Brexit negotiations restart in person as clock ticks down

[rooster59]

Brexit negotiations restart in person as clock ticks down

 

European Union's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier wearing a protective face mask is seen in London, Britain November 28, 2020. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Face-to-face negotiations between Britain and the European Union over a trade deal restarted on Saturday, in a last-ditch attempt to find agreement with just five weeks to go before their current relationship ends.

 

EU negotiator Michel Barnier arrived for talks in London on Saturday morning. He said on Friday night that he was "very happy" to be back in the city and would keep working with "patience and determination".

 

Barnier and Britain's chief negotiator David Frost are working to secure a deal before the UK's transition period with the EU ends on Dec. 31. Both sides are calling for the other to compromise on the three main issues of contention - fishing, state aid and how to resolve any future disputes.

 

Britain left the bloc on Jan. 31 this year and a "no-deal" final exit would snarl borders, spook financial markets and disrupt delicate supply chains that stretch across Europe and beyond -- just as the world grapples with the vast economic cost of the COVID-19 outbreak.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson spoke to Irish Taoiseach Micheal Martin on Friday evening. Johnson underlined his commitment to reaching a deal that respects the sovereignty of the UK, according to a UK statement.

 

On the major sticking point of fishing, some media reports on Friday suggested that Britain had rejected an EU proposal on the value of fish quota that European fleets catch in British waters that are due to be restored to the UK.

 

The Telegraph newspaper reported that the EU was set to concede on Brexit fishing rights.

 

(Reporting by Sarah Young; Editing by Frances Kerry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-28

 

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[Rookiescot]

Its pretty obvious. Either the UK (Brexiteers) accept what the EU is offering or its no deal.

Its already been made clear. Now the Brexiteers can huff and puff but its a one sided game because the larger trade entity always dictates what the smaller entity gets.

At this point Brexiteers will do their usual and scream OK NO DEAL THEN but thankfully its actually grown ups who are going to resolve this absolute shambles.

Get used to it guys. You were warned before the referendum took place that this is where we would end up.

You knew what you were voting for and this is it.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

45 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

but thankfully its actually grown ups who are going to resolve this absolute shambles

Really? Who do you have in mind? Boris?

[OneMoreFarang]

A deal might happen, or maybe not.

Personally I don't think it will happen. Obviously a deal would make sense. And the UK needs a deal a lot more than the EU.

But one way or the other, life with Brexit will be difficult for the UK. And if Boris should somehow explain why he gave in to the EU he will have a big problem.

I guess for Boris and others it's so much easier to blame the EU. Brexit could be wonderful if only the EU would have been nice to us...

Let's see.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really? Who do you have in mind? Boris?

No Mr Barnier of course, it has been reported that he is prepared to allow the UK to have 18% more British fish caught in British waters, now doesn't that really show what a kind and considerate man he really is.

[Dumbastheycome]

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

No Mr Barnier of course, it has been reported that he is prepared to allow the UK to have 18% more British fish caught in British waters, now doesn't that really show what a kind and considerate man he really is.

Is them  fish on a  buy back then? Like  you  catch em, we  get  18 % exstra back on quota?  Or we  gotta  catch  ourselvses?

[mfd101]

Gosh, it's so exciting! The suspense!

 

Do you think they'll turn it into a movie? or better still, a reality show, with Donald Trump playing the part of Boris. Golly, he wouldn't even need to act!

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, vogie said:

No Mr Barnier of course, it has been reported that he is prepared to allow the UK to have 18% more British fish caught in British waters, now doesn't that really show what a kind and considerate man he really is.

And it must be really hard for all those Brits to be nice to such a guy who wants all their fish. How should the UK survive without the fish in their water? Or should I ask: How did they survived that in the last decades?

[vogie]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And it must be really hard for all those Brits to be nice to such a guy who wants all their fish. How should the UK survive without the fish in their water? Or should I ask: How did they survived that in the last decades?

I don't think you understand what sovereignty means, my take on it is we should say what happens in our waters and not Mr Barnier. The whole point in leaving the EU was to regain sovereignty and not still be dictated to by the EU, now this might be a difficult concept for some people to come to terms with, but trust me, it is not difficult.

