Anti-vaxers. Nuts, or not ?

[Bender Rodriguez]

nobody here know about 

 

The Nuremberg Code aimed to protect human subjects from enduring the kind of cruelty and exploitation the prisoners endured at concentration camps. The 10 elements of the code are: Voluntary consent is essential.

 

forced vaccination by the pro vaxxers with no proven safety data is criminal

[KC 71]

3 hours ago, tifino said:

What's today's vaxx negative reaction victim count up to in your vicinities now as we speak?

Facts are better to follow than here say 

2 Nurses had an adverse reaction yesterday.

Apparently both had uncontrollable beard growth.

It was a very hairy situation indeed !

[VBF]

6 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Indeed, depending on your stance re the various measures that are enforced to address the covid-19 issue, you can be Pro-Measure, Anti-Measure or Pro-Choice.

- Re VAX > I am neither Pro nor Anti-Vax, but am definitely Pro-Choice allowing me to decide whether I take it or not (I will most certainly do not), but have no problem that other people opt to take it (I will do an effort to inform them about risks, but it is their body - their decision);

- ANTI Lock-down > Except in very specific cases and for very specific areas where it is obvious that authorities will not be able to cope with the amount of new real infections with symptoms (not an increase in 'cases' due to a dodgy PCR-test).  But absolutely NO province or nation-wide lock-down, as it is already proven from many studies by now that lock-downs do much more harm than good and it is telltale of authorities at their wits end to impose them.

- Re MASKS > Pro-choice allowing me to decide whether to wear one outdoors.  I have read enough about the subject to question their usefulness indoors, but I am not a fanatic and will wear one indoors when it is policy at that place (no need or desire to heighten the stress-level of those that believe in masking by provoking them and me not wearing them when it is policy).

I agree with all that - to be fair my post to which you replied, was a brief precis of my feelings on the matter - you have enlarged upon it by adding yours.

 

That agreement includes  your Pro-Choice stance on vaccines, despite the fact that we hold opposing opinions as to whether we will be vaccinated (I'm curious as to why you choose not to be vaccinated but that's another matter)

 

As regards lockdowns, you've hit the nail on the head, IMO, but sadly authorities the world over are at their wits ends; despite all the debates going on, this is still an unprecedented situation and we're all learning daily......at least I hope we are!

[robblok]

6 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

I thought we agreed to let the subject of mandatory covid-19 vaccination rest until there is clear evidence that such vaccination prevents the vaccinated one from still being infectuous and transmitting the virus to others. 

To your credit you stated that if that is the case then there would be no reason for making such vaccination mandatory and also forcing it on those that do not opt for it.  And that is the Pro-choice many are advocating, and are then branded as  loony anti-vaxxers who 'are in general a bit uneducated or strange'.  I resent and object to the term 'anti-vaxxer' as it implies that vaccinations should be forbidden, the same intolerant mindset as the pro-vaxxers who want to enforce it on everybody.

I agree if its proven that vaccinations don't help against transmissions then its stupid to restrict travel.  I am pro vaxxer i dont mind it people think i want to force it on people. The fact is I don't but if its proven it works and prevents transmissions then I feel that its the right of countries not to accept people from other countries who are not vaccinated. That is how it works now and has always worked. 

 

For the record not sure how you get your definition of anti vax, I doubt anyone would say an anti vaxer is someone who would not want others to take it. Anti Vaxers are just people who don't want to take it themselves. I feel its stupid but should be their right. As long as they realize their choice comes at a price and accept it and stop moaning about it.

 

You might resent it, but how can you find someone who is anti vaccination not strange given the countless lives that are saved because of vaccination. I get it that there are some vaccines that could have side effects, but over all vaccination is a good thing and if there were too many anti vaxers the world would go back to the dark ages. Also anti vaxers remind me of religious fanatics, scientific facts are just not good enough for them. 

 

How can anyone deny that vaccination is good, when its proven how many lives it saves. Anti vaxers want to risk it to go back to times when death rates among children was much much higher. Because that is what it ultimately means if a large enough group does not vaccinates. So if we get enough of those strange people who are immune for facts we get back to times when death rates were much higher. So I don't see why i would classify then as anything else then strange / uneducated. 

