11 hours ago, placnx said:

With appeals Trump is unlikely to be definitively convicted by 2024. Would he take a plea bargain? If he or his front man is in power in 2025, Trump could get a pardon!!

State convictions can not be allowed to be pardoned. Education is important 

1 hour ago, looking on the bright side said:

I can like who I want,  you can like Biden, I can like Trump. Why are you so nervous? I don't mind you like Biden. Yes, the anti-Trump group has started to divide in 2016. Just look how you react at my viewpoint,  attacked  in a few seconds. That is what I am talking about. And communists are like that too. 

Typical rant from the alt right.  Claiming Dems are "radical liberals" or communists.  But if we say something like that about Trump's supporters, you get upset.  Claim we're attacking you.  Right....

 

It's OK to support Trump.  Just admit to his many issues.  Telling porkies is the biggest one.

2 hours ago, looking on the bright side said:

The postal ballots and mail-in votes are always risky,  shouldn't be allowed .Of course,  in such  voting  system   a fraud is possible and highly likely to happen. There is a bitter division in the US, like there are two Americas and two tribes turned against each other. The two tribes have different cultural values , based on different ethnicity and race. Now they are grouping and digging in. In the first place this situation has  been created by the anti-Trump tribe which couldn't accept he was duly elected in 2016, and his presidency has been sabotaged  relentlessly. Now, the media declared  winner in 2020 elections , who is not yet confirmed as an elected president, may also not be accepted  and approved by the opposing party , the supporters of president Trump.  What goes round, comes round

Many states have been doing postal ballots and mail in votes for decades.  Going back a few hundred years.  The process is quite solid with little fraud.  Yes, it's possible, but insignificant.  As proven by Trump's hand picked committed who investigated this and found nothing.  I'm guessing you missed that investigation?  Or ignored it.

 

Politics has turned tribal.  Due to the politicians.  Mainly due to Trump.  And before that, a black man being elected.  Racist white people couldn't deal with that.

 

P.S. The media declared the winner in 2016 also.  Trump.  It's over.  Time to focus on the 3,000+ who are dying every day.

Trump's picked another loser for a lawyer for this one.  Figures.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/john-eastman-trump-texas-kamala-harris/index.html

Attorney representing Trump in Texas dispute pushed racist conspiracy about Kamala Harris

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

Add to that the fact that the Constitution will never be amended again, because achieving the trifecta of super-majorities in the House, the Senate, and the states is impossible in the current polarized political climate.  The only solution is a new constitutional convention to write a new constitution from the ground up.

and given that, IMO, all the states would have to agree to write a new constitution, or accept a new one, what chances do you give that happening in a way that liberals would like? LOL.

Edited December 11, 20205 yr by thaibeachlovers

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and given that, IMO, all the states would have to agree to write a new constitution, or accept a new one, what chances do you give that happening in a way that liberals would like? LOL.

Some things are not a matter of opinion. Like convening for a Constitutional convention. A 2/3 majority of states is what the Constitution stipulates.

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Some things are not a matter of opinion. Like convening for a Constitutional convention. A 2/3 majority of states is what the Constitution stipulates.

Even if they could get enough support to pass a popular vote for president, that would IMO lead to secession of some states

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even if they could get enough support to pass a popular vote for president, that would IMO lead to secession of some states

Well, since previously you invoked IMO to claim that it would require a unanimity of states to hold a Constitutional convention, you've given us some idea of what it's worth.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even if they could get enough support to pass a popular vote for president, that would IMO lead to secession of some states

Secession would probably never happen.  My father is from Michigan and we witnessed the failed campaign of the north to become it's own state.

 

I lived in CA for decades and witnessed the same thing.  It's a really hard thing to get the entire population to agree on this.

On 12/10/2020 at 6:04 AM, riclag said:

 Good development ,strength in numbers !

This is how the democratic process works!

Good for you America

The numbers, whether it be: electoral college votes, the popular vote, states which do not support legal action, state legislatures (Democrat and Republican led) which reject The President's attempts to bully them,or the overwhelming number of court cases thrown out for lack of evidence; are all overwhelmingly in favour of Mr Biden having won the election.

