UK tells EU: back down by Sunday night or we'll walk

[Hi from France]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

Time for a reality check rookie.

a reality check, mate ? Or a reality checkmate  ?

 

I'm not just watching brexit, i'm watching the Queen's gambit????

 

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

a reality check, mate ? Or a reality checkmate  ?

 

I'm not just watching brexit, i'm watching the Queen's gambit????

 

 

For where I am it looks like the EU has gone stale mate.

[david555]

Brexit trade deal possible within days after Johnson concession, says EU
Barnier says PM’s acceptance of need for ‘evolution clause’ as standards diverge has unlocked talks

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu

Daniel Boffey in Brussels and Jon Henley in Paris
Mon 14 Dec 2020 17.04 GMTFirst published on Mon 14 Dec 2020 11.54 GMT

A post-Brexit trade and security deal could be sealed as early as this week after Boris Johnson made a key concession at the weekend but the pathway to agreement remained “very narrow”, Michel Barnier told ambassadors and MEPs in Brussels.

 

The EU’s chief negotiator said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need to ensure that there was fair competition for British and European businesses as regulatory standards diverged over time had unlocked the talks despite difficult issues remaining.

 

“For the first time,” Barnier said, the UK government had “accepted a mechanism of unilateral measures”, such as tariffs, where there were “systemic divergences which distort trade and investment”. “But this mechanism needs to be credible, effective and quick,” he added. “We are working on this.”

[Susco]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Yeah, screw the workers. Maybe we should reduce minimum wage and healthcare to Chinese levels so we can compete with China. Zero hours contracts all round. A race to the bottom.

 

Finally you got it, that this is exactly what will have to be done in the UK to stay competitive, if they leave with no deal.

 

Someone has to compensate for those added tariffs, and i can tell you, it's not the companies who gone lower their profits

[Susco]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Apart from the first one (we know Boris can bend the truth), please provide proof of your other 2 'facts'.

Try to keep up with the news that was released since Sunday

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

the Queen's gambit

Brilliant.....watched in one sitting....

[robblok]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Untrue.

 

There are plenty of EU citizens coming to the UK to undercut the wages of the existing UK workers who are quite happy to do the job. Polish brickies for example, working on incredibly low wages and putting UK brickies out of work. Great for the huge home building companies who can get cheap Polish labour but not so good for the British man on the street who lays bricks for a living. Still, what do you care? You're retired so you can virtue signal about your love of open borders and all things European while moaning about the weakness of the pound (which let's face it is your major gripe) due to that pesky Brexit. 

 

If you think Brexit won't make a difference to the scenario above then I would suggest you do not understand freedom of movement or the job market.

 

We will allow the unskilled workers we need. For example, if we need fruit pickers we will allow fruit pickers. If we don't need brickies, brickies will not be on the list of required professions. Similar to how Australia manages it. You should check it out, might learn something. 

 

6 Million from Hong Kong? ???? I've told you a zillion times not to exaggerate.

I find it a bit strange you talk about undercutting prices on labor and finding that bad but when the EU sets it as a rule that you can't do that on EU level you seem to find it bad. Is that a split personality ?

[CG1 Blue]

50 minutes ago, Susco said:

Try to keep up with the news that was released since Sunday

I keep up with the news. I'm not aware of any news that backs up the two claims I referred to. If you are, please share and explain. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Brexit trade deal possible within days after Johnson concession, says EU
Barnier says PM’s acceptance of need for ‘evolution clause’ as standards diverge has unlocked talks

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu

Daniel Boffey in Brussels and Jon Henley in Paris
Mon 14 Dec 2020 17.04 GMTFirst published on Mon 14 Dec 2020 11.54 GMT

A post-Brexit trade and security deal could be sealed as early as this week after Boris Johnson made a key concession at the weekend but the pathway to agreement remained “very narrow”, Michel Barnier told ambassadors and MEPs in Brussels.

 

The EU’s chief negotiator said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need to ensure that there was fair competition for British and European businesses as regulatory standards diverged over time had unlocked the talks despite difficult issues remaining.

