World in denial on climate action five years after Paris accord, says Thunberg

[soalbundy]

42 minutes ago, scammed said:

the less ice the merrier, nothing is going to be engulfed,

warmer will for the most part mean wetter and more flush fora, like the flora we got in thailand,

storms will become less violent, leaving more areas habitable

The last time this happened (before the arrival of the dinosaurs) the world (pangea) was turned into a desert, 90% of life went extinct and the oceans were too acidic to support life, it took the earth 10 million years to recover.

It started off as a 5 degree increase due to the 'Siberian traps' but due to methane being released from the ocean floor as a result this increased to a 15 degree rise ij temperature. Today methane is already being released from the tundra in Alaska and Siberia as the ground ice melts and methane has also been measured coming from the oceans, as a greenhouse gas it is 10 times more potent than Co2.

Edited December 12, 2020 by soalbundy

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Donga said:

 

Greta is correct about all the silly hypothetical targets, but she is guilty in encouraging the righteous naivety. Sweden has 50% hydro and 30% nuclear power. There is no country able to generate over 50% non hydro or thermal renewable energy. And yet all this focus on solar and wind as the righteous have no clue about the limitations due inherent intermittency. 

Battery storage is for minutes, not days. Righteous don't like fossil fuels, so gas is on the nose for most of them as is the obvious solution, nuclear - safest energy source per KwH by a country mile. Search it if in disbelief.

So what are the Europeans doing to meet their renewable targets? Burning US imported wood chips, the fastest growing energy source in Europe. Biomass fuel is now more used than solar and wind combined - because it's not intermittent.. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/4/18216045/renewable-energy-wood-pellets-biomass

Until the activists and the governments they influence get real about dealing with renewables limitations, protest about US wood chips and recognise nuclear energy as the way forward, they are pissing in the wind.

What's it like, living in the past?  Lithium storage batteries are good for up to 4 hours. And there are new technologies now that can do much longer term storage

 

Long Duration Breakthrough? Form Energy’s First Project Tries Pushing Storage to 150 Hours

Long Duration Breakthrough? Form Energy's First Project Tries Pushing Storage to 150 Hours | Greentech Media

The 5 Most Promising Long-Duration Storage Technologies Left Standing

The 5 Most Promising Long-Duration Storage Technologies Left Standing | Greentech Media

Climate emission killer: construction begins on world’s biggest liquid air battery
 This article is more than 5 months old
Exclusive: project will store renewable energy and reduce climate-heating emissions

Climate emission killer: construction begins on world’s biggest liquid air battery | Environment | The Guardian

 

I agree that biomass fuel should't be used. That said, it is being used to replace coal burning plants which are far worse. But what of it? There is huge investment now in unsubsidized wind energy and solar. The largest source of renewable energy by far in the UK is wind power.

"Wind power is the UK’s strongest source of renewable energy and made up 20% of the UK’s electricity following a series of major windfarm openings in recent years. Electricity from renewable biomass plants made up 12% of the energy system, while solar panels contributed 6%."

Renewable electricity overtakes fossil fuels in UK for first time | Business | The Guardian

 

 

 

 

[Donga]

42 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Maybe if by the "world" you mean the small circle of denialists. But in the real world, not so much.

Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels

Record clean energy investment outpaces gas and coal 2 to 1.

Wind and Solar Are Crushing Fossil Fuels - Bloomberg

 

 

Four year old article, before the limitations of solar and wind dawned and the Europeans have increased Russian gas supply and made US wood chips the fastest energy source - where's the outrage?

 

So until battery storage becomes real, what do we use if not living in a geothermal or hydro landscape? Why can't folk understand that a power resource, which is available less than 70% of the time, needs reliable back-up energy? Amazing.

Pls provide references to any of these large battery storage banks that will provide back-up power for days..

They are being used to stabilise  the grid from the surges created by renewables, which I love by the way. Got 20 solar panels and know their limitations.

You're talking small %s of renewables. 20% for wind eh - all the time? And when it's not windy? And the solar when its dark or rainy, what is the backup? In UK it's gas and nuclear which makes sense for the time being. Burning US imported wood chips does not at all and it's a disgrace. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/4/18216045/renewable-energy-wood-pellets-biomass

Edited December 12, 2020 by Donga

[placeholder]

51 minutes ago, scammed said:

the less ice the merrier, nothing is going to be engulfed,

warmer will for the most part mean wetter and more flush fora, like the flora we got in thailand,

storms will become less violent, leaving more areas habitable

Why bother with someone who just makes assertions but offers no evidence?