 

Good for you America!

3 hours ago, looking on the bright side said:

The postal ballots and mail-in votes are always risky,  shouldn't be allowed .Of course,  in such  voting  system   a fraud is possible and highly likely to happen. There is a bitter division in the US, like there are two Americas and two tribes turned against each other. The two tribes have different cultural values , based on different ethnicity and race. Now they are grouping and digging in. In the first place this situation has  been created by the anti-Trump tribe which couldn't accept he was duly elected in 2016, and his presidency has been sabotaged  relentlessly. Now, the media declared  winner in 2020 elections , who is not yet confirmed as an elected president, may also not be accepted  and approved by the opposing party , the supporters of president Trump.  What goes round, comes round

 

"... created by the anti-Trump tribe which couldn't accept he was duly elected in 2016".

 

I'd like to offer a different perspective.  I think the anti-Trump tribe in 2016 could not accept his winning the election, because they feared that as President he would be an agent of mayhem.  And I think now we're seeing that their concerns were legitimate.  He's causing havoc about this election.  It's what he always does.  

 

If there were some legitimate proof that there was fraud in this election, I'd be happy to consider it.  As a matter of fact, at this point I'd love to see this case taken up by the Supreme Court, where the facts were laid out by Trump's side, so that the Justices could determine unequivocally that the election was legitimate, and that there wasn't fraud sufficient enough to change the outcome of the election.  And not merely refuse to hear the case.  I think that without hearing the case and making a determination, the chorus will continue for the next 4 years caterwauling that Trump was robbed and that Biden was not a legitimate President.  

 

I think there are weaknesses in our election process.  Let's consider ways to make elections even safer and more fair for the future, so there's no question of legitimacy.  This election is over, and has been deemed carried out in a fair and non-fraudulent manner.  If you have misgivings, let's work together to fix the system for future elections.  

 

 

3 hours ago, looking on the bright side said:

The postal ballots and mail-in votes are always risky,  shouldn't be allowed .Of course,  in such  voting  system   a fraud is possible and highly likely to happen. There is a bitter division in the US, like there are two Americas and two tribes turned against each other. The two tribes have different cultural values , based on different ethnicity and race. Now they are grouping and digging in. In the first place this situation has  been created by the anti-Trump tribe which couldn't accept he was duly elected in 2016, and his presidency has been sabotaged  relentlessly. Now, the media declared  winner in 2020 elections , who is not yet confirmed as an elected president, may also not be accepted  and approved by the opposing party , the supporters of president Trump.  What goes round, comes round

So by not allowing mail in votes, how do people with physical disabilities vote?Without transport on polling day?

 Those who cannot reach a voting station become disenfranchised, Those who will be overseas, or in hospital?

My dilusional thinking was that there was a concept of one person , one vote, not excluding frail, the impoverished, those with disabilites.

Perhaps a reading of the Declaration of Human Rights would assist the nay sayers?

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 20205 yr by RJRS1301

Perhaps a lesson from all this chaos is the opportunity for a reform of the system to ensure that these claims cannot made again?

Learn from the mayhem and grow, or is that too Pollyannaish?

 

9 minutes ago, mtraveler said:

I'd love to see this case taken up by the Supreme Court, where the facts were laid out by Trump's side, so that the Justices could determine unequivocally that the election was legitimate, and that there wasn't fraud sufficient enough to change the outcome of the election. 

So would every voter capable of critical thinking. It's painfully obvious to those who DO possess this ability that the election is over, there was no fraud, else it would have been exposed in any of the 50+ lawsuits that were thrown out of the courts, many with messages from the judges to stop the nonsense. The world is looking aghast at the flimsy transparent attempt by shyster lawyers to overturn a fair election. No self respecting attorney would take on a case like this, so all they were left with is Rudy.