 

“For the first time,” Barnier said, the UK government had “accepted a mechanism of unilateral measures”, such as tariffs, where there were “systemic divergences which distort trade and investment”. “But this mechanism needs to be credible, effective and quick,” he added. “We are working on this.”

Seems BJ gave in his bluff was called and he folded. Its not good to try to bluff when the other side knows your not holding good cards. 

[Surelynot]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

Seems BJ gave in his bluff was called and he folded.

Looks like another fold on its way..........he has got to get a decent hand eventually... 

[Surelynot]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Nope. I criticise him for making claims (such as the one in the title of this thread) and then consistently back tracking and making u turns. The man’s a joke. 

This might help clarify where BJ is coming from......

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-activists-trump-wellingborough-fake-news-b1774341.html

Edited December 15, 2020 by Surelynot

[robblok]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Apart from the first one (we know Boris can bend the truth), please provide proof of your other 2 'facts'. Or is it you who is the liar? ????

 

 

Did you not read the news, he caved he did not walk like he said he would. Please keep up with the news so all 3 are true. He was adamant, I walk Sunday night if no deal is reached. Not only did he not walk he also gave in during negotiations. 

[robblok]

32 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

This might help clarify where BJ is coming from......

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-activists-trump-wellingborough-fake-news-b1774341.html

That is scary, but i mentioned before that Brexiteers and Trump supporters have many similar things. I was laughed at but unfortunately the truth is even scarier. To even consider doing something like this is anti democratic.

 

[473geo]

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

Did you not read the news, he caved he did not walk like he said he would. Please keep up with the news so all 3 are true. He was adamant, I walk Sunday night if no deal is reached. Not only did he not walk he also gave in during negotiations. 

I really didn't have you down as naive in the art of negotiation Rob

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I really didn't have you down as naive in the art of negotiation Rob

Its not me who is naïve, its him. I predicted this to happen. Everyone with half a brain could see that. 

 

But the die hard Brexiteers here were telling everyone the UK had the good cards. If that was true why did he fold ?

 

The one who are naïve are the Brexiteers who believe him. He is giving in more and more while he said to his base he would not. 

 

You do understand for people to believe a bluff you need to convince them you got good cards. But even a blind man could see the UK is not holding the cards the EU is. The fact that the UK is giving in more and more shows this. If they had the stronger position the EU would be caving would they not ?

[vinny41]

39 minutes ago, robblok said:

Did you not read the news, he caved he did not walk like he said he would. Please keep up with the news so all 3 are true. He was adamant, I walk Sunday night if no deal is reached. Not only did he not walk he also gave in during negotiations. 

Its Clear you don't play chess sometimes it to your advantage to sacrifice a pawn

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its Clear you don't play chess sometimes it to your advantage to sacrifice a pawn

Chess, I played it, not often but good enough to hold my own. But good lets keep the chess analogy going though I see this more as poker with a bad hand and the opponent knowing you have a bad hand.

 

For your analogy to work there must be an advantage. What advantage did he win that he not already had. 

[GrandPapillon]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Brilliant.....watched in one sitting....

awesome show, and very addictive, the lead actress was quite the revelation

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

Chess, I played it, not often but good enough to hold my own. But good lets keep the chess analogy going though I see this more as poker with a bad hand and the opponent knowing you have a bad hand.

 

For your analogy to work there must be an advantage. What advantage did he win that he not already had. 

This is the area that the EU stated they got a concession on what the reports failed to mention is before the UK gave a concession the EU gave a concession

Level playing field

Reports from Brussels suggested the EU was close to backing down on its insistence that it should have the right to impose “lightning tariffs” on UK goods the instant it believes a breach of a deal has been committed.

The EU has until now said it should be able to do this before any alleged breaches have gone through an arbitration process. Britain has always insisted that retaliatory tariffs can only be imposed as a result of a ruling from an independent arbitration body.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/15/brexit-talks-extended-key-points-latest-news/

[robblok]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

This is the area that the EU stated they got a concession on what the reports failed to mention is before the UK gave a concession the EU gave a concession

Level playing field

Reports from Brussels suggested the EU was close to backing down on its insistence that it should have the right to impose “lightning tariffs” on UK goods the instant it believes a breach of a deal has been committed.