Would you like your next door neighbour to keep walking into your garden and pulling up your prized pansies or ripping up your roses, and to have him say to you 'don't worry, you have survived for the last decades', come on now, you would be livid.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I don't think you understand what sovereignty means, my take on it is we should say what happens in our waters and not Mr Barnier. The whole point in leaving the EU was to regain sovereignty and not still be dictated to by the EU, now this might be a difficult concept for some people to come to terms with, but trust me, it is not difficult.

Would you like your next door neighbour to keep walking into your garden and pulling up your prized pansies or ripping up your roses, and to have him say to you 'don't worry, you have survived for the last decades', come on now, you would be livid.

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them. And if they accept anything that they don't really want then they give up a little sovereignty. And that's how it works with the US, EU, China, India, any country in this word. Except obviously the bigger player have a much better chance to get what they want.

[Aforek]

Sovereignty is an illlusion in 2021 ; you can't leave on you own , I think that Britain is going a dangerous way, but it's their   problem; I am happy that my country stays in EU 

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them. And if they accept anything that they don't really want then they give up a little sovereignty. And that's how it works with the US, EU, China, India, any country in this word. Except obviously the bigger player have a much better chance to get what they want.

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

Sovereignty and working together are two different things all together and never the twain shall meet.

 

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them.

Do you think you are over egging this chlorinated chicken lark, the US washes the chickens with chlorine, no big deal, it rids the chickens of any harmfull bacteria, just the same as the EU washes certain produce of theirs with chlorine. I haven't seen any Americans strolling around Pattaya with glowing green noses or purple eyes, not many anyway. Why don't you ever bring the way the EU uses chlorine to wash their produce?

We do not and indeed will not sell our souls to the devil just to get a free trade deal with the US, it would be nice, but it is not the be all and end all. At the moment we are running a quite healthy trade surplus with the US, whilst with the EU we are running a deficit. So we will be just fine if everything stays as it is, but to be blackmailed into getting a trade deal is certainly not the way the UK operates.

So well done for getting the president of your dreams, he is only president because he is not Trump and not because he is Irish Joe, and as sure as eggs are eggs, he won't be there for ever.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

14 hours ago, vogie said:

No Mr Barnier of course, it has been reported that he is prepared to allow the UK to have 18% more British fish caught in British waters, now doesn't that really show what a kind and considerate man he really is.

He’s not paid to be ‘kind and considerate’.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

Sovereignty and working together are two different things all together and never the twain shall meet.

 

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them.

Do you think you are over egging this chlorinated chicken lark, the US washes the chickens with chlorine, no big deal, it rids the chickens of any harmfull bacteria, just the same as the EU washes certain produce of theirs with chlorine. I haven't seen any Americans strolling around Pattaya with glowing green noses or purple eyes, not many anyway. Why don't you ever bring the way the EU uses chlorine to wash their produce?

We do not and indeed will not sell our souls to the devil just to get a free trade deal with the US, it would be nice, but it is not the be all and end all. At the moment we are running a quite healthy trade surplus with the US, whilst with the EU we are running a deficit. So we will be just fine if everything stays as it is, but to be blackmailed into getting a trade deal is certainly not the way the UK operates.

So well done for getting the president of your dreams, he is only president because he is not Trump and not because he is Irish Joe, and as sure as eggs are eggs, he won't be there for ever.

 

 

 

Don’t focus too much on the ‘chlorinated chicken’, it’s a tiny part of what the US is going to force the UK to swallow.

 

You’ll find warnings of going cap in hand to Washington begging for a trade deal filed under ‘project fear’.

 

And what US industry lobbyist demand from a US/UK trade deal is nothing to do with who is President or indeed which political party holds the Presidency.

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He’s not paid to be ‘kind and considerate’.

Well guess what, neither is Mr Frost.

 

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Don’t focus too much on the ‘chlorinated chicken’, it’s a tiny part of what the US is going to force the UK to swallow.

 

You’ll find warnings of going cap in hand to Washington begging for a trade deal filed under ‘project fear’.