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, scammed said:

no, the imagined temp increase is based solely on guesses

if/any positive feedback comes into play.

the roman & medieval warm period was global,

and in the course of 25 years, from 1700 to 1725, temp increased 2 degree celsius in england, unprecedented and unmatched to this day, much to the relief of the brits

No evidence for globally coherent warm and cold periods over the preindustrial Common Era

No evidence for globally coherent warm and cold periods over the preindustrial Common Era | Nature

Modern Climate Change Is the Only Worldwide Warming Event of the Past 2,000 Years

New research finds that previous periods of warming and cooling driven by natural causes were regional shifts in temperature rather than global events

Modern Climate Change Is the Only Worldwide Warming Event of the Past 2,000 Years | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, scammed said:

imo, part of it is a commie thing, fabricating reasons to attack  businesses and industrialization,

but part of it is religious in nature,

(do note the reference to 'since the industrialization') invoking the theology of original sin and the need to repent, lest nature/god will avenge with purifying fire and flood

So much easier to spout opinions than to back them up with facts.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Disagree on the religious aspect. More political IMO.

 

59 minutes ago, scammed said:

so its consumerism that aches you, that is, capitalism.

would you prefer we are forced to live as peasants,

eeking out a living from the earth with muscle power ?

pol pot got it right, humans are oxes,

and should drag the plow 'out of own force', in the purest interpretation of karl marx, sod education

Mostly reductionist nonsense with a soupcon of non-comprehension of Marx.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to slam Marxist models of the economy but you manage to come up with one that is utterly false.

"Marxism is a political and economic way of organizing society, where the workers own the means of production. Socialism is a way of organizing a society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the proletariat. Marx proposed that this was the next necessary step in the progress of history."

Marxism - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edited December 12, 2020 by placeholder

[ivor bigun]

Dont worry when everyone is driving an expensive electric car in Britain ,or going without their gas boiler,or having to cycle to work etc etc ,and making no difference except in their pockets ,the rest of the world will do nothing .welcome to poorland.

[scammed]

22 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The last time this happened (before the arrival of the dinosaurs) the world (pangea) was turned into a desert, 90% of life went extinct and the oceans were too acidic to support life, it took the earth 10 million years to recover.

It started off as a 5 degree increase due to the 'Siberian traps' but due to methane being released from the ocean floor as a result this increased to a 15 degree rise ij temperature. Today methane is already being released from the tundra in Alaska and Siberia as the ground ice melts and methane has also been measured coming from the oceans, as a greenhouse gas it is 10 times more potent than Co2.

no, the last time this happened was the recovery of little ice age, and before that medieval warm period, and before that roman warm period, all after the dinosaurs

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, scammed said:

no, the 'victims' of the evil west are indeed fishing for a handout

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237318476_Open_letter_to_President_Mohamed_Nasheed_of_the_Maldives

Here's some info about Nils-Axel Mörner. the person who wrote that letter:

In 1995, Mörner gave several courses in dowsing at Stockholm University in the summer program, and also outside of the university.^[2][3] He claimed that dowsing could be used not only to find water, but also to discover Curry and Hartmann lines. When reported in the press, he received sharp criticism from the Swedish scientific community and the Swedish skepticism movement.^[4] Mörner persisted^[5] and the conflict escalated,^[6] leading to a formal ban from the president of the university to teach dowsing, citing the Law on Higher Education, until he could present scientific evidence for dowsing. I\

Nils-Axel Mörner - Wikipedia

It is to laugh.

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, Donga said:

 

Four year old article, before the limitations of solar and wind dawned and the Europeans have increased Russian gas supply and made US wood chips the fastest energy source - where's the outrage?

 

So until battery storage becomes real, what do we use if not living in a geothermal or hydro landscape? Why can't folk understand that a power resource, which is available less than 70% of the time, needs reliable back-up energy? Amazing.

Pls provide references to any of these large battery storage banks that will provide back-up power for days..