[Bender Rodriguez]

29 minutes ago, robblok said:

Also anti vaxers remind me of religious fanatics, scientific facts are just not good enough for them. 

 

This is the point where vaccination has become a religion, even against science.

 

If someone dares to think for themselves, sorry, scientists, that discover the adjuvants can/could create severe side effects like chronic diseases, auto immune reactions,  hyper immune reactions (cytokine storm), or even DEATH, it is easier, even the person is an MD, scientists,  to discredit the many years or decades they did research and expulse them from any further position in their medical field.

 

I don't blindly follow or believe what

 

- the government says (it is safe, it will all be over) about just anything

- big pharma companies doing their own safety studies, like Boeing and their 737 max

- cdc/fda get funded by big pharma

- cdc/fda are a revolving door for big pharma:  big shot from big pharma  becomes head of fda/cdc, approves medicine, vaccine x,y,z ,   gets it approved / forced onto the whole population, quits  cdc/fda,  goes back to big pharma, becomes (vice) CEO, get hundreds of thousands of FREE shares and sells them at will like some big executives already did  (one selling a million dollar worth PER WEEK since the pandemic)

- the many fake swine flu scares in the past

- the fact that EVERY BIG PHARMA COMPANY has been made to pay BILLIONS in damages for fraud, deception, etc...

https://www.google.com/search?q=EVERY+BIG+PHARMA+COMPANY+has+been+made+to+pay+BILLIONS+in+damages

 

- the fact Big Pharma cannot be sued for damages done by vaccines since 1986.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1RLNS_enTH684TH684&q=Big+Pharma+can't+be+sued+for+damages+done+by+vaccines+since+1986

 

- the fact that this is the only kind of product/company, that does not have to pay damages for a faulty product

 

If it was all that safe, they should at least get rid of the 1986 act, that protects end-user from suing for damages

 

GMO / glyphosate was safe, right, till MONSANTO was made to pay billions in damages ...

 

Tobacco was safe right, even MD's smoke a specific kind ...

 

For me, Big Pharma is using Tobacco science

 

maybe in 10,20,30 years, people will wake up and think, why did we inject healthy people, starting from birth, till they die (yearly flu shot)

 

Everybody believes and takes what they want, it should NEVER be forced.

 

If you believe your future covid19 vaccine will safe you, take it, and you will not get sick from the educated people that decided they don't want this toxic unproven chemical inside their body

Edited December 23, 2020 by Bender Rodriguez

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

 

This is the point where vaccination has become a religion, even against science.

 

If someone dares to think for themselves, sorry, scientists, that discover the adjuvants can/could create severe side effects like chronic diseases, auto immune reactions,  hyper immune reactions (cytokine storm), or even DEATH, it is easier, even the person is an MD, scientists,  to discredit the many years or decades they did research and expulse them from any further position in their medical field.

 

I don't blindly follow or believe what

 

- the government says (it is safe, it will all be over) about just anything

- big pharma companies doing their own safety studies, like Boeing and their 737 max

- cdc/fda get funded by big pharma

- cdc/fda are a revolving door for big pharma:  big shot from big pharma  becomes head of fda/cdc, approves medicine, vaccine x,y,z ,   gets it approved / forced onto the whole population, quits  cdc/fda,  goes back to big pharma, becomes (vice) CEO, get hundreds of thousands of FREE shares and sells them at will like some big executives already did  (one selling a million dollar worth PER WEEK since the pandemic)

- the many fake swine flu scares in the past

- the fact that EVERY BIG PHARMA COMPANY has been made to pay BILLIONS in damages for fraud, deception, etc...

https://www.google.com/search?q=EVERY+BIG+PHARMA+COMPANY+has+been+made+to+pay+BILLIONS+in+damages

 

- the fact Big Pharma cannot be sued for damages done by vaccines since 1986.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1RLNS_enTH684TH684&q=Big+Pharma+can't+be+sued+for+damages+done+by+vaccines+since+1986

 

- the fact that this is the only kind of product/company, that does not have to pay damages for a faulty product

 

If it was all that safe, they should at least get rid of the 1986 act, that protects end-user from suing for damages

 

GMO / glyphosate was safe, right, till MONSANTO was made to pay billions in damages ...