 

And what US industry lobbyist demand from a US/UK trade deal is nothing to do with who is President or indeed which political party holds the Presidency.

What is the difference between US chlorinated produce and EU chlorinated produce?

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Well guess what, neither is Mr Frost.

 

What is the difference between US chlorinated produce and EU chlorinated produce?

One’s a distraction.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

One’s a distraction.

There is no difference, except to say that the EU chlorinated produce is used to clean their produce whilst the US chlorinated produce is used to hit Brexiteers over the head with.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

There is no difference, except to say that the EU chlorinated produce is used to clean their produce whilst the US chlorinated produce is used to hit Brexiteers over the head with.

What EU ‘products’ are treated with chlorine?

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What EU ‘products’ are treated with chlorine?

EU salads are washed in chlorine and of course our very own drinking water has chlorine in it, what you have to realise is that chlorine is a processing aid and not an ingredient. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

Sovereignty and working together are two different things all together and never the twain shall meet.

 

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them.

Do you think you are over egging this chlorinated chicken lark, the US washes the chickens with chlorine, no big deal, it rids the chickens of any harmfull bacteria, just the same as the EU washes certain produce of theirs with chlorine. I haven't seen any Americans strolling around Pattaya with glowing green noses or purple eyes, not many anyway. Why don't you ever bring the way the EU uses chlorine to wash their produce?

We do not and indeed will not sell our souls to the devil just to get a free trade deal with the US, it would be nice, but it is not the be all and end all. At the moment we are running a quite healthy trade surplus with the US, whilst with the EU we are running a deficit. So we will be just fine if everything stays as it is, but to be blackmailed into getting a trade deal is certainly not the way the UK operates.

So well done for getting the president of your dreams, he is only president because he is not Trump and not because he is Irish Joe, and as sure as eggs are eggs, he won't be there for ever.

 

 

 

The point is if you want absolute soverreignty, don't sign treaties or trade agreements. If they are at all meaningful they will require certain restrictions in exchange for certain privileges.

Unless, of course, it turns out that Brexit really is magic.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I understand the concept of sovereignty. And I also understand that in todays world countries and groups of countries have to work together. Not just the UK and the EU.

Sovereignty and working together are two different things all together and never the twain shall meet.

 

I.e. the UK wants to have a free trade agreement with the USA. How does that work? Both countries have to agree on many issues. I.e. maybe the UK tells the US "we don't want chlorinated chicken". "And you can't touch the NHS". Maybe the USA agrees on that but more likely they will tell the UK: If you don't allow us to do this and that then there won't be a free trade agreement and you won't have the opportunities a, b and c. And that's the point were the UK has to decide if they accept certain conditions which they don't really like or if they don't accept them.

Do you think you are over egging this chlorinated chicken lark, the US washes the chickens with chlorine, no big deal, it rids the chickens of any harmfull bacteria, just the same as the EU washes certain produce of theirs with chlorine. I haven't seen any Americans strolling around Pattaya with glowing green noses or purple eyes, not many anyway. Why don't you ever bring the way the EU uses chlorine to wash their produce?

We do not and indeed will not sell our souls to the devil just to get a free trade deal with the US, it would be nice, but it is not the be all and end all. At the moment we are running a quite healthy trade surplus with the US, whilst with the EU we are running a deficit. So we will be just fine if everything stays as it is, but to be blackmailed into getting a trade deal is certainly not the way the UK operates.

So well done for getting the president of your dreams, he is only president because he is not Trump and not because he is Irish Joe, and as sure as eggs are eggs, he won't be there for ever.

 

Maybe you should read about why US chickens are cleaned that way. There is a reason for that. And that's the reason why many countries don't want that s$@&.

If you don't even understand that then I don't have much hope you will understand more complicated issues.

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Unless, of course, it turns out that Brexit really is magic.

 

[luckyluke]

If indeed sovereignty is that important, fishing in British waters by non- Britons should never have been tolerated ( no quota should have been sold out to foreign hands).

 

In my opinion it is a pure mercantile state of affairs, this sovereignty thing is a lame excuse.