They are being used to stabilise  the grid from the surges created by renewables, which I love by the way. Got 20 solar panels and know their limitations.

You're talking small %s of renewables. 20% for wind eh - all the time? And when it's not windy? And the solar when its dark or rainy, what is the backup? In UK it's gas and nuclear which makes sense for the time being. Burning US imported wood chips does not at all and it's a disgrace. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/3/4/18216045/renewable-energy-wood-pellets-biomass

Please. Stop making things up.

Why global investments in renewable energy capacity increased in 2019

Why global investments in renewable energy capacity increased in 2019 (nsenergybusiness.com)

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

the less ice the merrier, nothing is going to be engulfed,

warmer will for the most part mean wetter and more flush fora, like the flora we got in thailand,

storms will become less violent, leaving more areas habitable

Sure, because the tropics won't get any warmer?

[OneMoreFarang]

What is the average age of the senior people in charge? I would say at least over 50. How long will they live? Maybe 30 years longer. When will the climate problems become real visible big problems? Later.

In a way it's just human nature. We care about what concerns us now or maybe a little later or maybe, if we really think long term, we think until the expected end of our lives. But who really thinks more into the future than that? I guess very few people.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Dont worry when everyone is driving an expensive electric car in Britain ,or going without their gas boiler,or having to cycle to work etc etc ,and making no difference except in their pockets ,the rest of the world will do nothing .welcome to poorland.

• Estimated electric vehicles in use in selected countries | Statista

 

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, scammed said:

no, the last time this happened was the recovery of little ice age, and before that medieval warm period, and before that roman warm period, all after the dinosaurs

Stop making things up. No one, not even proponents of the belief that the medieval or roman warm periods were global, believes that there was anything like a 15 degree rise in temperature.

[scammed]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Sure, because the tropics won't get any warmer?

the biggest change happens at the poles,

and that is why weather flukes will decrease

[scammed]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Here's some info about Nils-Axel Mörner. the person who wrote that letter:

In 1995, Mörner gave several courses in dowsing at Stockholm University in the summer program, and also outside of the university.^[2][3] He claimed that dowsing could be used not only to find water, but also to discover Curry and Hartmann lines. When reported in the press, he received sharp criticism from the Swedish scientific community and the Swedish skepticism movement.^[4] Mörner persisted^[5] and the conflict escalated,^[6] leading to a formal ban from the president of the university to teach dowsing, citing the Law on Higher Education, until he could present scientific evidence for dowsing. I\

Nils-Axel Mörner - Wikipedia

It is to laugh.

nils axel morner was chosen as the head of the sea level group for the first IPCC precisely because he was recognized as the worlds premiere expert on the topic,

they had a fallout when he wouldnt peddle their propaganda,

he didnt need to

[scammed]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Stop making things up. No one, not even proponents of the belief that the medieval or roman warm periods were global, believes that there was anything like a 15 degree rise in temperature.

what are you on about ? earth has seen a linear slow recovery since the bottom of little ice age, with the biggest anomaly being in the pre industrial 1700-1725 interval

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, scammed said:

nils axel morner was chosen as the head of the sea level group for the first IPCC precisely because he was recognized as the worlds premiere expert on the topic

You sure about that? I can't find any evidence that he was the head of anything at the IPCC.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, scammed said:

what are you on about ? earth has seen a linear slow recovery since the bottom of little ice age, with the biggest anomaly being in the pre industrial 1700-1725 interval

Just once, just once, link to a source that backs up your assertions. Just once.

[soalbundy]

20 minutes ago, scammed said:

no, the last time this happened was the recovery of little ice age, and before that medieval warm period, and before that roman warm period, all after the dinosaurs

Yes, but they were short lived although the little ice age caused by the disappearance of of sunspot activity (like now) caused hundreds of thousands of deaths due to crop failure and hence starvation, something that happens in third world countries today. The decrease in sunspot activity today gives us a 10 year respite which we should make use of. My post referred to cataclysmic events that started with hundreds of years of lava and gas release (not volcanic in nature) from the siberian steps, enough lava to cover the USA with 5 meters of lava, not a likely scenario today but with only 1,5 degrees of warming methane is being released today which is alarming.

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You omitted Africa.

 

The hypocrisy of the politicians on board with Greta is that they are, IMO, doing sod all about forest clearance where ever it is happening. That's one thing where they could actually make a difference, but don't- is that puzzling?