 

Tobacco was safe right, even MD's smoke a specific kind ...

 

For me, Big Pharma is using Tobacco science

 

maybe in 10,20,30 years, people will wake up and think, why did we inject healthy people, starting from birth, till they die (yearly flu shot)

 

Everybody believes and takes what they want, it should NEVER be forced.

 

If you believe your future covid19 vaccine will safe you, take it, and you will not get sick from the educated people that decided they don't want this toxic unproven chemical inside their body

Lets put it this way in terms you might understand. The whole scientific world is watching this vaccine. They all want to have the best vaccine and their competitors to fail. So there are so many eyes on this that its impossible to cover up any mistakes. The people looking at it don't all want it to work so if there is a mistake it will be found.

 

What your doing is connecting all kinds of scandals and making it look like a big conspiracy. That is what people do who have no facts. You do know how many lives have been saved by the whole vaccination programs. That is millions. That is what your disputing.  Makes no sense but then again not much of your post does.

[evadgib]

HMG rebuttal to MSM scaremongering by the New York Times:

Response to article published by the New York Times on UK government procurement

Quote

Response to article published on 17th December.

Happy for this to be moved if there's a better place for it.

[robblok]

10 hours ago, evadgib said:

HMG rebuttal to MSM scaremongering by the New York Times:

Response to article published by the New York Times on UK government procurement

Happy for this to be moved if there's a better place for it.

Nice though some of the rebuttals are a bit weak. Especially the one that says that having people in their company that have worked for government is not an advantage. I know from experience that those people are hired for their contacts in government. So to act like it does not work that way in the UK is utter tosh (like the Brits would say)

 

They are right to use the excuse that because of speed they did not always get the best contracts. (some of it was unintentional some of it to cover up croneyism). I don't think it was much different in my country.

 

I doubt there is large scale fraud but there certainly are companies with contacts that have an edge. Its the same the world over.

[Virt]

I find it a bit selfish to refuse to get a shot.

Anti vaxers are not helping solving this pandemic.

 

It's understandable that some are afraid of the side effects, but look at the results so far from more than a million vaccinated.

More than a million has been vaccinated and no deaths and only a few severe allergic reactions, where all recovered from it.

 

How many would die WITH covid 19 if that same million were infected with covid 19?

If we use Denmarks statistics from covid 19 and scale up it's about 6500 deaths pr million infected.

6500 deaths pr million infected !!!

 

It's a no brainer why we all should get a shot as soon as possible.

 

[simon43]

8 hours ago, Virt said:

...

It's a no brainer why we all should get a shot as soon as possible.

 

 

Just think back to your days as a young child.  Were there any anti-vaxxers claiming that you shouldn't have your tetanus, polio, TB shots etc?  I don't recall anyone ever suggesting such a crazy idea when it was well-documented that vaccinations against diseases such as polio were hugely effective.

 

To reply to the title of this post - NUTS!!

[Drew3223]

Anti-vaxers are idiots. Vaccines are one of the greatest inventions of modern medicine. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Drew3223

[BritManToo]

On 12/25/2020 at 5:32 AM, simon43 said:

 

Just think back to your days as a young child.  Were there any anti-vaxxers claiming that you shouldn't have your tetanus, polio, TB shots etc?  I don't recall anyone ever suggesting such a crazy idea when it was well-documented that vaccinations against diseases such as polio were hugely effective.

 

To reply to the title of this post - NUTS!!

Thinking back to when I was young.

Polio, TB, Tetanus, Smallpox was about it, I  only had Polio and Tetanus,  and polio is no longer relevant to  the modern western world,  and I'm not sure smallpox is relevant either. I  also had cholera vaccine as an adult along with my former wife before we holidayed in Africa 1974 ...... she passed out after  the vaccination, and was ill for  a week, that was my last vaccination.

 

So 2-3  vaccines then vs 5-10-72(?) vaccines now ......... and you can't see a problem?

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[polpott]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Thinking back to when I was young.