 

Now I have no problem at all, that a country try to get the most out of the deal, if a foreign country wants to buy/ lease/use it, or whatever, some of the resources of that said country.

 

In other words Lord Frost should have said/say to Mr. Barnier : 

 

"you want to continue to fish in our waters, well it is that much".

 

Than up to negotiations.

Edited November 29, 2020 by luckyluke

[vogie]

23 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The point is if you want absolute soverreignty, don't sign treaties or trade agreements. If they are at all meaningful they will require certain restrictions in exchange for certain privileges.

Unless, of course, it turns out that Brexit really is magic.

I have news for you, I didn't sign it, other than that you have a complete fixation on the WA, nobody is interested in what you personally think, Boris will do what is best for our nation and not what is best for the EU, sorry you don't like it, not. May started all this nonsense and Boris is still trying to unravel the mess she caused, we will not, repeat, will not trap ourselves into a situation where it would be difficult to negotiate our way out. As I said I am not interested in what you think only what will be benificial to our country and you can go on about for as long as you like as it will not make a blind bit of difference at the end of the day. Here is Andrea Leadsom talking about, I sure you won't take it on board, you never listen to what people tell you.

[vogie]

27 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you should read about why US chickens are cleaned that way. There is a reason for that. And that's the reason why many countries don't want that s$@&.

If you don't even understand that then I don't have much hope you will understand more complicated issues.

I don't care what you think I understand or what I don't understand, but I do know that the Euros have a tendancy to make a very small mole holehill into a very big mountain. 

You should get your own chicken house welfare in order before you start to criticise others.

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

I have news for you, I didn't sign it, other than that you have a complete fixation on the WA, nobody is interested in what you personally think, Boris will do what is best for our nation and not what is best for the EU, sorry you don't like it, not. May started all this nonsense and Boris is still trying to unravel the mess she caused, we will not, repeat, will not trap ourselves into a situation where it would be difficult to negotiate our way out. As I said I am not interested in what you think only what will be benificial to our country and you can go on about for as long as you like as it will not make a blind bit of difference at the end of the day. Here is Andrea Leadsom talking about, I sure you won't take it on board, you never listen to what people tell you.

 

Whereas what you think is of great importance to the present day issues?  Ad for no one caring about what I think, who deputized you to speak for everyone? Don't fancy yourself too much, do you? And you apparently have no rational response to offer on the nature of treaties and such so you deflect by making it personal. 

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Whereas what you think is of great importance to the present day issues?  Ad for no one caring about what I think, who deputized you to speak for everyone? Don't fancy yourself too much, do you? And you apparently have no rational response to offer on the nature of treaties and such so you deflect by making it personal. 

You have spent a whole week on another thread discussing this very issue and getting nowhere with it, so you decide to bring it on here, and that with your constant going on about WW2 I am bored with it. On ignore

[luckyluke]

35 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris will do what is best for our nation

 

And that's what he is  of course suppose to do.

 

 

Mr. Barnier have been instructed to do the best for the E.U., and that's what he is doing.

 

It is a very difficult duty, which may result for the 2 parties in a :

 

"Mission non  accomplished" 

 

There will be than, on both sides,  a lot of statements why it failed, with certainly the blaming of the other party for not have being fair-minded/reasonable.

 

 

 

[nauseus]

39 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

And that's what he is  of course suppose to do.

 

 

Mr. Barnier have been instructed to do the best for the E.U., and that's what he is doing.

 

It is a very difficult duty, which may result for the 2 parties in a :

 

"Mission non  accomplished" 

 

There will be than, on both sides,  a lot of statements why it failed, with certainly the blaming of the other party for not have being fair-minded/reasonable.

 

 

 

 

I agree. M. Barnier has a very difficult job. The EU comprises of 27 states which all have their own interests and priorities; that's why it takes eons for anything to happen. 

[luckyluke]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I agree. M. Barnier has a very difficult job. The EU comprises of 27 states which all have their own interests and priorities; that's why it takes eons for anything to happen. 

Good that the U.K. has patience.

Now why they have so much patience, is open to interpretation.