 

 

Edited December 11, 20205 yr by J Town

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Trump's picked another loser for a lawyer for this one.  Figures.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/john-eastman-trump-texas-kamala-harris/index.html

Attorney representing Trump in Texas dispute pushed racist conspiracy about Kamala Harris

Who would have thunked it :)??

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and given that, IMO, all the states would have to agree to write a new constitution, or accept a new one, what chances do you give that happening in a way that liberals would like? LOL.

There is no chance at all right now.  Since, however we know that within twenty years half of the voters will be concentrated in only eight states, it is not likely to escape everyone's notice that half the voters will have a lot less than half of the electoral votes and will therefore be underrepresented in the Electoral College.  The pressure for change will build.

 

Stay tuned.  You heard it here first.

Edited December 11, 20205 yr by cmarshall

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Some things are not a matter of opinion. Like convening for a Constitutional convention. A 2/3 majority of states is what the Constitution stipulates.

Just to be clear, I am not calling for an Article V constitutional convention whose purpose would be to amend the Constitution and which would indeed require the participation of 2/3 of the state.  That method would never work, because the demographic shifts that are coming will advantage the less populous states to the detriment of the majority much more than is even now the case.  Therefore, it is unlikely that those states would ever agree to such a convention.

 

I am calling for an illegal constitutional convention to overthrow the current US Constitution and replace it from top to bottom with a more modern and more democratic constitution.  The precedents for just such an illegal constitutional convention are the illegal Continental Congress of 1776 which declared independence and the illegal Constitutional Convention of 1787 which wrote a new constitution to replace the Articles of Confederation.  The convention of 1787 was indeed illegal, because the Articles made a provision for amendment, but none for its complete replacement, which the Convention nevertheless undertook.

 

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Typical rant from the alt right.  Claiming Dems are "radical liberals" or communists.  But if we say something like that about Trump's supporters, you get upset.  Claim we're attacking you.  Right....

 

It's OK to support Trump.  Just admit to his many issues.  Telling porkies is the biggest one.

 

Actually, it is not okay to support 45, at least if one has a modicum of decency and cares about the ideals of the United States. Disliking 45 is not a matter of opinion, it is more basic: good vs evil.

 

Kids in cages, separating families, the Moslem Ban, and now attacks against the very fabric of democracy...THAT is 45. He is everything the US is NOT supposed to be, and everything every faith ever invented warns that people should not be.

 

I will not invoke Godwin's Law here, but it is appropriate.

PA has filed its response to SCOTUS re the silly Texas lawsuit. Here’s a short part of it:

“Texas has not suffered harm simply because it dislikes the results of the election, and nothing in the text, history, or structure of the Constitution supports texas’s view that it can dictate the manner in which four other States run their elections……Texas does not seek to have the Court interpret the Constitution, so much as disregard it…..The Court should not abide this seditious abuse of the judicial process, and should send a clear and unmistakable signal that such abuse must never be replicated.”

17 hours ago, Scott Tracy said:

On 12/9/2020 at 3:04 PM, riclag said:

 Good development ,strength in numbers !

This is how the democratic process works!

Good for you America

 

I thought the ballot box was how it worked. The person who wins the most votes, wins the Presidency. Or is that just in every other country in the world that has Presidential elections?

 

As Giuliani said "elections are decided by courts."

 

 

47 minutes ago, mtraveler said:

I think that without hearing the case and making a determination, the chorus will continue for the next 4 years caterwauling that Trump was robbed and that Biden was not a legitimate President.  

IMO you are 100% correct about that. IMO 70 + million Americans and many of the GOP politicians do not consider the election to have been without major fraud, and if the SCOTUS does not make a considered ruling this will be a thorn in Biden's term, however long it may be.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you are 100% correct about that. IMO 70 + million Americans and many of the GOP politicians do not consider the election to have been without major fraud, and if the SCOTUS does not make a considered ruling this will be a thorn in Biden's term, however long it may be.