Polio, TB, Tetanus, Smallpox was about it, I  only had Polio and Tetanus,  and polio is no longer relevant to  the modern western world.

 

So 2  vaccines then vs 72(?) vaccines now ......... and you can't see a problem?

 

I can see a problem. The "72 vaccines" is complete BS. No one has had 72 vaccines.

[BritManToo]

30 minutes ago, polpott said:

I can see a problem. The "72 vaccines" is complete BS. No one has had 72 vaccines.

Sorry, I haven't been vaccinated since 1974, but  have managed to survive since then, please feel free to correct the 72 i copied from another person's post to  any number you (as  a pro- vaxxer) seems right. Please count MMR as three, and  flu as +1  for every year you had it.

I see you're supposed to have MMR 2x by age 18 so that's 6 vaccinations  to  start you off.

Edited December 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[mtls2005]

21 minutes ago, polpott said:

I can see a problem. The "72 vaccines" is complete BS. No one has had 72 vaccines.

Yeah 72, even if counted as doses seems like a lot, unless you factor in a 72 year old person who's been getting annual flu vaccinations?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html

 

 

That said, you can't reason with kooks, just like you can't reason with cultists or religious zealots. Just ignore them, and try to minimize the damage thay cause for others. They seem intent on pushing their beliefs on others, perhaps to reinforce their own ignorance, doubt and fear? I applaud their decision to forego vaccines. I mean, we need a control group, right.

 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

Every single person that received the first smallpox vaccine is now dead. A 100% mortality rate.

 

 

It was administered in 1796

 

 

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

so to be clear,  big pharma did not get sued for corruption, fraud, deception, ever, recently, right ?

 

it is every single one of them

 

the big fines they pay, is the cost of doing business

 

if you make 50$ BILLION and pay 1$ BILLION in fines, that is still a super great return

 

but we should all blindly trust they work for our best interest and they could never do anything that could harm

 

and in case of vaccines : they are not liable, since 1986, that is also conspiracy theory ?

[robblok]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Thinking back to when I was young.

Polio, TB, Tetanus, Smallpox was about it, I  only had Polio and Tetanus,  and polio is no longer relevant to  the modern western world,  and I'm not sure smallpox is relevant either. I  also had cholera vaccine as an adult along with my former wife before we holidayed in Africa 1974 ...... she passed out after  the vaccination, and was ill for  a week, that was my last vaccination.

 

So 2-3  vaccines then vs 5-10-72(?) vaccines now ......... and you can't see a problem?

 

The problem with saying that things are no longer relevant is that you discount immigration. Measles and other stuff was killed off before crazy anti vaxers and religious nuts combined with immigration from countries where the disease was still available made a comeback. Many diseases are making a comeback because of anti vaxers and religious nuts plus immigration.

 

 

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

so to be clear,  big pharma did not get sued for corruption, fraud, deception, ever, recently, right ?

 

it is every single one of them

 

the big fines they pay, is the cost of doing business

 

if you make 50$ BILLION and pay 1$ BILLION in fines, that is still a super great return

 

but we should all blindly trust they work for our best interest and they could never do anything that could harm

 

and in case of vaccines : they are not liable, since 1986, that is also conspiracy theory ?

You are mixing up the US and rest of the world. In the EU you can sue against vaccines. There are cases that are won. So could you please be a bit more accurate. Tinfoil hat people are boring.

 

I am not sure what kind of job you had but its impossible to not make mistakes. Also there will always be people that respond badly to some medicines. That is totally normal some people respond bad to anti biotics. Lets not use them either for anti vaxers. Hell lets prevent anti vaxers from using medical items at all. Because after all its big pharma making money.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

The problem with saying that things are no longer relevant is that you discount immigration. Measles and other stuff was killed off before crazy anti vaxers and religious nuts combined with immigration from countries where the disease was still available made a comeback. Many diseases are making a comeback because of anti vaxers and religious nuts plus immigration.

nearly everyone  in my school had Measles in the 1960s (around 2,500 kids), none of them died from it.

Please, some of us, over age 60, lived and survived without most  modern vaccines.

 

Maybe you should take the time to read which diseases are significant killers and what conditions those diseases thrive in. 