The EU has until now said it should be able to do this before any alleged breaches have gone through an arbitration process. Britain has always insisted that retaliatory tariffs can only be imposed as a result of a ruling from an independent arbitration body.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/15/brexit-talks-extended-key-points-latest-news/

I am sorry can't read the article its paid for.

 

But did the EU give in or not on this point ? I can't read the full article here it only says the EU was close to backing down. Does not say anything about having backed down.

 

Personally I feel a independent arbitration body a good idea (if it works with backwards compensation for the whole period). So say 1 dec 2021 the UK breaks the rules and 4 aug 2025 the ruling is done then the extra tax has to be paid over the whole period. Otherwise such an arbitration could be used to have an unfair advantage. Using the time passed as an advantage. 

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am sorry can't read the article its paid for.

 

But did the EU give in or not on this point ? I can't read the full article here it only says the EU was close to backing down. Does not say anything about having backed down.

 

Personally I feel a independent arbitration body a good idea (if it works with backwards compensation for the whole period). So say 1 dec 2021 the UK breaks the rules and 4 aug 2025 the ruling is done then the extra tax has to be paid over the whole period. Otherwise such an arbitration could be used to have an unfair advantage. Using the time passed as an advantage. 

I think we will have to wait until the end of the meetings but if this report is correct it would appear both sides made concessions to get to this point

I would find it impossible to do business with someone where they could load extra tarrifs/charges without going through an independent arbitration body first

[katana]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

3 hours ago, david555 said:

Brexit trade deal possible within days after Johnson concession, says EU
Barnier says PM’s acceptance of need for ‘evolution clause’ as standards diverge has unlocked talks

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu

Daniel Boffey in Brussels and Jon Henley in Paris
Mon 14 Dec 2020 17.04 GMTFirst published on Mon 14 Dec 2020 11.54 GMT

A post-Brexit trade and security deal could be sealed as early as this week after Boris Johnson made a key concession at the weekend but the pathway to agreement remained “very narrow”, Michel Barnier told ambassadors and MEPs in Brussels.

 

The EU’s chief negotiator said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need to ensure that there was fair competition for British and European businesses as regulatory standards diverged over time had unlocked the talks despite difficult issues remaining.

 

“For the first time,” Barnier said, the UK government had “accepted a mechanism of unilateral measures”, such as tariffs, where there were “systemic divergences which distort trade and investment”. “But this mechanism needs to be credible, effective and quick,” he added. “We are working on this.”

Expand  

Seems BJ gave in his bluff was called and he folded. Its not good to try to bluff when the other side knows your not holding good cards. 

Seems there's some confusion as to what actually happened. Later on in the grauniad article you quote, it says:
"The suggestion that the UK had made a key concession riled officials in London, who hit out at what they described as “inaccurate briefings” by the Brussels negotiators.
'Talks remain difficult and we have not made significant progress in recent days, despite efforts by the UK side to bring energy and ideas to the process,' a UK government source said.
The inaccurate briefings from the EU side in recent days have made a difficult discussion even more challenging in the short period of time we have left.' "

[david555]

36 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am sorry can't read the article its paid for.

 

But did the EU give in or not on this point ? I can't read the full article here it only says the EU was close to backing down. Does not say anything about having backed down.

 

Personally I feel a independent arbitration body a good idea (if it works with backwards compensation for the whole period). So say 1 dec 2021 the UK breaks the rules and 4 aug 2025 the ruling is done then the extra tax has to be paid over the whole period. Otherwise such an arbitration could be used to have an unfair advantage. Using the time passed as an advantage. 

am sorry can't read the article its paid for.