Those who believe there is fraud in spite of the absence of credible evidence will continue to believe so regardless of a court ruling.  Look at all the court rulings they are actively ignoring now.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Even if they could get enough support to pass a popular vote for president, that would IMO lead to secession of some states

Many of those states would be much poorer places without the Federal spending that takes place in them.  https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/sr139.pdf

 

If they're dumb enough to secede, it will be much easier for the taxpayers in the rest of the country.

4 hours ago, looking on the bright side said:

The postal ballots and mail-in votes are always risky,  shouldn't be allowed .Of course,  in such  voting  system   a fraud is possible and highly likely to happen. There is a bitter division in the US, like there are two Americas and two tribes turned against each other. The two tribes have different cultural values , based on different ethnicity and race. Now they are grouping and digging in. In the first place this situation has  been created by the anti-Trump tribe which couldn't accept he was duly elected in 2016, and his presidency has been sabotaged  relentlessly. Now, the media declared  winner in 2020 elections , who is not yet confirmed as an elected president, may also not be accepted  and approved by the opposing party , the supporters of president Trump.  What goes round, comes round

Almost two thirds of Florida's registered voters voted by mail or early drop off in the November election.  https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article246661198.html

 

Trump doesn't seem to have a problem with them.  Should we throw out the Florida votes?

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you are 100% correct about that. IMO 70 + million Americans and many of the GOP politicians do not consider the election to have been without major fraud, and if the SCOTUS does not make a considered ruling this will be a thorn in Biden's term, however long it may be.

the courts have already decided. Trump supporters havent accepted those rulings and now want a court that has no juridiction to hear a claim with no basis in fact.

4 minutes ago, Sujo said:

the courts have already decided. Trump supporters havent accepted those rulings and now want a court that has no juridiction to hear a claim with no basis in fact.

You omitted to put "in my opinion" as that's all it is, and the SCOTUS is the highest court so till it rules the doubt will always remain.

Most of us know that courts get it wrong sometimes, which is why there is a SCOTUS.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You omitted to put "in my opinion" as that's all it is, and the SCOTUS is the highest court so till it rules the doubt will always remain.

Most of us know that courts get it wrong sometimes, which is why there is a SCOTUS.

Got it wrong 54 times out of 55??

 

16 hours ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

You know what this lawsuit by Texas is? it is The Titanic going down and this lawsuit is the part where only the bow is left in the air and all of MAGA is crowded at the top gripping the rails as the ship plunges into the sea...bon voyage President Trump. Let the scramble for the life boats (in this case, Pardons) commence....

 

That's too classy of an analogy, IMO it's like the season finale of a reality show.

Will Brad give the rose to Ashley or Jenna?

Will Chuck be able to swim to the next island without being attacked by a shark?

Will Nicole complete her rehab or go downtown to score heroin?

Tune in next time . . .

But not really the finale, next episode after this will be January 6th

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/04/how-trump-allies-congress-can-launch-one-more-challenge-bidens-win-january/

 

As for the current coup initiative I'm anticipating someone on SCOTUS (Alito/Thomas or Roberts) issuing a "cut out this idiocy" missive.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm also anticipating something heinous happening.  Soon.

 

 

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Those who believe there is fraud in spite of the absence of credible evidence will continue to believe so regardless of a court ruling.  Look at all the court rulings they are actively ignoring now.

 

Maybe I'm just dreaming, but if the question of the election is decided by the Supreme Court, with 1/3 of the Justices having been selected by Trump, perhaps that will put an end to things.  Knowing that the Supreme Court is the last stop on the line, any and all evidence and proof of fraud would need to be presented at that time.  Maybe the rendering of a decision by the top court in the land will create some finality.  

 

Like I said, maybe I'm just dreaming...

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you are 100% correct about that. IMO 70 + million Americans and many of the GOP politicians do not consider the election to have been without major fraud, and if the SCOTUS does not make a considered ruling this will be a thorn in Biden's term, however long it may be.

555! Biden has already laughed this off. The nasty, vindictive way 45 and his supporters have behaved will be a pebble in Joe's shoe, soon to be cleared out when he delivers a solid boot to 45's rear end.