What kills starving children with little or no sanitation or clean water, rarely kills those living in modern society.

 

I'm not an anti--vaxxer, you are  free to inject yourself with anything you want, and my best wishes.

just like me choosing not to worship Christ does not make me anti-Christian, etc.

it's called freedom of choice, I choose my beliefs without denigrating your beliefs.

Edited December 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

I have had the Hep B vaccine 4 times. That's 4 doses of 1 vaccine.

Are you completely confident no changes were made to  the vaccine/preservatives/additives/formulae between the 4 doses?

When I  get my regular medication from the  hospital, the packaging (and manufacturer) seem to be different every time.

Edited December 26, 2020 by BritManToo

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Are you completely confident no changes were made to  the vaccine between the 4 doses?

When I  get my regular medication from the  hospital, the packaging (and manufacturer) seem to be different every time.

Yep. Only one Hep B vaccine given at my local clap clinic in the UK.

 

Also just because the manufacturer/packaging of your medication is different, its highly unlikely the medication differs. How many ways of packaging/ manufacturers of paracetamol have you seen? They're all pharmacologically the same.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by polpott

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Why are you so eager to downplay the number of vaccine jabs those under 18 are now considered to need in order to keep them healthy?

Because, in the UK at least, its nonsense. 

 

https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/uk-schedule

 

Those vaccines will save many thousands of lives in the UK and kill no one.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

nearly everyone  in my school had Measles in the 1960s (around 2,500 kids), none of them died from it.

Please, some of us, over age 60, lived and survived without most  modern vaccines.

 

Maybe you should take the time to read which diseases are significant killers and what conditions those diseases thrive in. 

What kills starving children with little or no sanitation or clean water, rarely kills those living in modern society.

 

I'm not an anti--vaxxer, you are  free to inject yourself with anything you want, and my best wishes.

just like me choosing not to worship Christ does not make me anti-Christian, etc.

it's called freedom of choice, I choose my beliefs without denigrating your beliefs.

That is not how vaccination works and you know it. No need to deneigrate your beliefs because your a bright guy. You know vaccination only works if a certain number of people vaccinate.

 

Its saves a couple of million lives each year so id say it works. Maybe you should read more about the side effects of for instance measles vaccin vs getting the measles. Do your own research and see that inoculation works. Measles usually is harmless but a few die from it 0.2% not much but if a vaccine can prevent that why not. 

 

Last time we had an outbreak of measles in the Netherlands 2 people died from it (religious anti vax nuts) so no big loss. But the problem is that if too many don't vaccinate it will come back.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Are you completely confident no changes were made to  the vaccine/preservatives/additives/formulae between the 4 doses?

When I  get my regular medication from the  hospital, the packaging (and manufacturer) seem to be different every time.

Of course one can be confident of that. I expected more of you cause your arguments are B.S.

 

Vaccines are bough on country or even bigger scale. It remains the same. Unlike your medicine it does not have many alternatives or manufacturers. 

[Bender Rodriguez]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe you should take the time to read which diseases are significant killers and what conditions those diseases thrive in. 

What kills starving children with little or no sanitation or clean water, rarely kills those living in modern society.

 

at least one other people here know their stuff !!!

 

vaccines don't feed the poor dying children

 

clean water, clean food, sanitation

 

as taking a <deleted> in the street/people dying in the street was part of the problem in Europe for most of the diseases during the centuries

 

[robblok]

@BritManToo

 

Measles not as harmless as you might think. So 1 in 5000 so as long as less people die from the vaccine itself it seems a safe bet. I have looked but could not find a death attributed to the vaccine. There might be but I have looked (maybe not good enough).

 

Point is the vaccine is proven safe why not take it. (it was discredited by anti vaxers who faked a study but later had to retract their fake claims). There might be side effects but seems far less of a problem then the problems that can occur from the measles. 

 

I took this disease as an example not because its a killer but because it was well known. I would say polio vaccine is more worth it but still as long as the risk of side effects is low why not vaccinate. 

