment and I have proved to you that it was not.

 

 

It is a throw away comment. The same as dead in a ditch.

[rott]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

 

The only relevance it has is to dismiss the stereotype that Rangers supporters are all unionists. 

The subjects of religious or football affiliation had never been mentioned, there was no relevance and no point. 

[Rookiescot]

27 minutes ago, rott said:

The subjects of religious or football affiliation had never been mentioned, there was no relevance and no point. 

 

Not in this thread but in the thread I made that comment on it was.

[2530Ubon]

13 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

We can do it all again tomorrow

13 hours ago, fangless said:

No thank you!

What happened @fangless? Yesterday you were done!

"Just when I thought i was out, they pull me back in..."

Edited November 28, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[Libai]

Why do they keep harping on about a referendum? They had a 'once in a lifetime' vote in 2014 with the SNP losing. Now don't get me wrong, for I believe in freedom of speech and thought but to continually go on about something that is not as important as providing health, schooling and a million and one other things for the populace, is showing a one track mind that will be the loss for Scotland.  I would like the union to remain as it is, however if they vote to go, then good luck and goodbye.  

[shackleton]

I think its up to the people in Scotland if they want to be independent 

Let them have the vote  and if they vote yes

Let them get on with it 

Nothing to do with the rest of the U K its their decision

No doubt a few of the other Nations could go the same way in time

[Dogbarker]

Nicola Sturgeon .  Please be on notice the English want a referendum to dump Scotland out of the United Kingdom  and build a wall again .... and while we are at it we want an English assembly line the Welsh and Northern Ireland ... 

 Just getting feed up with all this....

[evadgib]

45 minutes ago, shackleton said:

I think its up to the people in Scotland if they want to be independent 

Let them have the vote  and if they vote yes

Let them get on with it 

Nothing to do with the rest of the U K its their decision

No doubt a few of the other Nations could go the same way in time

The union was between ???????????????????????????? and ???????????????????????????? (???????????????????????????? and ???????????????????????????? had already united during the reign of Henry Viii) with NI being bolted on a century ago. If there is to be a divorce IMO everyone should be polled & ???????????????????????????? will be on their way.

 

(& let's have none of that 'wot about the ?????????' They were never a sovereign state in the first place and have only been around for >30 years!).

Edited November 28, 2020 by evadgib

[robblok]

21 hours ago, Liverpoolfan said:

I am no brexiteer but I don't agree with a 2nd referendum on Scottish independence within the space of 5 years..

 

What happens when Sturgeon loses yet again?

another one 6 months down the line??

 

It's a load of pish. The Scottish people voted and they voted to remain part of the UK.

End of.

They voted that way before Brexit, this makes things totally different. Its about giving them a chance after a major event. Its not a rerun the situation is totally new. Too bad Brexiteers had not realized this. Its like buying a house in a certain place only to find out later the building plans have been changed. Its no longer the same house you wanted to buy.

 

When a situation changes dramatically a new vote is justified.  For instance if the EU wanted some big changes that were against what most Dutch wanted there would be a new vote on leave or not. Its only normal to vote when big thing changes.

 

Of course it will never be that in the eye of the Brexiteers they cant see what damage they done to their own country.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

The union was between ???????????????????????????? and ???????????????????????????? (???????????????????????????? and ???????????????????????????? had already united during the reign of Henry Viii) with NI being bolted on a century ago. If there is to be a divorce IMO everyone should be polled & ???????????????????????????? will be on their way.

 

(& let's have none of that 'wot about the ?????????' They were never a sovereign state in the first place and have only been around for >30 years!).

They were never a sovereign state as they were constantly invaded by the Brits. To conquer some country is different then to have union with them. The Eu let people vote to get in your union was build on violence. Scotland and Ireland were invaded bullied and forced to join. I guess you look at history from a different perspective. But the facts remain violence is what created your union not voting. They did not want to be part they were forced to be. Just like now.

[vogie]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

They were never a sovereign state as they were constantly invaded by the Brits. To conquer some country is different then to have union with them. The Eu let people vote to get in your union was build on violence. Scotland and Ireland were invaded bullied and forced to join. I guess you look at history from a different perspective. But the facts remain violence is what created your union not voting. They did not want to be part they were forced to be. Just like now.

Your constant berating of the Brits/English is beyond boring Rob. How far back in history do you want to travel before you realise that the British were a peacefull nation, we were invaded quite easily by the Romans, then when they left came your lot, the savage Frisians and Vikings. They instilled terror into our once peace loving nation, you really should be ashamed of yourself trying to blame the British all the time for everything that is wrong in your life. Without the barbaric Frisians (your lot) and the Vikings the peacefull Brits would probably still eating nuts and berries whilst morris dancing around the maypole with our legs draped with bells whilst singing Steeleye Span melodies.

Nobody forced the Scots to do anything, they failed at colonising the world and became bankrupt and had to come to the English to bail them out.

[NanLaew]

16 hours ago, rott said:

17 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Yes and yes.

 

The Scottish Parliament (Scottish Gaelic: Pàrlamaid na h-Alba; Scots: Scots Pairlament) is the devolved, unicameral legislature of Scotland.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament

The Scottish Unionists that I know say differently, hence my confusion. 

Tell them that they're allowed to post their definition on wikipedia.