 

here is it , 

telegraph.pdf

Edited December 15, 2020 by david555

[david555]

8 minutes ago, katana said:

Seems there's some confusion as to what actually happened. Later on in the grauniad article you quote, it says:
"The suggestion that the UK had made a key concession riled officials in London, who hit out at what they described as “inaccurate briefings” by the Brussels negotiators.
'Talks remain difficult and we have not made significant progress in recent days, despite efforts by the UK side to bring energy and ideas to the process,' a UK government source said.
The inaccurate briefings from the EU side in recent days have made a difficult discussion even more challenging in the short period of time we have left.' "

when i quote always Mod 's like me to put a  link concerning the article quoted ......as i may only quote 3 FIRST parts and title ....so maybe i could do same as you in future , as sometimes the devil is in the tale of article ????

[oldhippy]

9 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Doesnt work that way , the Boss will put a low quote in and get the contract .

Rich people will get their house bult cheaply and the workers receive less salary 

Cheap foreign labour is good for businesses and the rich , but it keeps the working class poor

So true!

John Lennon even composed a song that he dedicated to Bojo & Reesmug ( and the Hiso Tories in general).

WORKING CLASS HERO.

 

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Did you not read the news, he caved he did not walk like he said he would. Please keep up with the news so all 3 are true. He was adamant, I walk Sunday night if no deal is reached. Not only did he not walk he also gave in during negotiations. 

Throughout the entire process both sides have things and later back tracked. Remember when the EU said the WA is signed and sealed, and negotiations cannot be reopened? And then guess what - negotiations reopened! 

This is how the process works. Strong words from both sides followed by concessions on both sides. 

If the EU is in such a strong position and the UK has no cards, why are these negotiations continuing? Both sides will benefit if a deal is struck. 

 

You really need to take your EU blinkers off mate. 

[Hi from France]

quite balanced review of the situation for those who have a good attention span (podcast)

Quote

With talks ongoing between the EU and UK over the final Brexit trade deal, the clock is running down and the January deadline is looming. Daniel Boffey explains what is at stake.

https://pca.st/h7f7nc83

 

.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Hi from France

[bkkcanuck8]

Don't know why they are negotiating - Boris already told us the agreement was oven ready and a done deal years ago...

[Hi from France]

according to the podcast it's 97% done : for me we have a deal, it's - just - a matter of time but at this stage it won't fail.

 

Only Boris is really blocking and if there is a politician who can turn his coat ....

 

 

Interesting article in Politico : the UK wants to cherry pick on Erasmus

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-unlikely-to-participate-in-erasmus-post-brexit/

 

 

 

In or out of the EU, no associated country has cherry-picked Erasmus so far: the UK wants to keep the exchange component which brings so much to british universities (btw I was an Erasmus student) but wants a special deal to opt out of some research programmes

Quote

The European Union has rejected British demands for “pay-as-you-go” access to EU programmes, including a €100 billion research fund and the Erasmus student exchange scheme, and insisted the UK commits to paying for membership over seven years. 

 

Quote

Brussels told EU negotiators that payments for associate membership of the flagship initiatives, which include EU-led parts of the Copernicus satellite and research into nuclear fission and safety, must be for the full funding cycle of the programmes. 

 

Quote

The UK wants shorter, time limited commitments and to opt-out of parts of the programmes, which Michel Barnier has dismissed as “cherry-picking”. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/15/access-eus-100bn-research-fund-erasmus-student-exchange-risk/

 

 

 

so maybe no Erasmus: that would be a symbolic miss, and very bad for British Universities but not a deal-breaker

 

 

.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Hi from France

[JonnyF]

10 hours ago, robblok said:

I find it a bit strange you talk about undercutting prices on labor and finding that bad but when the EU sets it as a rule that you can't do that on EU level you seem to find it bad. Is that a split personality ?

Rob, I know you're a bit of a slow learner, we saw that when it took you 4 years to work out that the Junta didn't seize power from a democratically elected government for the benefit of all the poor Thai people.

 

So let me explain it for a final time. We don't want to follow EU rules. We want to make our own rules. It doesn't matter if EU rules are good rules or bad rules. We don't want to follow them. Please read this post 10 times and let me know if there are any questions. Good lad.