 

I heard that air travel has been omitted from the targets to reduce, and if that is true it is a scandal, IMO.

Greta should be celebrating the demise of air travel, though I fully expect her to be flying along with all the delegates to the next climate conference. Business learned to do it by VDO, and the climate people need to do that too, but I doubt they will- far more fun flying to a big party at taxpayer's expense.

If you did some research, you would find Thunberg rejects air travel and sailed over the Atlantic back and forth to attend the climate conference in support of that principle. But don't let that get in the way of your prejudices.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, but they were short lived although the little ice age caused by the disappearance of of sunspot activity (like now) caused hundreds of thousands of deaths due to crop failure and hence starvation, something that happens in third world countries today. The decrease in sunspot activity today gives us a 10 year respite which we should make use of. My post referred to cataclysmic events that started with hundreds of years of lava and gas release (not volcanic in nature) from the siberian steps, enough lava to cover the USA with 5 meters of lava, not a likely scenario today but with only 1,5 degrees of warming methane is being released today which is alarming.

Sunspot activity is at best weakly implicated in global warming. And whatever connection it may have had, its putative influence disappeared thanks to anthropogenic global warming. It is significant that solar activity is at its lowest point in a century yet global warming is accelerating.

 

"Many climate scientists agree that sunspots and solar wind could be playing a role in climate change, but the vast majority view it as very minimal and attribute Earth’s warming primarily to emissions from industrial activity—and they have thousands of peer-reviewed studies available to back up that claim."

The Role of Sunspots and Solar Winds in Climate Change - Scientific American

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, scammed said:

the less ice the merrier, nothing is going to be engulfed,

warmer will for the most part mean wetter and more flush fora, like the flora we got in thailand,

storms will become less violent, leaving more areas habitable

Miss out on thermodynamics class?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

The last time this happened (before the arrival of the dinosaurs) the world (pangea) was turned into a desert, 90% of life went extinct and the oceans were too acidic to support life, it took the earth 10 million years to recover.

It started off as a 5 degree increase due to the 'Siberian traps' but due to methane being released from the ocean floor as a result this increased to a 15 degree rise ij temperature. Today methane is already being released from the tundra in Alaska and Siberia as the ground ice melts and methane has also been measured coming from the oceans, as a greenhouse gas it is 10 times more potent than Co2.

Make that 100, unless it's a typo.

[scammed]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Just once, just once, link to a source that backs up your assertions. Just once.

https://imgur.com/a/DNMJ9ZP

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/

 

[scammed]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Miss out on thermodynamics class?

no but you did

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, but they were short lived although the little ice age caused by the disappearance of of sunspot activity (like now) caused hundreds of thousands of deaths due to crop failure and hence starvation, something that happens in third world countries today. The decrease in sunspot activity today gives us a 10 year respite which we should make use of. My post referred to cataclysmic events that started with hundreds of years of lava and gas release (not volcanic in nature) from the siberian steps, enough lava to cover the USA with 5 meters of lava, not a likely scenario today but with only 1,5 degrees of warming methane is being released today which is alarming.

And actually it wasn't caused by the disappearance of sunspot activity. It began well before the minimum and continued afterwards.

The Maunder minimum and the Little Ice Age: an update from recent reconstructions and climate simulations | Journal of Space Weather and Space Climate (swsc-journal.org)

[scammed]

14 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, but they were short lived although the little ice age caused by the disappearance of of sunspot activity (like now) caused hundreds of thousands of deaths due to crop failure and hence starvation, something that happens in third world countries today. The decrease in sunspot activity today gives us a 10 year respite which we should make use of. My post referred to cataclysmic events that started with hundreds of years of lava and gas release (not volcanic in nature) from the siberian steps, enough lava to cover the USA with 5 meters of lava, not a likely scenario today but with only 1,5 degrees of warming methane is being released today which is alarming.

no, it is not alarming

[placeholder]

Just now, scammed said:

https://imgur.com/a/DNMJ9ZP

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/

 

I got some news for you. I know that Brexiters tend to inflate the importance of the UK in world affairs. But even they don't inflate its geographical size. Central England is an even tinier fraction of the globe. Temperature records there say nothing useful about global temperatures. Try again.