 

The only reason can be because now its almost removed from our countries. However it made a comback in the Netherlands in the Bible Belt. Because they don't vaccinate there. Imported cases from immigrants who then infect the non vaccinated people. Just imagine if more people would not take it. Then it would spread quite fast again. Only reason people are safe is because of vaccinated people. Yet lots of people want a free ride (anti vaxers or pro choicers)

 

Below some info on the measles.

 

 

What are the symptoms?

Measles usually starts with cold-like symptoms, red eyes and sensitivity to light, a high temperature, and greyish-white spots in the mouth and throat. A red-brown rash usually appears a few days later, spreading from behind the ears to the rest of the body.

A child with measles will have to spend about five days in bed and could miss two weeks of school. Even in developed countries such as the UK, around one in every 15 children with measles will develop more serious complications. These can include:

• ear infection (otitis media) in about 8% of measles cases (about 1 in 12 people)
• pneumonia in up to 6% of measles cases (up to 1 in 16 people)
• diarrhoea in about 8% of measles cases (about 1 in 12 people)
• encephalitis (inflammation of the brain): 1 case for every 1000-2000 cases of measles. Encephalitis can lead to brain damage.

In countries like the UK, measles causes death in about 1 in 5000 cases. See Roald Dahl's account of the death of his daughter Olivia from measles encephalitis in 1962.

 

https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/measles

 

Side effects from the vaccine

Side effects of MMR and MMRV vaccines

The combined MMR and MMRV vaccines are effective and safe, but all medications can have unwanted side effects. 

Common side effects following immunisation are usually mild and temporary (occurring in the first few days after vaccination). Specific treatment is not usually required.

Side effects from MMR and MMRV vaccines that can occur seven to 10 days after vaccination include: 

• fever (can be more than 39.4 °C), lasting two to three days
• faint red rash (not infectious)
• head cold, runny nose, cough or puffy eyes
• drowsiness or tiredness
• swelling of salivary glands
• localised pain, redness and swelling at the injection site.

 

Uncommon and rare side effects

Uncommon or rare side effects of the MMR and MMRV vaccines include:  

• fever causing seizure (febrile convulsions) – occurs in about 1 out of 3,000 young children vaccinated
• temporary pain and stiffness in the joints – this is rare in young children, but more common in people immunised during their teenage years or as adult women 
• temporary low platelet count, causing bleeding or bruising – may occur after the first dose of MMR vaccine in about one out of 20,000 to 30,000 vaccinations.

Serious allergic reaction is a very rare side effect, occurring in less than one out of a million vaccinations.

Serious allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any vaccine rarely occurs. This is why you are advised to stay at the clinic or medical surgery for at least 15 minutes following vaccination, in case further treatment is required. 

Another rare side effect is thrombocytopenia, which is bleeding caused by insufficient blood platelets.

If any other reactions are severe and persistent, or if you are worried, contact your doctor for further information. 

 

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/measles-mumps-rubella-varicella-chickenpox-immunisation

 

 

Seems the side effects are less then what can happen if you get the measles i dont see death mentioned here while in 1 to 5000 cases in the UK measles led to death.

 

 

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

I would say polio vaccine is more worth it but still as long as the risk of side effects is low why not vaccinate. 

How is polio  spread?

https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/poliomyelitis/fact_sheet.htm

'Polio is spread when the stool of an infected person is introduced into the mouth of another person through contaminated water or food (fecal-oral transmission). Oral-oral transmission by way of an infected person's saliva may account for some cases.'

 

Not really something to worry about in the modern  world imho.

[polpott]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

How is polio  spread?

https://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/poliomyelitis/fact_sheet.htm

'Polio is spread when the stool of an infected person is introduced into the mouth of another person through contaminated water or food (fecal-oral transmission). Oral-oral transmission by way of an infected person's saliva may account for some cases.'

 

Not really something to worry about in the modern  world imho.

How is salmonella spread? Same way. There are a number of bacterial diseases spread this way but they haven't been eradicated from modern society.

[VBF]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

<snip>

Last time we had an outbreak of measles in the Netherlands 2 people died from it (religious anti vax nuts) so no big loss. But the problem is that if too many don't vaccinate it will come back.

Mainly agreeing with your recent posts except that last sentence because even in that scenario of "too many not being vaccinated", those who HAVE been vaccinated will still be protected.